| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| novaes |
Posted - 22 Dec 2020 : 13:11:56
Dear sages, I would like to know if it is possible to create (in terms of rules) unusual awakened items such as the Apparatus of Kwalish and the Infernal War Machines.
Also, could you give me examples of items like that (in terms of canonical lore) in the Realms?
Thank you very muc |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Dec 2020 : 11:29:03
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
The only problem with 3rd party material is there's just so much of it. I have pretty much everything from Kobold Press/Midgard setting (they're kind of the gold standard to me, IMO).
Same here! I've gotten a lot of the KP stuff, myself.
I've also gotten at least a couple Frog God Games products.
I mostly stick with Kobold Press, though I'll happily look at just about any book of monsters. |
| novaes |
Posted - 24 Dec 2020 : 10:21:14
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
The only problem with 3rd party material is there's just so much of it. I have pretty much everything from Kobold Press/Midgard setting (they're kind of the gold standard to me, IMO). I also have the Grim Hollow campaign book...excellent stuff there for a darker campaign world, Seeds of Wars is excellent if you want kingdom management (it's very close to the old Birthright rules but without bloodline powers), etc.
You don't have to incorporate anything whole cloth, just pick and choose what you like, alter it to your tastes and run with it. WotC/5e is fairly 'rules-light/simple' (which is why I think it's so popular) so they aren't likely to put out much in the way of 'how' to create awakened items. You'll have to do it yourself or mine 3rd party material for ideas.
I also have it, but in pdf in English.
There are projects to take Kobold Press and Sandy Petersen products to Brazil, and then I will have them in physical version and in my native language.
I already have the Tome of Beasts I in Portuguese in the physical version. And it's really, really good. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 24 Dec 2020 : 03:02:27
Master Arcanamach,
No lie there. I have found a need to narrow my selection of 3rd party material to just a couple that I have had enough experience with to know what I am getting so I can get a feel for how it will impact my game. The amount of 3rd party material out in the gaming universe is staggering!
I love Frog God Games/Necromancer Games/Sword & Sorcery. Great stuff.
Best regards,
|
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 24 Dec 2020 : 01:14:29
The only problem with 3rd party material is there's just so much of it. I have pretty much everything from Kobold Press/Midgard setting (they're kind of the gold standard to me, IMO). I also have the Grim Hollow campaign book...excellent stuff there for a darker campaign world, Seeds of Wars is excellent if you want kingdom management (it's very close to the old Birthright rules but without bloodline powers), etc.
You don't have to incorporate anything whole cloth, just pick and choose what you like, alter it to your tastes and run with it. WotC/5e is fairly 'rules-light/simple' (which is why I think it's so popular) so they aren't likely to put out much in the way of 'how' to create awakened items. You'll have to do it yourself or mine 3rd party material for ideas. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 24 Dec 2020 : 00:33:22
quote:
Originally posted by novaes
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by novaes
Third party products on my desk are viewed as coming from a separate multiverse, so various configurations from other companies like the Kobold Press scenario, among others and their peculiarities of items or creatures of any edition, are welcome but only as adventures with short duration, we don't usually accept that it influences the standard universe of our campaigns (such as using certain third party spells in FR).
It's your campaign, and no one can say you're wrong... And I, too, once entirely ignored third-party material.
That said, I'm a lot more enthusiastic about it now, and I realize there's some really good stuff out there -- some of which is far better than anything WotC has thought about doing. So I would encourage you to reconsider the potential of third-party stuff -- even if you don't incorporate much of it, there's still a lot of good stuff to look at, and it's something you can readily surprise even the most well-read player with.
I like third party materials, but I don't like to mix it with the official D&D stuff.
As I mentioned above, I even like to do a crossover between third party scenarios and the official scenarios, allowing players to travel between them and npcs too, to enrich the lore of the campaign. But I am careful not to mix too much, as I try to keep the essence of each one intact as far as possible.
That said, I really appreciate a lot of third-party products, like Tome of Beats and Arcana of the Ancients. The more RPG material the better.
Yeah, I agree on Tome of Beasts. That's a pretty good third party for 5e product. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 23 Dec 2020 : 22:04:26
Acolyte novaes,
I utilize the material from here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm, and then I apply randomly considered, and fleshed out specifics that are related to a deity (relic) or an arcane item (artifact), or something important that relates to a person's soul, or experiences (sentient, magical item).
Often the kinds of items you are talking about have very unique stories and should be quite impactful, and thus, as non-templated as you can get them.
My 2 coppers. ;)
Best regards,
|
| novaes |
Posted - 23 Dec 2020 : 18:56:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by novaes
Third party products on my desk are viewed as coming from a separate multiverse, so various configurations from other companies like the Kobold Press scenario, among others and their peculiarities of items or creatures of any edition, are welcome but only as adventures with short duration, we don't usually accept that it influences the standard universe of our campaigns (such as using certain third party spells in FR).
It's your campaign, and no one can say you're wrong... And I, too, once entirely ignored third-party material.
That said, I'm a lot more enthusiastic about it now, and I realize there's some really good stuff out there -- some of which is far better than anything WotC has thought about doing. So I would encourage you to reconsider the potential of third-party stuff -- even if you don't incorporate much of it, there's still a lot of good stuff to look at, and it's something you can readily surprise even the most well-read player with.
I like third party materials, but I don't like to mix it with the official D&D stuff.
As I mentioned above, I even like to do a crossover between third party scenarios and the official scenarios, allowing players to travel between them and npcs too, to enrich the lore of the campaign. But I am careful not to mix too much, as I try to keep the essence of each one intact as far as possible.
That said, I really appreciate a lot of third-party products, like Tome of Beats and Arcana of the Ancients. The more RPG material the better. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Dec 2020 : 18:46:16
quote:
Originally posted by novaes
Third party products on my desk are viewed as coming from a separate multiverse, so various configurations from other companies like the Kobold Press scenario, among others and their peculiarities of items or creatures of any edition, are welcome but only as adventures with short duration, we don't usually accept that it influences the standard universe of our campaigns (such as using certain third party spells in FR).
It's your campaign, and no one can say you're wrong... And I, too, once entirely ignored third-party material.
That said, I'm a lot more enthusiastic about it now, and I realize there's some really good stuff out there -- some of which is far better than anything WotC has thought about doing. So I would encourage you to reconsider the potential of third-party stuff -- even if you don't incorporate much of it, there's still a lot of good stuff to look at, and it's something you can readily surprise even the most well-read player with. |
| novaes |
Posted - 23 Dec 2020 : 16:19:22
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
by the way, you'd have to adapt this, but for 3.5e there was a third party book that actually developed better rules to use for intelligent magic items. You actually leveled them up and had "feats" for the items that mimicked the standard intelligent item abilities (for instance, an item gaining new languages, the ability to hear, blindsight, the ability to levitate, fly, or fight, having a goal, apply specific metamagic effects to spells it can cast, attempt to control its wielder, interact with objects via telekinetic like power, etc...). There was a specific "class" that you leveled up the magic item using, but you could even multiclass the magical item (this was presented as a variant idea, with the need for an item to speak to use verbal components and have telekinetic ability for somatic, plus having the appropriate spell components available). The book was "The Book of Eldritch Might III: The Nexus" and the chapter this stuff is in is chapter 3: Vabrin's Forge. It wouldn't take much to adapt this to 5e rulesets AND even add further options to it. I could see the lack of a need for material components for instance if the item itself were a spellcasting focus (crystal ball, spellbook, staff, wand, ring, crystal, etc...) and the item were leveled up in some spellcasting class. Similarly, having a magical dagger that's leveled up as a rogue to have sneak attack or a sword that's leveled as a fighter to be a defender of its wielder
There was also a WotC book that I can't recall the name of, but it introduced somewhat similar, but less versatile rules for having legendary items that a character would "unlock" the power of and slowly open up options. Both are valid rulesets, bur the previous one I mentioned opens up a LOT more options (and consequently more chance of abuse too, so I'd definitely make the item an NPC in control of the DM).
Ah I want something much simpler, I just want these objects that I mentioned to be sentient. I'm not too concerned with balancing.
I was just wondering if the 5e rules support for that.
I am still checking a good way to fit these sentient "machines" into the history of my table.
Thank you very much for the tips however, I will certainly use them for future projects.
Third party products on my desk are viewed as coming from a separate multiverse, so various configurations from other companies like the Kobold Press scenario, among others and their peculiarities of items or creatures of any edition, are welcome but only as adventures with short duration, we don't usually accept that it influences the standard universe of our campaigns (such as using certain third party spells in FR). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 23 Dec 2020 : 15:59:05
by the way, you'd have to adapt this, but for 3.5e there was a third party book that actually developed better rules to use for intelligent magic items. You actually leveled them up and had "feats" for the items that mimicked the standard intelligent item abilities (for instance, an item gaining new languages, the ability to hear, blindsight, the ability to levitate, fly, or fight, having a goal, apply specific metamagic effects to spells it can cast, attempt to control its wielder, interact with objects via telekinetic like power, etc...). There was a specific "class" that you leveled up the magic item using, but you could even multiclass the magical item (this was presented as a variant idea, with the need for an item to speak to use verbal components and have telekinetic ability for somatic, plus having the appropriate spell components available). The book was "The Book of Eldritch Might III: The Nexus" and the chapter this stuff is in is chapter 3: Vabrin's Forge. It wouldn't take much to adapt this to 5e rulesets AND even add further options to it. I could see the lack of a need for material components for instance if the item itself were a spellcasting focus (crystal ball, spellbook, staff, wand, ring, crystal, etc...) and the item were leveled up in some spellcasting class. Similarly, having a magical dagger that's leveled up as a rogue to have sneak attack or a sword that's leveled as a fighter to be a defender of its wielder
There was also a WotC book that I can't recall the name of, but it introduced somewhat similar, but less versatile rules for having legendary items that a character would "unlock" the power of and slowly open up options. Both are valid rulesets, bur the previous one I mentioned opens up a LOT more options (and consequently more chance of abuse too, so I'd definitely make the item an NPC in control of the DM).
|
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 22 Dec 2020 : 21:06:59
If there can be intelligent swords, you could just use the rules for those. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Dec 2020 : 20:06:44
quote:
Originally posted by novaes
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
In terms of items, it would be more appropriate to call them "intelligent magic items", because that's what they are. Not saying that calling them awakened is wrong, its just that typically awaken is reserved for a creature such as an animal. However, there have been "awakened constructs" via a spell back in 3.5e if I recall correctly, in which a construct gains basically more free will and intelligence than the norm. In addition, there are known to be some constructs (such as helmed horrors) that can gain their own free will. Nimblewrights have been known to gain free will in some adventures too I believe. There's also been awakened undead (such as skeletons and zombies) via spell. But again, a construct or undead is "treated" as a "creature" and that's why people tend to use the term awaken with it. It wouldn't be hard to picture someone taking an animated sword or animated suit of armor or even an animated mop and giving it some level of intelligence though. I've often been fascinated with the idea of an awakened spellbook (whether by taking on the characteristics of its creator or somehow becoming "possessed" of a personality).
Many thanks for the reply. But at 5e would it be possible to create the Intelligent Apparatus of Kwalish and the Infernal War Machines?
About the book with personality ... I think you will like Tasha's Cauldron.. xD
Yes, I did, though I will say I was first inspired with the idea by the awakened spellbook idea in deep magic by Kobold Press. |
| novaes |
Posted - 22 Dec 2020 : 19:20:34
quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
Yes, you can. Just do it.
Realmslore does not really have any example of "awakened intelligent sentient machines", other then some constructs that then become creatures. The Sardoir constructs are often bug/spider/crab shaped, so they count as close to an ' Apparatus of Kwalish '.
Plenty of Realms Golems are sentient.
thank you so much |
| bloodtide_the_red |
Posted - 22 Dec 2020 : 18:44:14
Yes, you can. Just do it.
Realmslore does not really have any example of "awakened intelligent sentient machines", other then some constructs that then become creatures. The Sardoir constructs are often bug/spider/crab shaped, so they count as close to an ' Apparatus of Kwalish '.
Plenty of Realms Golems are sentient. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 22 Dec 2020 : 14:58:34
Items of that order were called "artifacts" in 1E/2E. Or "relics" if their origins were divine instead of arcane.
Far more powerful than standard magic items. Intelligent, overwhelming, dangerously world-breaking (and game-breaking).
Beyond the normal scope of game and magic rules. And far beyond the ability of mortals to manufacture. |
| novaes |
Posted - 22 Dec 2020 : 14:52:07
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
In terms of items, it would be more appropriate to call them "intelligent magic items", because that's what they are. Not saying that calling them awakened is wrong, its just that typically awaken is reserved for a creature such as an animal. However, there have been "awakened constructs" via a spell back in 3.5e if I recall correctly, in which a construct gains basically more free will and intelligence than the norm. In addition, there are known to be some constructs (such as helmed horrors) that can gain their own free will. Nimblewrights have been known to gain free will in some adventures too I believe. There's also been awakened undead (such as skeletons and zombies) via spell. But again, a construct or undead is "treated" as a "creature" and that's why people tend to use the term awaken with it. It wouldn't be hard to picture someone taking an animated sword or animated suit of armor or even an animated mop and giving it some level of intelligence though. I've often been fascinated with the idea of an awakened spellbook (whether by taking on the characteristics of its creator or somehow becoming "possessed" of a personality).
Many thanks for the reply. But at 5e would it be possible to create the Intelligent Apparatus of Kwalish and the Infernal War Machines?
About the book with personality ... I think you will like Tasha's Cauldron.. xD |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Dec 2020 : 14:31:14
In terms of items, it would be more appropriate to call them "intelligent magic items", because that's what they are. Not saying that calling them awakened is wrong, its just that typically awaken is reserved for a creature such as an animal. However, there have been "awakened constructs" via a spell back in 3.5e if I recall correctly, in which a construct gains basically more free will and intelligence than the norm. In addition, there are known to be some constructs (such as helmed horrors) that can gain their own free will. Nimblewrights have been known to gain free will in some adventures too I believe. There's also been awakened undead (such as skeletons and zombies) via spell. But again, a construct or undead is "treated" as a "creature" and that's why people tend to use the term awaken with it. It wouldn't be hard to picture someone taking an animated sword or animated suit of armor or even an animated mop and giving it some level of intelligence though. I've often been fascinated with the idea of an awakened spellbook (whether by taking on the characteristics of its creator or somehow becoming "possessed" of a personality). |
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