| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 22 Dec 2019 : 15:45:56
I like the concept and lore behind the 5ED shadow elves. I was just wondering if anyone has converted the 5ED Shadar-Kai into a 3.5ED stat block for the race? If not I may undertake the task myself. Any and all help is very welcomed.
CEV. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 02 Jan 2020 : 05:06:17
I think that every edition of D&D relies on the generations that they are found in. My generation was 1ED Advanced D&D so I had to learn 2 and 3.5ed. I stopped after that.
Things get broken when you don't talk across the gaming board. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 01 Jan 2020 : 22:41:21
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Sources on the Shades Level Adjustment varies, I've seen +4 and +5, both from 3.0 supplements. Aside from it being a terrible mechanic, it's notoriously skewed and subjective.
Somehow, this doesn't surprise me, given that in the 3.x era, no two sourcebooks agreed on the origin of the Shadow Weave or how it interacted with the Weave.
What books even fully detail the Shadow Weave though? The FRCS has some information, especially as it dealt with the feats Shadow Adepts got, but I don't know what other books really detail it? The super-adventures (Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroch) go into it slightly as it pertains to how it interacts with people, and how the Weave-deficient areas act like anti-magic fields. But overall lacking as far as setting-wide issues go.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It may be just my opinion, but to me, that shows that the Shadow Weave and everything related to it was simply poorly thought out and implemented, and further evidence that no one at WotC was talking to anyone else.
haha, there does seem to be quite a bit of evidence of that. I don't think they all looked at eacht others work once it was published. Hence why things got even more broken as the edition rolled out. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Jan 2020 : 21:38:03
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Sources on the Shades Level Adjustment varies, I've seen +4 and +5, both from 3.0 supplements. Aside from it being a terrible mechanic, it's notoriously skewed and subjective.
Somehow, this doesn't surprise me, given that in the 3.x era, no two sourcebooks agreed on the origin of the Shadow Weave or how it interacted with the Weave.
It may be just my opinion, but to me, that shows that the Shadow Weave and everything related to it was simply poorly thought out and implemented, and further evidence that no one at WotC was talking to anyone else. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 01 Jan 2020 : 21:33:01
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Sources on the Shades Level Adjustment varies, I've seen +4 and +5, both from 3.0 supplements. Aside from it being a terrible mechanic, it's notoriously skewed and subjective.
I fully agree. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 31 Dec 2019 : 07:27:23
Sources on the Shades Level Adjustment varies, I've seen +4 and +5, both from 3.0 supplements. Aside from it being a terrible mechanic, it's notoriously skewed and subjective. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 14:24:59
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Well let's see..
Take a human with the Shadow-kith template. At 6th level they'll have:
Base speed: 60-ft.
Resist Cold 11
Darkvision: 60-ft.
Shadow Blend
Plus
+2 Dexterity and Charisma
DR 10/magic +2
+4 luck to all saves.
Add this to say....a Swordsage or a Rogue or heck a spellcaster for a simple +2 LA that can be bought off? Even if you don't allow buy off what character at level 8 gets the same benefits?
Only a Shadar-Kai. Otherwise, the Shade Template is far more powerful than this one and is a LA+4. So maybe this should be a LA+3 then. An 8th level Shade would be more powerful than an 8th level Shadow-Kith. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 10:17:24
Well let's see..
Take a human with the Shadow-kith template. At 6th level they'll have:
Base speed: 60-ft.
Resist Cold 11
Darkvision: 60-ft.
Shadow Blend
Plus
+2 Dexterity and Charisma
DR 10/magic +2
+4 luck to all saves.
Add this to say....a Swordsage or a Rogue or heck a spellcaster for a simple +2 LA that can be bought off? Even if you don't allow buy off what character at level 8 gets the same benefits? |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 04:41:03
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
LA+2? I'm thinking thats waay off.
Explain please. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 04:20:27
LA+2? I'm thinking thats waay off. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 03:59:01
Yes .. schattenalfen.rtf ... not a finished product ready (or even meant) for publishing, but nonetheless an "official" one, lol. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 02:20:43
Shadow-Kith
Shadow-Kith are strictly Shadar-Kai that have risen above the standard, common expectations of their race. As Shadow Elves, they were exploited and enslaved by the Shadovar, and understand their history and patronage in the elven pantheon. As Shadow-Kith they know they are chosen for something more powerful and important. Most Shadow-Kith are loyal to The Raven Queen, and that is the typical way to become a Shadow-Kith. Though there are several ways to become a Shadow-Kith, this is the most common. Other ways are more complicated involving the elven god Erevan Ilesere, but that option is very rare and almost always rejected by the trickster god.
Most Shadow-Kith are powerful shadow elves that pledge to defend and promote the cause of the Shadar-Kai. To become a Shadow-Kith one needs to go through a ritual performed by a High Cleric of The Raven Queen. There is no order or affiliation to the queen herself once taken, but that subject must slay or control a Shadovar within 1 month or lose all Shadow-Kith abilities.
Shadow-Kith are Shadow elves (Shadar-Kai) that dwell on the Plane of Shadow, sometimes crossing into other planes where the barriers between dimensions are weak. Just as parts of the Plane of Shadow resemble a strange, distorted version of the Material Plane, Shadow-kith superficially resemble elves from the Material Plane. Shadow-Kith are darker, more elusive, and spookier than their material counterparts.
Shadow-Kith are strictly Shadar-Kai elves and are not to be confused with Shadow-Walkers or Shades. Other creatures native to the Plane of Shadow exist that have stronger or weaker connections to the energies of that place (such as the shadow mastiff or a Shade) and therefore do not follow this race specific template.
Creating A Shadow-Kith
"Shadow-kith" is a template that can be added to any Shadar-Kai elf that meets the requirements (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
A shadow-kith uses all the base creature's statistics and abilities except as noted here. Do not recalculate the creature's Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saves, or skill points if its type changes.
Size and Type: Shadar-Kai encountered on the Material Plane have the extraplanar subtype and are native to the Plane of Shadow.
Speed: As base creature x 2
Special Qualities: A shadow-kith retains all the special qualities of the base creature, and also gains the following:
Resistance to cold: Equal to 5 + 1 per Hit Die, to a maximum of 20.
Darkvision: Out to 60 feet.
Shadow Blend (Su): In any conditions other than full daylight, a shadow-kith can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment. Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell, does not negate this ability, but a daylight spell will. This total concealment ability works the same as a greater Invisibility spell cast at your total HD.
Shadow-Kith also have one additional special ability for every 2 Hit Dice they possess (minimum of one additional ability) chosen from the following list:
*+4 luck bonus on all saving throws.
*Cause Fear (Sp): 1/day. Caster level 10th. The save DC is Charisma-based.
*Damage reduction: 10/magic +2.
*Ability scores increase for Dexterity and Charisma by +2
*Fast healing 2.
*Mirror Image (Sp): 1/day. Caster level 15th.
*Dimension door (Sp): 1/day. Caster level 15th.
*Plane Shift (Sp): 1/day, to or from the Plane of Shadow only. Caster level 15th.
*Spell Resistance: 11 + character level.
*Attacks and Damage: Gain a +2 competence bonus on attacks and damage.
*Armor Class: gains a +4 deflection bonus to AC.
*Greater Blink (Sp): 1/day. Caster level 20th
Skills: Same as base creature. Shadow-Kith gain a +8 racial bonus on Hide Move Silently checks.
Feats: Same as the base creature.
Environment: Plane of Shadow
Organization: Same as the base creature.
Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +2.
Treasure: Same as the base creature.
Alignment: Usually Chaotic neutral.
Advancement: Same as the base creature.
Level Adjustment: Same as base creature +2.
I'm sure I messed up somewhere. Please feel free to help me with this template.Thank you.
CEV |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 02:18:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So I did some further Googling, and I managed to get those files. I had to use the Internet Archive to do it.
Here are the links. You'll have to copy/paste the links into your address bar, and for all but the text file, it should prompt a download.
Title: Shadow Elves - the DM's Guide
Description: Shadow Elves: The Official DM(TM) Book for the D&D(R) Game adapted from D&D accessory GAZ13 . Written especially for DMs.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080408204436/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/SHDELF-DM.ZIP
Title: Shadow Elves - the Player's Guide
Description: Shadow Elves: The Official DM(TM) Book for the D&D(R) Game adapted from D&D accessory GAZ13 . Written especially for Players.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080408204436/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/SHDELF-player.ZIP
Title: Shadow Elves
Description: Shadow Elves: The Official AD&D(R) Game Statistics
http://web.archive.org/web/20080408204436/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/SHADOW.TXT
Title: Schattenalfen - An Elvish Race
Description: From the Hollow World Set, Dungeon Master's Sourcebook.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080408204436/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/schattenalfen.rtf
Yes... all those. wow... the old yet rises again. I submitted a template for Shadar-Kai in a whole new thread. Feel free to enjoy or destroy my creation as you see fit. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 02:03:39
So I did some further Googling, and I managed to get those files. I had to use the Internet Archive to do it.
Here are the links. You'll have to copy/paste the links into your address bar, and for all but the text file, it should prompt a download.
Title: Shadow Elves - the DM's Guide
Description: Shadow Elves: The Official DM(TM) Book for the D&D(R) Game adapted from D&D accessory GAZ13 . Written especially for DMs.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080408204436/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/SHDELF-DM.ZIP
Title: Shadow Elves - the Player's Guide
Description: Shadow Elves: The Official DM(TM) Book for the D&D(R) Game adapted from D&D accessory GAZ13 . Written especially for Players.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080408204436/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/SHDELF-player.ZIP
Title: Shadow Elves
Description: Shadow Elves: The Official AD&D(R) Game Statistics
http://web.archive.org/web/20080408204436/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/SHADOW.TXT
Title: Schattenalfen - An Elvish Race
Description: From the Hollow World Set, Dungeon Master's Sourcebook.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080408204436/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/schattenalfen.rtf |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 29 Dec 2019 : 18:36:03
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That Schattenalfen thing looks like someone just transcribed part of a boxed set, instead of it being a separate offering.
The links to the old pdfs don't work. A couple of the non-pdf links work, but for the most part, those are all dead links.
I think that list was generated shortly after WotC took down the downloads page. The files remained available for a while after that, but then they disappeared.
I still fail to understand why they did that.
The preview I have seen say it is taken from 5 pages from a book but there is 23 pages in that document so I suppose there is more than that.
I have expected some links to be dead but hoped some still worked as you said (and wanted to spread your secret knowledge about direct links :-)
I also do not understand why they stopped that download page as it was already released. I have thought about gathering the whole package and offer it to all but I am not sure about legality of such behavior.
Probably they later realized how much interest is still there for old books and seen money in it so they stopped it and made it sellable again... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Dec 2019 : 17:37:29
That Schattenalfen thing looks like someone just transcribed part of a boxed set, instead of it being a separate offering.
The links to the old pdfs don't work. A couple of the non-pdf links work, but for the most part, those are all dead links.
I think that list was generated shortly after WotC took down the downloads page. The files remained available for a while after that, but then they disappeared.
I still fail to understand why they did that. |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 29 Dec 2019 : 16:45:48
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If those are the file names, they didn't park those files in the same place as the others I found from 2000ish.
I have found it only on scribd but I do not have a subscription. So if anybody wants it here is a link:
https://www.scribd.com/document/47212614/Schattenalfen-An-Elvish-Race
I have also found a list of direct links to wizards archives if someone wants to get those files:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/seeking-pdfs-of-old-modules.540317/
I hope I am not breaching some candlekeep ethical code - those are both openly accessable sites. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Dec 2019 : 20:31:01
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Some of that really old content is still there -- I just now downloaded a file from their site that was posted around 2000. So far as I know, there have been no links to the file since shortly after that time; I looked for that and other files off and on for a while before finding them, around 2007 or 2008.
If you could get the file name, I can see if I have it, or I can try to figure out the URL based on those other lost files that I know are still there. That was what I had to do to find the "Dwarven Myth" article -- I knew the URLs for some of the other files, and as soon as someone gave me the name for the file, I was able to figure out the path and download it.
schattenalfen.rtf and SHADOW.TXT
If those are the file names, they didn't park those files in the same place as the others I found from 2000ish. |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 28 Dec 2019 : 18:19:49
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Some of that really old content is still there -- I just now downloaded a file from their site that was posted around 2000. So far as I know, there have been no links to the file since shortly after that time; I looked for that and other files off and on for a while before finding them, around 2007 or 2008.
If you could get the file name, I can see if I have it, or I can try to figure out the URL based on those other lost files that I know are still there. That was what I had to do to find the "Dwarven Myth" article -- I knew the URLs for some of the other files, and as soon as someone gave me the name for the file, I was able to figure out the path and download it.
schattenalfen.rtf and SHADOW.TXT |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 26 Dec 2019 : 20:53:27
It could be worth trying to link the old "ellefolk" … a sub-faction of which escaped the plane of shadow to ravenloft in the shadow rift and became known as the "Arak". They created their own Seelie and Unseelie Court. They were immortal. Maybe those who DIDN'T escape led to the creation of the Shadar-Kai. To note, the Arak (Shee) were very similar in appearance to shadar-kai and had the ability to change shape into birds. Also, Arak (Sith) could change themselves into shadows (not the undead kind, but shadows) and had an affinity for death and looked even more like the shadar-kai. Given the 5e link of the shadar-kai to the raven queen (and her similarity to the queen of air and darkness), I wouldn't be surprised if someone linked these two sub groups of the ellefolk to the creation of the shadar-kai. To note, all these ellefolk were shapechangers (something mentioned in MToF that the primal elves were shapechangers). They were captured by a great "sorcerer-fiend" of the "demiplane of shadow" named Gwydion (using 2e terms) and infused with shadow stuff and enslaved by him. Then Arak the Erlking betrayed Gwydion and helped his people escape by having his two children Loht (a Sith) and Maeve (a Shee) lead them to ravenloft (these two children started their own Unseelie / Seelie courts). Gwydion was then entrapped in the Obsidian Gate which was used in the escape and Arak died defending their retreat. Ravenloft's grand conjunction eventually freed Gwydion.
Ironically, a similar story is seen with the ghost elves (powerful entity enslaves them, uses them as his warriors, messes with their ties to the world somehow, has them create a gate which they use to escape) … but that race was enslaved by a fiend of hell and they escape him via building a portal to the ethereal. One might be tempted to conflate the two powerful entities and have one backstory, but with some of the escaping ellefolk going to the ethereal and others going to ravenloft. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 25 Dec 2019 : 08:23:46
Blessing of Shadow should be clear about Resistance. The concept, as included with 4e, was to make you difficult to hit and reduce damage if you were. The same concept is applied in 5e as Resistance (half damage from attacks). For 3.5, if say either have them gain the effects of a blur spell for the next round. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Dec 2019 : 06:05:44
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
So if the Shadar-Kai came originally from The Plane of Faerie and later from the demi-plane of the Fey Wild... I wonder... were they Seelie or Unseelie?
Right? I mean, from what I understand, the Shadar-Kai came from the Plane of Faerie and then were duped or tricked into the Plane of Shadow along with their saviour-queen. So I wonder if they were a independent and separate society on the Plane of Faerie to begin with, or if they were affiliated with the Seelie or Unseelie Court in the beginning of their kin and kith.
Such as the Sun, Moon and Copper elves came from a Island kingdom called Faerie, on The Plane of Faerie. Am I close to correct? lol.
If only Elaine Cunningham could clarify for me right now. I can only imagine her story version of the Shadar-Kai.
Mayhaps they were a faction of Unseelie, at war with another faction, and things didn't work out so well for them. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 24 Dec 2019 : 22:36:13
So if the Shadar-Kai came originally from The Plane of Faerie and later from the demi-plane of the Fey Wild... I wonder... were they Seelie or Unseelie?
Right? I mean, from what I understand, the Shadar-Kai came from the Plane of Faerie and then were duped or tricked into the Plane of Shadow along with their saviour-queen. So I wonder if they were a independent and separate society on the Plane of Faerie to begin with, or if they were affiliated with the Seelie or Unseelie Court in the beginning of their kin and kith.
Such as the Sun, Moon and Copper elves came from a Island kingdom called Faerie, on The Plane of Faerie. Am I close to correct? lol.
If only Elaine Cunningham could clarify for me right now. I can only imagine her story version of the Shadar-Kai. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 24 Dec 2019 : 20:20:33
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
What amazes me is how many different "shadow elves" there have been in D&D...
Elves have always been popular (because Middle Earth), dark elves have long been even more popular (because stats, because Drizzt).
But Shadar-Kai - as interesting as they they might be - always struck me as late-3E fan service, all the best coolnesss of elf and drow and shade in one kickass package. Even the Shadovar (Netherese human shades) weren't as cool. Other shades based on demihumans and monster have never received much dedicated attention... sadly deprecating the possibilities (shadowdwarf, shadowkender, shadowgoblin, shadowgiant, shadowrustmonster, etc)... a special new race of distinct dark-fey-shades had to exist after human-shades discovered a shadowy new niche.
IMO, a character with the Shade template is far more powerful than a Shadar-Kai character. Just my two Zhents. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 24 Dec 2019 : 20:11:27
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Pretty sure the "advantage on saves" thing is 5E, too.
Also fixed. Thank you as well. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 24 Dec 2019 : 20:09:16
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
CEV, chill touch is not a cantrip in 3.5e, and the other two don't exist. Additionally, odd-numbered ability score bonuses don't exist in 3.5e.
Fixed. Thank you. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 24 Dec 2019 : 19:46:30
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Shadow Curse is supposed to be a balancing element, to keep the Level Adjustment of the Race to +1. By removing that, it easily jumps to LA +2. Add in teleport with basically an entropic shield buff, remove the -2 Con, and free spell-like abilities (even at 0 level) it's possibly a LA +3.
Like I suggested, keeping the -2 Con and Shadow-Curse but also giving it the Blessing of Shadow teleport makes it a +2 LA. I'd also change the usage to 1/day or at most 3/day. You can also mess around with the encounter-based design similar to what the Tome of Battle did, requiring at least 5 minutes of rest in between uses.
Yes, I absolutely agree with you. I'll fix it today. Thank you! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Dec 2019 : 16:14:25
Pretty sure the "advantage on saves" thing is 5E, too. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 24 Dec 2019 : 13:31:12
CEV, chill touch is not a cantrip in 3.5e, and the other two don't exist. Additionally, odd-numbered ability score bonuses don't exist in 3.5e. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 24 Dec 2019 : 07:23:45
Shadow Curse is supposed to be a balancing element, to keep the Level Adjustment of the Race to +1. By removing that, it easily jumps to LA +2. Add in teleport with basically an entropic shield buff, remove the -2 Con, and free spell-like abilities (even at 0 level) it's possibly a LA +3.
Like I suggested, keeping the -2 Con and Shadow-Curse but also giving it the Blessing of Shadow teleport makes it a +2 LA. I'd also change the usage to 1/day or at most 3/day. You can also mess around with the encounter-based design similar to what the Tome of Battle did, requiring at least 5 minutes of rest in between uses. |
| SaMoCon |
Posted - 24 Dec 2019 : 02:16:13
"short rest or a long rest to use it again" is not a 3.x mechanic. At will, 3/Day, every 10 minutes, and other variables of time are in the system of 3.x rules.
Also, does your Shadar-Kai have any weakness to bright light or other handicaps to offset the list of extraordinary, spell-like, & supernatural abilities? |
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