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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Dalor Darden Posted - 06 Jan 2018 : 09:03:05
I'm going to be compiling a list of information (open to discussion of course...) about the world the Gray Orcs came from.

It looks like ALL orcs (edit: of Faerun...not all the multi-verse) can come from this world according to what I've found so far (as in there may be all sorts there and not just Gray Orcs).

The North wasn’t the only region of Faerūn destined to feel the savage claws of the orcs. In –1081 DR, a band of rebellious Mulhorandi wizards opened a portal to the orcs’ homeworld, and unleashed a massive horde of the creatures on the world several years later.

So this ties both the Mountain Orcs (from The North) to the Gray Orcs...all coming from the same world.

The Mountain Orcs remained "primitive" so long in the Forgotten Realms I think because they were dominated by other races. The first migration of orcs into Faerūn occurred many thousands of years ago, through portals built by one of the creator races. For thousands of years after they first migrated to Toril, the orcs were little more than feral savages too busy fighting and warring among themselves to warrant the attention of the great elven nations. This age of true savagery among the orcs of Faerūn is believed to have lasted for well over fifteen thousand years

Meanwhile on their homeworld the orcs there evolved into:

...opened a fateful portal to a savage world dominated by empires of fanatically religious orcs.

They had Empires...denoting a level of civilization that orcs in the Forgotten Realms were never able to obtain. Their power was such that:

The Orcgate Wars began in –1076 DR and quickly escalated into a war of devastating proportions. Orc warriors slew thousands upon thousands, but the most terrible aspect of this army was its magical might. These orcs were much more fanatical than those of the North, and their clerics had developed amazingly powerful and deadly spells.

This tells me that what is LEFT of the Grey Orcs are a pale shadow to what came through the Portal from their world...and what is there is now thousands of years more advanced than when the Orcgate Wars happened!

That's all I have for right now...but it makes me wonder:

If the Gray Orcs came from their world in –1076 DR; what might their world be like at 2,500+ years later?
25   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Dalor Darden Posted - 20 Jan 2018 : 23:57:24
In my "World of Ark" setting orcs don't exist. I replaced them with another race that is capable of breeding with any other member...there are no "males" or "females" and they give birth to at least twins.

I picture Orcs also giving birth to multiple whelps. Infant mortality is probably high among their kind, and so having at least twins seems likely since they are a "fecund" lot.

I'm not too keen on them growing to adulthood quite as fast as what MT is saying...but damn near. The best example I have is that my 12 year old son is 5'7" now and more than capable of whipping the shit out of many adults I know. Not that he would...

For orcs, I picture young-adult males being the "low hit point end" of the group...not necessarily runts; but new warriors. The more HP an orc has the more experienced and powerful it has grown.

The lowest HP end (yep, I've had groups with 1 hp orcs) are maybe whelps that have been pulled into fighting because the group needs numbers. Such orcs might stay at the rear as archers...and this is likely why orc archers suck: they don't have much experience.

In THIS Orc-World:

I picture women literally breeding as quickly as possible. They force their whelps to be weaned as quickly as possible and then the little buggers have to learn to steal or gather food on their own. So a female might have twins (or more) as often as once a year with a high percentage of them being male.

Even if an orc tribe loses most of its male members, a single male can impregnate dozens of females all by himself...and the loss of most males wouldn't starve the females and whelps because they already gather/supply nearly 100% of the food.

I can see orc females being the whip-holders over slaves. Perfectly willing to "cull the herd" when meat is needed for the cooking pots. I can also see them mating forcefully with males of other species to replenish the population if even all the males were wiped out in a battle-field slaughter...but there would be little need as even a whelp-male could quickly step in to fulfill rutting needs.

When we look at the math, orcs replenish their numbers so quickly because the females DON'T fight...not that they can't. Orc lairs are continually filled with pregnant females...likely pregnant already when trying to ween their previous whelps.

I DO like the idea that their time of pregnancy is much shorter than humans. They aren't idiots, but their brains aren't the largest thin about them either...and the only reason humans have such a long gestation period is because of brain development.

On the other side of that, their babies probably walk much sooner than humans as well. Some animals are literally able to walk mere minutes after birth. Orc whelps probably take longer; but to use Gorillas as an example:

Orcs (Gorillas) start crawling at 2 months old, and by the time they are nine months old can cling to their mother while she travels...literally sleep while the mother goes about her day, clinging in their sleep. They are weaned by the time they are about 2 years old but aren't fully "pushed aside" until they are about 4 years old. Male Orcs mature at about 11 years old, while female orcs mature at about 8 years old. They live for about 35 years old in the "wild" but about 50 years in civilized situations (this means captivity for gorillas...but could be in less harsh conditions for orcs such as shamans and so on).

To me, this means that a whelp male lives pretty much "on his own" from age "late four years" until he is a full adult at about 11 or 12. During that time he spends most of his time rough-housing with other young whelps, trying to scavenge food and find himself weapons that are cast off by other orcs who get better weapons. The older males often "recruit" whelps to help with martial things such as cleaning gear, sharpening blades and so on. They likely also beat them around when in the way or doing the wrong thing teaching them how to evade blows and be quick on their feet. Orc fighting is quick and brutal, and likely the whelps experience some mortality but those that survive learn how to fight brutally.

Orc warriors learn by example most likely...not much time spent by elders but instead by being the "supply train" in battles where they operate as archers, loot carriers and a reserve when things get really tight.

More later...
Wooly Rupert Posted - 20 Jan 2018 : 22:56:35
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I didn't want to clog-up your other orc thread (the one with the alcohol), and this would be better-suited here anyway.

I think all Orcs should 'live' at double the human rate. That mean not only will an 8-year-old orc look like a 16-year-old (to a human), but also the pregnancies should reflect this - just 4½ months. This means the average adult orc should have only half the maturity of a human appearing around the same age (which makes a LOT of sense, when you think about it). It also means that 30 year old orc is VERY old by orc standards - like a sixty year old to humans (and most would not live that long - maybe some chiefs and shaman).

Furthermore, it means an orc of only 6 years of actual age will start having 'adult responsibilities' (training to be a warrior, etc), because they would be about the size of a human 12 year old.



I'm not sure I like this idea... But I'm not aware of any particular reason it doesn't work.

I'm not up on 5E or half-orcs, in general -- how does their lifespan compare to humans?
Markustay Posted - 20 Jan 2018 : 21:35:42
I didn't want to clog-up your other orc thread (the one with the alcohol), and this would be better-suited here anyway.

I think all Orcs should 'live' at double the human rate. That mean not only will an 8-year-old orc look like a 16-year-old (to a human), but also the pregnancies should reflect this - just 4½ months. This means the average adult orc should have only half the maturity of a human appearing around the same age (which makes a LOT of sense, when you think about it). It also means that 30 year old orc is VERY old by orc standards - like a sixty year old to humans (and most would not live that long - maybe some chiefs and shaman).

Furthermore, it means an orc of only 6 years of actual age will start having 'adult responsibilities' (training to be a warrior, etc), because they would be about the size of a human 12 year old.
Dalor Darden Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 01:13:23
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

So I've made a map for the Orc-World of Ekur.

I've decided on a change of scale (pulling back from the world-spanning idea to focus on a smaller area) and with that the map I'm working with right now is far smaller in scope.

As you can see the area is still extensive.

Naming Orc locations is pretty fun...but some of them will likely be changed as I go along.



Lol, you have two Rok's... one should be New Rok.... or the other should be Old-Style Rok. Oh, and next to one of the Rok's should be Roal.

Also, what do the elves name the islands.



In Orc/Black Speech "Rrok" means "Hold"...

Fha Jatagan Rrok = Great Scimitar Hold

Gijak Krahaun Rrok = Blood Coast Hold

The "Elf" land is "Ish" but they are not normal "Elves" at all...more on that later.
sleyvas Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 23:55:49
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

So I've made a map for the Orc-World of Ekur.

I've decided on a change of scale (pulling back from the world-spanning idea to focus on a smaller area) and with that the map I'm working with right now is far smaller in scope.

As you can see the area is still extensive.

Naming Orc locations is pretty fun...but some of them will likely be changed as I go along.



Lol, you have two Rok's... one should be New Rok.... or the other should be Old-Style Rok. Oh, and next to one of the Rok's should be Roal.

Also, what do the elves name the islands.
Dalor Darden Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 23:18:53
So I've made a map for the Orc-World of Ekur.

I've decided on a change of scale (pulling back from the world-spanning idea to focus on a smaller area) and with that the map I'm working with right now is far smaller in scope.

As you can see the area is still extensive.

Naming Orc locations is pretty fun...but some of them will likely be changed as I go along.
sfdragon Posted - 16 Jan 2018 : 09:41:58
to tell more how they were being jerks tbeholder.

dont own that book and no real interest in getting it..
Dalor Darden Posted - 16 Jan 2018 : 03:39:38
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Orcs can survive in desert wastelands, apparently better than humans. But it seems to me that most orcs tend to dwell in places where water is at least somewhat abundant, arctic and subarctic and temperate and mountainous and underground sorts of places. They do need fairly copious water for their ironmongery. Although I suppose an orc can survive (at least for a while) on water the civilized races would consider too unpalatable or too polluted for consumption.



I envisioned the orcs being brought to Ekur by water-dwelling sauroids because they couldn't sustain campaigns against the Firenewts in the inhospitable environments the fire-lovers dwell in.

Once the Firenewts were defeated (though not destroyed) the orcs turned on their "benefactors" and also crushed them.

That being the long story made very short...
Ayrik Posted - 16 Jan 2018 : 01:44:04
Orcs can survive in desert wastelands, apparently better than humans. But it seems to me that most orcs tend to dwell in places where water is at least somewhat abundant, arctic and subarctic and temperate and mountainous and underground sorts of places. They do need fairly copious water for their ironmongery. Although I suppose an orc can survive (at least for a while) on water the civilized races would consider too unpalatable or too polluted for consumption.
Markustay Posted - 15 Jan 2018 : 22:53:52
Its all fun & games until the Fire Nation shows up.
sleyvas Posted - 15 Jan 2018 : 22:27:00
That makes sense. So, the "fire races" were the ones to destroy the water, not necessarily the orcs. So, firenewts and flame salamanders.... might be interesting to include Ibrandlin amongst those numbers with maybe Ibrandul having been imported from here.

In looking up fire monsters, I also just came across something that might be interesting. There's a creature in the 3.5 Monster Manual 3 called the Phoelarch. This creature is a humanoid with feathers, but it looks like an elf kind of with feathers.... somewhat like native american'ish with golden or rusty colored skin and apparently tattoos. When they die, they explode with fire and leave behind an egg that hatches into a phoenix like bird (a Phoera). When the Phoera dies, it explodes and leaves behind an egg that creates a Phoelarch. Anyway, harkening back to something I was talking about the other day.... I'm betting orcs would love eating eggs.
Dalor Darden Posted - 15 Jan 2018 : 19:50:08
So the Water Portals:

They would have been created in long ages past by the Empire of Fire.

The Salamen have little need for water...and their foes in the most ancient times would have been perhaps races that DID need lots of water (Bullywugs and etc.).

So the portals used in the Water Wars were probably created long before the orcs came to the world...and in fact the orcs were probably brought to the world by the water loving Reptoids to make war against the Salamen in the hot/dry climate that the other races couldn't live in.

The Firenewts/Salamen were then the creators of the Water Portals originally under the direction of someone capable of directing their creation.
TBeholder Posted - 15 Jan 2018 : 19:31:05
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

so let me see. the scro want to kill the elves because their forebears the Orcs suffered heavy losses during the unhuman wars?

Losses as such are not very important for the orcs.
Ultimate defeat, and also elves were jerks about it (even by the orc standards).
quote:
and the orcs believed to survive they must expand and conquer?

More of the traditional enmity. Also, in wildspace goblinoids mostly act as disorganised random raiders, while elves tend toward Children of Gods rightful owners of the Universe control freaks.
So of course they clashed here and there, and then the elves (after drooling deliberating for a few centuries) started a total war.
quote:
maybe the orcs and thus the scro too should learn how to manage resources and not go out for conquer ..oh well.

They can when they really want to (e.g. Oscray).
sfdragon Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 02:27:11
so let me see. the scro want to kill the elves because their forebears the Orcs suffered heavy losses during the unhuman wars?

and the orcs believed to survive they must expand and conquer?

maybe the orcs and thus the scro too should learn how to manage resources and not go out for conquer ..oh well.

btw... what elf subraces are in starjammer
Dalor Darden Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 02:09:02
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I feel like I missed an important point along the way - were the gates underwater, and the reason why the water levels dropped was because it went through the gates? They were only functional while submerged?



There were portals used by the Orcs (and maybe another race before) to drop the water level so that the islands of their foes could be laid waste.

Many were found and destroyed...but some were left that simply don't "do their job" now because they are no longer submerged due to the dropping of the water levels.
Markustay Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 00:16:27
I feel like I missed an important point along the way - were the gates underwater, and the reason why the water levels dropped was because it went through the gates? They were only functional while submerged?
Dalor Darden Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 21:21:39
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Ekur Today.

Looking back in time on Ekur:

Ekur at the time of the Orcgate Wars.

Ekur in an "Elder Age" when orcs first came to the world.

EDIT: for comparison, the different "Ages" of Ekur are:

A Globe of Ekur in an "Elder Age" when orcs first came to the world.

A Globe of Ekur around the time of the Orcgate Wars.

Ekur Today after the Water War Portals have all been destroyed.



Oh, wow, that water war was serious. It might be interesting if you involve earth elementals in with that in some form. For instance, we know that in the FR Cosmology, Luthic and Grumbar were involved in a romance behind Gruumsh's back. Just a thought, not sure if it works.



Originally the surface of Ekur was 75% water. By the time the Water Wars were finished, the surface area was approaching the 46% coverage that was in existence when the Orcgate War started. It wasn't until much later that the last portals became either destroyed or simply ineffective simply because the portals were no longer under water. Today the surface of Ekur is only about 28% water.
sleyvas Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 15:02:14
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Ekur Today.

Looking back in time on Ekur:

Ekur at the time of the Orcgate Wars.

Ekur in an "Elder Age" when orcs first came to the world.

EDIT: for comparison, the different "Ages" of Ekur are:

A Globe of Ekur in an "Elder Age" when orcs first came to the world.

A Globe of Ekur around the time of the Orcgate Wars.

Ekur Today after the Water War Portals have all been destroyed.



Oh, wow, that water war was serious. It might be interesting if you involve earth elementals in with that in some form. For instance, we know that in the FR Cosmology, Luthic and Grumbar were involved in a romance behind Gruumsh's back. Just a thought, not sure if it works.
sleyvas Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 14:52:52
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Where are the islands? This looks like one contiguous land mass with large lakes.



Using a Transverse Mercator Map at the 146 degree you get:

Red Circles are where the Islands are.

So, there are LOTS of islands. Remember too, this is a Global Picture and not the close up. Many smaller islands are literally single pixels at this scale.



Ok, that's a lot more clear. It was hard to see on the other with it spinning.
TBeholder Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 06:08:57
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden


What makes you think it is Borka?

It not necessarily is Borka, but seems best fit of the known worlds. Also, why not.
Borka used to be full of orcs (and goblinoids in general).
And there's at least one precedent for gates to Greyspace: Sschindylryn - Erelhei-Cinlu, used by the drow.
Dalor Darden Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 03:00:12
I plan to use these maps to determine where the more ancient civilizations stood...and where their ruins are today.

Many of the Old Orc Empires that have fallen, their most powerful cities probably sit now far away from water...and so have fallen into ruin usually. Some will still be near water (usually along rivers)...but the most ancient ruins of races before the orcs will be in places where riverbeds are dry because it never rains.

I've started developing the cultural trait of Orc Adventurers...it is coming along pretty nicely.

Orcs don't adventure for JUST treasure, but for glory, powerful magic AND treasure to become powerful orcs. Actually, Orc Adventurers make WAY more sense than your typical "Good" adventurers.
Dalor Darden Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 02:37:11
Ekur Today.

Looking back in time on Ekur:

Ekur at the time of the Orcgate Wars.

Ekur in an "Elder Age" when orcs first came to the world.

EDIT: for comparison, the different "Ages" of Ekur are:

A Globe of Ekur in an "Elder Age" when orcs first came to the world.

A Globe of Ekur around the time of the Orcgate Wars.

Ekur Today after the Water War Portals have all been destroyed.
Dalor Darden Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 02:31:54
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Where are the islands? This looks like one contiguous land mass with large lakes.



Using a Transverse Mercator Map at the 146 degree you get:

Red Circles are where the Islands are.

So, there are LOTS of islands. Remember too, this is a Global Picture and not the close up. Many smaller islands are literally single pixels at this scale.
sleyvas Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 00:43:18
Where are the islands? This looks like one contiguous land mass with large lakes.
Dalor Darden Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 22:21:59
So, the first step of making Ekur as it is in the Current Year:

Orcworld of Ekur in color.

Orcworld of Ekur in black and white.

That is the preliminary globe view, and I've started on a mercator projection as well as a hex map.

I got so interested in this I've temporarily put other projects on hold and even shifted my "art team" to making orc art.

Looks like it is going to be pretty fun to work on.

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