| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 14 Jan 2017 : 05:36:30
So, Khelben didn't pass on to Arvandor...
In the latest Dragon Talk podcast, new lore not revealed elsewhere (as far as I'm aware) was discussed. What made me go "Whaaaaaaaa?!! was that Khelben, although assumed to be dead and gone, has put his put his soul into the Blackstaff - and also made it so the soul of every subsequent wielder of the Blackstaff is sucked into it too.
Matt Sernett:
"In theory, Khelben's soul went on to some fantastic afterlife... in reality, he stuck around, still there in the Blackstaff, talking with Vajra..."
Laeral is said to be aware of this.
Khelben is also said to be the dominant force amongst the other souls in the Blackstaff, controlling what knowledge they can share with Vajra (and thus is even able to influence Vajra's interactions with Samark, her former lover & mentor).
His true form that we got a glimpse of in one novel (City of Splendors?) is also discussed, and the fact that spending a century "in a staff" has changed his psyche. And it isn't really described as a positive change...
It is said to be likely that we will "see Khelben again in some form in the future".
I re-skimmed Blackstaff's ending to see if it could line up, and there Khelben does talk to Tsarra about "Arvandor's call", and his soul's need to rest. However, it doesn't describe what actually happens. It's entirely possible something more happened afterwards Tsarra wasn't aware of (eg. Mystra making a new command of Khelben after his death, much as when she made him Chosen), or he deceived her for reasons unknown to anyone but him.
I also thought, possibly incorrectly, that in Blackstaff Tower, Vajra talks to only created sentiences of the former Blackstaffs - but perhaps in truth they are their very souls... or, the tower sentiences are separate to the Blackstaff's held souls.
His influence over Vajra also gives new significance to the "new Moonstars" of Blackstaff Tower.
Anyway! Interesting.
Podcast Link |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 23 Jan 2017 : 08:48:35
Well im not going for a developing consciousness, im thinking of one that was put there deliberately by the greatest arcanist in netherils history (revealed in elimsters FR.
That means she can have relatives if you want. Im going for a reincarnation angle personally since the nether scrolls cannot be destroyed so a human personification of it likewise cannot be destroyed. Could be they are reincarnated in a relatives body. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Jan 2017 : 04:11:58
Yeah, its kind of how I picture my whole theory of 'Overminds' working (the collective consciousness of a species, which causes the ascendance of proto-gods).
Basically, any time you have 'energy' of any sort in a constant formation (and in constant motion), that is of a similar nature (magic, human brainwaves, elven brainwaves, 'negative (shadow) energy', etc), a consciousness begins to form, but depending on the level of power, it could take many centuries to coalesce into something resembling sentience. For whatever strange reason, size/power works reversely proportionate to how quickly it forms, so a simple energy pattern (like a hologram) might only take a few years to form its own consciousness (and we actually have one of those - a sentient illusion - in canon). Something the size of a star, or the magical weave of Toril, could take millennia.
its kind of funny, because I insinuated (above) that Mystra 1.0 was sort of 'special' (trying to tip-toe around being PC here), and its actually canon that the new incarnation of Mystryl - Mystra - did indeed land inside a 'special' girl (in Cormyr, IIRC... although it wouldn't have been Cormyr at the time). So if that was the case - that the 'lessened', damaged Weave connecting with someone like that because it was of a similar... nature... then what does that say about Midnight? 
By the time the ToT rolled around, Shar had already grabbed most of her power back and was ready to cut that final string. That means at no point in time was either Mystra 'playing with a full deck'. The new and improved Mystra 3.0 (in 5e they should have just renamed her Mystryl... 2.0) could possibly have the totality of the Weave back in her grasp - positive and negative (arcane & shadow). I'd really like it if they did more with this - possibly representing her as a two-faced goddess, or some-such (with duel natures). But they won't... they don't really want to define anything in stone in 5e, and most certainly NOT the deities. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 15:14:32
Well not quite.
There are mmany sentiences hidden within the weave. The sarrukh, batrachi, and aearee had many, their collective intellects are hidden within the nether scrolls.
The elves added many more over the millennia although they merged with the weave itself rather than being confined to items.
Mystryl was the first human (or part human) sentience within the weave. She took a more direct approach than many and actually continued to communicate with people (the netherese) long after she merged with the weave. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 14:43:51
quote:
The weave was created around -30000 DR. Around -4000 DR it gained a human sentience that inspired the religion of mystryl.
SKYNET!!! |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 11:04:19
The way i see it is that the weave was created -30000 DR or thereabouts by the baetith when the nether scrolls were made.
Mystryl was a goddess of the netherese so she was created after they found magic.
There are myths and legends that say selune and shar and mystra have existed aince the dawn of time, but they are stories people make up. Stories based on other stories based on events from 30 millennia ago, but stories nonetheless.
Why created a complicated metaplot when the simplest solution is to go with the obvious.
The weave was created around -30000 DR. Around -4000 DR it gained a human sentience that inspired the religion of mystryl.
The shadow weave is an oddity that i have formed when the demiplane of shadow becomes a transitive plane and shadowy mirror image of the prime. This occurs as part of the Fall of Netheril but through chance and design rather than the actions of a deity. It is then claimed as Shars doing and is passed into myth and legend as civilisation is rebuilt.
No gods that live since the dawn of time (despite having now worshippers). No gods that change form and just appear to whoever thet want to suddenly become worshipped. No changing of the rules of deities so that they can exist independent of worshippers. |
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 11:01:01
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Talking about the Shadow Weave... it was restored in 5e? If it was, is still contradicting itself? Or we just got the regular Weave?
I know this is offtopic, but I don't have all the Sundering novels and I got curious.
Not 100%, but I'm pretty sure it has just been conveniently unmentioned. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 09:38:45
Im annoyed ive had to stop doing my netheril rewrite.
I was intending to debunk all the myths, such as mystra and the weave were created from the battle between shar and selune, tyche split in to after being infected by moander.
The way i see it these are myths peddled by preachers and storytellers from a thousand years ago that have been twisted by time and accepted as history by everyone.
Maybe i can do it in a few years. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 08:39:46
Talking about the Shadow Weave... it was restored in 5e? If it was, is still contradicting itself? Or we just got the regular Weave?
I know this is offtopic, but I don't have all the Sundering novels and I got curious. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 04:16:56
NICE 
I am WAY behind with making my maps, but I'm still plugging along (have to go up to the hospital for several hours every day now). I 'accidentally' started another weird one...
Hopefully someone will find it useful... I'm pretty sure Dazzler at least will like it (Hint: I found another place to 'park' Abeir, and its pretty awesome... if I do say so myself).
As to how that ties into the thread (just now realizing I started in mid-thought) - the only way FR will be 'brought back' (limping cloned goose that it is ) is if WE keep it alive, by constantly working on it, even if its in bits & drabs. We have to keep it interesting, by having these interesting conversations about the lore (and how to 'fix' it).
The Realms is still breathing, but just barley. We are the CPR. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 04:12:53
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The great joy of "kewl ideas". I suppose you have to understand that our perspective and discussion revolves around shared-world writing, logical consistency with the story and an acknowledgement of "what had gone before". The game writers at WotC toward the end of 3E were struggling mightily with the "what had gone before" part in terms of accounting for all the realmslore, and having to juggle that with a need to come up with more game stuff (feats, spells, character classes, et. al.) to sell books. Pulling in the entirely opposite direction was the fiction department who just wanted to write stories that sold books and were clearly of the view that "blow up the world" stories were their main option in that regard. I picture the last years of FR 3E as akin to a rodeo with the game writers struggling to stay on the bucking bronco of the fiction department and trying (failing) to gel the stories with the game that was always the tarrasque in the room. Throw in a liberal amount of internal company politics, big egos and people trying to "get ahead" and you get 4E, the time jump and an attempt to clear the decks. And that's how the goose got killed. They've cloned the goose now, but it limps.
-- George Krashos
Considering the way canon was kicked to the curb at the beginning of 3E, I think that's when the struggle started. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 02:59:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXpPweAooeE
just for you Markustay. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 01:49:49
The great joy of "kewl ideas". I suppose you have to understand that our perspective and discussion revolves around shared-world writing, logical consistency with the story and an acknowledgement of "what had gone before". The game writers at WotC toward the end of 3E were struggling mightily with the "what had gone before" part in terms of accounting for all the realmslore, and having to juggle that with a need to come up with more game stuff (feats, spells, character classes, et. al.) to sell books. Pulling in the entirely opposite direction was the fiction department who just wanted to write stories that sold books and were clearly of the view that "blow up the world" stories were their main option in that regard. I picture the last years of FR 3E as akin to a rodeo with the game writers struggling to stay on the bucking bronco of the fiction department and trying (failing) to gel the stories with the game that was always the tarrasque in the room. Throw in a liberal amount of internal company politics, big egos and people trying to "get ahead" and you get 4E, the time jump and an attempt to clear the decks. And that's how the goose got killed. They've cloned the goose now, but it limps.
-- George Krashos |
| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Jan 2017 : 18:31:51
Split for brevity...
I think it was the fans that first came up with the theory that The Shadow-Weave was just the Shadow-energy Shar wrested back from The Weave when Mystryl fell, and she had slowly been drawing her energy back out of it to build her own Weave, somehow without (or maybe with?) Mystra not knowing about it (which works really well, considering the alignment changes over time). Basically, it amounted to the opposite of what happened to Tyche - the old Mystryl was being split back-apart into her basic components - the energy of Shar, and the energy of Selūne. The whole problem with that is that they've always left Selūne out of all the 2e/3e 'god strife', when she should have been a central figure in it. (I think) Rich Baker had the idea they were two totally separate 'Weaves', which really doesn't work so well, when you consider past (EG) lore. It actually works better when you say the two are integrated, and it wasn't so much Shar separating her part, but rather, re-exerting control over it.
That gives us an interesting scenario akin to what happened when the Transporter split Kirk into two halves, and we see that neither could survive without the other. Same thing happened to The Hulk at one point, when it and Banner got separated. That means Mystra was starting to 'fade away' since the fall of Netheril, slowly losing touch with parts of herself (much like how Hal 2000 was singing 'Daisy' at the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey.) By the time we got Mystra 2.0 after the ToT, we basically had a 'lobotomized' god, who probably didn't even know she was missing half herself (which could explain how so much was getting past her). Not so much that the 'Shadow' had been removed from The Weave, but rather, she was just losing her connection to those parts of it (I picture Shar snipping strands of web, slowly over time, like a surgeon).
Unfortunately, thats all fine and good, and we can theorize whatever we like, but none of that works in the context of some of the canon, and most especially not in regards to the Return of the Archwizards, where it was introduced. It was written as some sort of superior 'uber magic' that could be layered on top of 'regular magic', which makes no sense, since the were talking about a Mythal in the novel - a Mythal that should have already had BOTH types of magic in it, since it was built with the original, undamaged Weave.
Unless... when was the Evereska Weave created? Maybe Arcane Mythals only have the one half, whereas the older, High-Magic ones have both? That might work... 
But then we still have all the weirdness where you can still cast all the shadow spells, even if you don't use the Shadow Weave, which makes no sense. They changed the lore dramatically in 3e, but they didn't bother to change how (that part of) the magic works. They never said 'only certain spells can be cast with the two different Weaves', which really throws any sort of logic for their existence right out the window. And then we have the Demon-Weave... another 'Weave' thats just redundant with the others (and creates some enigmatic '3rd energy source', in theory).
Ugh  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Jan 2017 : 18:30:32
There was a novel, originally written for Birthright, that was later shoe-horned into The Realms. Birthright has the concept of the 'Shadow-World', and in order to make the novel work, FR wound up with the 'Shadow Weave', which probably seemed like a great idea at first... until they started to realize that it butted-heads with Ed's original concept for 'The Weave' (which he didn't even call that - it was just "a magical 'web-work' of energy that surrounds and permeates Faerūn"). So initially, it was much more like Ley-lines in Ed's mind.
From conversations with Ed (and answers he has given here on these forums), he feels/felt that certain writers ran (and perhaps over-ran) with some of his ideas, while other parts got completely ignored, so that over time his 'perfectly balanced and running machine' became lop-sided and inconsistent, lore-wise. The Shadow-Weave could have been made to work, since he is brilliant enough to leave enough loose-ends to be able to work nearly anything in, but the constant changing of what the Weave (and Shadow Weave) were/are, and their relationship to each other, nullified any logical 'fix' for its existence.
If 'The Weave' = 'Life' (as Ed pictured it), then the Shadow-Weave should have = anti-Life, but it didn't. Sometimes it did, but most of the time it was just whatever the current writer wanted it to be. Plus, The Weave was supposed to be a blend of ight & darkness, so it couldn't be The Weave's opposite, but sometimes it was prtrayed that way, and sometimes it was portrayed as being just 1/2 of it, and still other times it got very hazy definitions like 'its the backside of the Weave', or, 'its the spaces between the Weave' (which sounds cool in-theory, but we never really got a mechanical description of how that works).
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2017 : 14:59:11
I don't think it had anything to do with Mystra II's alignment. She had the same Chosen and mandates Mystra I had.
I think it was purely because someone at WotC said, "Hey, shadows are kewl!"
Thus we got Shade, the unstoppable Shadovars, the Shadow Weave, and the ironic thrust into the spotlight of a deity that prefers darkness.
And other, established threats to the Realms were all shoved to the side or ignored in favor of something shadow-related.
Note that all of that stuff came out during 3E -- the only time Mystra II's alignment was ever a factor in anything was during a 2E novel, and she was roundly slapped down for it in that novel. It was never reflected in-game in any way, and never appeared anywhere other than that one novel.
And none of that changes the fact that WotC kept changing the Shadow Weave. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 21 Jan 2017 : 10:26:46
Considering that Mystryl was born from the clash of Shar and Selune, I always headcanoned the Shadow Weave as Shar simply enhancing the parts she contributed to the formation of the Weave. We didn't really see it much before Mystra II because apart from the Shadow Weave being a gift Shar bestowed to her mightiest servants (Telly and co.), the neutrality of Mystryl and Mystra 1 meant that neither sister was willing to rock the boat too much.
Enter the neutral-good, mortal-tainted Mystra, herself relying on the "wisdom" of her fool chosen while lacking practical experience (she was level 12 when she ascended), and Shar pretty much decided 'screw it, not going to wait for my snotty sister to gank me with fake!Mystra's help'. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2017 : 02:00:40
They also changed how Shadow Weave magic and regular Weave magic interacted at pretty much every opportunity they had.
I don't know if people at WotC weren't talking to each other as they made this stuff up, or if it was such a poorly thought out concept that they couldn't agree on a single version of it... But my money is on the latter. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 20 Jan 2017 : 23:00:46
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
A LOT of what was written about in 4e is inconsistent with former editions, sometimes inconsistent with itself, and has been over-written (made 'untrue') by the new edition. Thus, 4e is in a real 'state of limbo' canon-wise; I think everyone - writers included - just ignore the whole thing at this point.
Sadly, there was 3E lore that was the same way -- a lot that was inconsistent with prior editions, and some that was inconsistent with itself. The Shadow Weave, in particular, changed every time something was printed about it -- and I recall one case where Rich Baker said that the information in a sourcebook released about a month prior was incorrect.
Yeah, I loved the stuff where the shadow weave and shadow magic were being tied.... and yet the shadow weave was specific to Toril and shadow magic was linked to the plane of shadow/shadowfell. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Jan 2017 : 19:52:14
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
A LOT of what was written about in 4e is inconsistent with former editions, sometimes inconsistent with itself, and has been over-written (made 'untrue') by the new edition. Thus, 4e is in a real 'state of limbo' canon-wise; I think everyone - writers included - just ignore the whole thing at this point.
Sadly, there was 3E lore that was the same way -- a lot that was inconsistent with prior editions, and some that was inconsistent with itself. The Shadow Weave, in particular, changed every time something was printed about it -- and I recall one case where Rich Baker said that the information in a sourcebook released about a month prior was incorrect. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Jan 2017 : 19:29:34
A LOT of what was written about in 4e is inconsistent with former editions, sometimes inconsistent with itself, and has been over-written (made 'untrue') by the new edition. Thus, 4e is in a real 'state of limbo' canon-wise; I think everyone - writers included - just ignore the whole thing at this point.
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
ummmmm. I'm not sure but I think she's dead too.
Well, I guess I'm out of luck then.
I disliked the 2nd (new) movie so much I didn't bother to go see the last one, which is a first for me. I guess sooner or later, all franchises lose their charm.  |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 20 Jan 2017 : 17:41:37
Wasn't this confirmed since 4th edition? I recall having read a Dragon Magazine article that said all the souls of past Blackstaffs were in the staff... |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 20 Jan 2017 : 17:32:15
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yeah, but that had more of a 'it all still happened/happens' feel to it, where as the final episode of Enterprise made you think that show may have all been a 'dramatization' of known events (which would explain the few continuity gaffs that slipped-in).
I had actually sent an idea/pitch to Rodenberry years ago, for anew show right around the time DS:9 was ending. Never heard back from the pr... guy.
I wanted the show to appeal to 'young people' (sound familiar?), so I wanted a Starfleet: Academy show with younger actors, and it would have had some from some of the other series (for example, Sulu was commandant of the Academy in the VG's, so use him in the show), like some of those kids aboard Enterprise and DS:9 (and maybe have Will Wheaton as a 'young teacher'). It could have all sorts of cool cameos. But primarily it would have been like Beverly Hills 90210 meets Star Trek, so you'd have the usual 'teen growing pain' problems on a back-drop of exploring the galaxy (special students get assigned to a 'school ship' by the end of the first season, taking us further out).
Worf's son could have been a student, so we could have had Michael Dorn cameos, etc. I think it would have been neat, and maybe got the younger folks interested in ST (my four boys never liked the show - too cerebral). Plus we could have seen more 'planetside' type stories - what the Federation is actually like, rather than just hearing about it all the time.
Ah well, now Rodenberry's dead. Maybe I could pitch it to his widow.
Ummmm... and Blackstaff stuff. I had to say something about it... (yeah, I know, I'm not even trying LOL)
But honestly, I wish they'd just leave Khelben alone - he deserves his 'peace'. Let the personality in the staff be something akin to a soul gem matrix. Of course, if they reboot to 1e/2e we could still have Khelben (and we could also have the REAL Khelben come back from Greyhawk and take his place).
ummmmm. I'm not sure but I think she's dead too. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 20 Jan 2017 : 16:26:19
Kelemvor must have just stuck a giant revolving door in front of the Crystal Spire before raiding his predecessor's booze stash. |
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 17 Jan 2017 : 12:35:29
Also found this interesting nugget amongst my bingeing on Mr. Schend's old posts... the thread in question was arguing the position back and forth whether or not Khelben should have a "fall from grace"...
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Khelben's suffered, but I'll agree that he might be setting himself up for a fall, if only because we all know what goeth before one, and he's got that in spades...
Admittedly the main thrust of the post was more "Khelben's suffered enough", but the thought was there in 2005, during the writing of Blackstaff...
I'm mostly thinking myself around in circles now. Will just have to be patient and sees what happens. |
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 17 Jan 2017 : 03:11:29
Here's Steven Schend's views on the spirit templates vs souls things, from way back in the "Blackstaff Tower - Chapter 20 - 27 & Epilogue" thread of 2008:
quote:
For all intents and purposes, they seem to be spirits/ghosts, but in actuality, they are copies of full personalities and memory templates but NOT the souls/essences.
It'd be too evil to have every former Blackstaff denied their afterlife rewards by tying their souls to the tower. Especially Khelben.
This is of course, as Steven himself was always quick to clarify, only a statement of the author's intent - and for better or worse, not canon unless explicitly stated in published material (or said by Ed). Of course, for many this trumps new canon, so I thought it would be of interest to people here.
I'm posting it in the hope that, if the new designers aren't aware of this intent, they might - just MIGHT - stumble across this quote here and incorporate it into whatever their plans are. To be honest, I hope that they're already aware of it... after all, Ed himself worked the first hints of this into Death Masks and was obviously in discussions with the design team over what was happening in Waterdeep at the time of that book (hence the cloud giant appearance etc).
I fear that discussions on these boards may have scared off any designers left working in FR, but I still hold a hope that they lurk, looking to use ideas and incorporate lore... after all, I'm not too sure there's been too many direct contradictions in the 5e lore before this one, if any. Sure, reset buttons have been pushed and that's not going to please everyone (impossible) - but I'm hoping Khelben's story will be better elucidated in published works than it was in the podcast. The character is iconic to the setting and certainly deserves the best treatment. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 17 Jan 2017 : 01:55:07
Yeah, but that had more of a 'it all still happened/happens' feel to it, where as the final episode of Enterprise made you think that show may have all been a 'dramatization' of known events (which would explain the few continuity gaffs that slipped-in).
I had actually sent an idea/pitch to Rodenberry years ago, for anew show right around the time DS:9 was ending. Never heard back from the pr... guy.
I wanted the show to appeal to 'young people' (sound familiar?), so I wanted a Starfleet: Academy show with younger actors, and it would have had some from some of the other series (for example, Sulu was commandant of the Academy in the VG's, so use him in the show), like some of those kids aboard Enterprise and DS:9 (and maybe have Will Wheaton as a 'young teacher'). It could have all sorts of cool cameos. But primarily it would have been like Beverly Hills 90210 meets Star Trek, so you'd have the usual 'teen growing pain' problems on a back-drop of exploring the galaxy (special students get assigned to a 'school ship' by the end of the first season, taking us further out).
Worf's son could have been a student, so we could have had Michael Dorn cameos, etc. I think it would have been neat, and maybe got the younger folks interested in ST (my four boys never liked the show - too cerebral). Plus we could have seen more 'planetside' type stories - what the Federation is actually like, rather than just hearing about it all the time.
Ah well, now Rodenberry's dead. Maybe I could pitch it to his widow.
Ummmm... and Blackstaff stuff. I had to say something about it... (yeah, I know, I'm not even trying LOL)
But honestly, I wish they'd just leave Khelben alone - he deserves his 'peace'. Let the personality in the staff be something akin to a soul gem matrix. Of course, if they reboot to 1e/2e we could still have Khelben (and we could also have the REAL Khelben come back from Greyhawk and take his place). |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 16 Jan 2017 : 22:10:31
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Which is probably why they will never do the reboot - too many of us disagree on where it 'should' be. I only say the OGB because its 'pristine'. It was perfect onto itself. As the years passed and more was poured on top of it, it became diluted (with both good and bad).
I just think the 1st big 'shark jump' they did was the ToT, and I would really like to start prior to that. Maybe re-do it, but in a more... sensible.. way.
On the other hand, we could have our cake and eat it to - I'd like to see some of the RW derivations swept under the rug - a new ToT could do that. Keep the OGB as-is, and then create a new FRA (and multiple novels) that describes a ToT wherein the interlopers gods are all destroyed, and certain cultures vastly changed by that. If we compare this to another popular IP reboot - Star Trek - the only TV show that remained unchained was the prequel, Enterprise, because it takes place before the original series. Thus, the OGB would be like Enterprise - a glimpse into the past few decades before everything changed.
Hmmmmm... the final episode of Enterprise had it where the entire series was just a holodek tape being watched by two crew-members from ST:tNG. So now I'm not sure - that episode could not have happened, but what about the rest? I need to join a ST forum...
Don't forget that the entire series of TNG and much of DS9 and Vger is all part of Picard's / Q's time loop that turns back upon itself at the end of that series. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 16 Jan 2017 : 22:04:29
you should go look up St: discovery....
yeah me too... thoughI, on STO... so |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 Jan 2017 : 18:09:31
Which is probably why they will never do the reboot - too many of us disagree on where it 'should' be. I only say the OGB because its 'pristine'. It was perfect onto itself. As the years passed and more was poured on top of it, it became diluted (with both good and bad).
I just think the 1st big 'shark jump' they did was the ToT, and I would really like to start prior to that. Maybe re-do it, but in a more... sensible.. way.
On the other hand, we could have our cake and eat it to - I'd like to see some of the RW derivations swept under the rug - a new ToT could do that. Keep the OGB as-is, and then create a new FRA (and multiple novels) that describes a ToT wherein the interloper-gods are all destroyed, and certain cultures vastly changed by that. If we compare this to another popular IP reboot - Star Trek - the only TV show that remained unchanged was the prequel, Enterprise, because it takes place before the original series. Thus, the OGB would be like Enterprise - a glimpse into the past few decades before everything changed.
Hmmmmm... the final episode of Enterprise had it where the entire series was just a holodek tape being watched by two crew-members from ST:tNG. So now I'm not sure - that episode could not have happened, but what about the rest? I need to join a ST forum... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Jan 2017 : 17:20:30
Of course, rebooting to the end of the 2E era -- my personal preference -- preserves a lot of the novels, and still keeps things before they went off the rails. |
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