| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 19 Jan 2020 : 01:56:44
I was looking at some maps of Silverymoon, and noticed that the size of the city has changed...
In some of the older pencil drawn maps, the city is about 6000 ft. in diameter, in more recent computer created maps it seems to be only around 2000 ft.
Now that's a substantial difference, and while all the maps seem to do a poor job of scaling buildings, walls etc. the size changes are dramatic.
I have pulled this from the simplicity of looking at the map scale-line template. So my question is simply: what is the correct size of Silverymoon?
Cheers!
https://db4sgowjqfwig.cloudfront.net/campaigns/50942/assets/918240/Silverymoon__FR_Atlas.JPG?1542147637
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dderps-faerun/images/6/6e/Silverymoon.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170423085757 |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BrennonGoldeye |
Posted - 27 Jan 2020 : 17:15:26
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
quote:
Originally posted by BrennonGoldeye
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I was looking at some maps of Silverymoon, and noticed that the size of the city has changed...
In some of the older pencil drawn maps, the city is about 6000 ft. in diameter, in more recent computer created maps it seems to be only around 2000 ft.
Now that's a substantial difference, and while all the maps seem to do a poor job of scaling buildings, walls etc. the size changes are dramatic.
I have pulled this from the simplicity of looking at the map scale-line template. So my question is simply: what is the correct size of Silverymoon?
Cheers!
https://db4sgowjqfwig.cloudfront.net/campaigns/50942/assets/918240/Silverymoon__FR_Atlas.JPG?1542147637
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dderps-faerun/images/6/6e/Silverymoon.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170423085757
This would fit with the fact the Wards of Silverymoon, AKA its Mythal, extend 3000 ft in all directions from its casting point. I doubt they would leave Mythal protected land unused.
Where is this information from, because Silver Marches (3.0) says the wards extend 1000 ft. beyond the walls... That would mean that the city would have to be 4000 ft. in diameter... Which is still logically way too small.
It's the actual Mythal of Silverymoon per LEoF pg 50. :) |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 23 Jan 2020 : 10:34:40
quote:
Originally posted by BrennonGoldeye
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I was looking at some maps of Silverymoon, and noticed that the size of the city has changed...
In some of the older pencil drawn maps, the city is about 6000 ft. in diameter, in more recent computer created maps it seems to be only around 2000 ft.
Now that's a substantial difference, and while all the maps seem to do a poor job of scaling buildings, walls etc. the size changes are dramatic.
I have pulled this from the simplicity of looking at the map scale-line template. So my question is simply: what is the correct size of Silverymoon?
Cheers!
https://db4sgowjqfwig.cloudfront.net/campaigns/50942/assets/918240/Silverymoon__FR_Atlas.JPG?1542147637
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dderps-faerun/images/6/6e/Silverymoon.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170423085757
This would fit with the fact the Wards of Silverymoon, AKA its Mythal, extend 3000 ft in all directions from its casting point. I doubt they would leave Mythal protected land unused.
Where is this information from, because Silver Marches (3.0) says the wards extend 1000 ft. beyond the walls... That would mean that the city would have to be 4000 ft. in diameter... Which is still logically way too small. |
| ElfBane |
Posted - 22 Jan 2020 : 23:19:22
Turn miles into leagues, maybe that will help. |
| BrennonGoldeye |
Posted - 22 Jan 2020 : 19:17:13
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I was looking at some maps of Silverymoon, and noticed that the size of the city has changed...
In some of the older pencil drawn maps, the city is about 6000 ft. in diameter, in more recent computer created maps it seems to be only around 2000 ft.
Now that's a substantial difference, and while all the maps seem to do a poor job of scaling buildings, walls etc. the size changes are dramatic.
I have pulled this from the simplicity of looking at the map scale-line template. So my question is simply: what is the correct size of Silverymoon?
Cheers!
https://db4sgowjqfwig.cloudfront.net/campaigns/50942/assets/918240/Silverymoon__FR_Atlas.JPG?1542147637
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dderps-faerun/images/6/6e/Silverymoon.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170423085757
This would fit with the fact the Wards of Silverymoon, AKA its Mythal, extend 3000 ft in all directions from its casting point. I doubt they would leave Mythal protected land unused. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 21 Jan 2020 : 17:04:24
Volo's Guide To The North lists the population at 26,000; coupled with the FR Atlas map, might make a much more reasonable size for the city.
Mind you, that book has a map with yet another scale, that looks to be between the FR Atlas and 3e map estimation...
(I don't think the explanation of "people are better at estimating distance now" is a good explanation for the change, either; it flies in the face of what we know about historical measurements at this scale.)
Jeff |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 21 Jan 2020 : 15:35:18
So I've found this: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2019/12/20/silverymoon-has-826-structures-but-including-that-one-island-the-populaton-is-listed-at-37073-thats-about-45-people-per-structure/. While it does explain a bit, it nowhere close to being a realistic size for a city of 37000 inhabitant (probably more considering travelers).
A circle with a diameter of 2000 ft. is 0.11 square miles... giving the city a total population density of 336.000 per square mile... that 5 times the density of Manhatten, and I hardly expect Silverymoon to have that tall/deep buildings.
Even if we use the older maps, which is about 6000 ft. in diameter, that results in a population density of 37000... which is still 1.5 times as mush as New York City...
With that being said, and taking Ed's answers into concideration, what would be a reasonable population density? I'm thinking something around 13.000 per square mile... about half of New York? If that were the case, that would make Silverymoon about 10000 ft diameter or 5 times the diameter of the 3.0 map.
What are your thoughts on this?? |
| Nilus Reynard |
Posted - 20 Jan 2020 : 05:09:59
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
2,000 feet is pretty darned small for a city of that population though...so I値l stick to the original myself
Agreed. I will stick with the earlier map as well.
Seems like nothing but Wotc changing something for the sake of changing it. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Jan 2020 : 20:36:23
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
2,000 feet is pretty darned small for a city of that population though...so I値l stick to the original myself
Ditto.
Relying on the maps can be problematic; I think a lot of them were made without any regard to population figures or living space. There was one example I noted, where dividing the populace by the number of buildings on the map meant that there were an average of 50 people living in every building! |
| AJA |
Posted - 19 Jan 2020 : 19:44:27
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
2,000 feet is pretty darned small for a city of that population though...so I値l stick to the original myself
For the Realms I find that works best more often than not.
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| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 19 Jan 2020 : 19:33:41
2,000 feet is pretty darned small for a city of that population though...so I値l stick to the original myself |
| AJA |
Posted - 19 Jan 2020 : 19:21:16
Official perspective: Later information trumps earlier lore. Silverymoon is 2000ft in diameter
In-game perspective: It seems earlier mapmakers were incorrect in their scale; with better instruments we now have more correct maps. Silverymoon is 2000ft in diameter
Out-of-game perspective: WotC doesn't care, and neither should you. Pick which map or which scale appeals more to you, and go with it. Also, note that the architecture of Silverymoon is infamous for being built on top and below itself (I know Ed has made a couple Twitter replies on it relatively recently), so neither scale is truly representative of the city.
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