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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Zeromaru X Posted - 02 Jun 2018 : 02:54:16
The new adventure has been unveiled. Is going to be in Waterdeep (because we sure love the Sword Coast)

http://m.ign.com/articles/2018/06/01/dungeons-and-dragons-newest-storyline-waterdeep-dragon-heist-revealed

Mod edit: Renaming this scroll.
25   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
RealmProtector Posted - 21 Oct 2018 : 10:55:13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Maybe it's just me, but I think you can't properly judge the material if you're not reading it.



I never said I didn't read it, I have friends who have loaned me books, I've also stopped by Barnes and Noble to read, have read reviews and content online, read alot of the current history on the FR app. browesed through this very book (Dragonheist) at my local Cool Stuff...

Mabey it's just me but you should not assume (as we know what that makes) without knowing all the facts.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 21 Oct 2018 : 02:36:20
Maybe it's just me, but I think you can't properly judge the material if you're not reading it.
RealmProtector Posted - 20 Oct 2018 : 21:51:25
quote:


This book like all others post spellplague feels manufactured for retail value vs the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ed Realms. Pre Spellplague it felt like a living breathing world with real environs ann residents, especially pre ToT. After this disapointment, I can't see ever spending any more money on "new Realms'. For me, it would take a hard rebbot back to pre spellplague and the return to Lore centric books of previous editions.




I'm a Forgotten Realms gamer from way back to first edition, when 3.0/3.5 came out I was doing news stories reviews and interviews for GamingReport.com. I completely agree, I love the old realms the books are fantastic! I have yet to buy anything post 3.5, Ed's Realms remain by far the best. Though there were plenty of folk who added amazing people and details to the realms. I miss the old TSR/WOTC team. Sadly I doubt they will ever Reboot back to pre spellcr** and all those folks are off to new persuits anyway...sigh....sadness
sleyvas Posted - 19 Oct 2018 : 13:35:42
I haven't even begun to read mine, but I did flip through real quick to look at the artistry. I was glad to see the pictures of the coins as well as the heraldic device of Waterdeep (granted, on the heraldic device, I've seen it elsewhere several times). I will also state that the style of the pictures that are more human like were appealing to me, the dwarves all looked a bit odd mind you. I was also caught off guard for just a second when I saw the submarine, thinking for a second that an iconic spelljammer was in the adventure.... and my first thought was "we need to put a helm on that thing".
Wooly Rupert Posted - 19 Oct 2018 : 04:03:11
Despite my complaints, I don't think this book is a bad one -- it just needs a little more polish. There are some good ideas; the designers (or whoever was dictating to them) should have made a few better choices. So far, I've liked what I've read -- I just would have gone with some different NPCs and given them better names. The adventure itself seems pretty solid, to me.

I bought the book from the Amazon, so I didn't pay cover price. And while I'm not going to be effusive in my praise, I am satisfied with my purchase, and I'd encourage people to take some time to flip through the book and read a few bits.
Sunderstone Posted - 19 Oct 2018 : 03:23:46
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I get all that... But it doesn't change the fact that when the name Cassalanter is mentioned, Caladorn is the one I think of -- and he'd be ashamed of his name if he knew his family was like that.




He does knows
Read entries A4 and A4A on page 128 of Dragon heist



I've not gotten that far into it, yet.

I was also bothered by something in Manshoon's description. He lost an arm and had to go for an artificial replacement... that seems to be purely mechanical. A high-level wizard, with an artificial limb, has not enchanted that limb in any way -- not even something as simple as a built-in touch spell usable once a day. That bothered me.

I was also not cool with the way he uses his simulacrum spell. Rather than a backup or something like that, it's simply a way for him to be in two places at once.

While that is a nifty idea, this is Manshoon, we're talking about; this version is explicitly stated as a Manshoon clone that survived the Manshoon Wars. I can't see Manshoon, of all people, making such a prosaic use of the spell.

As I commented a few days ago, if they had made a new character for that particular villainous role in the adventure, then that new character would be lacking a lot of baggage and thus work better for the adventure.

At least, this is all my opinion.



This book like all others post spellplague feels manufactured for retail value vs the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ed Realms. Pre Spellplague it felt like a living breathing world with real environs ann residents, especially pre ToT. After this disapointment, I can't see ever spending any more money on "new Realms'. For me, it would take a hard rebbot back to pre spellplague and the return to Lore centric books of previous editions.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 17 Oct 2018 : 13:26:04
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I get all that... But it doesn't change the fact that when the name Cassalanter is mentioned, Caladorn is the one I think of -- and he'd be ashamed of his name if he knew his family was like that.




He does knows
Read entries A4 and A4A on page 128 of Dragon heist



I've not gotten that far into it, yet.

I was also bothered by something in Manshoon's description. He lost an arm and had to go for an artificial replacement... that seems to be purely mechanical. A high-level wizard, with an artificial limb, has not enchanted that limb in any way -- not even something as simple as a built-in touch spell usable once a day. That bothered me.

I was also not cool with the way he uses his simulacrum spell. Rather than a backup or something like that, it's simply a way for him to be in two places at once.

While that is a nifty idea, this is Manshoon, we're talking about; this version is explicitly stated as a Manshoon clone that survived the Manshoon Wars. I can't see Manshoon, of all people, making such a prosaic use of the spell.

As I commented a few days ago, if they had made a new character for that particular villainous role in the adventure, then that new character would be lacking a lot of baggage and thus work better for the adventure.

At least, this is all my opinion.
Dargoth Posted - 17 Oct 2018 : 12:10:43
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I get all that... But it doesn't change the fact that when the name Cassalanter is mentioned, Caladorn is the one I think of -- and he'd be ashamed of his name if he knew his family was like that.




He does knows
Read entries A4 and A4A on page 128 of Dragon heist
Wooly Rupert Posted - 17 Oct 2018 : 09:43:38
I get all that... But it doesn't change the fact that when the name Cassalanter is mentioned, Caladorn is the one I think of -- and he'd be ashamed of his name if he knew his family was like that.

There is also the fact that according to the old web enhancement on Waterdeep's noble houses, the Cassalanters' predominant alignments were CG, NG, CN, N, and their favored deity was Waukeen.

Like I said, the simple expedient of choosing just about any other noble family would have avoided those issues.
Dargoth Posted - 17 Oct 2018 : 05:17:45
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


And the last reason I don't like the Cassalanters for this is because of Caladorn Cassalanter, from the pre-Spellplague era. Caladorn was a good and truly noble sort. While I recognize that it's been 100 years and families can have oddball members, I just don't like the idea that his family could go that particular route. Just about any other noble family, with a less convoluted goal, would work better for me.




Caladorn was not the only Cassalanter in 3ed era Waterdeep and Myna Cassalanter was NE.

Interestly theres also a devil tie to the Casssalanter family through Caladorn. Caladorn was once romanticly involved with Lucia Tione (See Elf Song by Elaine Cunningham) Lucia would go back to Tethyr where she would marry one of the Leaders of the Knights of the Shield who served the deity Gargauth a former Arch Devil who would later be trapped insaid Shield and loose his divinity during the Spellplague and one of Gargauths few allies was Asmodeous...

It wouldnt suprise me in the least if Lucia spent a fair bit of time corrupting members of the Cassalanter family because Caladorn "spurned her" in Elf Song......
Dargoth Posted - 14 Oct 2018 : 00:02:58
There are a number of interesting DMsguild titles that I might get to supplement Dragon Heist so far the following have drawn my eye.

Options for Trollskull Manor (Includes 16 upgrades to the Tavern,40 random events that can happan in the Tavern while the adventurers ar away and a map of the Tavern interior)

Down and out in Waterdeep (a 0 level adventure set in the Fields district of Waterdeep)

Waterdeep Encounters (100 short encounters)

Yearning to be free (A 5-15 level module revolving around Tielfing persecution in Waterdeep and the north, theres also Primer for introducing the factions in Ytbf during Dragon Heist)

The Various: Backgrounds of Faerun's
Zeromaru X Posted - 13 Oct 2018 : 20:35:26
Well. I don't have the adventure. I don't have any 5e adventure, actually, cuz they are a little bit expensive. But they are selling the Enchiridion separately in DM's Guild. That's how I got it.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 13 Oct 2018 : 18:37:15
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Wait, the Cassalanters want to buy the soul of their children with money? That's really stupid. I can see Asmodeus facepalming right now.


Yeah, I'd not really looked at it from that angle, considering that it's a goofy premise to begin with.

It is my opinion that Asmodeus is a very poor fit for the Realms, even disregarding the fact that the 4E designers ignored their own reasoning when they crudely shoehorned him in. I tend to dismiss just about anything I see pertaining to Asmodeus, in the Realms, because of those two things.

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

So far, the only thing I like about this adventure is Volo's Enchiridion...



I've not gotten to that part, yet.

But while I'm not gushing about this adventure, I don't dislike it, either. I think there's some good stuff, there -- it's just that there are some necessary changes to bring it out.

The Eltorchuls, for example, would have been a better choice for the evil nobles, in my opinion (assuming they're still around in 4E). And they could be wanting the money to shore up their finances and maybe fund their efforts to bring down another family. Or maybe they want a larger share of the crime in Skullport, and that's the intended use for the money.

Or its the members of one of the fallen noble families, wanting to buy their way back into Waterdhavian nobility.

Instead of Jarlaxle, how about the Knights of the Shield? They want the money for all sorts of shenanigans directed against Waterdeep and its Lords.

And instead of Manshoon, make a new Zhent villain, one without all the baggage Manshoon brings with him. Our new Zhent could be an evil bard, for example, and would be intending to use the money to either kill a couple of Lords and replace them with someone Zhent-friendly, or to get a Lord or two in their pocket (likely through blackmail of some sort).

Make those background changes, rename some of the NPCs, and you've got a solid adventure here. If I was DM'ing in the Realms, I'd make enough background changes to fit it into my 1375ish, non-Plagued Waterdeep, and I'd then run the adventure.
Zeromaru X Posted - 13 Oct 2018 : 18:15:16
Wait, the Cassalanters want to buy the soul of their children with money? That's really stupid. I can see Asmodeus facepalming right now.

So far, the only thing I like about this adventure is Volo's Enchiridion...
Wooly Rupert Posted - 13 Oct 2018 : 06:33:53
Reading more of this adventure...

I like the angle of "pick your villain."

I don't understand why they decided to do the seasonal thing, though -- and I only like one of the villains.

Your choices are:

Xanathar
The Cassalanter noble family
Jarlaxle
Manshoon

I don't like the Cassalanters for three reasons. One, they're Asmodeus worshippers -- and Asmodeus has no place in my Realms, especially since he was part of the 4E thing of "There's too many deities, so we're culling them and adding some more!" Two, they sold their children's souls and want to buy them back. This is an odd one, to me. It's too convoluted. Trying to buy back their own souls? That works. Trying to buy their way out of some other bad situation, not involving souls at all? This also works. But selling your kids' souls and then trying to buy them back is just an odd concept. And the last reason I don't like the Cassalanters for this is because of Caladorn Cassalanter, from the pre-Spellplague era. Caladorn was a good and truly noble sort. While I recognize that it's been 100 years and families can have oddball members, I just don't like the idea that his family could go that particular route. Just about any other noble family, with a less convoluted goal, would work better for me.

Jarlaxle's goal is more reasonable, and he's long been my fave character from that particular author, but I feel as if he was included in this adventure simply because of WotC's "Gotta have drow!" shtick.

Manshoon's inclusion also feels gratuitous, and his plot -- "I'm gonna use this money to buy Laeral's spot as the Open Lord!" seems both out of character and rather foolish. Manshoon is too intelligent, I think, to truly believe he could buy the rulership of Waterdeep, and I'm not convinced that he'd want to paint that particular bullseye upon his back. Getting a Lord or two in his pocket and being a power behind the throne, yes, that I could see. His stated plot? Nope, not happening.

So that leaves Xanathar. I can see anyone with that title wanting to kick a rival out of the city, and the Xanathar Guild has long been an established presence in the city.

I'm also not a fan of the "nimblewright detector" part of the plot, especially since it can detect the nimblewrights that Jarlaxle inexplicably has. Plus, it looks stupid. I'd've made it some smaller device, and keyed it specifically to the nimblewright that Nim built -- maybe it contains a twin to a vital component of that second nimblewright, or something like that. (Also, a nimblewright named Nim? What's next, a gnome named Gno? Some of the names used in this adventure are decent fantasy names -- and others are simply painful)
Delwa Posted - 13 Oct 2018 : 02:46:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

So as I'm reading thru this book, I decide to check to see what the current description of the Dragonstaff of Ahghairon is; I was mainly interested in how it passed from Maaril to a gold dragon.

And it says in the write-up for the gold dragon that the staff was passed to him by Maaril. Dagult Neverember later cut a deal with the dragon, saying that if he guarded the latter's vault, then the dragon could keep the Dragonstaff.

Think on this. A human dude says to an adult gold dragon, "You can keep this powerful magical item that you already have in your possession if you agree to be my guard dog" -- and the dragon agreed.

Is it just me, or is that utterly preposterous? What could Dagult have done if the dragon told him where to stick it?




Maybe the Dragon just was so overwhelmed with the dumb that he had to see it through just for its own amusement? Mabye?
Wooly Rupert Posted - 13 Oct 2018 : 02:44:23
So as I'm reading thru this book, I decide to check to see what the current description of the Dragonstaff of Ahghairon is; I was mainly interested in how it passed from Maaril to a gold dragon.

And it says in the write-up for the gold dragon that the staff was passed to him by Maaril. Dagult Neverember later cut a deal with the dragon, saying that if he guarded the latter's vault, then the dragon could keep the Dragonstaff.

Think on this. A human dude says to an adult gold dragon, "You can keep this powerful magical item that you already have in your possession if you agree to be my guard dog" -- and the dragon agreed.

Is it just me, or is that utterly preposterous? What could Dagult have done if the dragon told him where to stick it?
Wooly Rupert Posted - 10 Oct 2018 : 03:31:53
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

I hope he is a comic relief character.



The first act is finding and rescuing him; he was mistaken for Renaer Neverember and kidnapped.

I've not read far enough to know if he has any further part in the story.
Zeromaru X Posted - 09 Oct 2018 : 23:34:45
I hope he is a comic relief character.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 09 Oct 2018 : 21:28:52
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

Floon Blagmaar? Who makes up all these stupid names? George Lucas is my guess.



I don't know, I guess the name sounds perfect for the comic relief races, such as halflings and gnomes.



He's human.
Zeromaru X Posted - 09 Oct 2018 : 19:25:45
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

Floon Blagmaar? Who makes up all these stupid names? George Lucas is my guess.



I don't know, I guess the name sounds perfect for the comic relief races, such as halflings and gnomes.
moonbeast Posted - 07 Oct 2018 : 06:35:31
What a shame. I always liked the idea of the Moonstars….. a faction that is (sometimes) considered one of the "good guys" but not quite as goodie-goodie sweet pink unicorns like the Harpers.

It would have made a great fifth (official and AL-sanctioned) faction for 5e D&D IMHO.
Dargoth Posted - 07 Oct 2018 : 04:34:30
quote:
Originally posted by Balmar Foghaven

*SPOILERS AHEAD*

Another point of contention: I had always understood that as of the 4e era, Renaer Neverember was the head of Waterdeep`s latest branch of the Moonstars, yet Dragon Heist seems to be listing him as the PC`s contacts for the Harpers. Have the two factions merged, or is this simply an error on the part of WotC... perhaps he defected?



I get the impressions the Moonstars became redundent for the module Laeral is tied to the Lords alliance faction as the open Lord of Waterdeep and Vajra Safahr the current Blackstaff has Force Grey and its their probably that alot of the Moonstars ended up.
Dargoth Posted - 07 Oct 2018 : 04:24:55
I think Floon is meant to be Waterdeep's Farbio
farinal Posted - 06 Oct 2018 : 22:03:35
A relative of Nanny Pupu from Chult

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