| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Shawn Daniels |
Posted - 08 Apr 2020 : 14:13:42
I am writing research papers for the Realms. You could be reading them, so tell me, do you prefer or care about the old English way, Shakespearean, or would you prefer the papers presented in modern English for clarity’s sake? |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 20:24:45
True, but he's had plenty of time to learn other ways of speaking.
When I moved from Mississippi to California, I very quickly learned not to say "y'all" because of the way my classmates reacted. Within a month or two, I'd forced myself to stop using a lot of Southern-isms that I'd been using my entire life. (And then I moved to Florida and picked them all back up again)
So Elminster did learn speaking that way -- but if he's still doing it, it's because he's chosen to keep doing it. |
| Shawn Daniels |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 19:24:32
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shawn Daniels
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by lookatroopa
I'm not sure to what degree this checks out canonically, but I've kinda been going with the idea that Elminster's archaic language use is an affectation put on for the Earthly audience.
I think that's right. He does it with everyone to come across as the doddery old greybeard. Lad.
-- George Krashos
I disagree. I’m currently reading Elminster: Making of a Mage, and just about everyone in his village that we’re exposed to, and then Helm, speaks like that.
That was set about a thousand years ago. Language changes, over time.
True, and I am aware of that, just specifically pertaining to Elminster, he has proper reason for speaking that way. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 19:04:25
quote:
Originally posted by Shawn Daniels
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by lookatroopa
I'm not sure to what degree this checks out canonically, but I've kinda been going with the idea that Elminster's archaic language use is an affectation put on for the Earthly audience.
I think that's right. He does it with everyone to come across as the doddery old greybeard. Lad.
-- George Krashos
I disagree. I’m currently reading Elminster: Making of a Mage, and just about everyone in his village that we’re exposed to, and then Helm, speaks like that.
That was set about a thousand years ago. Language changes, over time. |
| Shawn Daniels |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 17:49:17
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by lookatroopa
I'm not sure to what degree this checks out canonically, but I've kinda been going with the idea that Elminster's archaic language use is an affectation put on for the Earthly audience.
I think that's right. He does it with everyone to come across as the doddery old greybeard. Lad.
-- George Krashos
I disagree. I’m currently reading Elminster: Making of a Mage, and just about everyone in his village that we’re exposed to, and then Helm, speaks like that. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 15:19:46
Every year, on Elminster's birthday, villains across the Realms send him books on basic Common and grammar. It was funny at first, but...
That's not to mention all the other elderly bearded wizards who are utterly sick of being asked why they don't talk "old-style like Elminster". |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 15:06:18
I always had it that by some complete accident the common tongue is exactly like English, and so auld common is like ye olde english (to my mind the multi verse is operating to a plan but that plan was broken by chaos - see the immortals handbook)
Elminster choosing to use auld common because it makes him appear elderly and befuddled is a good idea, even better that it sounds like olde english to us on earth |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 13:07:34
quote:
Originally posted by lookatroopa
I'm not sure to what degree this checks out canonically, but I've kinda been going with the idea that Elminster's archaic language use is an affectation put on for the Earthly audience.
I think that's right. He does it with everyone to come across as the doddery old greybeard. Lad.
-- George Krashos |
| lookatroopa |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 10:26:28
I'm not sure to what degree this checks out canonically, but I've kinda been going with the idea that Elminster's archaic language use is an affectation put on for the Earthly audience. |
| Shawn Daniels |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 05:17:02
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Nope, please. I'm not a native speaker, and I have problems with normal English sometimes. Now, imagine some obscure version of it...
A lot of people who do speak English as their native tongue still have problems with it. A lot of people don't put any effort into proper grammar, and there's also the fact that English is just weird. For every rule, there's an exception, and a lot of the exceptions seem to be "if it breaks the rule but still works, you're good."
I find this quote by James Nicoll says it best:
quote:
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary.
James Nicoll sounds like one funny motherfker. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 04:14:38
Didn't we have that one scribe who sounded suspiciously like a bot? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 03:38:01
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Nope, please. I'm not a native speaker, and I have problems with normal English sometimes. Now, imagine some obscure version of it...
A lot of people who do speak English as their native tongue still have problems with it. A lot of people don't put any effort into proper grammar, and there's also the fact that English is just weird. For every rule, there's an exception, and a lot of the exceptions seem to be "if it breaks the rule but still works, you're good."
I find this quote by James Nicoll says it best:
quote:
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary.
|
| keftiu |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 03:11:50
The Realms doesn’t take place in history - why should it sound like it? |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 02:38:19
Realmslore already has plenty of flavour dialect, using some creatively and a little sparingly adds immersion and entertainment value.
But I find longwinded elfy-poetic names/vocabularly and unreadably gutteral dwarven/orcish words to be a pain. I'm also quite unfond of rampantly overused "ye" instead of "you".
If you're writing for modern audiences then best to avoid falling into Gygaxian or High Gygaxian language modes, and easy trap if you read too many old Realms books. It's too "stuffy" to hold much interest unless you grew up with it as a second language. |
| Shawn Daniels |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 01:00:59
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
The number of people who actually speak like they have all of Shakespeare's plays stuffed down their throat in the Realms numbers in the single digits. If Larloch and Telamont don't talk like they're out of the 16th century, I don't see why research papers, of all things, should be written in an archaic dialect.
Or one that may not even exist in the Realms, since Karsus definitely didn't speak like he stepped out of a play.
Lol, I know, we just enjoy playing around with it around here, so I thought “why not offer” |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 00:58:51
The number of people who actually speak like they have all of Shakespeare's plays stuffed down their throat in the Realms numbers in the single digits. If Larloch and Telamont don't talk like they're out of the 16th century, I don't see why research papers, of all things, should be written in an archaic dialect.
Or one that may not even exist in the Realms, since Karsus definitely didn't speak like he stepped out of a play. |
| Shawn Daniels |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 00:27:20
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Nope, please. I'm not a native speaker, and I have problems with normal English sometimes. Now, imagine some obscure version of it...
Lol |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 00:26:23
Nope, please. I'm not a native speaker, and I have problems with normal English sometimes. Now, imagine some obscure version of it... |
| Shawn Daniels |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 00:10:06
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
While I admire Shakespeare, His era was the very beginning of Modern English. And to me is difficult to follow most times, mainly due to the usage of idioms and expressions of that that era. So, while I would prefer current English, if you can ACTUALLY WRITE IN OBSCURE SHAKESPEAREAN,then go right ahead.
Well, it IS about what you prefer, so...  |
| ElfBane |
Posted - 08 Apr 2020 : 23:20:16
While I admire Shakespeare, his era was the very beginning of Modern English. And to me is difficult to follow most times, mainly due to the usage of idioms and expressions of that era. So, while I would prefer current English, if you can ACTUALLY WRITE IN OBSCURE SHAKESPEAREAN, then go right ahead. |
