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T O P I C    R E V I E W
gylippus Posted - 15 Mar 2019 : 01:57:33
So, I finally started my own thread. I am reading Forgotten Realms novels mostly in order, but it just depends on what strikes my interest at any given point in time.

I just finished 'Crypt of the Shadowking' by Mark Anthony, the 6th book in the Harper series.

First off, wow! I really, really enjoyed this book. It was a joy to read and never felt like a chore, like some of the other books I have slogged through. Apparently, this is Mark Anthony's first book as sole author and he did a fantastic job. The characters are memorable and the plot has a few layers that make it more than a point A to B book.

Caledan - He is the main character, a former harper and a bard. I kind of got a Han Solo vibe from him, but he was different enough to keep my interest. On the other hand, I always thought bards could cast spells. Yes, he does some shadow magic at the end, but he doesn't cast anything else the entire book. According to the wiki he is a level 9 bard (2e). So what makes him a bard and not just a fighter that plays an instrument?

Mari - The love interest, but also an independent character with her own personality. I like the fact she is not the 'traditional' beauty or damsel in distress.

Tyveris - Definitely one of my favorite characters. It is cool to see a Tabaxi from Chult in the book. Although I really got more of a feeling he was like a Samoan rather than a slender native of Chult. It was nice to see a mix of a monk/priest with a warrior. I also couldn't help but think of Cadderly, since he is also a disciple of Oghma.

Ferret - His character was a bit of a stereotype, but he sacrificed himself for the party and was very noble in the end.

The only small complaint I have is that the shadevar seemed very much like a Nazgul. I couldn't help but think how the Nazgul couldn't follow Frodo into Rivendell because Glorfindel caused the river to magically sweep them away. There was a very similar scene in the book, when they cross a river to flee the shadevar. Still, it is a minor quibble with an otherwise great book.

I think there is a sequel to this book so now I have to go find it on eBay. Plus, it would be interesting to know if there is more material that covers shadow magic.
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Seravin Posted - 15 Nov 2021 : 11:46:10
That Spellfire review was hella entertaining. Sorry I haven't responded to this thread in a while, it's quite good! Hopefully continues.
For Spellfire/Crown of Fire I am afraid the problems mount, but I actually think Crown of Fire is a much better book in terms of keeping the narrative and character count manageable. It's problems are maybe the opposite of the first book in that the plot is very simple and repeats itself (Shandril in trouble from a huge gang of baddies, Shandril roast them to death, Shandril cries and says she can't go on, Shandril decides after getting a pep talk from Narm/Elminster/Harper/Knight that she can go on, repeat).

But Crown of Fire has some neat battles with Manshoon and Elminster, and I think the payoff in the end is decent. Huge plot hole throughout it though which we'll get to.

___

Agreed that Kymil's motivations could be explained by us, I don't think Elaine did a great job in explaining that to the reader but I didn't have a problem with his motivations the way I did with how neither the Harpers nor the Elves executed him for committing regicide and killing 20 Harpers and framing Arilyn and all the rest of his many crimes that would have him executed in modern day countries, never mind in the Realms when both the Harpers and the Elves have killed people for much less. And also all the problems I have with Arilyn thinking she has to keep him alive to clear her name when the world has detect lie and speak with dead and senior Harpers know she is innocent and all the rest of the problems I've expressed over and over again over the last 20 years.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 11 Nov 2021 : 15:05:44
I think Kymil's thinking was that if the royal family was wiped out, it would have proven that they weren't fit to rule. And with them gone, there would have been no choice but to institute a council to assume control. Even if the council contained an even mix of gold and moon elves, it wouldn't be moon elves ruling alone over gold elves, which would have represented an improvement, to him and those who shared his views.

Plus, given their arrogance and thoughts on the other elven races, Kymil and his buds likely thought that gold elves would natural dominate such a council. Even if the golds elves didn't numerically dominate the council, how could those weak-mind grays compare to the superior intellects of the gold elves? The gold elves would easily be able to manipulate or push the grays into doing what the gold elves said. (Thinking like Kymil, there). The moon elven members of the council could eventually be pushed out and replaced by gold elves, too -- it may take a few centuries, but eventually, gold elves would rule alone.
TBeholder Posted - 11 Nov 2021 : 14:19:07
Another thought.
quote:
Originally posted by gylippus

1. Kymil's plan seemed somewhat weak. Put six gold elves through the portal and hope they could kill the entire royal family. Let's say, for argument's sake, they do kill the entire royal family. Do you think all of the moon elves would gladly have a council of gold elves rule over Evermeet AFTER the royal family was murdered? It seems that this would have started a race war between gold and moon elves, thereby, making ALL of the elves weaker and hastening the loss of elven power.


quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

Really it only works from a nihilistic point of view of trying to weaken and destroy the moon elves, it wouldn't seem to accomplish his goals as the elves wouldn't treat kindly to a bloody coup the way orcs or goblins would accept a new leader who slew their old leader. Seems a bit weak but I think Kymil being bent on murdering the moon elves maybe explains that? Although he seems cold and rational in Elfshadow (less so in Evermeet the novel) and yeah, I'd question his end game motivation in Elfshadow as being a bit too thoughtless given how much planning and convolution is involved in his planning to actually OPEN the elf gate.

After thinking a bit more about it: an envious human would first think "how can I take it for myself?", then "how can I steal it and have it?", then "how can I kill them and then have it?"
A "barbarian" (in Zakharan terms) elf envious to the degree where murder is on the table is simply upset about someone he doesn't acknowledge as superior has something he does not. That is, habit of acquisitiveness does not sneak in to distort and govern it, so it remains purely about subjective perception of status and governed by petulance. The envy is not hijacked by greed, so it can grow free.
Thus he thinks "how can I kill them for daring to have something I don't?", then leave the object of envy in the dirt and leave in a huff, satisfied that its previous owner proved not so superior, which is all that matters.
Artemas Entreri Posted - 23 Feb 2021 : 14:09:49
quote:
Originally posted by gylippus

I am still plugging away at these old fr books. Just finished Crusade the last book in the Empires Trilogy. Keep in mind I read the first book Horselords over a year ago and absolutely loved it. That book is one of the best fr books I have read so far. Then I read the second book and absolutely despised it, thus the long wait. So what did I think of the third book? To be blunt, I thought it was terrible, but nearly as bad as the second book. Lets talk about basic problems first, then get more advanced.



I never liked the idea of having a trilogy with a different author for each book.
gylippus Posted - 23 Feb 2021 : 02:50:06
I am still plugging away at these old fr books. Just finished Crusade the last book in the Empires Trilogy. Keep in mind I read the first book Horselords over a year ago and absolutely loved it. That book is one of the best fr books I have read so far. Then I read the second book and absolutely despised it, thus the long wait. So what did I think of the third book? To be blunt, I thought it was terrible, but nearly as bad as the second book. Lets talk about basic problems first, then get more advanced.

First, I didn't care about a single character in the book. Sure, Azoun and Vangy were fine but they didn't do anything for me. And the entire first 100 pages was complete filler. Another poster mentioned the first 100 pages were slow and he was right. Nothing happens, I mean nothing. Azoun whines about the crusade, wondering if it is the right thing and there is a stupid sub-plot with a trappers guild no one cares less about and goes nowhere. Finally, the crusade gets underway and still nothing happens. We get a big storm with some boats, whoop whoop, and we are introduced to Azoun's long lost daughter Alusair and the dwarves. Didn't like any of them either.

The end of the book picks up a little when there is finally the battle with the Tuigan, which I will get back to. First, lets talk about the concept of a crusade to begin with. Obviously, in European history the Crusades were holy wars to take back part of the holy land. However, they also had an economic impetus. Meaning, there were a bunch of knights who stood to inherit no land, because they were not first born sons, and the Crusades gave them an excuse to get land in the Middle East. They were moderately successful at first. I say all of this because in this book there is no economic benefit to the crusade at all. It is framed simply as Azoun doing the 'right' thing to help people. Now, if Azoun was so concerned about the right thing, why didn't he start a crusade against Zhentil Keep long before this? Yes, I said it. He could have gathered his army, the Sembians, and the Dalesman and crushed Zhentil Keep, which is obviously evil, doing him direct harm, and much closer. Anyway, just a thought.

Now, let's get back to the battles with the Tuigan. First, Yamun may distrust magic, BUT in the first book it is pretty clear he is a smart guy. Plus, as I mentioned in my review of the second book, the Tuigan do have spell casters. In the first book the Kadun mentioned how they disintegrated a bunch of rocks near the battlefield close to the dragonwall. In the second book they disappear until a shaman at the end of the book casts a bridge spell. My points is this, Yamun doesn't seem to mind using them to help him achieve his ends. So where are all of these Tuigan spellcasters? They conveniently disappear. Also, Yamun doesn't seem to mind having the wizards of Thay help him. In the book it mentioned they left before the Tuigan hit the magic dead zone. Ok, so why didn't they come back? Hmmmm perhaps because they would have absolutely crushed the Alliance army and uhhhh we want them to win. Think about it, if only 10 Tuigan cast some fireballs into the dwarves pike squares they would have been toast. Same thing with the Alliance's front line. And before you say the Tuigan can't cast fireballs remember that one did in the first book with a fireball wand. So they can obviously make the wands and use them.

Lastly, there were 100k Tuigan against 30k Alliance troops. In the first battle 15k Alliance troops died BUT they killed like 30k Tuigan. Ok, I am not an expert on military history, but I have read a fair share. In most battles the Mongols were evenly matched with their enemies, in some they slightly outnumbered them, and in some they were outnumbered, but they won all of the battles. However, in this scenario the Tuigan are literally decimated by the Alliance longbows. Yes, I know longbows can do a lot of damage, one only need look at the 100 years war to see that, but Yamun wouldn't be stupid enough to simply charge straight ahead. Also, why didn't the Tuigan kill the entire Alliance in the first battle? The entire cavalry was killed, at that point the Tuigan could have surrounded the Alliance, charged their flanks, and killed them. Even if the dwarves were on one flank the Tuigan controlled the other one. And if they can turn that flank the battle is over. It is late here and I am not thinking straight. There are more problems with the book but I am moving on with my life. What a shame, the first book was brilliant and then it just devolved.
Stones Finder Posted - 15 Feb 2021 : 01:45:17
I thought that the ending of Feathered Dragon was meant to reinforce the theme of the Avatar Trilogy - the gods, even the so-called "good" ones, were terrible people. This may also be a theme of Douglas Nile's writing; in the Druidhome Trilogy, all the gods of Faerun, regardless of alignment, are trying to force their way into the Moonshaes (and possibly kill the Earthmother - it's been a long time since I read that trilogy).

It's also worth noting that Qotal's disdain for mortal lives was never mentioned in canon Maztica products again. In particular, the Maztica boxed set says nothing about him being denounced by his own high priest, and he's written up as a good-aligned god - whose previous fall from grace came when he raped his sister. I assume that's straight out of real-world mythology, because I can't imagine 80's-era TSR making even veiled references to it otherwisw.
gylippus Posted - 14 Feb 2021 : 15:30:06
Just finished reading Feathered Dragon the last book in the Maztica trilogy. So, here are my thoughts for the two people who still read posts in this forum. So far the Maztica trilogy has been one of the better trilogies I have read in FR. I think part of this is because there is one author, unlike other trilogies, and it focuses on the main characters in every book. However, overall, I think the second book is the best one. The third book was fine, but we hop around a lot from Halloran/Erix to Cordell to Darien to Gultec to Don Vaez to Hoxitl. Finally, towards the end of the book all of these individual threads meet up, but in the beginning of the book it just breaks up the pace and some of those characters are more interesting than others. The ending of the book was good but it leaves a lot of loose threads. It is a shame there weren't more books in Maztica. I think there are more stories to be told there and I would even read an additional book about Cordell. He was starting to grow on me as a character. We never really know what happens to him. Sure, he is on the winning side and he is sending ships back to Amn, with gold I suppose. But it would be interesting if he realizes all of this gold was stolen and he tries to reciprocate in some way. That could be an entire story in and of itself. Lastly, I was a little bummed out by the end Quotal/Zaltec battle. I never really got a great idea of what Quotal stood for. Was he a gentle kind god trying to restore the balance? Was he just sort of an aloof a-hole? Coton accuses him of being selfish and careless, but it seemed like he was trying to help out and destroy Zaltec, so I didn't quite get all of that. Anyway, time to move on, perhaps I will finally finish the Crusade or the last book in the Cleric Quintet.
gylippus Posted - 06 Feb 2021 : 22:43:04
On to the next book! I just finished reading Viperhand by Douglas Niles, the second book in the Maztica trilogy.

I enjoyed the first book, but I do think this book was even better. The first book is a little slow at the beginning and it introduces all of the characters but the second book really ramps up the pace. Mr. Niles does a good job of weaving the storyline of a lot of characters together and we even start to feel for all of them as individuals. To be honest, I feared this trilogy would just be a bald faced rip off of history, Cortez and Montezuma, and to some extent it is, BUT I think the author infuses enough of FR lore into the world as well as some interesting magic to make it original. I feel like Douglas Niles doesn't really get much credit in the FR universe, he is often overlooked as an author, but this series is much more enjoyable than some I have read. The author writes well, there are no major plot holes, and it flows together smoothly, I have no complaints in that department. My one small gripe is the little diary sections at the end of chapters written by Coton the priest. I found those boring and pretty pointless and I started skipping them after awhile.

On to the cover art! The cover is by Fred Fields and it is very good. I like the covers of all of these books. The one thing that stood out to me though was what Darien was wearing. It looks like 80s style leotards you would wear in an aerobics class, right down to the gaudy colors. It brought me back to my days of shame, my youth, when I myself wore spandex. It is not something I like to bring up, but it happened, and it will forever be etched into my soul as a mark of shame. Okay, on to the Feathered Dragon!
LordofBones Posted - 30 Jan 2021 : 11:18:38
quote:
Originally posted by gylippus
She was in the Tower of Ashaba once and Elminster said even he wouldn't be able to detect her. I understand her and Elminster are probably some of the most powerful mages, but isn't Manshoon just about as powerful?



Manshoon is nowhere near most of the chosen, much less Elminster. I'll put it this way; Manshoon is a T-rex in a setting full of kaiju.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 30 Jan 2021 : 03:55:24
quote:
Originally posted by gylippus

After the entire Company died I went from actively enjoying the book to tolerating it. There were some disjointed sequences where Shandril jumps through some portals and ends up in Myth Drannor where Narm sees her. I didn't like any of that part of the book. There are all of these people running around the ruins and you really have no idea why they are there. It seemed to me that they were all plot devices to somehow get Narm to follow Shandril and bring the Knights and Elminster with him eventually to save her.


I think what Ed was trying to accomplish here was showing that there's always something going on in the Realms -- plotters and cabals are meeting, enemies are fighting, etc -- and that it's literally going on all the time.

It's an element that pops up in some of his other FR novels.

And I get what he's trying to do... But for me, it's like walking in halfway through a movie: onscreen, people are coming and going and you have no idea who they are, what they're doing, or if there's any significance to any of it. It is very jarring for me, and making me feel like I'm missing part of the story really impacts my enjoyment of the rest of it.

It's part of the reason I'm not a fan of Ed's fiction. His world-building is amazing, but I feel that his fiction tries to do too much and doesn't succeed. I think a tighter focus, with less "elsewhere, at the exact same time, this entirely unrelated thing that will never be mentioned again was happening!" would work a lot better.

All my opinion, of course.
gylippus Posted - 29 Jan 2021 : 23:23:06
Just finished reading Spellfire by Ed Greenwood. First, I noticed this book is quite polarizing. It is mentioned in many threads and people have argued back and forth about it. This almost made me not want to post anything for fear of offending someone, but this is a forum about FR books and I think everyone is entitled to an opinion as long as it doesn't cross certain boundaries and become vicious.

First, the story. I picked up the book and read the first 50 - 60 pages pretty rapidly. I was a little surprised because I had heard some negative things and I really enjoyed the story up until the entire Company of the Bright Spear died. In my opinion, if the book was just about Shandril slowly learning her powers as she adventured with the Company of the Bright Spear it would have been much better. I was expecting her to somehow absorb some energy from the cult magician and save the entire Company by accident. Then they could go off, heal up, get into some more scrapes with the Cult, and eventually kill the first dracolich at the end of the book. But things didn't turn out that way...

After the entire Company died I went from actively enjoying the book to tolerating it. There were some disjointed sequences where Shandril jumps through some portals and ends up in Myth Drannor where Narm sees her. I didn't like any of that part of the book. There are all of these people running around the ruins and you really have no idea why they are there. It seemed to me that they were all plot devices to somehow get Narm to follow Shandril and bring the Knights and Elminster with him eventually to save her.

After Shandril kills the first two dracoliches and nearly kills Manshoon I started to actively dislike the book. I felt that this entire spellfire thing was waaaaay too overpowered. Then her and Narm are brought back to Shadowdale to 'train'.

Okay, they train for about three days. No seriously, at the end of the book Shandril says the entire book, from when she was first chased took place over ten days. I don't think this is nearly enough time to master spellfire or for Narm to become a decently powerful mage as it is indicated. People train for YEARS to become powerful mages. So he goes from level 2 to level 5 in two days? Or whatever the level progression is. Elminster himself says Narm has learned much. Hmmmm ok.

Back to Narm and Shandril, they meet, sleep together, and get married in a few days. They literally sleep together in a rocked filled cavern. Doesn't sound very cozy. This is after they have said about three sentences to each other. I understand people meet and fall in love pretty rapidly in most of these books. For instance, Giogioni and Cat fall in love in about two days. So that is not the major problem for me. KN and JG just had a better way coming up with little scenes that made the love story progress in a sort of cute and funny way rather than the story in Spellfire, which was very abrupt and a little creepy tbh.

When the heroes are in Shadowdale we get a lot of little scenes of the bad guys running around. I started to lose track of who these people were. Ok, there are the Zhents, which have mages, priests, and warriors, then the Cult, and then, wait an AIRSHIP suddenly swoops down out of the sky with mercenaries? Who are those people? Oh, it doesn't matter, they are all dead now. That is when I went from disliking the book, to strongly disliking the book. Narm and Shandril get married, one paragraph later they are flying through the sky NUDE as a flying ship of mercs busts into their wedding. I found that entire sequence really bizarre.

Then, they must leave the Dale. There are reasons given but I don't understand them really. Shouldn't they stay in the Dale? Elminster can protect them and teach Narm more magic. Shandril can learn more spellfire. They can help the Knights protect Myth Drannor. If Elminster trains her up for another week they can go to Zhentil Keep and literally blast it into oblivion. Why do they have to leave? She doesn't want to endanger her friends? They are endangered anyway, might as well stick together and bring more force to bear on their enemies. Plus, like I said, she is literally a nuclear weapon. Anyway, they leave... Another dracolich is killed and so on and they walk through Thunder Gap.

Alright, let's talk about characters. Like I said, I liked the Company of the Bright Spear, they were growing on me when they got wiped. Most of the knights to me are interchangeable:

Florin, Merith, Lanseril, Mourngrym ...
Sharl, Storm, Jhessail, Illistyl ...

The two I liked the most are Torm and Rathan. This leads me to a positive point. Ed Greenwood has some great descriptions of scenery and settings. Some of the best I have read. There was a scene where he describes a pool behind Storm's house that made you feel like you were there. Later, perhaps the best part of the book was when Torm and Rathan bring Snuggleguts to a little girl. Earlier, he described Elminster's face coming out of the shadows. These descriptions make the book a little denser. You can't just blast through it like Pool of Radiance. You have to slow down a little and concentrate. I mean, it isn't Joseph Conrad, but it is on a different level than a lot of Realms books. Which, leads to a different point...

The dialogue. I don't know what to say of the dialogue. I think the old times yes and thees threw me off. This is the only Realms books where people talk this way and it interrupts the flow of conversation. There are a lot of "Well met!" and such in the book that become repetitive. Some of the dialogue can be cool, like when people describe some of the lore, but other times entire pages of dialogue feel inserted into the book to let the reader know about other parts of the Realm. For instance, there is a section where the Knights give Narm and Shandril advice about where to go and it is just one big travelogue.

Moving on... Why is the Simbul in this book? She could be cut out entirely and nothing would be lost, and having her in the book made it gain nothing.

There seems to be a lot of hooking up in this book...

Lhaeo/Storm
Narm/Shandril
Elminster/Simbul
Gorstag/Lureene

Some of those scenes were a little cringey. I found myself thinking, for real, that it would have been interesting if Elminster and Lhaeo really were lovers.

Last thing. I feel like magic is very uneven in this world. Sometimes, people can cast all sorts of spells to protect from scrying/teleporting, magical intrusion, and so on, and other times in some books all of this is just forgotten. Examples: The Simbul has a spell, when someone says her name she automatically hears some of the conversation, no matter where in the world it occurs. What? She can teleport just about anywhere, AND no detect magic spell works on her. She was in the Tower of Ashaba once and Elminster said even he wouldn't be able to detect her. I understand her and Elminster are probably some of the most powerful mages, but isn't Manshoon just about as powerful? Why can't someone teleport right near Shandril, hide in the woods, then shoot her with an arrow? Oh wait, I forgot, they were trying to capture her, but why? They should know there is no way they could control her. She is too dangerous. And it is not like they could 'learn' spellfire from her. It is an innate power. So rather than trying to capture her, just kill her.

In the end, I am glad I read the book. Like I said, Mr. Greenwood does have a way with words and the book is essential reading to understand the lore of the realms. He does a good job at world building. There are some positives there. However, I never liked the character of Shandril, she is sort of a Mary Sue who can do no wrong, and none of the Knights seem to have any flaws at all, rather than drinking a little too much. Still, I will read the second book just to see what happens.
Seravin Posted - 26 Jan 2021 : 22:57:35
Aww Pool has a special place in my heart since the gold box computer game was my introduction to the Forgotten Realms (I had played D&D before it but not gotten the Old Grey Box yet).
It's not exactly well written, but something about the "hero" characters in this novel and the 2 sequels is compelling to me. But the villains are...always really lacking in these books. They can't write a villain, James Ward and his writing partner. Without a proper threat, or worse, a threat written in a cartoon narrative fashion, is really difficult to worry about the heroes and create tension or drama.

I loved the final fight with the dragon, even if it ends with deus ex machina - it was still an entertaining page turn as all the heroes got to shine a bit. Man you are going to hate how Bane is written in Pools of Darkness... :)

Can't wait for your Spellfire critique.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 26 Jan 2021 : 18:43:47
The Pools novels are part of why I have a strong dislike of Phlan.
gylippus Posted - 26 Jan 2021 : 18:39:55
Just finished reading Pool of Radiance by James M. Ward and Jane Cooper Hong

First, I will discuss the cover in a different post ...

Before we talk about the book, let's imagine you are part of a really great D&D gaming campaign. You make some characters you really love, those characters level up and get some loot, and eventually save the day. Sounds fun, right? Now, let's imagine you decide to write a book about your awesome gaming session ... Sounds like a great idea, right? Not so much.

Basically, Pool of Radiance is a gaming session turned into a book. First, I have no idea why anyone in their right mind would want to live in Phlan. This is a city surrounded by a ruined city filled with monsters. It is a fine set up for a gaming session but not for a novel. The characters are almost flawless. Ren, Tarl, and Shal are all good looking, nice, kind, and powerful. That is it. They enter Plan and are sent on several missions by Cadorna, a councilman. However, the very first mission is a punishment for brawling. Wait? In this city, if you get into a drunken fight you are either thrown over the walls and left to the monsters or sent on a suicide mission? Why didn't anyone else in the tavern get arrested? That makes no sense.

Also, if the city council is trying to recapture Phlan why don't they organize an ARMY? Instead, they send random groups of adventurers out into the city on missions? This would be like trying to recapture Fallujah by sending a small band of special forces into the city with no back up. Every time they don't return, send one more small force.

The entire plot centers around the Lord of the Ruins trying to complete a spell that will allow him to rule the entire world. Not just one small part of Toril, or a city, or even a region. Nope. This hexagon thingy will give him enough power to mind control everyone on Toril. But to finish the hexagon thingy he needs two more ioun stones. His goons have searched all over Toril for two more stones, from Waterdeep to Cormyr and they just can't find them darn it. Wait, Ren happens to have two ioun stones, very convenient. This made me think, and perhaps someone who knows a lot more than me can answer this question, how rare are ioun stones in the Realms? If this book is any indication, they must be extremely rare, like only six in the known world. I always thought they were decently uncommon but not super rare. Guess I was wrong. Anyway, the heroes are sent on some missions, they kill some monsters, they gather some evidence that is just sitting there with big red letters that says, EVIDENCE FILE AGAINST CADORNA, they jump through some teleporters like Sonic the Hedgehog, and they kill a bad guy. The big baddy gets away to live another day and probably show up in a sequel.

Stand out silliness: Vampire Lord dialogue:

The vampire roared in delight. "It's just you and me now, booooy!!" He gloated over his words. "I'm going to have your blood -- and theirs -- for dinner!"

Uhhhh ... can someone get Count Strahd in here to kill this pathetic excuse for a vampire please? I would rather have Odette from Transylvania 6-5000 in the book than this guy. Yes! I actually just did reference a campy horror movie from 1985!
gylippus Posted - 24 Jan 2021 : 21:28:30
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

Yay welcome back gylippus!
Glad to see you picking up the thread again. I never read Council of Blades, so can't contribute to your review at all :(
Honestly the Nobles series was a let down except The Simbul's Gift, which has been one of the best FR series books ever written in my mind.




Well, I should get to the Simbul's Gift soon, but I am halfway through Pool of Radiance now, will post on it in the next day or so, plus, I still haven't finished Spellfire ...
Seravin Posted - 24 Jan 2021 : 19:43:07
Yay welcome back gylippus!
Glad to see you picking up the thread again. I never read Council of Blades, so can't contribute to your review at all :(
Honestly the Nobles series was a let down except The Simbul's Gift, which has been one of the best FR series books ever written in my mind.
Artemas Entreri Posted - 23 Jan 2021 : 21:35:57
quote:
Originally posted by gylippus

So, I finally started my own thread. I am reading Forgotten Realms novels mostly in order, but it just depends on what strikes my interest at any given point in time.

I just finished 'Crypt of the Shadowking' by Mark Anthony, the 6th book in the Harper series.

First off, wow! I really, really enjoyed this book. It was a joy to read and never felt like a chore, like some of the other books I have slogged through. Apparently, this is Mark Anthony's first book as sole author and he did a fantastic job. The characters are memorable and the plot has a few layers that make it more than a point A to B book.



Mark Anthony was one author who should have written more Realms books. I enjoyed his Ravenloft stuff as well.
gylippus Posted - 23 Jan 2021 : 13:50:24
Alright, alright, alright ... I am back after taking a break for a few years. To be clear, I am not really reading anything in order or planning on reading every FR book. However, I do focus on books written up to about 2000. I may change my mind later, who knows ... On to the book!

I just finished reading The Council of Blades by Paul Kidd. It is the fifth book in The Nobles series. As usual I looked at the cover, which shows some guy on a horse. Nothing to see here folks .. so I looked up Paul Kidd on the internet. As it turns out he made a rpg called Lace and Steel which was published in Australia and he wrote another book, not FR, published by TSR. I looked up Lace and Steel on eBay and saw that it is rare and the last copy of a sourcebook sold for around $60. Apparently it is a rpg set in ... Renissance style Italy.

As people have said before, this book is set in the Blade Kingdoms which is basically Renaissance Italy. Now, I don't think this necessarily makes it a bad book. There are plenty of examples of analogues in FR, from Horselords to Maztica. I have enjoyed some of them and not others. The same can be said about the more realmsian books. The book follows the adventures of Princess Milianna, an aspiring mage, and Lorenzo, a young inventor. Basically Lorenzo is Leonardo da Vinci. He is a good artist and the author uses some of Leonardo's inventions in the book, like the 'battle turtles' and flying machines.

I know I am going against the grain but overall I enjoyed the book. I liked the characters and the author kept me turning the pages. This is one of those books with no major problems. The pacing is fine, the plot makes sense and develops nicely, and I enjoyed the characters. But it is also one of those books that doesn't make a huge impact on you. It is like War in Tethyr, which I enjoyed, but two years later, I don't remember a single thing about the book, not even the main characters names. This book might stick with me a little more. I liked the budding romance between Milianna and Lorenzo and you find yourself rooting for them. I think if the author had deleted some specific Italian Renaissance terms it might have meshed a little better with the world at large, but anytime you start using specific language terms from our world it really takes me out of the setting instantly. On the plus side, I think the author did a credible job of writing battle scenes and he doesn't forget about wizards and flying cavalry. In many FR books it feels like people just forget about battle wizards because it makes writing about battle inconvenient and chaotic.

The book does have a fair amount of silliness usually related to Lorenzo's inventions. Also, for the life of me the firebird reminded me of a cartoon roadrunner, with its spinning eyes, little dances, and grins.

This book did get me thinking about FR as a whole, and in general the world is very disparate. Yes, I know, our world has many different cultures, languages, customs, etc, but a world needs to at least fit together in terms of technology and time period and the more I read FR the more that doesn't seem to be the case. Some TSR worlds are very cohesive, such as Dark Sun, or even Dragonlance. That doesn't mean I enjoy those worlds or books more, but it is a fact. Maybe this is because FR has so many different books with different authors they just sort of let people do whatever they wanted. I would be curious to know how TSR handled creative oversight when they started expanding the world. Anyway, I am moving back to Spellfire, which I already started and got to page 200 before reading this book. I will try to finish that book and post about it next.
Seravin Posted - 19 Aug 2019 : 22:38:43
quote:
Originally posted by gylippus

Seravin,

I haven't read Once Around the Realms yet. Escape from Undermountain is just the worst FR book I have read, and I have only read around 30 at this point, so I still have quite a ways to go!



Ahh gotcha! I very much recommend Once Around the Realms!! It will give your reviews a bottom level rating scale, and also stars your 2 faves Volo and Passeopout. It's the tale of how they meet!
CorellonsDevout Posted - 19 Aug 2019 : 16:52:38
Thankfully, there are plenty of good FR books out there, too lol.
gylippus Posted - 19 Aug 2019 : 11:55:17
Seravin,

I haven't read Once Around the Realms yet. Escape from Undermountain is just the worst FR book I have read, and I have only read around 30 at this point, so I still have quite a ways to go!
Seravin Posted - 19 Aug 2019 : 11:12:41
quote:
Originally posted by gylippus

Finished reading Escape from Undermountain by Mark Anthony

It is hard to believe this book was written by the same author as Curse of the Shadowmage. In all respects it is a huge step backward.

I knew I was in trouble when I picked it up and looked at the cover. The art looks like Glenn Danzig from the Misfits. I turned it over and read the back. So this entire book is in one dungeon? That does not sound promising and it isn't.

The plot is easy to sum up. A noble, Darien, hires Artek to go into a dungeon under Waterdeep called Undermountain to 'rescue' a lost lord named Corin. He has 48 hrs to rescue the lord or a magical tattoo on his arm will kill him.

The title and plot read like a themed ride from a roller coaster park and the book is about the same. It is one long dungeon crawl. That is it. Artek meets some people, they enter a room, stuff happens, they escape to the next room, repeat. That is the whole book.

Artek has a silly name and at no point does Mark Anthony really convince me of his character. Supposedley he is a famous rogue but he doesn't seem smart enough or ruthless enough. He meets up with a mage named ... wait, I already forgot her name ... wow ... I just finished reading the book last night and I forgot her name. That tells you something. Anyway, she seems just like Mari from Shadowmage. She isn't pretty but still interesting in a non-pretty way.

Stand out silliness: At one point they find a ship near an underground river. It is not just any ship, but a fully rigged schooner. They speculate pirates must have sailed the ship into a cave and up the river and then died. Okay, I am not an expert in sailing but the idea of sailing a ship underground with very little wind UP a river is ridiculous. They go down rapids many times so the ship had to come up the rapids.

Towards the end they get into a room by defeating a magical chess game. That is about the most tired trope you can imagine. J.K. Rowling used one also in the first Harry Potter book. Ugh. I remember playing online MUDS back in the 1990s and one of the stock zones was a giant chess board.

Anyway, the book might be the worst FR book I have read so far. It is pointless and dull. The characters never grow on you, and the plot is silly. If I put this book next to Azure Bonds it is like putting a paint by numbers picture on the wall near the Mona Lisa. Yes, I am exaggerating a bit but you get the idea. Avoid at all costs.



Haha I think this book isn't great, but it was far from the worst Realms book. I mean, you have read Once Around the Realms, right?!

The plot could have been epic, and the first scene is chilling with the new adventurers getting slaughtered and eaten alive by rats..while the lone survivor makes it back to the Portal only to be cut down because he doesn't pay the toll. Really an epic opening, and a massive dungeon crawl in Undermountain could have been a great book. But this was just very juvenile, and poorly done. The characters were just not so good, although for some reason I did like the skull and the gargoyle :)

It reminded me of a bad video game made into a novel, if that makes sense? Oh..that reminds me, the Baldur's Gate novels are also much worse than this book.

gylippus Posted - 16 Aug 2019 : 00:21:39
Finished reading The Mage in the Iron Mask by Brian Thomsen.

First impression: I read the title and looked at the cover and thought, "Hmmmm a book based on a moderately crappy movie inspired by Alexander Duma's characters and a french legend." But I thought that maybe, just maybe the author deviated from the movie a bit or had compelling characters that would make me care. Thus, I began reading.

The book turned out to be exactly what I thought it was. The book followed the film pretty close. The old king had twins, but he had to hide one, blah blah blah. Let me take this moment to complain. Forgotten Realms is a vast world with amazing settings and unlimited potential for characters and truly interesting plots. There are all sorts of magical items and intrigue. With that being said, why can't TSR write books with great plots? Someone in the editing office should have said, "Yea, that has been done before, come back with a better idea." To me, this just boils down to money. They decided to churn out books as fast as possible with little oversight and this is what we get.

The characters in the book are moderately annoying. Volo could have been a GREAT character. I like the idea of Volo and Passepout, but I don't like the result. First, do we have to refer to Volo as the Great Traveller constantly? Secondly, their antics never really hit the mark. It felt like the author was really trying to make them funny, but it didn't work. I never laughed out loud one time reading this book, which is odd, because it is written to be more humorous than most other FR books.

Chesslyn was a miss for me as well. A beautfiul and deadly Harper, fine, but why does she hook up with Volo?

The best character in the book is Honor. He was written well, but even he got tiring eventually.

The book also doesn't flow well. There are disjointed segments that don't fit together. At one point it says Passepout is kicked out of an Inn and walks down to the sea to find Rassendyll washed up on the shore and then faints. Awhile later Rickman reports to Selfaril and says Passepout was press ganged onto a ship and then pushed overboard. Wait? I didn't read that at all. Maybe I missed that part but I don't think so. Moving forward, Rassendyll escapes from the sewers and swims to the surface. He almost drowns but clings onto Passepout (who is unconscious) and makes it to shore. Whoever was editing that entire segment should have been fired. It makes no sense.

The book isn't as bad as Escape from Undermountain, but it was a big miss for me. Next up Crusade. Time to finish the Horselords trilogy.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 11 Aug 2019 : 16:08:10
That was one I really didn't like, particularly because of the way Halaster was depicted running Undermountain.

I don't remember much else about it, honestly...
gylippus Posted - 11 Aug 2019 : 11:47:28
Finished reading Escape from Undermountain by Mark Anthony

It is hard to believe this book was written by the same author as Curse of the Shadowmage. In all respects it is a huge step backward.

I knew I was in trouble when I picked it up and looked at the cover. The art looks like Glenn Danzig from the Misfits. I turned it over and read the back. So this entire book is in one dungeon? That does not sound promising and it isn't.

The plot is easy to sum up. A noble, Darien, hires Artek to go into a dungeon under Waterdeep called Undermountain to 'rescue' a lost lord named Corin. He has 48 hrs to rescue the lord or a magical tattoo on his arm will kill him.

The title and plot read like a themed ride from a roller coaster park and the book is about the same. It is one long dungeon crawl. That is it. Artek meets some people, they enter a room, stuff happens, they escape to the next room, repeat. That is the whole book.

Artek has a silly name and at no point does Mark Anthony really convince me of his character. Supposedley he is a famous rogue but he doesn't seem smart enough or ruthless enough. He meets up with a mage named ... wait, I already forgot her name ... wow ... I just finished reading the book last night and I forgot her name. That tells you something. Anyway, she seems just like Mari from Shadowmage. She isn't pretty but still interesting in a non-pretty way.

Stand out silliness: At one point they find a ship near an underground river. It is not just any ship, but a fully rigged schooner. They speculate pirates must have sailed the ship into a cave and up the river and then died. Okay, I am not an expert in sailing but the idea of sailing a ship underground with very little wind UP a river is ridiculous. They go down rapids many times so the ship had to come up the rapids.

Towards the end they get into a room by defeating a magical chess game. That is about the most tired trope you can imagine. J.K. Rowling used one also in the first Harry Potter book. Ugh. I remember playing online MUDS back in the 1990s and one of the stock zones was a giant chess board.

Anyway, the book might be the worst FR book I have read so far. It is pointless and dull. The characters never grow on you, and the plot is silly. If I put this book next to Azure Bonds it is like putting a paint by numbers picture on the wall near the Mona Lisa. Yes, I am exaggerating a bit but you get the idea. Avoid at all costs.
gylippus Posted - 09 Aug 2019 : 13:01:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by gylippus

This is the first book I have read by Victor Milan snip



He wrote a couple of BattleTech novels, back in the day, before they destroyed the setting with the Jihad. His books -- like many shared setting books -- were better than some of the others in the setting, and not as good as others. The main thing I remember about the books is that something just didn't quite click for me. I had no real issues with them, but for some reason, when I read them, there was something about them that I couldn't put my finger on, but that was enough to keep me from truly enjoying them. It was like there was some necessary thing that was missing.



I felt about the same way. Rather than truly enjoying the last fifty pages I found myself reading them as fast as possible just to get the book done.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 09 Aug 2019 : 03:53:52
quote:
Originally posted by gylippus

This is the first book I have read by Victor Milan snip



He wrote a couple of BattleTech novels, back in the day, before they destroyed the setting with the Jihad. His books -- like many shared setting books -- were better than some of the others in the setting, and not as good as others. The main thing I remember about the books is that something just didn't quite click for me. I had no real issues with them, but for some reason, when I read them, there was something about them that I couldn't put my finger on, but that was enough to keep me from truly enjoying them. It was like there was some necessary thing that was missing.
gylippus Posted - 08 Aug 2019 : 19:29:49
Just finished War in Tethyr

Judging from previous posts Viking and myself may be the only people who have ever read this book.

This is the first book I have read by Victor Milan and my overall judgment is that it is pretty decent, about on the same level as King Pinch. However, I found some of the writing a little uneven. There are points where the story doesn't transition as well as it should and points where the pace lags. The dialogue is fine, although the author uses a few words that I wouldn't really expect people to use that often.

The author name drops a lot of other books. He references Maztica, the Tuigan, the Avatar trilogy, and at the end there is a blurb about Alias. The characters are pretty good. Zaranda is a strong female protagonist and he characterizes her well. I found Stillhawk to be very stereotypical, but his relationship with Shield of Innocence was interesting. Shield of Innocence is a half/orc paladin. Although I found his character refreshing I wish there was a little more backstory as to why he was a paladin.

Farlorn is a bard and he is actually written as a bard. I have read about other 'bard' characters but Farlorn actually uses his skills to get into the Baron's castle. Plus, that was a laugh out loud scene when he rides up on 'Zizzy' the wonder horse.

The plot is fine. The end felt a little rushed and maybe Milan had too many irons in the fire to really do it justice. I am not sure of the book needed Nyadnar. She is a dragon that made and gave birth to a 'daughter' who is fully human and dragon. To top it off she is a new kind of dragon, a gem dragon. If the book just kept her as a young girl with extraordinary power it may be been one less thread the author had to deal with.

In the end, a decent read. So far the Nobles books have been decent to me. I wouldn't mind seeing a short story with more Zaranda and Chenowyn.
Seravin Posted - 07 Aug 2019 : 08:08:48
I really would Wooly - it is refreshing to see Ed's Chosen written in an intelligent way. And this book, more than any others, gets Thay "right"...old school Zulkir intrigue right. Heartily recommend this one.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 07 Aug 2019 : 03:01:08
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

And yet the other Nobles book, The Simbul's Gift, is probably one of the best Realms books I've ever read (and in my top 5).



I really need to go back and give that one a try. Between my dislike of some of the earlier books and a back cover blurb that failed to grab my attention, I just never got around to reading that book.

...Which is really ironic, considering that I've bought it at least twice!

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