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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Gary Dallison Posted - 28 Jul 2017 : 09:05:03
So my latest project is coming to an end and id like to get back into developing the realms (this time im going to use a website - wordpress).

Im going to start with one of my favourite regions - the old empires (just mulhorand and unther for now). In only doing original realms (up to 1370s)

First up is a request for any copies of the pages from the wotc website that were to do with mulhorand or unther (or thay). I know i copied the main article for the portals articles but i often missed out the linked pages for important characters in those articles. So if anyone has any copies of portal articles and their linked pages id be very grateful.

And while im at it, does anyone have any suggestions or ideas that would be nice to see explored. For example i always wondered what the origins of the enclave were.

Im hoping to develop the region as much as i possibly can so a few extra ideas are always useful.


Edit

Below are the list of links to pages detailed so far in the Old Empires region


Home Page

Some of my own rules I've been working on
ARRGS Classes
ARRGS Magic
ARRGS Magic Items
ARRGS Options
ARRGS Races
ARRGS Skills


Running the Realms
Divinity

Faerunian Pantheon
Entropy
Tchazzar

Mulho-Untheric Pantheon
Mulho-Untheric Pantheon
Ass-Uraqn
Gil-Geamesq
Horus-Re
Ish-Tarri
Ram-Manu
Sebek
Set
TiaMa'at


Organisation
The Church of the Sky Father
The Church of Hoar
The Church of Ish-Tarri
The Church of Ram-Manu
The Cult of the Old Gods
The Cult of the Queen of Chaos
The Cult of the Smiling Death
The Enclave
The Eternal Claws
The Northern Wizards


NPCs
Old Empires NPCs
Maladraedior
Meiandringolousaert
Nezram
Seh-Om


Races
Humans
Dwarves
Rakshasa
Spellweavers


Regions
Chessenta
Luthcheq
Akanax
Airspur
Mulhorand
Skuld
Raurin
Unther
Dalath
Messemprar
Nissel (Red Haven)
Niz'Jaree (Firetrees)
Shussel
Ssintar
Unthalass
25   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
sleyvas Posted - 23 Oct 2019 : 22:43:50
Yeah, even if we just go with the idea that people got in the habit of naming their children after gods (even dead gods), there's way too many coincidences of names from the Sumerian / Babylonian Pantheons appearing down in Zakhara via either the supplements or the complete book of necromancers. To my knowledge, we don't have any definitive canon lore of Mulan people's going to Zakhara, but I have a strong feeling that there was another tribe besides the Mulhorandi and Untheric peoples.

Ironically, there are a large number of powerful people in realmslore who are named after these deities, making one think that perhaps they are "god-kings"/incarnations. By that, I note this Inanna, there was also a "lamia noble" beneath Unther named Ereshkigal, there was a genasi named Ningal in Unther, and then of course Gilgeam coming back and the return of nanna-sin. This does kind of fit with the "story" we're seeing in the sword coast adventurer's guide... for what it says is happening in Mulhorand... but its actually the Sumerian/Babylonian names that you see appearing more in "mortals who are powerful and influential". Again though, a simplistic explanation of that could simply be that people liked naming children after the gods (look at Jesus being used as a common Mexican name, and how many "common" names in English are influential names in the bible).
Baltas Posted - 23 Oct 2019 : 15:47:46
It's also curious Kazerabet, despite being a Neceomancer, also is specifically described as having a fondness for summoning baatezu to her aid.

This is interesting, as Inanna had her realm in Baator...

sleyvas Posted - 21 Oct 2019 : 22:36:50
regarding what you just described (Loviatar taking over portfolios from Inanna), I would say that's a very likely truth. I would say that the being that became Ishtar took only the goodly side considering how she's described. Ishtar then later gave her power to Isis.

However, I never saw THAT link of Kazerabet to the name Inanna..... man, I really need to look at that Zakhara stuff again now that I've studied a little more. She comes to Ysawis, "city of the dead", and becomes its queen. This is ripe for some "gods reborn in human form" theories.
Baltas Posted - 20 Oct 2019 : 17:59:44
Also, I was reminded of this bit from the Book of Necromancers (which also Includes the Iron Spires of Ereshkigal), were Loviathar takes on the role of Inanna/Ishtar, specifically from Inanna's Descent into the Underworld, and a bit of the Epic of Gilgamesh:
quote:
When Our Lady of Pain discovered her sister had left the Land of the Living and taken refuge in the World of the Dead, her wrath and fury were boundless. She descended to the Land of No Return, through the caverns and
lower regions known only to this spirits, until she reached the city of Erkalla itself, ruled by Cyric, the King of the Dead. And Loviatar approached the gate of the city, known as Ganzir, and pounded her Flail of Tears on the door, demanding to be let in, but her command was unanswered, and her screams resounded through the streets of Erkalla:

"Gatekeeper, I am here at Ganzir before the Walls of Erkalla. Open these gates for me! I am Loviatar, Maiden of Pain, Mistress of Sorrow, and I shall smash down this door if you do not open it! I shall crack open the
bolts with my Flail of Tears and sunder the iron with my Scourge of Despair. I shall release all the dead from city of Erkalla, and they shall climb up the stairs of the earth. I shall raise up the dead, and they shall eat the living: the dead shall outnumber the living!"

And the Gatekeeper appeared, and he opened the door, but he would not let Our Lady pass: "Mighty Loviatar, Maiden of Pain, you cannot enter Erkalla with your symbols of Power. Leave them with me, and then you may visit the King."

Our Lady of Pain saw the truth in his words, and at the gate of the city, she stripped off her talismans. She gave up the Flail of Tears, surrendered the Scourge of Despair. She unwrapped her Robe of Severed Hands, and
coiled up her Whip of Countless Afflictions. She unwrapped the spiked wire from her hair and plucked out the needles from her nails.

And at last Loviatar was finished, and the Gatekeeper escorted her into Cyric's dismal palace. And the King of the Dead saw Our Lady humbled, and in his throne room of glory, he heard her complaint. Cyric made his
voice heard like a gavel of thunder, and he spoke loudly his judgment, with the following words:

"I am Cyric, Lord of Erkalla, and I welcome you to my pale domain. You have no power here in my most ancient city: over the dead only I am King. I have heard your request and will honor it. When you leave, your sister
shall accompany you. But each winter she will come back and visit me, and I shall return her to your side in the summer."

Our Lady of Pain heard his pronouncement, and she left gladly with her sister beside her. Thus Loviatar ascended from the netherworld, resuming her just punishment of Man.
"Loviatar's Descent into the Netherworld,"


Even the sister of Loviatar isn't specified as Kiputytto, some theorizing it's Ereshkigal. (With Loviatar taking on Inanna's role as Ereshkigal's sister, like she did to take Inanna's role in this story.)

I think it might be also a clue Loviatar (when she was a Demigoddess roaming the Realms) absorbed Inanna, or stole her portfolio during or after the Orcgate Wars, or her worshipers converted a number some of Inanna's worshipers. Inanna was also a Lawful Evil deity, and it's possible this is were Loviatar got the sexual aspects of her pain portfolio, while loosing her mythological connection to disease.

Then again, from the same book, we also have Kazerabet, born as Innana az-Khunjhati al-Hilmi, if much after Inanna's death, ie in mid12th century DR.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Kazerabet

She was born in Hilm, Zakhara, but as we explored, there is a connection between Unther (And Mulhorand) and Zakhara, via early Mulan.
Gary Dallison Posted - 02 Jul 2019 : 20:34:24
Odd discovery in Prophet of Moonshae.

Over 1700 years ago Gotha was terrorising the world. Then 237 years ago he flies north over the Endless Wastes and the Sunrise Mountains (although that direction would be a north westerly flight i think) to some ice land where he is imprisoned.

The direction of his flight makes me think that Gotha laired around Mulhorand or perhaps one of the Dragon Overlords of the south (Shaar, etc)
Baltas Posted - 01 Jul 2019 : 19:55:16
I'm glad you liked my idea, and yeah Sune being Ishtar's/Ish-Tarri's daughter works.
Gary Dallison Posted - 01 Jul 2019 : 16:22:30
I know Sune has completely undeveloped origins by anyone so I'm more than happy to throw a few into the mix.

I have already decided Ishtars fate but I have children of the gods, and the first and second generation are almost as powerful as demigod in their own right, so I might use Ish-Une as a children of Ish-Tarri who flees across the inner sea when Gilgeam takes charge.
Baltas Posted - 01 Jul 2019 : 14:42:31
I understand.

I think I should warn with the Brimstone Angels series, while good, Enlil only appears in the last two books, of a 6 novel long series.

Also, with Ishtar/Ish-Tarri - I know you gave her a story, but I wonder if Ishtar couldn't have become Sune, or an entity that split from her, or a former follower of Ishtar/Ish-Tarri.

(There is precedence Ishtar "fragmenting", as in lore she and Inanna split.)

There is very little known about Sune - her first known follower is noted to be from 2000 years ago (Champions of Ruin). While the stories of the artifact known as "the Sash of Sune", appear as far as 3000 years ago according to "Prayers to the Faithful", the same book mentions item is first wholly and reliably
identified in "Travels of Aruugh" chapbook from 1100 years ago (1000 years ago before the 4E timeskip), and it's possible the Shash of Sune, was known as the Sash of Ishtar before that, or was unrelated to her before that, possibly being relate to a another love goddess the theoretical proto-Sune/Ishtar subsumed/absorbed.

While the wiki states also Ishtar left Unther after Enlil did (-734 DR, curiously about 200 years ago), it was never written so in official lore, from what I checked, although I might be wrong.

This could also explain why Sune saved Sharess/Bast from Shar - when she was Ishtar (or part of her was Ishtar), they allies or maybe even friends. (Although this could be changed into politics of worshipers of Shar, Sharess/Bast and Sune.)

There is also though also an slight implication Sune, despite her (not allays though) described humanocentrism, might have some Fey origins, seeing the spell she gives "Merge with Nature" allows her cleric to permanently become a Dryad, but this might be due to Ishtar subsuming/absorbing/merging with a Fey (demi?) goddess/Archfey of beauty, love or lust, maybe even Verenestra.
Gary Dallison Posted - 30 Jun 2019 : 18:07:07
I will go back and read the mulhorand and unther related novels as I found in the moonshae books there is some inspiration to be found in them, it just needs twisting and ungodifying.

The big problem is that I don't think there is a mulhorand or unther set of books like with the moonshae. I would imagine there are a number of novels that might touch upon the region, a number of other unrelated books that might be set there, and then the brimstone Angel's series of books.

It will take me a while to figure out which novels to read first, unless someone can already point them out.
Baltas Posted - 30 Jun 2019 : 14:58:44
Haha, yeah I think I think this topic got derailed a bit, all due to Kazgoroth.

Maybe we'll continue this on the Moonshae thread.

But returning to the Old Empires, the novels from the Brimstone Angels series, Ashes of the Tyrant and The Devil You Know show some pretty interesting information on, and characterization of Enlil, the most he got in Forgotten Realms, or even in D&D, at least in terms of personality, as well as adding some Unther lore.
Gary Dallison Posted - 30 Jun 2019 : 09:42:05
Thankfully because the eladrin are mercenaries they can be found all over the planes in great tribes. A large number definitely followed the seldarine (I'm also considering if a number followed araushnee) when they left. So there presence everywhere and participation in major planar events is not a problem.

How they are made I'm not quite sure. The leshay I used the ancient empire origin but made them a leftover of the original universe before it shattered into the multi verse (like illithids) a faeree is the remnants of that universe.

It makes sense for the eladrin to be made of souls, however faeree is not one of the outer planes so souls don't go there when their bodies die, and Fey don't seem like the soul stealing kind. However I am defining a soul as positive energy given form, the experiences in its life allow it to grow and expand (experience) and faeree is a transitive plane between the material and the positive energy plane (shadow is a transitive plane between the material and the negative energy plane), so it's entirely possible that the leshay just took positive energy and moulded it into the eladrin.

At least that's my take on the planes and eladrin, which has far more to do with my moonshae thread than my old empires thread.
Baltas Posted - 29 Jun 2019 : 23:52:47
Well, I can understand you having a different take on it, especially that the LeShay coming from Corellon, might just a legend by Seldarine worshiping elves - especially how it's worded.

Although I found it interested the Moonshae Isles Regional Guide explored more the lore of LeShay and their connection to elves, with them being closest to the Primal Elves (even kinda similar to your idea of Drine), and suggesting how many Archfey are likely of LeShay origins (which also can work with idea Seldarine were LeShay or a cloeslly related fey/elven group, seeing as shown with Deep Sashelas
becoming an Archfey after he temporarily lost his divinity.)

With Eladrin, in 4E seemingly the writers in a large part re-used the Eladrin name for more "immortal and fey high elves", probably due to the (probably intentional) resemblance of the Eladrin name to Tolkien's Eldar, as a result merging the the celestial Eladrin with the Fey High Elves, up to using the names and concepts of coure, bralani, and ghaele.

(They done something similar, but more extreme with Elemental Archons in 4E, who also had little connection to past Celestial Archons.)

Your take makes a lot more sense, and I general quite like it.

I also had LeShay not being Corellon's creations, with a very similar idea to your Drine, but I wasn't sure about the connection with the CG Outsider Eladrin. But I also thought the Fey ancestors of Eladrin somehow took Arborea and established the current generation of CG outsiders - I had the same done with Batrachi taking over Limbo and causing the creation of Slaadi.

(As while Outsiders are created from petitioner souls, there is precedence for such things - Baatezu overtaking Ancient Baatorians, and changing how Petitioners souls work on Baator, some Nupperibo
notwithstanding; or first Erinyes, and Succubi being fallen angels, and first Gelugons being Yuggoloths etc.)
Gary Dallison Posted - 29 Jun 2019 : 20:09:08
I took a slightly different tack and tried to merge all the lore into one.

Eladrin in 2e and 3e were strange extraplanar beings that looked like elves but had definite Fey leanings and were substantially more powerful than elves.

4e turned eladrin into elves or elves into eladrin, no idea why but that was all I could stomach to find out.

The seldarine are gods of the elves but were not always so, and they are or were undoubtedly powerful. They supposedly created elves.


So mixing them all together I have a race called the drine, they look a bit elf like but are powerful and fey and immortal.

The drine are split into two groups. The selahdrine, who are lords of the drine
They include the leshay and at one time included the seldarine (before they became hods).

The elahdrine are the children of the selahdrine. They are split into various tribes that represent aspects of nature, they have different powers and forms in these aspects but can change into a different type as events warrant and alter their mood.

The elves are descended from the elahdrine who migrated to toril millennia ago, each generation being less and less powerful as they are further removed from faeree.


Its rough so far but it hopefully unites all the lore and allows me to explain various events on early faerun (no way a few elves took on all those dragons at the end of the thousand years war, but eladrin could have).
Baltas Posted - 29 Jun 2019 : 18:32:56
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

The recent DM's Guild Moonshae work by Eric Menge and ors. provides a good insight into the nature of Kazgoroth.

-- George Krashos



I must say, some pretty great stuff in the Moonshae Isles Regional Guide.

It has really works that Kazgoroth just kinda uses the gods he served, especially seeing he was portrayed as very cunning being.

It also has some pretty interesting other information, like LeShay being the descendants of the first Primal Elves, that the book states sprout from Corellon's blood, and that they are "the closest among the eladrin to being reincarnated as an Archfey".
Gary Dallison Posted - 25 Jun 2019 : 08:10:47
I do like that they made him less of a slave to the gods and more an occasional servant when it suited his own agenda.

I of course prefer my own interpretation that kazgoroth is actually one of the eatthmothers children and is serving her aims (and his own) and that the humanoid have got the wrong idea about the balance (humanoid disrupt the balance and are to be eliminated). But everyone prefers their own ideas and I know my interpretation if the gods is at odds with everyone else's.

I personally would not link kazgoroth to any other reptilian deity, but that's because I don't see pantheons as global spanning deific constructs but instead view them as social constructs with no real connection to anything else.

The people determine what they worship, the gods they worship are unrelated to gods elsewhere unless specifically that religion travelled (with people) from one region to another. So while the mulhorandi or turami have no real connection to the talfir or tethyrian of the moonshae isles then there can be no connection between the beings they worship.
George Krashos Posted - 25 Jun 2019 : 04:01:23
The recent DM's Guild Moonshae work by Eric Menge and ors. provides a good insight into the nature of Kazgoroth.

-- George Krashos
Baltas Posted - 24 Jun 2019 : 16:37:59
Well, yes Kazgoroth is mysterious. While he is called an aspect of Malar, and is connected to lycanthropy, Kazgoroth is far more into manipulation and subterfuge than Malar.

Kazgoroth was also described as an aspect of Bhaal, although also called his servant, or minion, like Malar was then.

Still, there are visible differences.

If Kazgoroth though, is Haaashastaak or maybe his aspect I would guess he was severally corrupted.

Kazgoroth might also be just another Reptile Lord, who got corrupted, like the Blue Bear totem of Uthgardt, who also got subsumed/absorbed by Malar.

With Set, I discovered that in the Gods, Demi-Gods & Heroes, which had both the Egyptian and Hyborian (Conan) pantheons, and the book explicitly stated Set of the Egyptian pantheon and Father Set/Set the Serpent God are the same.

Ed himself in his setting, presented Set based on his Father Set interpretation, (with Mulhorand being more like Stygia - the country from Robert Howard's Conan novels not the plane to be clear).

I mention this, as this shows I think how Ssseth being Set, is actually close to Ed's vision, and has actually a bass in D&D canon (seeing Sseth is obviously inspired by Father Set.)
sleyvas Posted - 19 Jun 2019 : 01:57:47
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmm, so is Kazgoroth of the Moonshaes



They might be related, although Kazgoroth of the Moonshaes is connected to the Earthmother and Malar. It's possible Haaashastaak is connected to the Earthmother, as are other Beast Lords, with Kazgoroth being a product of Malar trying to subsume Haaashastaak, before Sebek.





Just to note, Kazgoroth is connected to a LOT of gods (more than I ever realized until last year). He's been connected to Malar, Talos, and Bhaal. I'd also note, he could fit in very well with Zaltec of the Maztican pantheon. I wouldn't be surprised if he's some old entity who has been forced to take on various roles to survive, working for deities who are more prevalent today. But, if the deity looked like a T-Rex, and Kazgoroth is a "divine being" that looks like a T-Rex, then it make sense to possibly think they either the same being under another name OR somehow related.
Gary Dallison Posted - 18 Jun 2019 : 11:05:04
I do enjoy reading the real world myths you guys find. I'm probably not going to use any of it (I consider anything that didn't happen on toril to not have happened at all).

But I am going to look at making the beast cult having stumbled onto sarrukh ruins before set encountered them, meaning that he deliberately targeted this cult to acquire the power their patron beast (a quasi deity) possessed.


As an aside, I've been toying with myrkul (as a mortal) having learned some of sets knowledge and followed in his footsteps a bit. Set after all studies much of the lore of imaskar and was the greatest mage of his age (in my version anyway). That's why the other mulan heroes politically exiled him, as they feared his power and that he would go bad like the imaskar. This in turn made him resentful and turned against the mulan heroes seeking revenge.
Baltas Posted - 17 Jun 2019 : 23:23:45
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Well you are very close to what I've already done with Set, although I made Typhon one of the beast cults from the endless wastes (a jackal cult) mostly because the name didn't sound very sarrukh.

After reading all the old empires material I made a number of spurious links. Firstly that set was the unnamed divine precept of the land that would be Thay. This means he had ready access to a host of sarrukh ruins. At some point he encountered the guardian of the ruins (I think I chose mdaess) and kills it, gaining some of its power (I figure combat between quasi deities is a bit like highlander) and that starts him off becoming more snake like.

He then sets out finding more about the sarrukh, transforming himself gradually. He sets off the orcgate wars, unintentionally loses the civil war and eventually leaves mulhorand following a portal network that takes him to isstosseffifil and merrshaulk.

So even Set begins as not a baddie and just a normal human



Well, I get you point, although Typhon was known as "Typhoeus" as much Typhon:
https://www.theoi.com/Gigante/Typhoeus.html

Which is a slightly more Sarrukh name.


Although I like Set's "demon-jackal" form is from him subsuming Typhon, seeing the Set Animal was known as the "Typhonian animal" or "Typhonic beast".

Although I would suggest Typhon as a beast cult deity, was fiendish in nature. This would explain why he looked so, even kinda fiendish in nature (ie forked tail), and it did happen in past (the Blue Beard spirit became fiendish, after being corrupted by demons, Zanassu was worshiped by Spider Beast cult, as was Lolth when the Forgotten Realms debuted.).

With Mulan Gods (of Akanu, Unther and Mulhorand), while them not starting out as gods, I think an idea could be with them startig out as being 4E Devas, who were even connected with Mulhorand and Unther in canon, or something similar:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Deva_(aasimar)
http://dustin.wikidot.com/devas

Although I get if you would prefer to keep them human.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I must say, I like THIS idea. Since Mornach seems to have no basis in anything that I've been able to research, having Mornach be another name to Ragarra could make sense. Of course, if Set and Ragarra/Mornach did mate, it would have caused conflict with him and Shajar (Ragarra's hippopotamus headed mate, a river god who represented both life giving qualities and death dealing properties in the form of floods). Shajar being animal headed like other Mulhorandi gods would make him also fit in the pantheon. Perhaps like Ereshkigal, there was a falling out between the various Mulan deities and a third faction led folk down into Zakhara. This could account for several gods (Shajar, Ereshkigal, Ragarra, the cat huntress called Kiga the Predator, and even the elephant headed god known only as the Lost One).



Glad you like my idea, and I also believe Mornach might be Ragarra, and I also think part of the Mulan gods (or related gods like Mornach/Ragarra), migrated to Zakhara (as you mentioned), ie Shajar, Ereshkigal, Ragarra and possibly the Lost one. Although I think the Lost One might be from Maltara and/or Utter East - Ganesha or related deity.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmm, so is Kazgoroth of the Moonshaes



They might be related, although Kazgoroth of the Moonshaes is connected to the Earthmother and Malar. It's possible Haaashastaak is connected to the Earthmother, as are other Beast Lords, with Kazgoroth being a product of Malar trying to subsume Haaashastaak, before Sebek.

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

I feel kind of bad for Sobek; he went from a relatively important deity in myth to simply being Set's toady in the Realms, when in reality one of his myths had him aiding Isis in putting back Osiris together again.

As for Set himself, I'm of the opinion that his real beef is with Horus, Osiris, Isis and possibly Anubis (mitigated now that Anubis has left the pantheon and gone on to become the Guardian of Dead Gods). He's still a valued member of his pantheon, charged with the protection of Ra against Apep whenever the sun god passes through the Twelve Hours of Night. Apep himself shouldn't be a demigod; he should be the pantheon's equivalent of Tharizdun, only people are crazy enough to sail through his prison domain.




Well, Sebek relationship with Set soured, and his more of an ally, than his minion by now. As I wrote before, Forgotten Realms Sebek has an alternate origin compared to real life Sebek - was was spawned in the Realms, a result of Set's relationship with the Archfey Mornarch, when he was already on Toril. So Toril! Sebek is essentially a separate being from Earth! Sebek.

Set's demonization, is a result of how influential fiction depicted him - for example Robert Howard's Father Set, which conflated Set, with Apep, if due to Set's conflation with Typhon by the Greeks and Hellenized Egyptian religion.

About that - indeed, Set's conflation with Typhon, seems to be origin of him becoming an outright god of evil, and gaining serpentine traits - as Typhon was a serpentine dragon-demon, with depending on description, hundred dragon/serpent heads, hundreds dragon heads for hands, or hundreds of dragon tails for legs, or all of these at the same this. This an accurate depiction of Typhon, for example:
http://fav.me/d7txly5

Typhon himself, was basically the equivalent of Tharizdun.
Gary Dallison Posted - 16 Jun 2019 : 09:26:03
To me Sebek's role is only minor because he has not been developed or used hardly at all. In fact the roles of the mulhorandi gods (despite them having a physical form and being able to interact directly with it) are seriously underdeveloped.

The mulan pantheon take part in the orcgate wars (with often little more detail than that) and a bunch of them die. Then there is Osiris' death and Horus claims the throne and then nothing.
Sebeks role in all of these events is a detailed.

So I've set about giving him more detail to hopefully make him more significant and more interesting.
Yes he is still manipulated into doing some stupidly brutal stuff, and he voluntarily does even more stupid stuff, but his actions are significant.
Sebek is responsible for spawning a cult and a new type of monster that is the scourge of southern mulhorand and chessenta.
I'm going to make him into an unwitting lackey of the sarrukh, but that doesn't take away from the fact that this huge monstrosity has kept the area around lake azulduth and the adder swamp an undeveloped and under explored wilderness, thus keeping sarrukh strongholds and ruins safe from further plundering.
LordofBones Posted - 16 Jun 2019 : 06:11:00
I feel kind of bad for Sobek; he went from a relatively important deity in myth to simply being Set's toady in the Realms, when in reality one of his myths had him aiding Isis in putting back Osiris together again.

As for Set himself, I'm of the opinion that his real beef is with Horus, Osiris, Isis and possibly Anubis (mitigated now that Anubis has left the pantheon and gone on to become the Guardian of Dead Gods). He's still a valued member of his pantheon, charged with the protection of Ra against Apep whenever the sun god passes through the Twelve Hours of Night. Apep himself shouldn't be a demigod; he should be the pantheon's equivalent of Tharizdun, only people are crazy enough to sail through his prison domain.
sleyvas Posted - 15 Jun 2019 : 19:42:58
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Haaashastaak, also was described in the 1E Deities of Demigods as appearing as a giant T-Rex - the artist of the Melnibonean mythos, Jeff Dee even drew him after years in 2012:
http://fav.me/d515k4t




Hmmm, so is Kazgoroth of the Moonshaes
sleyvas Posted - 15 Jun 2019 : 19:39:14
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Mornach could also be connected with Zakhara's Ragarra, who is quite similar to Sebek:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ragarra

As we discussed in the past, there are some connections between Zakhara and Unther and Mulhorand (ie the Iron Spires of Ereshkigal, was a ruined city found on the isle of Sahu in east Zakhara).

Or that's just my ideas



I must say, I like THIS idea. Since Mornach seems to have no basis in anything that I've been able to research, having Mornach be another name to Ragarra could make sense. Of course, if Set and Ragarra/Mornach did mate, it would have caused conflict with him and Shajar (Ragarra's hippopotamus headed mate, a river god who represented both life giving qualities and death dealing properties in the form of floods). Shajar being animal headed like other Mulhorandi gods would make him also fit in the pantheon. Perhaps like Ereshkigal, there was a falling out between the various Mulan deities and a third faction led folk down into Zakhara. This could account for several gods (Shajar, Ereshkigal, Ragarra, the cat huntress called Kiga the Predator, and even the elephant headed god known only as the Lost One).
Gary Dallison Posted - 15 Jun 2019 : 09:33:09
Well you are very close to what I've already done with Set, although I made Typhon one of the beast cults from the endless wastes (a jackal cult) mostly because the name didn't sound very sarrukh.

After reading all the old empires material I made a number of spurious links. Firstly that set was the unnamed divine precept of the land that would be Thay. This means he had ready access to a host of sarrukh ruins. At some point he encountered the guardian of the ruins (I think I chose mdaess) and kills it, gaining some of its power (I figure combat between quasi deities is a bit like highlander) and that starts him off becoming more snake like.

He then sets out finding more about the sarrukh, transforming himself gradually. He sets off the orcgate wars, unintentionally loses the civil war and eventually leaves mulhorand following a portal network that takes him to isstosseffifil and merrshaulk.

So even Set begins as not a baddie and just a normal human

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