| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 13:32:57
According to the old "The Savage Frontier" book, an avatar of Karsus is still alive and resides in a pyramid atop the butte in the Dire Wood.
Has anything been done with this? I know we had the Archwizard's Trilogy but I don't remember if that part was ever in the books.
I'm working on a massive campaign of the north and the High Forest is the central part so I want to encompass as much as I can. I was thinking about having a return of Karsus as a god who works with Mystra to stop the abuse of magic. Not fully sure yet, just throwing some ideas out there. |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kessalin |
Posted - 18 Dec 2016 : 17:09:06
It was the Tome of Magic; Pact, Shadow, and Truename Magic. Three alternate magic systems to the vancian casting of the base game. Not exactly a "big book of spells" (I'd give the Spell Compendium that label), but the Pact magic system dealt with vestiges and Binders. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 16 Dec 2016 : 02:28:34
.... yeah the big book of spells ... the caster version of the book of nine swords.
Tome of Secrets I think.
ah yes KArsus...eitherway, dont care |
| EltonRobb |
Posted - 16 Dec 2016 : 00:56:55
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
In $E & 5E you could make Karsus a Warlock Patron.
Yeah, you could, in theory. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 21:52:28
I forget the name of the 3E book that had the Binder Class in it. Karsus was a Vestige a Binder could bind and draw power from. Pretty cool class...
In $E & 5E you could make Karsus a Warlock Patron. |
| Arivia |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 21:20:13
Wasn't that avatar of Karsus dealt with in the Return of the Archwizards trilogy? Been a long time since I read those, but I remember book 1 culminating in all sorts of mage-battles at Karse. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 17:54:40
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I wonder would it be possible to have communication with Karsus. I wanted to being Karsus back as a reformed god who realized his mistake and wants to help stop the abuse of magic.
He did realize his mistake, but by then, it was too late.
Mystra isn't down with the abuse of magic, already.
I'm not knocking your idea of bringing Karsus back, I'm just saying bringing him back this way is a redundancy.
I really don't understand the appeal of Karsus, and I don't like the idea of bringing him back in any capacity. But if I was going to bring him back, I'd make him something like a Halruaan Jordaini. Make him mortal or semimortal, and give him the ability to combat spellcasting without using magic himself. Because seriously, who would ever trust him with magic a second time? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 17:05:29
Oh, and if you did develop some kind of new warlock patron type with him, the spells granted should be more of a standard "wizard" type of spell and possibly the cantrips used should mirror "wizard" effects. For instance, the most common warlock cantrip is eldritch blast... which creates multiple force beams.... I see no reason the description couldn't change to make it instead blue missiles of arcane energy to somewhat mirror magic missile. Perhaps another excellent change might be to encourage the taking of a cantrip that most warlocks never use as it requires an action... that being blade ward... perhaps your 1st or 6th level ability lets you cast blade ward as a reaction to being damaged X number of times between rests... or perhaps you gain a variation of the sorcerer's quickened spell metamagic ability which can only affect cantrips and can be use X number of times between rests. This would make both true strike and blade ward both into more viable effects. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 16:32:59
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I wonder would it be possible to have communication with Karsus. I wanted to being Karsus back as a reformed god who realized his mistake and wants to help stop the abuse of magic.
Oh, I see no problem with him coming back entirely. There should be some ability to perform a ritual to "free up" the portion of the weave that he had tied to his body (i.e. the shadow weave). I was actually planning on doing something of this sort as well, but having him come back as a demigod/lesser deity with a specific focus.
On a side note, the portion of the weave that was tied to him made enchantment, illusion and necromantic magics stronger. In theory, you could play this into somehow that this helped rejuvenate Velsharoon and Leira, since they are proponents of these specific forms of magic.
Of course, none of this has to be a known thing for the players. I'd recommend though that if you bring Karsus back, you bring him back in a way that doesn't duplicate some of the existing roles of Savras, Leira, Velsharoon, Azuth (or even more obscure "magic" deities such as Deneir, Milil,Oghma... or in my homebrew version where the red knight has a sect which studies magical spell strategy). In looking at what Karsus does, he spent a lot of time studying turning magic into a material form... heavy magic for instance... He would be a good god of either magic item creation and/or wild magic and/or metamagic (and thus sorcerers) OR a patron of warlocks with some kind of new patron type (i.e. not archfey, fiend, otherworldly, or undying... but something else).
Given his ties to blood and the idea of sorcerors having their magic come from their blood ties, it would make a lot of sense if he were a god of "blood magic", metamagic, and wild magic. If you do that, he could also be a patron of some sort for vampire spellcasters as a perverse heresy as well. If you wanted to look into the blood magic ties, I'd recommend checking out this on DM's Guild.
http://www.dmsguild.com/product/170966/Blood-Magic-5e?filters=45469_0_0_0_0_0_0_0 |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 15:43:40
I wonder would it be possible to have communication with Karsus. I wanted to being Karsus back as a reformed god who realized his mistake and wants to help stop the abuse of magic. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 15:36:04
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
Interesting. So avatars are not automatically "killed" when the actual deity itself dies?
Just to note, when Savage Frontier was written, the Karsus of Netheril who did Karsus' Folly didn't "exist" yet. The sky enclave of Karsus, Karsus casting the spell on Mystryl, etc.... was all a retcon of sorts to fill in who "Karsus" was. Basically it was in the Netheril: Empire of Magic supplement that we find out who/what Karsus was, why he's now a rock, etc... Don't necessarily read the original source material where it calls this "rock" an avatar.
In fact, if anything.... when a god dies, they create a "body" that exists as a "rock" in the astral plane. Karsus became a god while he was on the prime and never actually ascended to the outer planes. Therefore, it could be viewed that the "dead body" of Karsus that would have appeared on the astral is actually the physical embodiment that we see in the city of Karse in the Dire Wood. The one interesting part of this is that there is still a beating heart in the rock, and its this beating heart that's doing this slow trickle of blood out of the rock and polluting the dire wood's water supply and surrounding land.
It should also be noted that somewhere during 3e, there was made a reference to Karsus and his folly as being when the shadow weave was created. This was why Shar's followers were interested in retrieving the Karsestone. So, if anything, I could see Mystra seeking out Karsus to actually rejoin the magic he took away from her to heal the weave. One of the things I've been playing with along this line is noting that the shadow weave disappeared in the spellplague, and I wonder if the Karsestone didn't go to Abeir despite Shar's machinations (and possibly due to Leira's & Mask's machinations to weaken Shar). |
| Bakra |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 15:35:39
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
Interesting. So avatars are not automatically "killed" when the actual deity itself dies?
There is nothing normal about his ascension and fall. His avatar could be unique or a form of punishment. |
| moonbeast |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 14:49:08
Interesting. So avatars are not automatically "killed" when the actual deity itself dies?
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| sleyvas |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 14:04:31
Not exactly Karsus' modus operandi (the stopping the abuse of magic). On the avatar piece, I don't think they meant it like we think of an avatar. They call it a "minor physical manifestation", so I'm imagining they mean the bleeding rock is the avatar. If that's the case, the books detailing the return of the shadovar did involve it.
from page 52 of Savage frontier
An avatar (minor physical manifestation) of the dying god Karsus dwells in a temple atop the butte, his everflowing blood contributing to the magical nature of the Dire Wood, while deep within the butte, Karsus#146;'s gigantic, living heart beats ponderously. |
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