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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Markustay Posted - 30 Mar 2017 : 19:39:46
So I'm extremely annoyed right now - my power flashed on and off at my house and I lost the original post, which had a continuation of my thoughts in the Liam's hold thread. Ah, well. In the mean-time, I posted a map because I needed it as a reference of what I was talking about in that thread (I had both threads open and typed-into for the thread cross-over, and lost it all {sigh}. The map made it up on DeviantART before I lost power, so there's that. Enjoy

Daggeford region in the 3e map style.

This is the map I did for Erik Boyd for Under Illefarn Anew, but its been several years, and I see no harm in posting it now. I rougher version made the rounds at Gencon 2012. This one lines up with the High Forest map I did later, but I'm still holding that one back.
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
PartyLikeIts1372 Posted - 11 Aug 2017 : 23:35:55

Daggeford region in the 3e map style.

Thanks for this awesome piece of work Markustay. I think you said you might put this on DMsGuild. I hope you do so I can give you some dollars and five-star review. This map is my go-to for a new Daggerford Campaign. From my handle, here, you can tell I'm rather partial to the 3e realms, and a big part of that is the clean, uncluttered map style that you replicate so well.

Anywho, THANKS!
Duneth Despana Posted - 30 Jun 2017 : 11:51:17
Thanks!
'Crown of Eaerlann' ... makes one dream. You lucky, you, to have the chance to read through such forbidden lore (well earned I might say given all your work around the Realms).

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos



From the guy who named a dragon Krashos Morueme.



-- George Krashos



LOL!
George Krashos Posted - 28 Jun 2017 : 13:14:30
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I also had a Schendivar... but Erik felt that one was TOO obvious.



From the guy who named a dragon Krashos Morueme.



-- George Krashos
Markustay Posted - 27 Jun 2017 : 23:57:52
The name of the RW cartographer was Dennis Kauth, and although he didn't know who I was, I owe him much. I'm not sure if there was ever a FR name given for the cartographer; let me check the entry...

quote:
Crown of Eaerlann, © Erik Boyd
Kauth (Hamlet, 96): Situated midway between Zelbross
and Loudwater along the Delimbiyr Route, this quiet hamlet is
known for its decorative coaches, much favored by nobles in
far-­off Waterdeep, built by master wainwrights. Kauth is
named for the master mapmaker who once dwelled here,
whose signature adorns the most famous maps of the North.

So it appears the FR Cartographer had the same name as the RW one, but I would say in FR that was a first name, not a surname (as it is in RW). I might call him 'Kauth the khartêsian' (khartês being an ancient word for 'map').
Duneth Despana Posted - 27 Jun 2017 : 21:23:40
That's great! (you must know this, but there's also a Kauth alley in Daggerford)... say you wouldn't happen to know the realms name of that cartographer?
Markustay Posted - 27 Jun 2017 : 16:25:48
Kauth is tiny settlement that is only famous because it was home of one of the greatest cartographer's in realms history. After he died, his entire collection was transported to candlekeep, but many think he had 'secret maps' stashed away somewhere, and adventurers occasionally poke around Kauth looking for them... much to the townsfolk's annoyance.

Erik and I had decided to add that as a homage to the creator of the original 3e Campaign map, who's worked I emulated for years. he had passed away just when I was starting the Daggerford/Under Illefarn Anew project.


I also had a Schendivar... but Erik felt that one was TOO obvious.
Duneth Despana Posted - 26 Jun 2017 : 21:07:45
Fantastic map! Really makes me want to set my next campaign in that area! ... say, I never heard about Kauth before (north of zelbross). Or maybe that's a question for Eric?
Markustay Posted - 02 May 2017 : 16:06:50
quote:
Originally posted by LordXenophon

Funny you should mention Illefarn, the day after my players decided to go there. Do you happen to know the name of the Dwarven ruin under it?
Runedardath
LordXenophon Posted - 02 May 2017 : 14:03:36
Funny you should mention Illefarn, the day after my players decided to go there. Do you happen to know the name of the Dwarven ruin under it?
Markustay Posted - 01 May 2017 : 19:40:02
Warmer months AND winter are fine. Its only when you get all the run-off from the various mountains dumping into the River Shining that the river swells (I'd say about 10' above normal - thats what i based everything off of for that map), and that's only 'early spring' except in weird circumstances like what happened when the Shades returned - half of Daggerford was underwater!

During the exceptional hot months, and when there's very little rain, even on the 'dredged' end of the town ships need to be careful - that river is very large, and has hundreds of tributaries (most we don't even see on maps), so there is a LOT of fluctuation with high high it gets. Thats why I also created the completely non-canon 'Demonlight', which functions as both a lighthouse, and as a warning light for how deep the river is.

During times of severe drought, ships may even have to anchor near the caravan camping area over by the tannery, and bring their goods ashore via rowboat.

The Daggerford area is a most excellent campaign setting, and hopefully Eric's wonderful Under Illefarn Anew will find its way to everyone, perhaps through the DM's Guild (although he probably doesn't have time to convert it to 5e right now - someone mechanically inclined should team-up with him on that). I'm converting a LOT of video game material over to my Nentir Vale conversion map, and I got the idea from the work I did on this one (like that 'Daggerfort' outpost across the river - I should really throw the map key on at least that part).

I'll also be placing the stuff from the 5e DMG on it as well, when i get to this region again with my main project.
LordXenophon Posted - 01 May 2017 : 19:25:31
In my own campaign, I've been explaining the ford the other way around. You can get boats through in the warmer months, but in the winter, the water is low.
Markustay Posted - 01 May 2017 : 18:46:17
Which is pretty much what I did. The conversation started in the Liam's Hold thread, and ended here. Its pretty-much set in stone now.

Just click on the link above - it shows the bridge between two hills.

I 'solved' the ford by putting it at the halfway point where the town meets the river. It used to be at 'the old road', but since that time the town has the river dredged so that deep-water traffic may access its docks (up to that halfway point - everything to the east of that would just be river-boat traffic). This solves all problems, and doesn't really conflict with existing lore. This newer bridge would have been built right after the start-date of the 3e era, because the old bridge (and even some of the town) got 'washed away' with the coming of the Shades. Before that time, the river wasn't dredged, and only river boats could reach Daggerford (and even then, the ford would have been impassable during the spring-thaw months).
LordXenophon Posted - 01 May 2017 : 14:15:19
If the area is hilly, the ford can be in the low spot between hills, the bridge at the high point across two hills. If you need to, you can build two hills.

20' is all it takes to get an ordinary river barge through.

My own home town has a spot, where we used to have a bridge and a ford in the same spot, on a legally navigable river. The bridge rises another 15' or so, from the high bank of the river. The ford was just a strip of asphalt that you could drive across, when the river was dry. You had to go about 30' down an incline, cross the river and climb back up on the other side. The distance between the bridge and the ford was only a few feet.

That gets a lot easier, if you put a block or two between bridge and ford. The ford could be the mouth of a canyon, with the bridge over the canyon, on the hilly side of town.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 30 Apr 2017 : 05:00:24
quote:
Originally posted by LordXenophon

I see a lot of posts about making drawbridges, to explain how a bridge can cross a navigable river. In our own world, this was done for thousands of years, before drawbridges were invented. The usual method is to make the bridge high. It can cross where the land is high on both sides, such as in a canyon, or it can arch. The road can also be built up on both sides. Bridges with flat and level roads across them are a relatively recent invention.

Another thing to remember is that tall ships are also a relatively recent invention. It doesn't take all that high a bridge to get a raker or a drakkar under it. Clippers and galleons were never meant to sail rivers.



The problem is that if there is a ford there, then you don't have that deep of a river -- so a bridge to accommodate boat traffic has to be pretty dang tall... or a drawbridge.
Markustay Posted - 30 Apr 2017 : 04:50:43
Yeah, thats what I went with - the drawbridge idea was kinda cool, but it was too involved (for something with no previous lore), so I had gone with the same idea you just said. Here's what I got done -

Daggerford Area Map 1.0

I plan to come back to this, but I want to get the Nentir Vale conversion done, and then get by to the real project - remapping the Eastern Heartlands.
LordXenophon Posted - 30 Apr 2017 : 03:13:27
I see a lot of posts about making drawbridges, to explain how a bridge can cross a navigable river. In our own world, this was done for thousands of years, before drawbridges were invented. The usual method is to make the bridge high. It can cross where the land is high on both sides, such as in a canyon, or it can arch. The road can also be built up on both sides. Bridges with flat and level roads across them are a relatively recent invention.

Another thing to remember is that tall ships are also a relatively recent invention. It doesn't take all that high a bridge to get a raker or a drakkar under it. Clippers and galleons were never meant to sail rivers.
Markustay Posted - 11 Apr 2017 : 19:46:14
I've totally decided to do a DM's Guild thing with this, but I'm putting it aside for a bit to finish the conversion. I started getting side-tracked again doing individual buildings (just the important ones... although interiors for the entire town is a possibility, eventually), and before I go off the rails completely I have to rein myself in. In the mean time, I plan to have several one-off adventures connected to Daggerford and the Shining Vale (which I note WotC renamed 'the Shining Valley' (but it means the same thing LOL). As part of that, I will be updating some really old Dungeon Magazine adventures for that purpose, including one I plan to set in the ruins of Tavaray (expect a map of that city at some point, set in the swamp). I plan to make that a cliff-side city, and have been looking for art of that. Of course, it isn't on the cliffsides anymore - that entire region collapsed nearly all the way down to sea-level (and there will be lore to go with that - I needed to explain the changes to the maps between editions). Thats what happens when you dig too much into natural limestone caverns (Trogs and other slimeys take up residence in the ruins now). Not sure what group I want to connect the founding of the city too - I may have it be one, with a second joining later (still using the 'inaccurate reporting' style from 1e, to allow DMs to tweak it anyway they want). The Netherese and Jhaamdath are both contenders; the Netherese make more sense, but too much gets connected to them, and Jhaamdath needs some love (plus, I want it be a wee bit 'Greco' in style, so something connected to the the Chondathan people makes sense... I really love me some Togas!)

So, in the interum, here's what I am picturing for Tavaray in its heyday -

The Prelate's High Estate

How the ruins would have looked now, had the plateau not collapsed. (I put it that way, because clearly no-one is living in those now).

The City Tax Collector's Office Located on the western outskirts of the city, to catch ship traffic as it first enters Tavaray.)

Passing through the city in the days of yore

Northmen Raiders are treated to an unpleasant welcome at the mouth of the River Shining, a millennia ago

The once beautiful streets of Tavaray

The Sea Tower of Ilinyth (to the south of Tavaray, now also just a ruin)

Ignore the waterfalls at the bottom of that last one - that would just be the Sword Coast there. Elves once sailed to Evermeet from Ilinyth in the heyday of the Retreat, but it hasn't been used in hundreds of years.

EDIT:
The Miyeritari city of Gælavaar, now lost beneath the High Moor

Mystra's Dance, as it was during the time of Athalantar (now sunk further into the Sea)

The Gates of Tavaray

The city didn't actually sit on the coast (referencing Erik's notes on it now), so I will just have to say it sat in a natural 'bowl' along the gorge that holds the river (perhaps a section of the plateau that had collapsed at an earlier time? After all, most of Toril is pretty hollow, with the Underdark and all). A bowl they widened as the city grew.

So it makes some sense that the River Delimbiyr actually had a waterfall at one time when it reached the coast, perhaps even during the time of the Crown Wars, and the river cut a gorge into the limestone plateau over the course of thousands of years. By the time humans began settling The North, they would just think "It was always that way" (and from their point of view, it was). Whats interesting is that we have a similar situation just north where the Selpir empties into the Sevenfalls. Perhaps that, too, will 'collapse' given time.





Markustay Posted - 08 Apr 2017 : 02:32:53
More like "he takes creative license", or "he's not adverse to printing rumors and legends and claiming they are facts".

In other words, 1e/2e's "unreliable narrator" style of lore (which you'll note, despite Elminster's testimony to the contrary, is precisely what I am trying to emulate here).

Volo also wasn't above taking 'free stuff' from people and places he then wrote good reviews about.

EDIT:
Because of the wonky scale(s) we had over the years, I keep finding more and more weirdness. Erik Boyd had shifted some stuff around trying to make sense of it all, combining the two different map keys we had. One thing that happened is that the old stables became the barracks (which makes sense - it needed a barracks inside the caste walls). However, I never increased the size of it, mostly because I greatly increased the scale, which should have covered that problem.

But it didn't. At the original scale, that long building could have maybe handled 20 men at best, and thats a TIGHT fit. I actually went ahead and drew beds (to scale! Its kind of nice working at a scale I can actually draw individual pieces of furniture ). So now, by increasing the size of that old building I've managed to keep the 'look' of the original, and it can now manage a 102 soldiers (although most of the time it would not maintain such numbers).

Part of all this is remembering that Daggerford may be a 'a town', but its a crucial part of the Lord's Alliance, and strategically placed for several reasons, not the least of which being a mid-point between Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate. I plan to do an entire write-up of Daggerford at this point for 5e, using my (more logical) maps, and inserting all the lore from every edition (aside from borrowing from Eric's circa 1357 DR lore, I now have to add-in all the 4e and 5e lore, of which there is quite a bit more than I had realized, and backwards-engineer it to fit what Eric wrote). Thus, either late today or tomorrow I should have a write-up for the new barracks (there WILL be intrigue! It IS The Realms, after all...)
Zeromaru X Posted - 07 Apr 2017 : 22:12:03
lol, so Volo really fabricate stuff to sell books? And here I was thinking that Elminster was hard with him...
Markustay Posted - 07 Apr 2017 : 21:33:23
From Volarra's Guide to the Shining Vale
Other interesting aspects of the Daggerford waterfront are the tridocks and the fairly new Mikitan Shipyards¹. The Mikitan Co. has the largest covered drydocks on the Sword Coast, which allows them to work in nearly any sort of weather, and the facilities have full access to the river. Unlike most other building in the Waterfront district, the building has a solid stone foundation built by the local dwarves of Clan Ironaxe, and can easily withstand the seasonal flooding. Nearly all other buildings in the waterfront district (outside the walls of the city proper) are built on 'stilts', or rather, dock-like platforms set above the high-water mark, which can vary as much as 20' in particularly wet seasons (and has been known to go even higher a time or two, under extremely rare and dubious circumstances). Fortunately, the river rarely rises to even the 20' mark in recent years.

Which brings us to the Tridocks, the likes of which this traveler has not seen anywhere else. The docks are built on three levels, one at 10' above the low water mark (the normal height for such things, to allow for easy loading of cargo onto an off of ships), another at 20', and third at 30' above the low-water water height. All are treated with special alchemical substances to make them resistant to rot and water damage. This weird setup was only first hit upon a century ago, when the city was badly flooded and many engineers from outside were brought in to help with the problems. In the past, Daggerford had normal docks, which would sit 20' above the median point of the water. This meant that in dry seasons - like the late summer months - ships would actually sit a good ten feet or more below the docks, forcing the use of ladders and switch-back gangplanks just to move to and fro. In very rainy seasons with extreme run-off, the water could go right to dock itself, which was both dangerous for the ships to tie-up against and also made disembarking (and boarding) anything and anyone even more difficult than during dry spells. At the time, the height of the docks were determined to be the best possible compromise, allowing normal routines during at least half the year.

However, after the harbor area (and nearby bridge) were rebuilt in the late 1370's DR, the tridock system was hit-upon and implemented, with ramps going up and down every so often to allow easy access to each level. These days, mostly only the bottom two levels get used, and the town is considering removing the top pier, because it has become the home of piles of trash and vagrants. However, other groups within the town simply want it cleaned-up and repurposed, perhaps as a tourist area, or a place for lovers (and others) to take walks on the Riverfront. I must say, the view - especially of the magnificent bridge downstream - is beautiful from the top section... if one watches where one steps.


¹ Volarra is unaware that there was another Mikitan Shipbuilding facility at Daggerford over a century ago, but this closed down not long after the building of the first Tyndal Bridge, because without the sea traffic, the family just felt there wasn't enough business servicing just the riverboats that came to call on the town. They had relocated to Orlumbor, and had even had another facility built on the Inner sea, but that one was destroyed during the Wailing Years. Only a decade or so ago the family lost its lease on the property on Orlumbor and decided to return to their roots. The family specializes in building vessels with 'hidden compartments', and not really caring who the clients are, which has lead to the Lords Alliance placing at least one agent in their employ to keep watch on things. The family is, of course, aware of this... or, at least, aware of the one agent they are supposed to know about. – Elminster
Markustay Posted - 07 Apr 2017 : 18:06:31
From Volarra's Guide to the Shining Vale*
The pinkish granite for the Tyndal bridge (the 2nd Tyndal Bridge, actually; the original was built AT the ford, but only lasted maybe two decades - it was washed-away during the flooding that occurred when the Shades were melting the High Ice) was purchased and shipped downstream from Secomber (see VGttSC). The new(er) bridge was built at the site of an even more ancient bridge that had been built by the dwarves of Dardath, and the Rocleaver Engineering Co. (Rockcleaver Clan) out of Mirabar was contracted by the Lords of Waterdeep to build a new one, that would once-again allow sea-going trade for Daggerford.

As part of that project, the river was dredged up to about halfway across the shore of Daggerford, and a tiny artificial islet was created using the access material. A tower 50' tall and 10' round was built upon that isle with a warning beacon on the top called The Demon Light, because the builders fashioned it to look like a huge gargoyle that sits atop the tower with its eyes aglow. An enchantment was placed on it that causes the eyes glow bright green when the river is at its deepest, when the waters cover the 20' mark of the floodplain, and turn orange when the the waters are low - too low for most larger vessels to proceed any further upriver. They occasionally glow bright red as well, during exceptionally dry seasons, when the river is abnormally low and even river-craft need to proceed with caution.

Rumors persist that there is an additional enchantment on the Demon Light that would animate it in times of trouble, in order to help protect Daggerford, although this has never happened and there is no actual evidence that this is the case.¹

*Volarra is the granddaughter of the legendary Volo, who, despite her parents best efforts, decided to follow her grandfather's line of work.² With the reappearance of Volo himself in recent years, her books have lost some of their prestige, especially since Volo denies ever having been married and having any children, much to the woman's chagrin (and anger).


Elminster's notes:
¹ A rumor started by the council of Daggerford itself, which makes certain groups think twice about launching attacks against the town. I'm fairly certain there is no truth to it, but since Khelben was involved in the original enchanments, one never knows.

² There is one major difference between the two in their 'style' of writing - Volarra is a level-headed, no-nonsense woman who doesn't fabricate facts to fit her narrative (and sell more books), and is quite modest, unlike her pruning relative.

³ She IS his granddaughter - the scallywag fathered several children back in the day, but with his constant moving about, is not aware of this.
Markustay Posted - 07 Apr 2017 : 15:39:07
Krash, believe me, I will be getting back to that - its one of the first two maps in my new series, which has been put on a back-burner for the past three months.

There are so many interesting locales in the Forgotten Realms, I can't stay in one place!

This is something I never meant to do - I thought I was done with Daggerford. But there are so many interesting things about it, and also a few nagging inconsistencies/logic problems that I was never quite happy with. Another i Just realized was the ruins of Morlin castle - I was wondering why they were placed a ways away from the current castle on that map (when lore says otherwise), and then I recalled the discussion Erik and I had about it - I pointed out the fact that no-one in (RW) history EVER built a castle on the side of a hill - it makes no sense logistically; you always build your fortifications at the TOP, so you can gain the high-ground advantage. Why would someone build a castle below the highest point, where the enemy could take advantage of that factor, and rain arrows down into you keep? So we re-interpreted "at the site of..." to mean 'nearby'. Of course that doesn't really fix the problem with the new keep, but at least the original one made sense (perhaps Tyndal wasn't nearly as bright as he was good with a dagger).

I'm not gonna go nuts with this - I just have some tweaking to do on it, and then I want to put the final polish on the Nentir conversion map, and then its back to the rest of Faerûn (starting with Cormyr and Impiltur, which haven't really been covered by any of the new maps and material).

quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU

Is the map key up for sharing here by any chance?
I'll see what we can do. The key was created in such a way as to allow as much of the two different sets of canon lore to mesh (YES, we had two different map keys for the town of Daggerford IN CANON, which is one of the things Erik worked the hardest on to correct... then again, he works 'the hardest' on EVRYTHING lol). Thus, the key to that map isn't mine, nor is it canon - its a third, 'amalgam' type of thing, with TONS of thought put into it (because a LOT didn't make any sense ... like a shipyard sitting in the middle of town... with no way to actually get boats in or out...)

So maybe I can post a list with just the names of the places, and you guys can buy... maybe... Erik's product someday... if he has the time or wherewithal to update it to 5e (as I am doing here).
KanzenAU Posted - 07 Apr 2017 : 09:03:37
Is the map key up for sharing here by any chance?
George Krashos Posted - 07 Apr 2017 : 07:56:01
Lovely Mark, really lovely. And the bonus is I have the references to the map key!

I have to get you to revisit that Impiltur map one day if ytou have the time and inclination.

-- George Krashos
Markustay Posted - 07 Apr 2017 : 02:55:15
I buy Mike Schley's maps myself - they're gorgeous. You hang those on the wall. Mine you print-out and use & abuse, and when they're all worn out, you just print out another. They're not meant to be cherished or respected - they're meant to augment someone's RPG/FR experience. When someone tells me they "used the heck out of it" in their game, well, thats what I do this for.

And to that end, 'clean and simple' works best. Of course, that Daggerford is just my old Daggerford re-purposed, except for the walls and I think one Cistern which I already re-did (you'll note they're a bit 'cleaner' than the rest). I plan to go over the entire town again in the new resolution. I also have to do my own ship for that inset map - the perspective looks weird compared to the rest (and of course, I still need to redo the scale - That's just my 'working model' that I grab and move around to get stuff right. I also need to add the heights to the elevation lines - I should have done that before posting the WIP.
KanzenAU Posted - 07 Apr 2017 : 00:36:00
It may be a WIP, but I think it's an awesome piece of work. Really impressive stuff, I love how clean it looks. New inspiration for my own maps for sure!
Markustay Posted - 06 Apr 2017 : 21:55:44
Still far from complete, but at least you can tell whats going on here now.

Daggerford Area Map 1.0

You can read my notes on that page for a brief explanation of most things. I have to run out now, but I'll be back later if anyone has any questions.

Cheers --- Mark

EDIT:
And the docks/harbor area is completely unfinished - I only did one new dock so far. That stuff you see was taken from my (four year) old map - you can see the coastline has changed (and it now matches the newer maps Mike Schley did for the sword Coast/Daggerford Region). I plan to greatly expand the 'deep water' section, and even have a few docks across the river for the outpost.

EDITs:
And I spelled 'dredged' wrong... {sigh}
Glad its only a WIP
Markustay Posted - 02 Apr 2017 : 18:29:00
Hmmmm... thought I had checked that one - thanks!

I am just now blowing-up a tiny piece of the 5e DMG map and I notice the river widens quite a bit downstream from Daggerford (which makes perfect sense, given the marsh there). I also note several islands in the river... I may be able to use some of that. I haven't checked the scale of that map against others yet, but its own scale is 1 hex = 1 mile, so in that one section west of Daggerford the river is as wide as a mile in some places. I was thinking it should be something like this all along, considering its length and what-not (I'm likening it to the Ohio River, which I'm familiar with, which is only about a mile wide at its widest point, near Louisville).

EDIT:
And now looking at his other (5e) map of that region - the Sword Coast one - I am seeing mulitple islands along its length, including several near towns such as Julkoun and Secomber, and THAT MAP is definitely canon for 5e. One might presume that the river has changed over the past 140+ years, after the climate changes wrought by the Shades caused the river to greatly exceed its bank (canon from the RotAW series), and also because of the Spellplague (all that 'terrain swapping'), and a second Sundering (MORE terrain swapping), and the ToT probably did a little something here and there, because we had geographic upheavals with that as well.

EDIT2:
Too bad none of this was thought thoroughly through - 5e was the perfect opportunity to fix these altitude problems with Daggerford, but instead it just ignores them and rolls everything back to 1e/2e geography (where the problems started). With all those changes and catastrophes the original bridge could have been easily washed-out, giving us the perfect opportunity to 'build' a new one... where one should have been all along.

Funny thing is, the road swings way east because of the old ford, but putting a bridge across the gorge closer to the marsh should have been the way to go - with 100' cliff there, most average sized sailing ships could have passed right under (and larger ships with more advance pieced topmasts could have done so by lowering the top one or two sections - some RW ones were built with this functionality).

Lastly, we still have to remember FR is NOT the real world. Elves and dwarves have been building monumental and advanced engineering and architectural edifices for thousands of years - they would have learned to overcome many of the problems already, perhaps in ways humans never thought of. For example, I can see elves building magical 'phases bridges', or even have 'phase masts' on the ships, that are able to pass through other solid object via magic. Picture a wide, arched dwarven bridge with flip-open capstones along its width - the stones hinge upward as the mast passes through, with other 'closing' behind it, like a zipper (so the 'space' isn't there all the way through at any point, so you don't lose structural integrity and have the whole thing collapse). Those are things we weren't capable of, but non-humans may have done things like that. We also have halflings that have become something akin to Greyhawks 'bargfolk' (the Rhennee), poling up and down the rivers and living on them in large housboats, and they could make a living by creating 'temporary bridges' with their boats, or even just shuttling folk back & forth, ferry style. Gnomes might cast complex illusions of bridges, that are hard to disbelieve (I guess the guy casting it could be blindfolded and carried across... maybe). Stuff like that.

And the idea of wheeled, boat-like wagons may have been more widespread in The North, and all those fords could have had ropes to allow folk and wagons (and horses) to be pulled across, even with a swift current (such things were also done RW, at crossings during the spring thaw months).
KanzenAU Posted - 02 Apr 2017 : 08:26:42
Found it! It's from Marco Volo - Departure.
Markustay Posted - 02 Apr 2017 : 07:52:36
Nope, its definitely from something. I've got maps from all sorts of places that most people don't look, including comics, 'core' sources (they sneak FR stuff into core over every edition but 1e), ones lifted from the the three canon mags (we have to include Polyhedron here), a couple of Newsletters, some ed handed me himself, etc, etc...

I'm guessing its from a Dungeon Magazine adventure, though. The fact that its labeled 'Map 2' tells me there were several, and that doesn't sound like its likely for either of the other two mags (although you never know). Definitely not a Volo's Guide (I've extracted all of those - and pieced them together - as well). It could also be something odd, like the 2e FRA book, or original Player's Guide or some-such.

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