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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Man-of-Fur Posted - 14 Feb 2017 : 21:16:05
Just wondering how many members of Candlekeep have heard of the Forgotten Realms Archives facebook group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheForgottenRealmsArchives/

We have quite a few authors as part of out almost 6000 members. I was just curious as Candlekeep is the benchmark for Realms lore, and any support the facebook group could get from here, and vica verse, would be awesome.
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
CorellonsDevout Posted - 26 Oct 2018 : 03:20:58
Fair enough. Negative experiences are bound to happen from time to time in such groups (nature of the internet). I think sometimes the line of what is opinion and what is bashing gets blurred, and people...react, if that makes sense. Not advocating for either side here, just trying to give perspective. Sorry you had a bad experience.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 26 Oct 2018 : 02:52:26
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

The group just doesn't allow for direct bashing of said character or author, which I think is fair enough.


It is fair enough... But I didn't bash a character or author. I said that I felt the WotSQ books were overhyped and that I had a lot of issues with them -- and then I listed my issues. I didn't do a "hur, this sux!" -- I spoke of issues with shifting characterizations, of issues with the group dynamic of the main characters, why I felt Lolth's overall plot and its end result did not make sense... I gave specific reasons, and several of them -- the same stuff I've said here -- and my posts were removed and I was temporarily banned. And it was without any kind of warning.

I can't speak to the experiences of others. Yes, I have heard of others that have had negative experiences -- but I've not witnessed those things myself, and having 10,000 members does rather strongly imply that those folks with the bad experiences, and myself, are in a minority.

All I can say is that I had a bad experience, and since it's not the first time I've encountered heavy-handed moderation someplace, I decided it was best to just walk away.

Honestly, such experiences are why I try to keep my own moderation to a minimum. Between one mod on the WotC forums and another on the HMP forums, I saw enough to get a good idea of what not to do.
CorellonsDevout Posted - 26 Oct 2018 : 00:48:49
I've been a member of Candlekeep for several years now (though I am not as active as I used to be). But I am also on the FRA. The group allows people to express their differing opinions. It's okay to not like a book or character. The group just doesn't allow for direct bashing of said character or author, which I think is fair enough. There are works I don't like, and I've said as much, and given my reasons for why.

CandleKeep feels more scholarly at times (as these halls tend to attract more scholarly types). The FRA has a broader base, from casual fans who are just getting started, to long time fans (not saying there aren't newcomers here, as well, just pointing out the differences I have noted). I don't think we should be comparing one to the other, though. Both are for Realms fans, and both have their pros and cons. I've enjoyed my time on both.
GoForTheEyes Posted - 25 Oct 2018 : 22:02:04
quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber

I would add that considering there seem to be a number of these incidents affecting multiple people, there ought to be a public post in the group apologizing for the abuse of moderating powers, and outlining a new policy that explicitly details what are and are not acceptable reasons for deleting posts or banning members, and what members can do if they feel they've been treated unfairly.

It's honestly still mind-boggling to me that I had to go directly to RAS to pressure you guys into overturning a ban you had no justification for in the first place. I still browse the group, but that incident definitely soured me on participating in a place where that sort of thing could happen to anyone at anytime.



This is a good thought, but I don't think actually doing it is a good idea, because most if not all of the marginalized people won't be able to see it, since they're either out of the group or not paying attention. In fact, I would only see more harm than good, to the marginalized people I mean, because what's most likely to happen is that people who are unaware of the issues will speak up and invalidate the experiences of those who have been treated unfairly. This will in turn provide validation to the group admins to keep doing what they've been doing, which they really don't need additional validation for. Just my two cents.
Bragi Posted - 25 Oct 2018 : 21:56:22
quote:
That all being said, if they banned Wooly of all people... something's not right there... I don't think I've ever seen a mod more friendly except maybe Sage... which, btw, anyone seen Sage lately?



I joined yesterday after reading about their member prizes. I created a post and Steven Schend liked it so I was irrationally excited about that! It looks like they have a fair amount of author participation. I much prefer having Candlekeep as a archive and forum to refer back to. Trying to find something on Facebook is a struggle. I'm not planning on posting any unfavorable opinions or critical analysis over there. It may be better suited for discussions with the authors of which the relevant parts can then be used here. That's my initial impression.
sleyvas Posted - 25 Oct 2018 : 21:20:03
I'll say rereading this, I definitely am not interested. I'm cantankerous and opinionated at times, but I feel that everyone should be able to say what they feel. Sometimes I've found that hearing someone with the exact opposite viewpoint from me has actually made me rethink some of the things that I was thinking about. Markustay was good at that for me, and I miss him for throwing rough ideas against lately. George seems to be pretty good for that as well, as his responses seem well thought through, but he's less rambling like me and Markustay and more succinct. Even though me and Dazzlerdal seem to be going in different directions on a lot of topics too (especially surrounding gods), reading his concepts often opens up other avenues for myself that I'd never even considered (and when we're both going in the same direction, I think we develop some really good stuff... I still love some of the stuff we were talking about with spirits in the unapproachable east in the past). You can have a different opinion from someone else and still enjoy their viewpoint or even glean ideas from them.


That all being said, if they banned Wooly of all people... something's not right there... I don't think I've ever seen a mod more friendly except maybe Sage... which, btw, anyone seen Sage lately?
CylverSaber Posted - 25 Oct 2018 : 21:01:50
I would add that considering there seem to be a number of these incidents affecting multiple people, there ought to be a public post in the group apologizing for the abuse of moderating powers, and outlining a new policy that explicitly details what are and are not acceptable reasons for deleting posts or banning members, and what members can do if they feel they've been treated unfairly.

It's honestly still mind-boggling to me that I had to go directly to RAS to pressure you guys into overturning a ban you had no justification for in the first place. I still browse the group, but that incident definitely soured me on participating in a place where that sort of thing could happen to anyone at anytime.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 25 Oct 2018 : 19:42:53
quote:
Originally posted by Man-of-Fur

I feel pretty awful after reading this thread. Is there anything I can do Wooly to make ammends. I tried in vain to find the thread in question.



The offer is appreciated, but once bitten, twice shy -- I'm not going to return, at least not at this time.

If you truly want to improve things, though, then make sure my experience isn't repeated. Give warnings before bans. Look and see if a post is really bashing, as you yourself accused me of, or if it's just a negative opinion addressing very specific and explicitly described issues. Don't ignore people that message you for clarification on your actions, and certainly don't -- as I'm told you did -- go bash the newly-banned person in discussion with other moderators. (Note: my last point here is what I was told happened, by a third party; it is the only thing I didn't directly experience firsthand).

Just show some restraint and some respect. Give people a chance and try to work with them. Don't treat others like you treated me.

If you can promise me that and follow through on it, I will consider the matter rectified and amends to have been made.
TBeholder Posted - 25 Oct 2018 : 17:29:30
quote:
Originally posted by GoForTheEyes

Mike told them that FRA doesn't allow promotions from groups "in direct competition" with the FRA. AFAIK Facebook doesn't limit how many groups a person can be in, so this seems really stupid.

Not surprising. There's a sort of, uh, folks, who think if you use whichever thing let them ride in the driver's cabin (more often than not, just by worming their way in), you are their peon for life and they get to thought-police what you do anywhere, etc.
See also the "Code of Conduct" scandals, etc. It's a smell of rot.
Man-of-Fur Posted - 25 Oct 2018 : 13:47:26
I feel pretty awful after reading this thread. Is there anything I can do Wooly to make ammends. I tried in vain to find the thread in question.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 00:53:51
It likely didn't help that a lot of people really, really like the War of the Spider Queen books. A lot of people in that discussion were saying how awesome the books were and how they were some of the best books of the Realms, and then I come in and call them over-hyped, underwhelming, and then start providing reasons why I feel that way.

I've actually been much slower to share my dislike of certain very popular novels, because I know I'm in a minority on them. More than one popular series, I held my tongue on for a year or more after reading them, because I didn't like them.

That's also why I tend to post a disclaimer when someone says they're going to go with my recommendation on something they've not yet read. I do like it when people like books that I've liked, obviously, but given that I've thoroughly disliked some popular stuff, it's obvious my opinions aren't always inline with the mainstream, here.

My friend Callmegene and I have similar tastes in books, and we've inflicted a lot of books on each other, over the years -- but even he and I disagree on books more often than some might expect.
Seravin Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 00:42:10
That's awful Wooly---your opinions are always courteous even when you really, really dislike something. You're like the nicest person. So odd. I think some mods really like some series there and if you bash them (validly and politely even) you risk a ban!
Wooly Rupert Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 00:41:09
I've heard a couple of other complaints about the group from people here, but this was my first bad experience with the group. I mainly lurked, there, because I didn't see a lot of conversations I felt like participating in.

I think that most of my contributions to the group were recommendations for Elaine's books, and those of Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb.
GoForTheEyes Posted - 03 Apr 2018 : 00:14:45
Long time lurker, figured I'd finally register and chime in, since things with this Facebook group seem to be growing increasingly ridiculous. I'm a member of the FRA as well as other FR groups on Facebook. Some of the mods of the other Facebook groups are friends of mine. I've heard from them that Mike Furman, not sure if he owns the group but he's clearly the one who calls the shots, has been cracking down on them for sharing their FR groups in the FRA. They've gotten muted or banned from the FRA for doing so, and when they asked why, Mike told them that FRA doesn't allow promotions from groups "in direct competition" with the FRA. AFAIK Facebook doesn't limit how many groups a person can be in, so this seems really stupid. Maybe there's a limit but I've seen people in over a thousand groups so if that limit exists, it's gotta be pretty high. Another friend got grief from Mike for sharing an article that the FRA had copied and pasted directly from the Wiki. Mike acted like the FRA people had written it when all they did was literally copy and paste it from the Wiki and remove the citations and told him to give FRA credit for the article. Since then I've noticed that FRA spotlights have included a line claiming credit for the articles' contents.
CylverSaber Posted - 02 Apr 2018 : 20:06:14
I'm there mainly because my favorite authors (like Elaine) are there. The mods do seem to respect the opinions of the authors, but the authors probably generally aren't aware when there's a problem like this. I would think most authors would want them not to be so heavy-handed with fans,so maybe if the authors speak to the mods privately it could help. The group is a good idea, at least in theory.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 02 Apr 2018 : 18:50:59
The mod who did it didn't even give the courtesy of a warning.

My opinion was, admittedly, rather negative -- but it was same things I've said here, about the War of the Spider Queen books. I've issues with the shifting character personalities, Lolth's plot making her more powerful when it should have weakened her, the characters demonstrating perfectly how to be Chaotic Stupid, and I found the overall story to be rather uninteresting.

And I cited all of those things. Maybe it's just me, but I don't consider it bashing when someone can give specific complaints, as opposed to the "this thing I dislike is stupid and so is anyone that likes it" shtick seen so many times online. But that was the specific charge from the moderator.

I'm rather curious about the guy who was trying to troll me by posting insulting gifs -- I'd like to know if he was given a 24 hour ban, as well. Unfortunately, I think all of his gifs were responses to one of my deleted comments, and I removed myself from the group, so there's no going back to check.

The whole thing obviously irritated me enough to post about it and remove myself from the group, but I'm over it now -- like I said, it makes it easier to spend less time on Facebook. I've had far more irritating things happen, in my online journeys.
ElaineCunningham Posted - 02 Apr 2018 : 17:50:05
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Just got a ban, myself. Apparently, offering a negative opinion citing specific issues on a series, when an opinion was requested, is violating the rules. Not only was I given the 24 hour ban, my comments were deleted.

So I left the group. I was already annoyed, today, because someone was trying to troll me for having a dissenting opinion. Now one of the group mods does the same thing.

I've been trying to spend less time on Facebook, of late; me removing myself from that group just makes it easier.




Okay, this pisses me off.

Woolie, I've been reading your posts online for years, and I have never seen anything that warranted that sort of action. Sure, you like some series better than others, but who doesn't? While I applaud the moderators' goal of keeping the site user-friendly for all, this isn't the way to do it.



Caolin Posted - 02 Apr 2018 : 17:49:27
Yeah, I'm not going anywhere near anything related to Facebook. Not sure why they all don't come here to Candlekeep?
Wooly Rupert Posted - 01 Apr 2018 : 01:59:09
quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber

I am a member, but just got a 24 hour ban for having posted a link to information *on the publisher's own site* about the new Drizzt book being released. There's really no excuse for that kind of administrator behavior; even if the admins somehow think they are serving the author's interests (and one would have to question why a fan group feels that's their place), it is completely bizarre and irrational when the information is coming directly from the publisher. Shame on you guys.



Just got a ban, myself. Apparently, offering a negative opinion citing specific issues on a series, when an opinion was requested, is violating the rules. Not only was I given the 24 hour ban, my comments were deleted.

So I left the group. I was already annoyed, today, because someone was trying to troll me for having a dissenting opinion. Now one of the group mods does the same thing.

I've been trying to spend less time on Facebook, of late; me removing myself from that group just makes it easier.
Man-of-Fur Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 17:39:15
Huzzah!
CylverSaber Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 17:31:32
Yes, I'm unbanned now. We'll move past this and focus on shared love of the Realms. Here's to more novels and more authors!
Man-of-Fur Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 17:29:19
Check again, and we are sorry for any strife caused by this situation.
CylverSaber Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 16:50:53
As far as I can see, I'm still banned.
Man-of-Fur Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 16:43:51
Now that R.A. Salvatore has confirmed the rumors of a new Drizzt novel being released, the Office Team of the Forgotten Realms Archives is now going to allow discussion of the topic. The reason post were deleted and members were muted is because we did not want to deliver false hope to our membership until the news was confirmed by reliable sources. We are all very happy to share in this news! The Forgotten Realms is alive and well!
Dalor Darden Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 15:51:23
I'm a member, but no longer use Facebook.

I've found that FB is a drain on my ability to create. In fact, I've enjoyed a great deal more being back here at Candlekeep as opposed to being on FB.
CylverSaber Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 03:04:42
The thing is, I like the group, and a lot of authors participate, which is a great thing. But there's just no rational reason for this. Even on Salvatore's official forum, there are multiple threads discussing the news, so why is a fan group trying to suppress it? When they've deleted people's posts on the subject, I just shrugged and thought "Oh well, it's their group, they decide" but a banning over posting a link to the publisher's site is really a bridge too far. I hope this was something done by just one overzealous moderator.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 02:30:36
I'm a member of the group, but nothing I've seen thus far has really grabbed my attention.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 02:29:38
quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber

I am a member, but just got a 24 hour ban for having posted a link to information *on the publisher's own site* about the new Drizzt book being released. There's really no excuse for that kind of administrator behavior; even if the admins somehow think they are serving the author's interests (and one would have to question why a fan group feels that's their place), it is completely bizarre and irrational when the information is coming directly from the publisher. Shame on you guys.



That is ridiculous.
CylverSaber Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 01:53:39
I am a member, but just got a 24 hour ban for having posted a link to information *on the publisher's own site* about the new Drizzt book being released. There's really no excuse for that kind of administrator behavior; even if the admins somehow think they are serving the author's interests (and one would have to question why a fan group feels that's their place), it is completely bizarre and irrational when the information is coming directly from the publisher. Shame on you guys.
RDS Posted - 02 Jun 2017 : 15:58:04
Been a member for a while but I haven't posted on it.

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