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 Waterdeep Dragon Heist: that coin-like symbol?

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
moonbeast Posted - 30 Jun 2018 : 21:16:17
What the hell is it? It looks like a new category of Waterdhavian coin. That is how it is portrayed in Dragon Heist, with at least one artwork of Jarlaxle (??) throwing the damn coins around like he was some Faerunian billionaire.

But even in the OFFICIAL Lords of Waterdeep boardgame (canon material), the coin tokens used in that game does not have anything shaped like this new coin. This coin has what seems to be an "hourglass" shape (kinda like a stylized black widow hourglass shape).

Here is a link to the image, last used on Jeremy Crawford's Twitter feeds, which has the D&D logo in the center:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgpK47RU0AAy3MG.png


Here is the actual coin "portrayed" in Dragon Heist cover art, where Billionaire Jarlaxle and other Waterdeep nobles are surrounded by the prolific coins:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfDGfxGUwAECCwQ.jpg
25   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
sleyvas Posted - 14 Aug 2018 : 00:58:25
Ah, so they did have their own minting, and it looks kind of like their gold coins resembled a dragon's claw kinda?? That description is kind of odd

Gold: dragon (oval with four in-curved talons protruding from one arc of its edge [curved back inwards to minimize catching on things] in shape, gold-hued coin stamped with the same markings as a nib)
Wooly Rupert Posted - 13 Aug 2018 : 23:55:41
Since it's relevant...

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

So I decided to ping Ed directly, and much to my surprise, had a response within minutes.

In addition to wondering what was on the faces, it occurred to me to ask how the faces were referenced -- heads/tails or obverse/reverse, etc.

quote:
Here's my root lore on Sword Coast mintings:

Silverymoon:
Copper: glint
Silver: shield
Electrum: sword (older term: bluesword [[electrum coins of Silver Marches minting always have, and have had, a blue tint]])
Gold: dragon
Platinum: unicorn
“Specials”:
Moon: worth 2 gp in Silverymoon and throughout the Silver Marches, valued at 1 gp elsewhere; gold crescentiform coin stamped with the wavy line of the river (that bisects the city) on one side, and three many-pointed stars on the other.
Moon (older sort): worth 1 gp in Silverymoon and throughout the Silver Marches, but half that elsewhere; shiny blue crescentiform coin stamped the same as the newer moon; no longer officially minted, but it’s rumored that someone in the city is quietly producing them.

Waterdeep:
Copper: nib
Silver: shard
Electrum: sambar (older terms: sandar, serpent)
Gold: dragon
Platinum: sun
“Specials”:
Toal (or “Taol” in earlier centuries): worth 2gp in the city but practically worthless elsewhere; a square brass coin with a hole in the center to allow it to be strung on a string.
Harbor moon: worth 50gp in the city but 2 gp elsewhere; a crescentiform coin of platinum inset with an oval of electrum stamped with the arms of Waterdeep (used for bulk purchases as an alternative to heavier and bulkier tradebars, and more fragile gems).

SILVERYMOON (all coins are pierced by a small round hole in the center, so coins can be strung together on wire or cord):
Copper: glint (arrowhead-shaped, copper-hued triangle with two many-pointed stars in a line down one side, and a wavy line of the river down the other, crossed by an arch [representing the Moonbridge])

Silver: shield (a shield-shaped silver-hued coin [point in center of bottom, “flat” top, matching curved sides] with the same stamped markings as a glint, except that it bears a line of three many-pointed stars down the center of the shield)

Electrum: sword (an oval, shiny blue-tinted coin bearing the same stamped markings as a glint, except that one of its sides bears an arc-shaped curve of four many-pointed stars)

Gold: dragon (a gold-hued coin shaped like a stylized dragon’s head [side-on shape of open six-fanged jaws-alligator head with a row of seven small points along its “top”] bearing the same stamped markings as a glint)

Platinum: unicorn (a bright-silver-hued coin shaped like the head of a unicorn [horn-in-forehead horse’s head, side-on] bearing the same stamped markings as a glint)

WATERDEEP (no coins of current minting, except the specials, are pierced):
Copper: nib (large slender oval with a tail [tall, narrow, filled-in letter “Q,” so, a thinnish oval with a curving “ell” at one end] stamped on one side with the arms of Waterdeep, and on the other with a stylized Mount Waterdeep [triangle rising from wavy line representing the sea])

Silver: shard (“thin, long” arrowhead-shaped silver-hued coin stamped with the same markings as a nib)

Electrum: sambar (tadpole-shaped [oval with a wide three-bend-wiggle serpentine tail] silvery-blue-hued coin stamped with the same markings as a nib)

Gold: dragon (oval with four in-curved talons protruding from one arc of its edge [curved back inwards to minimize catching on things] in shape, gold-hued coin stamped with the same markings as a nib)

Platinum: sun (large round shiny-metallic ale-brown-hued coin stamped with the same markings as nib)

NOTE: the “standard” (as opposed to “special”) coins of Silverymoon are all about the same size, whereas the nib and sun of Waterdeep are noticeably larger than other Waterdhavian coins.

Nib: arms of Waterdeep face (the “front”) is “the blazon” and the stylized Mount Waterdeep face is “the mountains”

Shard: faces and their names are the same as the nib

Sambar: faces and their names are the same as the nib

Dragon: faces and their names are the same as the nib

Platinum: faces and their names are the same as the nib

Taol: (varies by minting) any face that has the moons and stars around a central ring (around the central piercing) is the “front,” and known as “the worth” (it may or may not have a “one” numeral), and the obverse (“back”) usually has a pattern of parallel wavy lines (the waves in Waterdeep harbor) and is known as “the wet”

Harbor Moon: (varies by minting) the face that has two figures (which vary by minting, but are often two ships, of the heads of two walking statues) facing inwards, towards each other and the central piercing hole (and its ring surround), is the “front” and is known as “the splendor,” whereas the obverse or “back” face usually has a radiating-rays “sun” circle surrounding the central piercing hole and its ring, often with mint marks (writing) on it, the rest of the crescent being filled with a “50” marking and with either waves or tentacles to denote the sea, and is known as the “fair sailing” (Waterdeep’s prosperity being built on its harbor and shipping, and the sun shining on the sea denoting good conditions for voyaging)


sleyvas Posted - 13 Aug 2018 : 23:26:12
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal


-In previous editions, Waterdeep did not mint its own gold coins, having more than enough from other sources



You know, I started to respond that they did, because they had the harbor moon and taol…. then I reread this statement. They had two special coins, but not necessarily the standard gold coin. Nothing says though that if they were minting two special ones that they might not mint standard ones. Do we actually have something saying that they didn't?
Garen Thal Posted - 13 Aug 2018 : 19:01:05
The coin is definitely a coin, and it's called a gold(en) dragon. A bunch of us held it in-hand at the convention. It's weighty and wonderful.

Remember, for the lore-minded, that:
-Waterdeep calls gold pieces "dragons"
-In previous editions, Waterdeep did not mint its own gold coins, having more than enough from other sources
-They were ruled for a couple of centuries by the wizard Ahghairon

There's no reason, following the rise of Laeral as Open Lord, that the city couldn't have started minting its own gold coins, with Ahgairon on the face. It's what I might do, given the opportunity...
moonbeast Posted - 06 Aug 2018 : 04:07:58
Yes, I also checked the faction symbols as they were presented in the AL books (Adventurers League). You are right, the ring is the Lords Alliance, since the Lords Alliance symbol is that of a crown. The Order of the Gauntlet symbol is…. predictably, a gauntlet clutching a sword.
Brimstone Posted - 06 Aug 2018 : 02:05:00
I Looked the Symbols up in Rise of Tiamat. Order of the Gauntlet is missing. The Ring is upside down. It's Lords Alliance.

TomCosta Posted - 05 Aug 2018 : 18:25:10
I'm guessing Waterdeep is the Lord's Alliance. The others are the Zhents, Emerald Enclave, and the Harpers, so I'm guessing the ring is the Iron Gauntlet by process of elimination unless, they are not depicting all of the trinkets, in which case the Waterdeep badge could be its own thing, and the ring could be the Lord's Alliance as Brimstone suggests.
Brimstone Posted - 04 Aug 2018 : 20:30:06
Lords Alliance?
moonbeast Posted - 04 Aug 2018 : 18:47:17
What's the ring….. which faction? Wonder Twin Powers?
Wooly Rupert Posted - 04 Aug 2018 : 15:10:01
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

It seems that this coin will be part of the (expensive!) Platinum Edition of Waterdeep Dragon Heist. Not just the coins, but also some metallic faction "badges". The pictures coming out of GenCon confirms all this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjsSeKyUcAAc78I.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjmKdKrUwAIcpmq.jpg:large



That Waterdeep badge is beautiful... The rest, meh.
moonbeast Posted - 04 Aug 2018 : 10:54:51
It seems that this coin will be part of the (expensive!) Platinum Edition of Waterdeep Dragon Heist. Not just the coins, but also some metallic faction "badges". The pictures coming out of GenCon confirms all this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjsSeKyUcAAc78I.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjmKdKrUwAIcpmq.jpg:large
Wooly Rupert Posted - 08 Jul 2018 : 05:00:04
Ah, good call. I didn't think to look at the illustrations of golds.
moonbeast Posted - 08 Jul 2018 : 03:34:09
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It looks like a brass dragon... Don't some dragons have like tendrils hanging from their chins?



Yes. D&D gold dragons are sometimes portrayed this way…. I remember, since I collect all the published D&D illustrations (so that I could show my players the creatures they encounter).

https://www.aidedd.org/dnd/images/dragonGold.jpg


Also the Kara-Tur lung dragons are portrayed having long tendrils/whiskers.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 08 Jul 2018 : 03:26:29
It looks like a brass dragon... Don't some dragons have like tendrils hanging from their chins?
sleyvas Posted - 08 Jul 2018 : 01:00:13
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

#1. This is one very dead Halfling rogue/thief. Trying to steal the Xanathar's pet goldfish is beyond brave….

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NanqvM6aOxQ/maxresdefault.jpg


#2. Official D&D Merchandise baubles are coming….. that Waterdeep hour-glass shaped coin will be embossed with…. things other than a wolf. See sceeenshots below (from Twitter). Hell, I might want to buy one of these coins, but first I'd like to know a bit more background on this Waterdeepian currency.


Oops sorry. Waterdhavian.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeyU8rXVQAE-xhX.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeyU8rWUEAAQp8B.jpg





Ah, that's a much clearer picture. It confirms its a dragon... with tentacles like an illithid?
The Masked Mage Posted - 07 Jul 2018 : 21:26:23
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

It's a gold piece from Zhentil Keep known as a "glory" or "weeping wolf". Might be a hint as to where Jarlaxle's allegiances lie.

-- George Krashos


Hmmm, aren't the Zhentil Keep folks pretty much LE? Jarlaxle strikes me as NE on normal days, and approaching CN on days he wants to knock the Llolth crowd down a notch or five.



Coin is coin, especially for someone like Jarlaxle who is willing to make use of others.

And alignment isn't a factor for membership, and even less so for citizenship. I seem to recall a Harper that lived in Zhentil Keep, not long after the Time of Troubles.


Similarly, Allegiance and Alignment are not the same thing. Zhents range many alignments. Most drow are CE, but that's certainly not universal.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 07 Jul 2018 : 16:00:32
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeyU8rXVQAE-xhX.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeyU8rWUEAAQp8B.jpg





Okay, unless those coins are like $20 a piece, I'm going to be buying at least a couple of them -- those are cool.

I made a point of buying these because of their resemblance to Waterdhavian currency:

http://www.fantasycoin.com/Water-Helm_c_61.html
moonbeast Posted - 07 Jul 2018 : 13:18:40
#1. This is one very dead Halfling rogue/thief. Trying to steal the Xanathar's pet goldfish is beyond brave….

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NanqvM6aOxQ/maxresdefault.jpg


#2. Official D&D Merchandise baubles are coming….. that Waterdeep hour-glass shaped coin will be embossed with…. things other than a wolf. See sceeenshots below (from Twitter). Hell, I might want to buy one of these coins, but first I'd like to know a bit more background on this Waterdeepian currency.


Oops sorry. Waterdhavian.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeyU8rXVQAE-xhX.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeyU8rWUEAAQp8B.jpg

sno4wy Posted - 03 Jul 2018 : 19:23:54
According to the WotC videos about the Xanathar products, the goldfish is just a goldfish, and it's Xanathar's most prized possession. Perhaps this fact is one of the indicators of Xanathar not being entirely right in the head (do you even call that thing a head when it's also the beholder's body?), but the goldfish isn't even the same goldfish. Xanathar's followers have had to take great pains in replacing it when the previous one passes without Xanathar's knowledge, for they fear that if he ever finds out that his pet goldfish died, shit would hit the fan.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 03 Jul 2018 : 17:14:36
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

It's a gold piece from Zhentil Keep known as a "glory" or "weeping wolf". Might be a hint as to where Jarlaxle's allegiances lie.

-- George Krashos


Hmmm, aren't the Zhentil Keep folks pretty much LE? Jarlaxle strikes me as NE on normal days, and approaching CN on days he wants to knock the Llolth crowd down a notch or five.



Coin is coin, especially for someone like Jarlaxle who is willing to make use of others.

And alignment isn't a factor for membership, and even less so for citizenship. I seem to recall a Harper that lived in Zhentil Keep, not long after the Time of Troubles.
ElfBane Posted - 03 Jul 2018 : 15:49:52
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

It's a gold piece from Zhentil Keep known as a "glory" or "weeping wolf". Might be a hint as to where Jarlaxle's allegiances lie.

-- George Krashos


Hmmm, aren't the Zhentil Keep folks pretty much LE? Jarlaxle strikes me as NE on normal days, and approaching CN on days he wants to knock the Llolth crowd down a notch or five.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 03 Jul 2018 : 02:11:10
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

How many times in the last hundred years has our own currency changed what's pictured on it, yet kept the same basic shape. If you don't look at the image of the coin in Jarlaxle's hand in this, but instead look at the coin images at the bottom corner.... the right side coin on each COULD be a wolf sitting on its butt howling. The other side... no clue, its like some weird blur... it could maybe be a face.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dey77tkV4AYGEjq.jpg

Oh, and the goldfish is not a polymorphed young gold dragon, because Xanathar is staring at it with his central eye open.



Maybe the fishbowl is some exotic material that prevents magic (and beholder eyebeams) from passing thru it.
Kentinal Posted - 03 Jul 2018 : 01:51:56
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Oh, and the goldfish is not a polymorphed young gold dragon, because Xanathar is staring at it with his central eye open.



Maybe lunch or just a pet? *wink*
sleyvas Posted - 02 Jul 2018 : 23:27:15
How many times in the last hundred years has our own currency changed what's pictured on it, yet kept the same basic shape. If you don't look at the image of the coin in Jarlaxle's hand in this, but instead look at the coin images at the bottom corner.... the right side coin on each COULD be a wolf sitting on its butt howling. The other side... no clue, its like some weird blur... it could maybe be a face.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dey77tkV4AYGEjq.jpg

Oh, and the goldfish is not a polymorphed young gold dragon, because Xanathar is staring at it with his central eye open.
Balmar Foghaven Posted - 02 Jul 2018 : 05:13:21
Except that they're not embossed with the weeping wolf on the cover image, but rather with a dragon.

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