| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 31 Oct 2013 : 18:24:24
So Zehir the god of the snakes or something like that, that showed up and stayed around....
I just want to say, it doesn't seem really to big of a deal, other then a random lore that fit oddly.
Two things thou that came out of it that, was decent.
Venom In Her Veins, uses the god pretty well, for plot points.
..... We know Sset is still around. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 12 Sep 2017 : 15:38:17
I'd swear I read that Zehir was just an alias of Set to stay in the Realms during the Sundering. Of course, I don't recall where I read that.... |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 11 Sep 2017 : 01:50:24
Well, Zehir was always Set. If you read "Worlds & Monsters" (4e preview book), there they say that Zehir "placeholder" name was Set before they decided to go with an original name instead. Thought, they were thinking more in Conan's Set than egyptian Set, it seems.
Nonetheless, Zehir always has been Set since 4th-edition. So, really, he is not an interloper. He just went by a new name because reasons. |
| Gyor |
Posted - 11 Sep 2017 : 01:03:17
I think that they intend for Zehir in 5e to be an alias for Set, at least the 5e DMG indicated that. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 03 Nov 2013 : 18:13:35
well hells bells Diffan, I didnt know taht you thought of it before me.....
still he can run with it.... |
| Diffan |
Posted - 03 Nov 2013 : 13:24:44
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
its not cannon at all.
I just then made it up at the time I posted it.
if you like it, you have my permission to steal it and run with it.( after all I stole markustay's ravequeen consort to kelemvor idea)
just post your results
Hey, that was my idea!!   |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 03 Nov 2013 : 05:02:27
its not cannon at all.
I just then made it up at the time I posted it.
if you like it, you have my permission to steal it and run with it.( after all I stole markustay's ravequeen consort to kelemvor idea)
just post your results |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 22:33:50
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
Zehir is a mortal yuan-ti that rose to godhood while he lived on Abeir.
he needs to go back to Abeir.
or be killed by the reformed world serpent
Hmmm, I knew absolutely nothing of Zehir before... but you actually piqued my interest now. I like the idea of a god that rose up on Abeir making his way over to Toril. Is this canon? From what resource?
I am intrigued by this statement on a dragon article in issue #415 though. "Zehir takes such a keen interest in killing because he
devours the souls of anyone murdered in his name or
with his assistance." So, the souls of anyone killed in his name or with his assistance don't go to the god that is their favored deity? At first glance this statement sounds like someone just making a statement about how evil this deity is, but if they've found a means to subvert other gods from getting their loyal following's souls in truth....
Also this statement in the article could prove interesting in the realms as well "Zehir forbids his followers from worshiping other gods, and those who are caught doing so become sacrifices to their
erstwhile patron." So, does this mean a follower of Zehir who makes an offering to Umberlee before a sea voyage will find himself being offered up as a sacrifice?
Finally, from the same article, I found this part particularly interesting, because it possibly hints at other things in the realms. "Members of the Third Coil follow Zehir without question. Their main goal is to feed him a steady diet of souls, since they believe that when the dark god gains the strength needed to defeat his enemies, he will devour the sun and wrap his coils around the
mortal world, covering all in eternal darkness."
Why does this last part in particular interest me? So, here we have a serpent being who will "devour the sun". This being is also associated with darkness/night. We know that this serpent being wants/has the ability to reroute souls from their normal destination with their favored deity to itself, so long as it is somehow involved with the soul's murder. We know that this serpent being will not tolerate any cooperation of its servants with any member of any Torilian pantheon.
We know that Dendar the Night Serpent wants to devour the sun. The fact that its called the night serpent implies some affiliation with darkness (and we know she's involved with dreams... even those of deities... and she has some shadow magic). I believe that Cyric fed Dendar souls to fatten her up (could be wrong), but that Kelemvor has cut that diet (though what was used with that energy.... possibly a split off deity?). We know that amongst the Rus at least, Dendar was known by another name (Nidhogg, who nibbled at the roots of Yggdrassil down in Hel). We believe that Dendar's not particularly fond of gods... being a primordial. Whose to say that Dendar didn't use the influx of soul energy to spin up a deific form named Zehir? Being involved with dreams/nightmares, I'd imagine Dendar could create some kind of false prophetic visions using imagery gathered since the dawn of time. |
| Demzer |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 21:41:21
... i had an angry rant here. Instead i'll just give you the short version: the problem with Zehir isn't that he's just there, is that he "happened" to the Realms without any good reason and usurped the role of other deities both in game use (he just started having human/yuan-ti followers in place of the already well established deities) and in "face time" (he got in a novel were someone far more Realmsian and far more worthy like Talona/Set/Sseth could have been).
Just saying "whatever" when new things get introduced without any reason in the Realms and without even a smidgen of respect to prior established lore is ... i don't know ... i need to stop typing ... |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 19:34:55
Zehir is a mortal yuan-ti that rose to godhood while he lived on Abeir.
he needs to go back to Abeir.
or be killed by the reformed world serpent
|
| Eilserus |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 19:32:52
More gods in the Realms doesn't bother me. Take a look at demihumans and see how many they seem to have in a pantheon. It wouldn't be a stretch for other races to have such a diverse group of deities that they serve and/or revere. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 19:21:41
Since the FR pantheon is rife with deities that do similiar or exactly the same thing, I really don't find Zehir's incursion all tha worrisome. Sure, it's a bit hyprocritical to say there are too many and then create a bunch more, I'll grant you that. But how many nature deities and deities of nature animals are there now, for example? If the answer is more than 2 then I think it's a bit repetitive. So why not a scaly-kind of deity? |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 17:18:00
I agree with Markus, Zehir is the least of my worries. I would be just as happy if he was left in a corner and forgotten (no pun intended) as if he was forcibly evicted. And since there are (as this scroll indicates) scribes who actually like him, the former would probably be better than the latter. |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 17:17:45
I think if WotC do another 'themed season' a-la Rise of the Underdark, a full-on power struggle between the serpentfolk and their gods could be an interesting one if written well.
Maybe one Realms author gets creative control of a serpentfolk faction. The followers of Sseth, Set (if he's still around), Zehir, Sertrous, Shekinester, etc. each try and get their god to primacy while hatching a grand plot to eliminate the scaleless ones (or in Sertrous' case, everything), then we as customers get to decide what happens. |
| Drustan Dwnhaedan |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 16:50:51
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Your confusing Sseth and Set. Set was the Mulhorandi God of Serpents, deserts, and evil magic.
Sseth on the other hand was a fragment of the world snake and worshipped by the Sarrahk and Yanti and other related races.
The only relation they have is when Set devoured Sseth in 3e and Sseth devoured Set in 4e.
Sseth also devoured another Serpent God Venrae or something and assumed the identity.
So, Set devoured Sseth, who then devoured Set? *eyes begin spinning in sockets* (Hmm... there doesn't seem to be a swirly-eyed smily. I guess I'll have to provide my own {@o@}.) |
| Gyor |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 01:55:03
Your confusing Sseth and Set. Set was the Mulhorandi God of Serpents, deserts, and evil magic.
Sseth on the other hand was a fragment of the world snake and worshipped by the Sarrahk and Yanti and other related races.
The only relation they have is when Set devoured Sseth in 3e and Sseth devoured Set in 4e.
Sseth also devoured another Serpent God Venrae or something and assumed the identity. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 01:19:44
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
I actually like Zehir. All those old yuanti empires down south in the jungles would have tons of backstory and lore and we've seen really none of it. I wouldn't be surprised if there was another half a dozen snake gods down there. I've never cared for Sseth or any of the other real life like Mulhorandi pantheon as it breaks the suspension of disbelief in the Realms for me.
BOOOOOO
The Mulhorandi Pantheon, and old empires in general, was awesome, and I hope to hell they bring them back.
The Old Godkings would be a worthy fight for Szass Tam and Thay :)
|
| Eilserus |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 16:16:12
I actually like Zehir. All those old yuanti empires down south in the jungles would have tons of backstory and lore and we've seen really none of it. I wouldn't be surprised if there was another half a dozen snake gods down there. I've never cared for Sseth or any of the other real life like Mulhorandi pantheon as it breaks the suspension of disbelief in the Realms for me.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 15:42:49
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
However, now that the gods are fed by faith... I don't see a need to make it be a need to "steal portfolios".
I don't know, thinking about godly status has convinced me that the power of the deities it's not just faith-based and that portfolio elements play as much a large role in the deities power than their worship base.
Just to name a few examples:
- Shar is one of the deities with the highest divine rank, yet her church is outlawed in half the continent and has to contend the other half with other evil faiths. Furthermore her dogma (banalizing "everything must end, strive for nothing, spread despair") is way less enticing than that of Bane (banalizing "rule the weak, grow in power"), Cyric (banalizing "do the f**k you want but say my name while doing it") or any other fiendish cabal (and let's remember Loviatar has the reserved rights on BSDM faith). So why is she more powerful than someone like Lathander or Sune that have way larger worship bases? Because she is a being of incredible personal power, and because every time a new secret is created in the Realms, every time someone experiences the loss of a loved one, she grows a tad more;
- Mystra is the "overgod in waiting" of the Realms, yet her worship base is smaller than most other greater or intermediate deities (with magic outlawed or outright banned in many places and rigidly regulated in others and with "evil" magic-doers despising her name because she is just a do-gooder), so where does her power comes from? Of course it comes almost all from the fact Toril is highly magical and everything is (was? will be?) permeated by the Weave, her essence, and this lets her get way more power than her ascended mortal form or her worship base would grant her.
That's why portfolio elements are important, in my view. (And that's why no deity should go poof even if somehow her whorshippers forget her name, but i digress ...)
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
One of the things that you would see in this kind of thing with multiple deities would be a return to deities being killable by mortals (because if there's more gods, there's less faith energy to support said gods), though there might be rules set in place where only demi-gods can be permanently slain by mortals. It would also be fairly common that new faiths rising up would be actively sought out by deities who share portfolios (so things like Zehir showing up wouldn't be unusual... neither would his temples being destroyed and his followers either slain or converted). Unfortunately, this would also mean the death of deities, which is what we see people complaining about (OMG, Bhaal is gone... I hate Cyric... why'd they kill Eilistraee.... etc....). That being said, we've all seen deities come back (rolls the dice.... come on LEIRA!!!!).
I don't know about killing deities outright, i know i would be opposed to that just like i did in the past. But the thing that baffles me the most is that we have a fairly complex divine system with 4 tiers of godhood and wildly different levels of divine servitude yet, when it comes to writing books (be it sourcebooks or novels) or scripts, there is no middle ground. Either a greater deity dies in a few seconds or some upstart with not even a scrap of godhood jumps to greater deity status. In this situation everything is drastic and it "seems" the only way out is for static conservation of powers and entities.
To both i say NO!
Give me an interesting story in which a greater deity loses avatars and worshippers and falls down to intermediate or lesser deity status, give me a story about a demigod struggling and fighting and scheming and finally reaching lesser godhood!
This would make the pantheon way more dynamic and believable and would have the side effect that whatever the players want they can work for it: if i'm a fervent Siamorphe worshipper, play always aristocratic characters staunchly loyal to the church, follow canon to the letter and you kill Siamorphe in canon i may very well be done with my Realms experience; if in this same situation Siamorphe is cast down in Waterdeep mortal again and there's a call to action for her faithful to help protect her from Banites and Gargauth's followers and to restore her station then hell yeah! i would be jumping in without second thoughts.
And this applies to all deities in every situation. Shades of grey, middle grounds, "in medio stat virtus" and all that jazz.
... but i still think that Zehir should GTFO just to make an example of him.
EDIT: Oh i forgot! I vote for Judge Dredd as Tyr's replacement ("I AM THE LAW!!")
Yeah, as I was writing the previous, and talking about mortals killing demi-gods, the idea that they could kill a lesser deity and him losing an avatar occurred to me. Then by attrition (i.e. killing said deity over and over) they could in theory drop him from being a god. I don't know about making them return as a mortal however as the de facto answer. I'd save that as some kind of special trick that some demi-gods may have in their pocket IF they rose up to godhood from this crystal sphere as a mortal. Others simply find their deific energy petrified as husks in the astral.
Now, am I in favor of mortals killing deities? No. I'm more in favor of deities maybe starving off because they have no worshippers, and that being the more common way to finish them off. You do make a good point with the idea that "each little secret increases Shar". However, I think that also has to do with everyone also knowing her name. If her clergy were killed off and her imminent threat erased from people's minds (possibly because of someone else's imminent threat), I'm betting she'd drop in power level significantly. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 15:26:04
LOL - I had pictured someone just as neutral/ambivalent, but not quite so violent. 
I do like the idea of 'Justicars' thematically. Someone has to police the 'wild regions', much like the Marshals in the old west. So his followers could be much more like Judge Dredd.
Followers of Ilmater (who also needs a new name) could possible act as mellowing-force, pleading for pity in some cases (so we would also still have some semblance of The triad around).
Isselmar: "Find pity in thy heart, Nuatyr, for this creature is incapable of even comprehending what it has done wrong."
Nuatyr: "Ignorance is no excuse. It has caused much harm, and I find it guilty. Executioner, would you please do your duty?"
Helm: {steps forward and loops off the Cambion's head}
Nuatyr: "Justice hath prevailed." (the other two bow their heads in acquiescence)
From on far...
Kelmvor: {staring into the scrying pool at the scene that just played-out} "I do not like the Triad passing judgment - they come close to usurping my authority!"
His Raven-haired Consort: "Fear not, my love, I will speak with them. They pass judgement on those yet living - it is still up to the King of the Dead to pass judgement on their immortal souls."
End Interlude...
|
| Demzer |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 14:38:24
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
However, now that the gods are fed by faith... I don't see a need to make it be a need to "steal portfolios".
I don't know, thinking about godly status has convinced me that the power of the deities it's not just faith-based and that portfolio elements play as much a large role in the deities power than their worship base.
Just to name a few examples:
- Shar is one of the deities with the highest divine rank, yet her church is outlawed in half the continent and has to contend the other half with other evil faiths. Furthermore her dogma (banalizing "everything must end, strive for nothing, spread despair") is way less enticing than that of Bane (banalizing "rule the weak, grow in power"), Cyric (banalizing "do the f**k you want but say my name while doing it") or any other fiendish cabal (and let's remember Loviatar has the reserved rights on BSDM faith). So why is she more powerful than someone like Lathander or Sune that have way larger worship bases? Because she is a being of incredible personal power, and because every time a new secret is created in the Realms, every time someone experiences the loss of a loved one, she grows a tad more;
- Mystra is the "overgod in waiting" of the Realms, yet her worship base is smaller than most other greater or intermediate deities (with magic outlawed or outright banned in many places and rigidly regulated in others and with "evil" magic-doers despising her name because she is just a do-gooder), so where does her power comes from? Of course it comes almost all from the fact Toril is highly magical and everything is (was? will be?) permeated by the Weave, her essence, and this lets her get way more power than her ascended mortal form or her worship base would grant her.
That's why portfolio elements are important, in my view. (And that's why no deity should go poof even if somehow her whorshippers forget her name, but i digress ...)
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
One of the things that you would see in this kind of thing with multiple deities would be a return to deities being killable by mortals (because if there's more gods, there's less faith energy to support said gods), though there might be rules set in place where only demi-gods can be permanently slain by mortals. It would also be fairly common that new faiths rising up would be actively sought out by deities who share portfolios (so things like Zehir showing up wouldn't be unusual... neither would his temples being destroyed and his followers either slain or converted). Unfortunately, this would also mean the death of deities, which is what we see people complaining about (OMG, Bhaal is gone... I hate Cyric... why'd they kill Eilistraee.... etc....). That being said, we've all seen deities come back (rolls the dice.... come on LEIRA!!!!).
I don't know about killing deities outright, i know i would be opposed to that just like i did in the past. But the thing that baffles me the most is that we have a fairly complex divine system with 4 tiers of godhood and wildly different levels of divine servitude yet, when it comes to writing books (be it sourcebooks or novels) or scripts, there is no middle ground. Either a greater deity dies in a few seconds or some upstart with not even a scrap of godhood jumps to greater deity status. In this situation everything is drastic and it "seems" the only way out is for static conservation of powers and entities.
To both i say NO!
Give me an interesting story in which a greater deity loses avatars and worshippers and falls down to intermediate or lesser deity status, give me a story about a demigod struggling and fighting and scheming and finally reaching lesser godhood!
This would make the pantheon way more dynamic and believable and would have the side effect that whatever the players want they can work for it: if i'm a fervent Siamorphe worshipper, play always aristocratic characters staunchly loyal to the church, follow canon to the letter and you kill Siamorphe in canon i may very well be done with my Realms experience; if in this same situation Siamorphe is cast down in Waterdeep mortal again and there's a call to action for her faithful to help protect her from Banites and Gargauth's followers and to restore her station then hell yeah! i would be jumping in without second thoughts.
And this applies to all deities in every situation. Shades of grey, middle grounds, "in medio stat virtus" and all that jazz.
... but i still think that Zehir should GTFO just to make an example of him.
EDIT: Oh i forgot! I vote for Judge Dredd as Tyr's replacement ("I AM THE LAW!!") |
| BEAST |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 14:38:11
Not being up on all the trivial intricacies of Realmslore at large, I had no clue what this "Zehir" fellow was. But just from reading that title, I initially thought of <this guy>.
I kinda get the impression that I actually wasn't that far off . . .  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 14:03:23
I would normally just edit my last post, but it was already over-long.
On-Topic:
As for Zehir, thats the very least of my worries. They can easilly say it was just Set under an alias, or one of FR's slumbering serpent gods returning in a new guise. The possibilities are endless. What I DON'T want is for them to continue saying he is a new deity.
On the other hand, perhaps they should leave that low-key. Some of us Sages (through stuff here or some obscure article over at the Wizbro boards) could know that it was really Set all along, but keep the 'Zehir' monicker moving forward, for no other reason then to move us further away from the RW derivations that we have been complaining about for years.
I have no problem with the next FR books using 'new' gods, but let us know (somehow) they aren't really new; we just got some name changes. For instance, its time we got rid of Tyr. Keep the god, ditch the name. Thats all I'm saying. With his imminent 5e return, that should be easy enough (some mortal may have found a relic and through fanatical devotion, was 'blessed' with a piece of Tyr's remaining godhood. Wallah... instant 'new Tyr' moving forward. just give him the mortal's name... and perhaps a shiny new hand).
Oh... and don't actually use Nûtyr... that would be corny as hell. perhaps make the mortal blind ("blind justice"), but that may be a bit too RW derivative as well... although a blind god seems pretty original, IMO. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 13:53:56
so the novel?? is it the only canonical appearance of him?
alot of people often state that the video games are not canon |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 13:50:17
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
So Zehir the god of the snakes or something like that, that showed up and stayed around....
I just want to say, it doesn't seem really to big of a deal, other then a random lore that fit oddly. <snipped for brevity>
I think the biggest complaint is that WotC made a point of culling the pantheon, saying there were too many deities -- and then they dropped in Zehir, whom many people feel is redundant.
One does have to wonder about the logic behind importing new deities like Zehir or having Asmodeus ascend to godhood when there were already, according to the designers, too many deities. We have too many but you're adding more?
This was all part of the on-going problem (in 4e AND the tail-end of 3e) that I brought up in the other thread - one hand not knowing what the other(s) are doing.
The most prominent example of that was during one of those podcasts, when one designer said, "we will not be seeing {such-and-such} anymore...", and was immediately contradicted by the other designer, saying, "except for {this, this, and this}"... We got a very clear picture of what was going on over in Renton, or rather, what was NOT going on (any form of communication between the 4e team members, who were all running in different directions with a very basic outline).
It is no wonder so few of us understood any of the 4e material (and its still a confusing mess), because it appeared that they weren't even sure what everything was that they were proposing. Perhaps if the 4e team had been given another year or two to refine everything, things would have worked out very differently... but we'll never know.
At THIS time, this is all water-under-the-bridge, and I'm fairly certain they have learned a hard lesson form their mistakes, and are now paying close attention to every detail.
Its like that Rocky movie with Clubber Lang - WotC was on top, and was just 'coasting'. Paizo came in with 'the eye of the tiger' and stomped all over their market share. Now WotC is hungry again, and thats a good thing. Complacency gave us 4e, and desperation will give us 5e - I'd back desperation over complacency anyday.
As I've stated numerous times - I will buy the initial core 5e D&D books (I'd prefer only 2, but whatever), and I WILL buy the 5e FR campaign setting. It is then up to them to keep me interested enough to purchase more products from them. For all FR has given us, it deserves we give it one more chance. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 13:28:42
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
It gets rid of the messy problem of "god x over x portfolio died... now x isn't working in the realms anymore". I mean, if the god of fire dies, we don't have fire go wonky in the realms.... he can just be a deity with a strong link to fire, and there can be a second deity with a similar link.
Is this some conclusion you and others came to or is this canonical information? This doesn't seem true to me and disproved more than one time in the Realms. The only link to this theory is the fact every time Mystr-- died magic got wonkey but that's because she *IS* the matrix of magic. Kossuth isn't fire, Istishia isn't water, Shaundakul isn't travel and Waukeen isn't trade.
The Netheres had no god of necromancers and a lot of necromancers and necromantic spells. Waukeen is the deity of commerce and has way less than 2 thousands years of life, yet i bet you whatever you want the batrachi and the sarrukh had merchants of some kind in their time. When Helm died guards, watchposts and gates all over Toril didn't suddendly drop dead or crumble to dust, when Bane died people kept fearing monsters and the disasters the ToT brought to Toril and i'm sure tyrannical rulers didn't suddenly start being benevolent (and his portfolio was reassigned later, so it was "vacant" until the end of the ToT). When Myrkul died and before Cyric got the seat, the Fugue Plane didn't dissolve into nothingness and souls kept traveling there.
The problem with Zehir is not only that he is redundant but that having him do anything just because he happens to be in the Realms for an oversight/misunderstanding is a show of disrespect for Set, Sseth, Merrshaulk, Amphisbaena, Talona, Kiputytto and Bhaal (and whichever other Sarrukh/Yuan-ti/Naga god i forgot about). Each of which, by virtue of having an interesting backstory and strong ties to the Realms, is hundreds of times more deserving of any attention given to assassins, poisons or scalykind.
"The more the merrier" is good when each one does something, not with everyone being the same in another skin and doing things one at a time.
Good arguments, and I'm glad to see them made, because I never want to see a story where "the god of the dead is gone, and no one is dying in the realms". I guess my main complaint is the absolute control given to the holders of these portfolios. For instance, Bhaal waving a hand and every assassin in the world supposedly dying. That being said, I THINK they have learned from this kind of heavy handed mistake. However, now that the gods are fed by faith... I don't see a need to make it be a need to "steal portfolios". You want to add love to your portfolio? Have your priesthood actively begin to setup matches. The Sunites don't like it? Well, maybe they setup better matches. Someone searching for love might pray to both of you. However, their fervence will go to the one that truly found them love, and they'll tell all their friends how much "deity X" helped them find love.
As to Zehir, as I said, if his story sucks... rip him out... I honestly don't know how he was used. However, if there's some interesting Zehir/Sseth/Set controversy that can be setup, great. If the followers of Set show up and kill the high priest of Zehir in every temple (and there's probably not 800 of them.... I'm betting less than 100) and tell the faithful to switch to Set though... should be an easy switch.
One of the things that you would see in this kind of thing with multiple deities would be a return to deities being killable by mortals (because if there's more gods, there's less faith energy to support said gods), though there might be rules set in place where only demi-gods can be permanently slain by mortals. It would also be fairly common that new faiths rising up would be actively sought out by deities who share portfolios (so things like Zehir showing up wouldn't be unusual... neither would his temples being destroyed and his followers either slain or converted). Unfortunately, this would also mean the death of deities, which is what we see people complaining about (OMG, Bhaal is gone... I hate Cyric... why'd they kill Eilistraee.... etc....). That being said, we've all seen deities come back (rolls the dice.... come on LEIRA!!!!). |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 12:12:20
Zehir has already appeared in a video and in a ,surprisingly good, book so I think the question of whether he was originally an interloper or not is now moot. Thus I feel that as long as he is interesting addition to the realms, why not keep him around? |
| Demzer |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 12:00:33
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
It gets rid of the messy problem of "god x over x portfolio died... now x isn't working in the realms anymore". I mean, if the god of fire dies, we don't have fire go wonky in the realms.... he can just be a deity with a strong link to fire, and there can be a second deity with a similar link.
Is this some conclusion you and others came to or is this canonical information? This doesn't seem true to me and disproved more than one time in the Realms. The only link to this theory is the fact every time Mystr-- died magic got wonkey but that's because she *IS* the matrix of magic. Kossuth isn't fire, Istishia isn't water, Shaundakul isn't travel and Waukeen isn't trade.
The Netheres had no god of necromancers and a lot of necromancers and necromantic spells. Waukeen is the deity of commerce and has way less than 2 thousands years of life, yet i bet you whatever you want the batrachi and the sarrukh had merchants of some kind in their time. When Helm died guards, watchposts and gates all over Toril didn't suddendly drop dead or crumble to dust, when Bane died people kept fearing monsters and the disasters the ToT brought to Toril and i'm sure tyrannical rulers didn't suddenly start being benevolent (and his portfolio was reassigned later, so it was "vacant" until the end of the ToT). When Myrkul died and before Cyric got the seat, the Fugue Plane didn't dissolve into nothingness and souls kept traveling there.
The problem with Zehir is not only that he is redundant but that having him do anything just because he happens to be in the Realms for an oversight/misunderstanding is a show of disrespect for Set, Sseth, Merrshaulk, Amphisbaena, Talona, Kiputytto and Bhaal (and whichever other Sarrukh/Yuan-ti/Naga god i forgot about). Each of which, by virtue of having an interesting backstory and strong ties to the Realms, is hundreds of times more deserving of any attention given to assassins, poisons or scalykind.
"The more the merrier" is good when each one does something, not with everyone being the same in another skin and doing things one at a time. |
| Gyor |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 11:34:03
They're restoring Gods, not killing them in 5e and after Venom in her Viens its too late to get rid of Zehir, he's made an appearance. Honestly I kind of like the competition between Zehir and Sseth, soon to become the competition between Zehir, Sseth, Set, and possibly other serepent Gods like that good one whose name I forget. Jadz or something, he created Courtels or something. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 11:21:05
I've said it once, I'll say it again... I don't see the problem with multiple gods sharing portfolios. It gets rid of the messy problem of "god x over x portfolio died... now x isn't working in the realms anymore". I mean, if the god of fire dies, we don't have fire go wonky in the realms.... he can just be a deity with a strong link to fire, and there can be a second deity with a similar link.
That being said, I have not a single clue of anything that was done with Zehir. If the plot that they did was stupid... sure, let him go.... if not, well, I'm all for non-human deities. The more the merrier. |
| Tyrant |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 05:38:39
I know some folks have explained it but I still have a hard time believing Zehir was a mistake in the game since the plot is about his rise to power and attempt to get the Yuan Ti to worship him instead of the other serpent deities. The game is literally his intro to the Realms. The plot just doesn't work with an existing god.
As for keeping him, I say keep him. He was used in a video game and a decent novel giving him more exposure than just about any other serpent god. Then again I think the Yuan Ti and their gods are criminally underused in the Realms. Snake people that can appear human who's whole deal is infiltrating and dominating groups from within? People/creatures/groups doing that is like a foundational plot point of the Realms. |
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