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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Dalor Darden Posted - 17 Apr 2019 : 16:58:19
So my wife and I were watching the tv show "The Goldbergs" (which I recommend to everyone!) and an episode called "Dungeons & Dragons Anyone?" came on (for sure at least watch that one!).

It got me to thinking though: how often might Elminster have visited Earth PRIOR to visiting Ed???

Was he at Woodstock? Did he see the World Wars? The Hundred Years War? How far back does his visitation go...

And if it was way back, did he use his visits to inspire people down certain paths.

The reason I'm being silly with this is that I'm thinking of having the party go through a "reverse portal" to Earth for an adventure where they have to recover something lost through the portal.

Would this be a good point for Elminster to encounter the group for the first time as sort of a "Lets get you all home so you don't mess up Earth!" or what have you.

Does the party go to a local library to recover a tome only to discover Ed Greenwood talking to Elminster...or even later and El is in disguise handing out rulebooks for D&D?

Not sure where to go with this one...but the question remains:

How long has Elminster been visiting Earth before Ed Greenwood was alive?
25   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
sleyvas Posted - 06 May 2019 : 19:53:02
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-I really don't remember or not, but isn't it only heavily alluded but not actually downright said that the Imaskari abducted people from Earth and not actually explicitly said? Meaning there might not be Imaskari portals.



That's correct, and I personally prefer that they not be from earth. I actually prefer that given the amount of time... maybe the people from earth were instead people from that other world who used spelljamming to come to earth. I mean we have all these "UFO stories" for the Egyptians, etc... what if THAT is the truth. For that matter, combining the concept with some of the concepts of Stargate could be very interesting IF we were to discover that the Stargate isn't jumping within the same universe. The manifestations as "Goa'uld" without being "worms in a human host"... but rather avatars inhabiting a human host like happened in the ToT… and the Jaffa race of human like beings would very much fit with the Mulans as a servitor race of divine beings with an Egyptian feel.

Obviously that world isn't WITHOUT magic of some sort, because portals did work there that the Imaskari used, and I'd bet the Imaskari used magic to enslave the Mulan people. The main question may come down to what level of magical skill did they have (i.e. were they like pre-Netherese humans in the northlands). After all, we know that the Imaskari got these humans "from two different regions and two different times" on the same world. So, each gate was not only opening a portal across space. They were also opening it across time. Heck, for all we know, they could have pulled those humans from Abeir (and before you poo poo that idea, look at the Untheric gods and tell me how many of them couldn't be gods of elements or negative energy, and thus matching up to the ideas of primordials... and then look at that primordial Ubtao... etc...)
sleyvas Posted - 06 May 2019 : 19:29:37
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

Some fun questions:

a) If there's a Weave or something that allows magic to work on Earth... and I think we must assume it does as far as the game goes (per Wooly's reasoning above)... how and why have there never been any public displays of magic, accidental or otherwise? Especially after the spread of multimedia with camera phones, are all attempts to "show the world magic exists" stymied in some way?

b) Elminster never does anything without a deeper, craftier reason, so why would he promote knowledge of Abeir-Toril through a game? Are gamers more likely to be accepting or understanding of other worlds through magic portals? Or does he need/want at least a segment of the population to know?



Of course magic exists on Earth. There's this thing called "the internet" which is an advanced combination of scrying and other forms of divination, illusion, and enchantment.
Zeromaru X Posted - 06 May 2019 : 06:12:02
IIRC Earth is the least magical world in the D&D multiverse. Or, well, the least magical of the Earth-like worlds (Earth, Uerth, Aerth, Yarth and Oerth).
Lord Karsus Posted - 06 May 2019 : 05:13:46
-Also, physics work differently, hence gunpower here and smokepowder there. Magic might work, but things might work in such a way that make it dangerous to use and it's not worth delving into to attempt, or the way to do so safely has been forgotten.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 06 May 2019 : 05:09:29
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

Some fun questions:

a) If there's a Weave or something that allows magic to work on Earth... and I think we must assume it does as far as the game goes (per Wooly's reasoning above)... how and why have there never been any public displays of magic, accidental or otherwise? Especially after the spread of multimedia with camera phones, are all attempts to "show the world magic exists" stymied in some way?


My personal thinking is that either magical knowledge was lost, here, or there is someone out there who is making sure it's actively suppressed.

If it's the latter, it could be something like Rowling's Ministry of Magic, or it could be some shadowy group that keeps that knowledge for itself, or even some form of Inquisition that zealously hunts down any practitioners and then deals with the witnesses, to keep anyone else from finding out.

And if it's the former, it could be because of that Inquisition group, or because mages went into hiding and died out, or because of cycles of high magic and low, like in Shadowrun.

There's also the Dresden Files approach: Magic exists, and no one is actively hiding it -- but anyone who sees magic assumes it was something else, because hey, everyone knows magic isn't real!
Wooly Rupert Posted - 06 May 2019 : 05:05:35
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

quote:
the battle between Elminster, Dalamar, Mordenkainen, and Shaaan the Serpent Queen


What battle? Where can I find info on this?



It was one of the old Wizards Three articles in Dragon Magazine (back when it was really a print magazine, and not a handful of web articles).
The Arcanamach Posted - 05 May 2019 : 20:10:59
quote:
the battle between Elminster, Dalamar, Mordenkainen, and Shaaan the Serpent Queen


What battle? Where can I find info on this?
Eltheron Posted - 05 May 2019 : 16:40:34
Some fun questions:

a) If there's a Weave or something that allows magic to work on Earth... and I think we must assume it does as far as the game goes (per Wooly's reasoning above)... how and why have there never been any public displays of magic, accidental or otherwise? Especially after the spread of multimedia with camera phones, are all attempts to "show the world magic exists" stymied in some way?

b) Elminster never does anything without a deeper, craftier reason, so why would he promote knowledge of Abeir-Toril through a game? Are gamers more likely to be accepting or understanding of other worlds through magic portals? Or does he need/want at least a segment of the population to know?
Wooly Rupert Posted - 05 May 2019 : 15:25:10
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Any spellcaster could casually declare himself absolute god-king of Earth. There's exactly diddly-squat that anyone could do against high level wizards.

Basically, this is a can of worms that nobody needs to open. Manshoon could declare himself God-Emperor and barring PIS, there is nothing anyone could do to stop the teleporting, mind-reading psycho who could be anywhere on the planet, listening in on your private conversations while chilling and enjoying a pina colada while disguised as the President of the United States.



Ah, but who's to say that there aren't people here to prevent exactly that sort of thing from happening?



Would it also be reasonable to assume Earth does not have a Weave like Toril? Spellcasting would be far more difficult and presumably far riskier to the caster. Earth building that have been remodeled over the centuries would be death traps when teleporting with 500 year old outdated memories.




It may or may not have a Weave, but given the battle between Elminster, Dalamar, Mordenkainen, and Shaaan the Serpent Queen -- as well as visits by other Realms mages -- we can assume that magic is functionally similar.

Remember, the Weave is basically just a power grid. Your house and my house might be wired different, but take a lamp from one, and it'll function the same in the other.
Lord Karsus Posted - 05 May 2019 : 07:45:38
-I really don't remember or not, but isn't it only heavily alluded but not actually downright said that the Imaskari abducted people from Earth and not actually explicitly said? Meaning there might not be Imaskari portals.
Delnyn Posted - 05 May 2019 : 01:12:47
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Any spellcaster could casually declare himself absolute god-king of Earth. There's exactly diddly-squat that anyone could do against high level wizards.

Basically, this is a can of worms that nobody needs to open. Manshoon could declare himself God-Emperor and barring PIS, there is nothing anyone could do to stop the teleporting, mind-reading psycho who could be anywhere on the planet, listening in on your private conversations while chilling and enjoying a pina colada while disguised as the President of the United States.



Ah, but who's to say that there aren't people here to prevent exactly that sort of thing from happening?



Would it also be reasonable to assume Earth does not have a Weave like Toril? Spellcasting would be far more difficult and presumably far riskier to the caster. Earth building that have been remodeled over the centuries would be death traps when teleporting with 500 year old outdated memories.
Delnyn Posted - 05 May 2019 : 01:02:08
Perhaps there are still Imaskari portals connecting to what is now Egypt and Iraq. When the Imaskari wizards abducted the Mulan people, I would expect the grabbed Mulhorandi, Untheric and Chessentan people from these areas.
BrennonGoldeye Posted - 30 Apr 2019 : 22:08:05
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-It was someone who posted here too.



Indeed, lol
Lord Karsus Posted - 30 Apr 2019 : 21:01:06
-It was someone who posted here too.
sleyvas Posted - 28 Apr 2019 : 14:31:18
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-I remember I brought this up years ago at the WotC boards in relation to the coming 4e time jump and the weirdness it would cause regarding the portals/connections to Earth and someone reported me and tried to get me banned for threatening Ed Greenwood. Good times, lol.



Sheesh... all you wanted to do was warn El so that he could make an adjustment to appear at the right coordinates in the time/space continuum. Some people.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 28 Apr 2019 : 05:21:04
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-I remember I brought this up years ago at the WotC boards in relation to the coming 4e time jump and the weirdness it would cause regarding the portals/connections to Earth and someone reported me and tried to get me banned for threatening Ed Greenwood. Good times, lol.



I do not miss those forums at all.
Lord Karsus Posted - 28 Apr 2019 : 01:56:57
-I remember I brought this up years ago at the WotC boards in relation to the coming 4e time jump and the weirdness it would cause regarding the portals/connections to Earth and someone reported me and tried to get me banned for threatening Ed Greenwood. Good times, lol.
moonbeast Posted - 21 Apr 2019 : 22:47:17
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Any spellcaster could casually declare himself absolute god-king of Earth. There's exactly diddly-squat that anyone could do against high level wizards.

Basically, this is a can of worms that nobody needs to open. Manshoon could declare himself God-Emperor and barring PIS, there is nothing anyone could do to stop the teleporting, mind-reading psycho who could be anywhere on the planet, listening in on your private conversations while chilling and enjoying a pina colada while disguised as the President of the United States.


But Doctor Who would stop him dead in his tracks.
sleyvas Posted - 21 Apr 2019 : 16:06:10
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Any spellcaster could casually declare himself absolute god-king of Earth. There's exactly diddly-squat that anyone could do against high level wizards.

Basically, this is a can of worms that nobody needs to open. Manshoon could declare himself God-Emperor and barring PIS, there is nothing anyone could do to stop the teleporting, mind-reading psycho who could be anywhere on the planet, listening in on your private conversations while chilling and enjoying a pina colada while disguised as the President of the United States.



Ah, but who's to say that there aren't people here to prevent exactly that sort of thing from happening?



Yeah, are you saying I'm lazy and not doing my jo.... I mean, um, yes, yes, you're right, that's very scary. I mean he could be the president... or the pope... I mean he's probably Vladimir Putin himself.
sleyvas Posted - 21 Apr 2019 : 16:01:59
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

So my wife and I were watching the tv show "The Goldbergs" (which I recommend to everyone!) and an episode called "Dungeons & Dragons Anyone?" came on (for sure at least watch that one!).

It got me to thinking though: how often might Elminster have visited Earth PRIOR to visiting Ed???

Was he at Woodstock? Did he see the World Wars? The Hundred Years War? How far back does his visitation go...

And if it was way back, did he use his visits to inspire people down certain paths.



I sure hope Elminster was always mindful of the "Prime Directive" hehehe.

P.S. D&D's canonical Baba Yaga is also a time traveller. But she was apparently a meddler in Earth history. In the old Dragon Magazine article adventure devoted to her, Baba's Hut is spacious inside (like a dimensional pocket with vast amount of space), and she has a museum that contains a Soviet tank, among other "trophies" she collected from the past.



So... Baba Yaga is a time traveler... who uses a transportive device that's larger on the inside than the outside.... could it be that one of the reincarnations of Doctor Wh... no don't even think it …..
Wooly Rupert Posted - 21 Apr 2019 : 15:02:04
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Any spellcaster could casually declare himself absolute god-king of Earth. There's exactly diddly-squat that anyone could do against high level wizards.

Basically, this is a can of worms that nobody needs to open. Manshoon could declare himself God-Emperor and barring PIS, there is nothing anyone could do to stop the teleporting, mind-reading psycho who could be anywhere on the planet, listening in on your private conversations while chilling and enjoying a pina colada while disguised as the President of the United States.



Ah, but who's to say that there aren't people here to prevent exactly that sort of thing from happening?
LordofBones Posted - 21 Apr 2019 : 14:24:47
Any spellcaster could casually declare himself absolute god-king of Earth. There's exactly diddly-squat that anyone could do against high level wizards.

Basically, this is a can of worms that nobody needs to open. Manshoon could declare himself God-Emperor and barring PIS, there is nothing anyone could do to stop the teleporting, mind-reading psycho who could be anywhere on the planet, listening in on your private conversations while chilling and enjoying a pina colada while disguised as the President of the United States.
The Arcanamach Posted - 21 Apr 2019 : 13:43:54
Posted by Rymac:

quote:
My 1st thought was, so Manshoon hid a clone here as well. And Azoun IV may have visited Earth in his ne'er do well youth.


Now THIS I like. The idea that Azoun had a love-child on Earth brings up all sorts of cool possibilities. I wonder if he was at Woodstock?

Manshoon stashing a clone here raises the question as to why he didn't port over any tech to the Realms. Imagine the Zhentarim with modern firearms at their disposal.
Rymac Posted - 21 Apr 2019 : 03:13:05
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

According to Realmspace, he has a portal keyed to Yellowstone National Park, in 1894.

On a related note, I recently asked Ed if anyone from the Realms had gone to Earth and stayed there -- after all, we know of multiple wizards that have gone to Ed's place, or to TSR headquarters. I also asked if any dragons had journeyed to Earth.

Ed's response was that there was a big NDA in place, there.



My 1st thought was, so Manshoon hid a clone here as well. And Azoun IV may have visited Earth in his ne'er do well youth.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 20 Apr 2019 : 17:05:41
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

So my wife and I were watching the tv show "The Goldbergs" (which I recommend to everyone!) and an episode called "Dungeons & Dragons Anyone?" came on (for sure at least watch that one!).

It got me to thinking though: how often might Elminster have visited Earth PRIOR to visiting Ed???

Was he at Woodstock? Did he see the World Wars? The Hundred Years War? How far back does his visitation go...

And if it was way back, did he use his visits to inspire people down certain paths.



I sure hope Elminster was always mindful of the "Prime Directive" hehehe.

P.S. D&D's canonical Baba Yaga is also a time traveller. But she was apparently a meddler in Earth history. In the old Dragon Magazine article adventure devoted to her, Baba's Hut is spacious inside (like a dimensional pocket with vast amount of space), and she has a museum that contains a Soviet tank, among other "trophies" she collected from the past.







Baba Yaga has shown up in a lot of RPG settings. She's a fourth-generation Nosferatu in the old Vampire: The Masquerade game; there are some scary D&D versions of her (depending on edition); in Pathfinder, she conquered one of the northern nations in a matter of days *and* is the mother of the historical Rasputin; and the Iron Kingdoms even has a version of her -- though they just call her the Old Witch and make her a powerful warcaster.

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