| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| keftiu |
Posted - 20 Jan 2020 : 08:30:40
I mean, I understand that sometimes you need a baddie there’s no doubts about beating up on, but in the fiction: what do devotees of the Night Serpent hope to gain? It feels like a suicidal faith. |
| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Baltas |
Posted - 24 Jan 2020 : 09:28:38
Well Dendar's worshipers can see Dendar's destruction, as something natural, similarly to individual death. There are factions in D&D who even desire true death, like he Dustmen faction.
Worship of gods of destruction, is present in real life, like that of Shiva and Kali (who are seen as benevolent, despite D&D stating them as Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil respectively. To be fair though, Shiva and Kali also have their aspects of destroyers of evil in Hinduism, which aren't present in D&D.). With Destruction, even the end of the universe, is seen as a natural order of things, so that a new universe can be born out of the old ones ashes. |
| Storyteller Hero |
Posted - 24 Jan 2020 : 01:50:28
Dendar devours the nightmares of the living.
As such, she possesses knowledge of countless secrets, and can share such secrets with her faithful.
Knowledge is power.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Jan 2020 : 20:12:29
I won't address the topic of Lolth's rise to the top of the drow pantheon, but I think her hold is obvious. Between the "us against them" propaganda concerning everyone who isn't drow, the fact that her followers actively suppress worship of any other deity, and the fact that if you want power in drow society, she's the route -- between all that, her grip on the top makes sense.
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| Irennan |
Posted - 22 Jan 2020 : 19:39:25
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
This is a problem with many evil gods in fantasy. In D&D, you also have the likes of Lolth and Shar or [insert demon lord here], or what you have. Why worship them?
Lolth (in Faerun) - presumably made it big during Illythiir vs. Aryvandaar war as "OUR goddess", in that once tempers flared big time, obviously there was an appeal in opposing everything Vyshaan and sharing as little as possible with them... while That Which Lurks is not for everyone. After that, for survival. Then mostly because "everyone does", it's part of life, that's just the way things are.
Shar - mostly out of bitterness and grudges.
The rise of Lolth doesn't make much sense, though, when you consider that Vhaeraun was not only an alternative at the time (and he's one of the few evil deities that make sense), but the main deity of Ilythiir too. In fact, while it's explained why Eilistraee couldn't gain more followers (she went from patroness of Miyeritar to near powerlessness in the blink of an eye due to the Dark Disaster, and she had already been driven away from Ilythiir when she tried to fight Vhaeraun's and Ghaunadaur's influence on the dark elves, retaining only a very small base there), no reason was given as to why the drow didn't stay with Vhaeraun, who had led Ilythiir to become a powerhouse.
The only reason given is, AFAIK, that the First Sundering exterminated a lot of Vhaeraunites in Ilythiir, giving Lolth the opportunity to rise. However, this doesn't make a lot of sense, because Lolth was barely known back then, so this should have led to Ghaunadaur becoming the main deity. No reason was given as to why those who had chosen Ghaunadaur started changing deity and turning to Lolth--I mean, if they recognized how little sense it made to follow a deity that only wants to be fed, why turn to Lolth and not to Vhaeraun?
Even more important, it makes absolutely 0 sense that Lolth still controls the drow (and that they didn't lose faith) after 10k+ years of absolute misery and "edgy-phase teenager" levels of nonsense were forced on them (when loving your kids is taboo, or when "love is weakness", you have taken "stupid evil" (TM) to a whole new level). Even more so when you have other deities who actually care and go out of their way to help the drow thrive.
As for Shar, I'd say that grudges would lead people to Hoar more than her. I liked that she had this aspect that led people to find solace in nihilism, in seeing the world as inherently, inescapably wrong (as its most basic laws require all living things to suffer, lose what they love, and die) and therefore revolt against it (or maybe I'm just misremebering. I'm looking her lore up and not finding that anymore). However, that motivation alone wouldn't even come close to neat her a follower base large enough to make her a greater deity; she should have a niche cult at best. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 22 Jan 2020 : 18:33:55
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
This is a problem with many evil gods in fantasy. In D&D, you also have the likes of Lolth and Shar or [insert demon lord here], or what you have. Why worship them?
Lolth (in Faerun) - presumably made it big during Illythiir vs. Aryvandaar war as "OUR goddess", in that once tempers flared big time, obviously there was an appeal in opposing everything Vyshaan and sharing as little as possible with them... while That Which Lurks is not for everyone. After that, for survival. Then mostly because "everyone does", it's part of life, that's just the way things are.
Shar - mostly out of bitterness and grudges. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 21 Jan 2020 : 23:30:53
This is a problem with many evil gods in fantasy. In D&D, you also have the likes of Lolth and Shar or [insert demon lord here], or what you have. Why worship them? Power? Well, you can get your pacts and stuff with other entities that make sense and that would be eager to get your service anyway, so that's a non-point. It's either fear, or being insane, or being somehow forced/beaten (psychologically and/or physically, but mostly the former) into it. All reasons that are oftne not enough to warrant the size of their cults. It's why I either heavily alter these faiths (by having them offer something unique and/or giving them ideals and a story that isn't "hurr, I'm evil and I want to see things suffer/destroyed") or I remove them from the game, or I make them niche cults.
(Note that this isn't to say that ther aren't evild gods that also offer something that makes them useful in some way. For example, Ed explains that Malarites are accepted despite their violent creed because they help getting rid of monsters, since they consider dangerous creatures as worthy prey). |
| Quickleaf |
Posted - 21 Jan 2020 : 22:40:39
Canonically, it's an apocalyptic cult. Reason need not apply.
In my Tomb of Annihilation game, I twisted it a bit to add some nuance:
“Dendar will devour the sun, but life will go on, for She is the enemy of the Forsaken One, and our only weapon against it.” Essentially, everyone else thinks the cult is apocalyptic, and technically that's true, but they don't view Dendar as the cause of the apocalypse. There's some other terrible thing that's going to do something to the sun...possess it, explode it, eclipse it, be powered by it, etc.... and the only one who can stop it is Dendar. She's the savior of last resort, at least that's what her yuan-ti cultists think.
It's too bad for those creatures/plants that live off the sun that Dendar will have to eat the sun to beat the Forsaken One. But her yuan-ti cultists have volcano / geo-thermally active lairs where they can survive the new sunless world.
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 20 Jan 2020 : 14:07:58
Well my take is that what we know of dendar is from the point of view of the faithful of ubtao, and that it is all myth and legend anyway not factual or to be taken literally.
To the humans, dendar is sent to destroy the world and ubtao is the only thing that can stop him. To the yuan ti, dendar is one of the creations of merrshaulk, and he was sent to destroy the humans and allow the yuan ti to restore the empire of mhairshaulk once more.
But all of the above only works if you don't allow gods to talk to their worshippers directly, or to turn up after tea and instruct them on the ways they wish to be worshipped. I have all gods limited to the outer plane and so powerful that to converse with one directly would cause your head to explode. Instead they send visions and dreams that are a confusing mess of images and events that are fallible interpreted by the receiver (who has no idea which God sent the message in the first place).
Just my take. One man's destroyer of worlds is another man's means of deliverance into paradise. |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 20 Jan 2020 : 13:14:23
So is Shar’s. Some folks just want to watch it all burn. |
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