| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Quickleaf |
Posted - 21 Jan 2020 : 23:03:29
Are there any gods in the FR who were once good but fell to evil, or good gods who have evil heresies among their ranks?
I'm thinking things like the Harlot's Coin Heresy within Waukeen's temple mentioned in Dragon #355
Planning a campaign and want to detail a place called the Joss Desert (it's part of the demon lord Graz'zt's Abyssal realm). There are no official descriptions of it besides lamia pilgrims coming from there to visit Graz'zt's temple.
"Joss" has a couple meanings, including:
- A Chinese household divinity
- A heathen idol
- Luck (informal)
So I was imagining a desert full of ruined idols. Since Graz'zt is a seductive corrupting figure, it would make sense if these idols belonged to good gods fallen to evil or with evil heresies. |
| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 27 Jan 2020 : 01:39:32
Neither are gods, though. Malkizid was a solar, Adimarchus a planetar version of Dr Jekyll. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 27 Jan 2020 : 01:02:48
I can think of 2... The Solar Makizid, The Branded King, and Adimarchus, Demon Prince of Madness. Both Solars of tremendous power.
Hope this helps. If you want to know more about Malkizid.... read "The Last Mythal" trilogy. Circa 1374/ 1375 DR.
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| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 26 Jan 2020 : 22:27:19
-Selvetarm wasn't always evil. He wasn't ever explicitly mentioned as being good, but we know that he "rejected" the ways of his father (Vhaeraun) and eventually came to start embracing the way Eilistraee did things after coming into contact with her and respecting her. All that changed when Lolth basically tricked him into fighting Zanassu the Spider Demon and absorbing his power. All the evil from Zanassu went into Selvetarm and turned him into the crazy evil guy he is today. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 26 Jan 2020 : 21:49:42
Amaunator and At'ar being a cruelly spiteful split from the god, while Amon was trapped away in the place that vestiges go. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 26 Jan 2020 : 14:49:20
Considering that she is the list of active deities in the MToF, it's very likely that it's the case. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 26 Jan 2020 : 00:32:37
According to Ed, Sharess indeed returned to be Bast, but it seems that happened because she lost her popularity in the wider Realms, and her only significant cult is that of Bast in Mulhorand. It seems she was changed by the faith of her followers.
https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1128716987188875265?s=20
As for Zandilar, the most probably is that she returned to be her own self during the Second Sundering. It happened to Azuth, for instance.
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| Gyor |
Posted - 25 Jan 2020 : 23:34:30
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Sharess (who in the current era seems to be Bast again, since Zandilar has returned as an individual goddess) nearly fell to evil, but it was because of Shar's corruption, and then Sune managed to make her snap out of it.
There are Lolth, Vhaeraun and Selvetarm, and Tyche being corrupted by Moander, generating Tymora and Beshaba.
Shar and Selune have the Dark Moon Heresy, which implies that they're 2 sides of the same coin.
Not a goddess, but Grazz't's whispers might have contributed to bring Zariel to the dark side.
Nothing else that's really relevant comes to mind, though.
We don't know that Zandilar is separate from Sharess, it's not even mentioned and might only be a thing on FR, with say Zandilar's aspects in other Crystal Sphere's having never merged with Bast at all.
Or Sharess could be like the three in one Elven Goddess of Wisdom, Bast, Zandilar, and Felidae could be both independant and part of Sharess at the same time.
I will say both Bast in the PHB and Zandilar shared the shift to Chaotic Neutral in 5e, so who knows what Sharess'alignment is, although its suggests she is CN now for some unexplained reason.
Anyways Hoar was Neutral, became evil, and became Neutral again. Gilgeam was good once, a Hercules like figure, but eventually failures of Unther under his rule lead him to darkness and evil. And then he died. And then he lived again in a crazy world where Genasi's enslaved his people, only for him to return to Toril with his people on the verge of his victory over the Primordial Empire of Genasi.
Most of the Dark Seldarine where good or Neutral once, before all but one turned evil.
Garages might have been Neutral once until Tempus beat him at winning over worshippers, and he went off the deep end.
As a Mortal there was for a time a moment where Cyric was good, before they ruined his character and made him power, clever in a way, but stupid ultimately.
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| Baltas |
Posted - 25 Jan 2020 : 14:11:25
I think in 3.5 lore, Asmodeus (as well as others like Mephistopheles and Dispater) were Aphanacts, but in 4E lore, Asmodeus is an 4E Angel, specifically of an Archangel rank. These could be also compared or connected to Aphanacts though, as they are "Unaligned" (which contained Lawful Neutral) :
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Angel_(astral)
Asmodeus did and was created though serve an heavily Lawful Good Elder God - He Who Was (although one source at least implying he was closer to Lawful Neutral). |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 25 Jan 2020 : 04:49:34
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
The Findish Codex II from 3.5 Edition tells the myth of Asmodeus being a fallen angel. I don't know if it was told anywhere how it really began.
He was probably an aphanact. They were a race of angelic creatures from Mechanus obsessed with Law, and were supposedly annihilated by either celestials, gods or fiends. The inevitables popped up after they were destroyed.
Replace 'destroyed' with 'tainted with Evil' and 'annihilated' with 'booted out into Baator', and it fits someone we know. |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 24 Jan 2020 : 19:32:35
The Findish Codex II from 3.5 Edition tells the myth of Asmodeus being a fallen angel. I don't know if it was told anywhere how it really began. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 24 Jan 2020 : 17:26:52
Asmodeus is implied to be a fallen exemplar of Law, not an angel in the d&d sense. Prior to his fall, he was probably an aphanact. |
| Quickleaf |
Posted - 24 Jan 2020 : 08:47:07
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
I’m curious because I don’t own that Dragon Mag issue. Is it referring to the time Waukeen spent with Grazzt?
Here’s an older thread on Piazza that has some information too.
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?t=16179
Yep, that's exactly what the heresy refers to. |
| Storyteller Hero |
Posted - 24 Jan 2020 : 01:53:58
ASMODEUS was once an angel of chastity and goodness, before falling to devilhood for his own ambitions and "the greater good".
Gods of justice such as Tyr and Bahamut may have overzealous followers who pervert the teachings and commit atrocities in the name of justice.
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| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 23 Jan 2020 : 16:33:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not sure Lolth was ever good... Maybe she was neutral, but I don't think she was ever good.
It is just the same old story: boy meets girl, boy marries girl, boy and girl starts a family, girl gets jealous of boy so tries to get her kids to help kill boy, boy banishes girl and kids from hippy commune, girl goes goth and plots revenge. It happens all the time. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Jan 2020 : 16:11:14
I'm not sure Lolth was ever good... Maybe she was neutral, but I don't think she was ever good. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 23 Jan 2020 : 15:40:27
Sharess (who in the current era seems to be Bast again, since Zandilar has returned as an individual goddess) nearly fell to evil, but it was because of Shar's corruption, and then Sune managed to make her snap out of it.
There are Lolth, Vhaeraun and Selvetarm, and Tyche being corrupted by Moander, generating Tymora and Beshaba.
Shar and Selune have the Dark Moon Heresy, which implies that they're 2 sides of the same coin.
Not a goddess, but Grazz't's whispers might have contributed to bring Zariel to the dark side.
Nothing else that's really relevant comes to mind, though. |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 23 Jan 2020 : 15:35:11
Araushnee was the elven godess of destiny and partisans and part of the Seldarine, before becoming the evil godess Lolth. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 23 Jan 2020 : 05:39:23
Shar was once a creator of life and wasn’t “evil” until she was betrayed by Selune. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 23 Jan 2020 : 05:13:48
Tyche's corruption (with following split in two)? |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 23 Jan 2020 : 04:28:52
Heresies, likely, but good gods that have fallen to evil...not that I can think of, unless you count Araunshnee becoming Lolth. |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 21 Jan 2020 : 23:23:33
I’m curious because I don’t own that Dragon Mag issue. Is it referring to the time Waukeen spent with Grazzt?
Here’s an older thread on Piazza that has some information too.
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?t=16179 |
