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T O P I C    R E V I E W
ElaineCunningham Posted - 05 Jul 2016 : 21:13:16
Any interest in the land of Tethyr, and in particular the new(ish) capital city?
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
ElaineCunningham Posted - 03 Nov 2016 : 14:31:09
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Thanks for the detailed reply! Sadly, my initial enthusiasm for the DMs Guild has waned, as it appears that fiction will not be included any time soon. My interest in FR lore is considerable, but it was always based in storytelling rather than gaming. So... ::sadface::


For me FR was always about storytelling. If you are content with us here at candlekeep as audience you can write whatever lore or story you want and we would be happy for it.



Thank you, Wrigley. Much appreciated. :)

I haven't been writing much over the past several years, for various reasons too numerous (and let's face it, boring...) to get into. But I'm starting a reboot. Here's what's going on at present:

This week, I'll be finishing up a short story for a themed anthology. Today, I sent in the NDA needed to get the bible for a new shared-world project, a novella-length story. Yesterday, I heard from the editor of another shared-world project about an upcoming anthology. During the month of November, I'll be finishing up a short non-fiction ebook, writing three new short stories, and writing the detailed plot outline for that 50K-word novella. In addition to working (more than) full time on a web business start-up.

So as you can well imagine, there isn't a lot of time left over for just-for-fun writing. As much as I love the Realms, I don't foresee being able to write new fanfic any time soon--not even for Candlekeep readers.
ElaineCunningham Posted - 03 Nov 2016 : 14:21:34
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Well here is what i intend to do (although time and skill may diminiah this intention).

Id focus on building a community (like here) but with the content linked as well.

So id start with a website with the campaign guide and rules system available for free (the campaign guide only contains information about how to roleplay in the realms, no regional info).

The rest is membership only (costing $1 a month)

Then each region gets its own sourcebook. the sourcebook is all encompassing and contains every bit of info you might need to play in that region. it can be built up gradually and is open to submissions of ideas from members, giving lots of versions of the sourcebook (the latest available as webpages or pdf, the others available as pdf).

Each sourcebook includes a number of premade adventures that are meant for 1st, 5th and 10th level.


Then there are the timeline dependant events that can be used to update a region. This is made as a sourcebook/adventure booklet (like Storm Kings Thunder) allowing dms and players to take part in the events. So for instance in cormyr it would be the devil dragon war, in unther it would be the invasion by mulhorand.

So that way everything is interactive and because members can contribute they will feel invested (plus its free for members). you dont need to scour sourcebooks for info either, everything you might ever want to know about a region will be included in that region sourcebook and updated to include all future changes.

Then i would work on resources for DMs. so generic floorplans for buildings. Premade encounters that are realms specific and mini adventures in themselves. Premade characters.

And all of this backed up by a forum open to everyone to help build the community (wotc really dropped the ball by axing the forum).



If i owned the IP the novels would be just one possible outcome for an adventure plot. everything has to be playable otherwise whats the point.


But all this is just my pipe dream and unless my life gets easier (maybe in 3 years when my kids are older) i wont even be able to start working on it.



Interesting plan. The problem, however, is that you can't make WotC material available online for free, and you can't charge for FR material EXCEPT through the DMsGuild site. Charging membership fees a website that offers FR material--even new, fan-written material--would be problematic.

For good or ill, the DMs Guild is the only (legal) game in town.
ElaineCunningham Posted - 03 Nov 2016 : 14:03:25
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

While we like to think that FR fans are legion, my experience with the DMs Guild shows that it isn't the case at all.

-- George Krashos



I think there are quite a few FR fans, but not all of them are aware of the DM Guild. Of those who are, I would say quite a large percentage are people who game but don't read the fiction. Judging from what I read on Candlekeep, a lot of fiction readers are averse to ebooks, and so would not be likely to go for digital originals. So what we're dealing with is a subset of a subset of a subset of people who enjoy a particular setting in a sub-genre of the fantasy genre.

(...) Yeah. Something along those lines, anyway.
Wrigley Posted - 02 Nov 2016 : 12:45:27
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Thanks for the detailed reply! Sadly, my initial enthusiasm for the DMs Guild has waned, as it appears that fiction will not be included any time soon. My interest in FR lore is considerable, but it was always based in storytelling rather than gaming. So... ::sadface::


For me FR was always about storytelling. If you are content with us here at candlekeep as audience you can write whatever lore or story you want and we would be happy for it.
Gary Dallison Posted - 02 Nov 2016 : 07:20:20
probably very true, but ive never had any money so it is worthless to me. im just dreaming of my dream job and how it could sustain my living.

i really just want more free time to work on realms stuff. anything else is a bonus.
George Krashos Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 22:46:18
You guys could make a small fortune. Of course, you'd have to start with a large fortune.

-- George Krashos
Gary Dallison Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 21:14:12
Sounds like a good idea.

Youve got to have rules to play the game though. Maybe that could be the main part of member involvement, making the content in whatever rules they wanted.

Dreaming is fun. Now all i need is time, lots of volunteers, expertise in social media, the internet, graphics, editing, a server, a lottery win to fund it all, and a wish spell to make it all happen.
Markustay Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 20:37:07
Perhaps a hybrid of our ideas? The way some sites do it now...

Ads to cover the cost of running the site. What that does is generate a MUCH larger 'fanbase' than otherwise possible (people don't like to spend money on the internet - we've become 'spoiled', and think everything should be 'FREE'). Its weird how people won't spend a dollar, but will waste an hour of their time clicking through ads just to read something. Time is the most precious thing we own, and yet, we squander it.

And then have a premium, 'pay for play' version of the site, without the ads (and maybe a few 'added perks' to make some people go that way who otherwise wouldn't).

I still think that (re)building the setting itself should be edition/rules neutral, to maximize the potential demographic. As Ed figured out long ago (and had to inform TSR, who seemed to be oblivious to the phenomena) - some people are 'collectors'. They just want to know about stuff (like The Forgotten Realms), but don't necessarily play the game. That's where the novels/stories and setting-only material comes in. I think WotC/Hasbro is missing a grand opportunity with their limited vision here.

Imagine building a world so detailed and involved that it feels 'real', to the point where fans could actually look at weekly newspapers (Broadsheets) from regions within the setting! Pull people in in the same manner that TV shows like The walking Dead and Game of Thrones do. Make it so that when people are sitting on a bus, or at lunch, or on a plane, they think, "Hey, I can catch-up on my Realms". That's what we need. We have to find a way to 'serialize' most of the content in such a way that people can catch little 'snapshots' whenever they have free time and are bored (which is how just about every App works). Imagine 'Current Clack' as an App!

It could WORK, but it will be very hard at first, and require many people to work for free (at first), but it COULD work.

The first thing you need to do is convince college kids its 'the next big thing', and that's actually fairly easy to do. That's how you generate a future in this industry. That will cause a 'social cascade' event, in both age-category directions (just like FB did).
Gary Dallison Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 08:58:31
Well here is what i intend to do (although time and skill may diminiah this intention).

Id focus on building a community (like here) but with the content linked as well.

So id start with a website with the campaign guide and rules system available for free (the campaign guide only contains information about how to roleplay in the realms, no regional info).

The rest is membership only (costing $1 a month)

Then each region gets its own sourcebook. the sourcebook is all encompassing and contains every bit of info you might need to play in that region. it can be built up gradually and is open to submissions of ideas from members, giving lots of versions of the sourcebook (the latest available as webpages or pdf, the others available as pdf).

Each sourcebook includes a number of premade adventures that are meant for 1st, 5th and 10th level.


Then there are the timeline dependant events that can be used to update a region. This is made as a sourcebook/adventure booklet (like Storm Kings Thunder) allowing dms and players to take part in the events. So for instance in cormyr it would be the devil dragon war, in unther it would be the invasion by mulhorand.

So that way everything is interactive and because members can contribute they will feel invested (plus its free for members). you dont need to scour sourcebooks for info either, everything you might ever want to know about a region will be included in that region sourcebook and updated to include all future changes.

Then i would work on resources for DMs. so generic floorplans for buildings. Premade encounters that are realms specific and mini adventures in themselves. Premade characters.

And all of this backed up by a forum open to everyone to help build the community (wotc really dropped the ball by axing the forum).



If i owned the IP the novels would be just one possible outcome for an adventure plot. everything has to be playable otherwise whats the point.


But all this is just my pipe dream and unless my life gets easier (maybe in 3 years when my kids are older) i wont even be able to start working on it.
Markustay Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 07:22:08
'The Squeaky wheel', and all of that.

If there is not 'more of us', then we need to MAKE 'more of us'. If we fail to let the next generation know what they could do with their imaginations - not just gaming, but reading stories as well, then these wonderful things that 'civilization' has given us will fall by the wayside, replaced by medicore, cookie-cutter video game plots.

Right now, fantasy, scify, and gaming are in new golden era; we just need to find an exciting new method of tapping into all that. The audience is there - we just have to make ourselves heard. We have to give them a world they can get lost in, just like Ed gave us.

"If you build it, they will come."
George Krashos Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 06:50:51
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Well, then, perhaps its up to US to make sure people know its there.


I think you might be over-estimating the amount of US too. Not trying to gloom and doom but saying it as I see it.

-- George Krashos
Irennan Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 05:47:43
I think that you can upload nearly pure-lore material (not fiction, tho, apparently). I've seen some good stuff like that on the DMGuild.
Markustay Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 05:40:37
Well, then, perhaps its up to US to make sure people know its there. Its a catch-22 situation: Without great content, no-one really knows about it, but without anyone knowing about it, it will probably never grow into something huge (because the few contributors WILL 'give up' on it). The 'word of mouth' business model is a rough one, although you would think in the age of the internet, that wouldn't be so.

Its only for 5e, huh? Thats a shame. If they would allow 'edition neutral', and even 'system neutral', I think it could be amazing. Even pure fiction, which I think is what Elaine was aiming for.

{Sigh} Everyone is so concerned with holding onto 'their piece of the pie', that they don't realize no-one is generating any new pie... and no new fans of pie. They're slowly strangling their own revenue streams to death.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 02:39:06
I think the DM's Guild just isn't well-known enough to the fan community, either. It's a great idea, but unless WotC really starts advertising it, people aren't going to know it's there.
Markustay Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 01:12:59
I think FR still has a decent fanbase, I just think most of them don't like to spend money.

I don't even think the crowdfunding way of making RPG products is very viable anymore - too many 'slip ups' the past couple of years. It might still be a good way to produce a good tabletop game, however.

As for authors, I know of only one who is making a living with crowdfunding (and thats probably because he is an excellent artist, as well as good writer and decent storyteller).

I had thought the DMs guild was a viable option for making some money, but I guess not.

I've been thinking about this a LOT lately, the past few years. There HAS TO be a way of using the way the internet works to make money with writing, but it would have to be some sort of model that hasn't quite been hit-upon yet. After all, those gawd-awful 'click-bait' sites make money with their ad revenue, and they force people to click through a couple dozen pages just to read what amounts to be one paragraph of information. So if people can make money by doing next to no writing and putting it together with something semi-interesting ("You won't believe what happened next!") pics, then I would think an actual AUTHOR should be able to make a comfortable living. I think we have to stop being so 'pure' with our approach, and sully ourselves with base business-models for making money (because eating is always a nice thing).

Perhaps something along the way of 'serialized' content, like how videos work on Youtube. Read a chapter, then click some ads to get to the next chapter, etc. Its an ugly concept, but something like that might work. So the story would actually be 'free', in that its being paid for by the advertisers (almost getting back to the early days of TV, with 'soaps'). The same would probably work for game-material as well.

You can't make money the 'old fashioned way' anymore. Book stores and like media are things of the past; people have the attention span of gnats now. And everyone thinks everything should be 'FREE', because its the internet. So we have to play their game - charge them their 'time' instead. Time IS money, after all, and if someone would rather click on 4-5 ads every 10 minutes, rather then spending $8 on a paperback, then thats what we might have to do.
George Krashos Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 22:46:05
While we like to think that FR fans are legion, my experience with the DMs Guild shows that it isn't the case at all.

-- George Krashos
Fellfire Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 22:42:43
How about a steak dinner with a nice Cabernet?
Gary Dallison Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 14:25:38
i think wooly is tryinh to say that he'd happily help for free.

if so he is not the only one i think.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 14:22:40
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire

That is a wonderful idea, Markus.



It IS a great idea. I would love to try something like this.

However.

I'm guessing that items on the DMs Guild are selling, at best, a few dozen copies. WotC takes half, and the two creators would split the other half. We're talking many, many hours of work for very little return. Pizza and a six-pack, if you're lucky. DMs Guild is great for people who want to share their love of the hobby. For people who are actually attempting to make a living from their writing, not so much.





I'd be willing to pay the price for a pizza and a six-pack, for such material. And depending on the lore, that six-pack might be my favorite Irish cider.
ElaineCunningham Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 13:08:40
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire

That is a wonderful idea, Markus.



It IS a great idea. I would love to try something like this.

However.

I'm guessing that items on the DMs Guild are selling, at best, a few dozen copies. WotC takes half, and the two creators would split the other half. We're talking many, many hours of work for very little return. Pizza and a six-pack, if you're lucky. DMs Guild is great for people who want to share their love of the hobby. For people who are actually attempting to make a living from their writing, not so much.

Fellfire Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 03:48:30
That is a wonderful idea, Markus.
Markustay Posted - 29 Oct 2016 : 23:42:07
I'm actually playing around with another program right now, that I've used RW - an architectural one - that may be well-suited for adventure design with some tweaks (You can 'walk through' any floorplan you make in 3D!)

I'm sorry to hear about you not being able to do something for the DM's Guild - I am being drawn in that direction myself at the moment. Have you considered partnering with someone like Eric Boyd or Steven Schend, and have them do the 'game aspect' of whatever you write?

In other words, it would be something along the lines of what Paizo did with their AP's - a little story and then an accompanying, related adventure (and by 'related', it could just mean the same geographic location). You write the 'lore' end of things, and they do the 'crunchy bits'. That might be a win-win, and if you couple with another big name in gaming (like those two I mentioned above), it could generate more sales through cross-pollination.

It would be a real shame to lose-out on your wonderful talents, Elaine, just because the DM's guild focus is mostly adventure-driven.
Sunderstone Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 14:38:26
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I used to use Illustrator Vector Graphics for my map icons, but after I lost all those files, I haven't bothered to rebuild my symbol library again.

If you just crank the PPI up to 300 you wouldn't have to worry about vectors - you'd just be building the whole map at the tiniest scale, which is a lot of work, but I think its worth it. I use GIMP these days - it doesn't have all the automated processes PS does, but because of that, you have to do everything manually, which makes you a better artist in the long run (for example, to get your text to 'glow', or even to curve, its a 4-5 step process, rather than a single click). Because of all that extra work, I had to learn how to use a lot of tools I would have otherwise ignored (when I used PS, I probably didn't use 90-95% of the features). Between that, and learning how to use layers properly, there is nothing you can't accomplish with GIMP (or Potoshop) that you can do with Vectors.

I do miss the 'polar projection' feature in PS, but I could probably just get a plugin for GIMP for that. Its really the only way to get the north and south poles accurate on a world map. Of course, since you are doing a city, none of that matters.



P.S. - I've also been tinkering with Campaign Cartographer lately. I might use it make a friend a map, or one for myself to run an adventure, but I just don't think its powerful enough to make professional looking maps. Once you get used to all the amazing things you can do with GIMP, PS, Illustrator, etc., it's like taking a giant step backwards using CC.

Oh, and most of us 'fantasy cartographers' use several programs to get the look we want - I'm actually doing the geography portions of a map in GIMP right now, and then I will load that into CC for all their great looking map symbols (it looks more 'fantasyish' with little buildings, etc., than icons). Afterward, I will load it back into GIMP (or Inkscape) for the text. It really all depends on how crazy you want to get, and what sort of 'feel' you want the map to have.



Thanks for the detailed reply! Sadly, my initial enthusiasm for the DMs Guild has waned, as it appears that fiction will not be included any time soon. My interest in FR lore is considerable, but it was always based in storytelling rather than gaming. So... ::sadface::



Sorry to hear that, the FR is certainly richer as a living breathing world because of your storytelling! I'm not sure anyone brought the city of Waterdeep to life for me the way your stories did! It made gaming there as familiar as a trip to the big city next to door to where I live!
ElaineCunningham Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 14:24:13
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I used to use Illustrator Vector Graphics for my map icons, but after I lost all those files, I haven't bothered to rebuild my symbol library again.

If you just crank the PPI up to 300 you wouldn't have to worry about vectors - you'd just be building the whole map at the tiniest scale, which is a lot of work, but I think its worth it. I use GIMP these days - it doesn't have all the automated processes PS does, but because of that, you have to do everything manually, which makes you a better artist in the long run (for example, to get your text to 'glow', or even to curve, its a 4-5 step process, rather than a single click). Because of all that extra work, I had to learn how to use a lot of tools I would have otherwise ignored (when I used PS, I probably didn't use 90-95% of the features). Between that, and learning how to use layers properly, there is nothing you can't accomplish with GIMP (or Potoshop) that you can do with Vectors.

I do miss the 'polar projection' feature in PS, but I could probably just get a plugin for GIMP for that. Its really the only way to get the north and south poles accurate on a world map. Of course, since you are doing a city, none of that matters.



P.S. - I've also been tinkering with Campaign Cartographer lately. I might use it make a friend a map, or one for myself to run an adventure, but I just don't think its powerful enough to make professional looking maps. Once you get used to all the amazing things you can do with GIMP, PS, Illustrator, etc., it's like taking a giant step backwards using CC.

Oh, and most of us 'fantasy cartographers' use several programs to get the look we want - I'm actually doing the geography portions of a map in GIMP right now, and then I will load that into CC for all their great looking map symbols (it looks more 'fantasyish' with little buildings, etc., than icons). Afterward, I will load it back into GIMP (or Inkscape) for the text. It really all depends on how crazy you want to get, and what sort of 'feel' you want the map to have.



Thanks for the detailed reply! Sadly, my initial enthusiasm for the DMs Guild has waned, as it appears that fiction will not be included any time soon. My interest in FR lore is considerable, but it was always based in storytelling rather than gaming. So... ::sadface::
Markustay Posted - 13 Oct 2016 : 08:07:08
I used to use Illustrator Vector Graphics for my map icons, but after I lost all those files, I haven't bothered to rebuild my symbol library again.

If you just crank the PPI up to 300 you wouldn't have to worry about vectors - you'd just be building the whole map at the tiniest scale, which is a lot of work, but I think its worth it. I use GIMP these days - it doesn't have all the automated processes PS does, but because of that, you have to do everything manually, which makes you a better artist in the long run (for example, to get your text to 'glow', or even to curve, its a 4-5 step process, rather than a single click). Because of all that extra work, I had to learn how to use a lot of tools I would have otherwise ignored (when I used PS, I probably didn't use 90-95% of the features). Between that, and learning how to use layers properly, there is nothing you can't accomplish with GIMP (or Potoshop) that you can do with Vectors.

I do miss the 'polar projection' feature in PS, but I could probably just get a plugin for GIMP for that. Its really the only way to get the north and south poles accurate on a world map. Of course, since you are doing a city, none of that matters.



P.S. - I've also been tinkering with Campaign Cartographer lately. I might use it make a friend a map, or one for myself to run an adventure, but I just don't think its powerful enough to make professional looking maps. Once you get used to all the amazing things you can do with GIMP, PS, Illustrator, etc., it's like taking a giant step backwards using CC.

Oh, and most of us 'fantasy cartographers' use several programs to get the look we want - I'm actually doing the geography portions of a map in GIMP right now, and then I will load that into CC for all their great looking map symbols (it looks more 'fantasyish' with little buildings, etc., than icons). Afterward, I will load it back into GIMP (or Inkscape) for the text. It really all depends on how crazy you want to get, and what sort of 'feel' you want the map to have.
Adhriva Posted - 08 Jul 2016 : 02:52:28
You can use the selection, stroke, and shape tools to great effect of creating very clean lines so you're not switching programs all day long.
ElaineCunningham Posted - 08 Jul 2016 : 02:37:28
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Do you have a better suggestion? Also open to new ideas!

I think looking for suggestions on maps not for immediate use in RPGT is likely to be most fruitful at Cartographers' Guild rather than DM's Guild.
But yeah, vector graphics is an unusual choice for maps, though not exotic.
The part of it may be that vector image rendering tend to get noticeably slower with more details, and when zooming out, objects are going to clutter rather than being scaled down into dots. But at least on "general shape and main land features" type of maps it should not really matter... as long as the cartographer doesn't run on rampage with "here there be dragons" to fill the blank space.



I can see the value of using PhotoShop or Painter for most maps. Why I'l leaning toward Illustrator is the ability to create clean geometric shapes to represent buildings. I would love to have a detailed map of Darromar, one similar to the 2nd edition Waterdeep map that zoomed down to a street-and-building level of detail. I'll probably end up combining programs, but using a vector program for buildings and roads makes sense to me. Of course, I may feel differently once I start in on it...

TBeholder Posted - 07 Jul 2016 : 22:35:09
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Do you have a better suggestion? Also open to new ideas!

I think looking for suggestions on maps not for immediate use in RPGT is likely to be most fruitful at Cartographers' Guild rather than DM's Guild.
But yeah, vector graphics is an unusual choice for maps, though not exotic.
The part of it may be that vector image rendering tend to get noticeably slower with more details, and when zooming out, objects are going to clutter rather than being scaled down into dots. But at least on "general shape and main land features" type of maps it should not really matter... as long as the cartographer doesn't run on rampage with "here there be dragons" to fill the blank space.
The Masked Mage Posted - 07 Jul 2016 : 20:11:49
As for overloading your system, if you have a good computer that should not be a problem. Just shut down (make invisible layers you don't need to see all the time). I'm pretty terrible at visual arts, but use vector-based CAD to do d&d mapping and have never had a problem, even with thousands of objects and dozens of layers. Build your own objects though - premade objects tend to be heavy on rendering.
Adhriva Posted - 07 Jul 2016 : 16:06:33
I think youre on the right track to play towards what you know best. It won't be easy, but no worthwhile challenges ever are.

If you're going to use illustrator, keep the image layers few. For example from my working habit: A background layer for basic land shapes and gradient meshes (I recommend doing this last as gradients will eat up your computer's resources), one for terrain markings(coastlines, ridges - you're going to bed playing with going from one pt of line thickness to another alot so be sure to keep it organized within the layer), a layer for styled iconography (trees, cities, towns, hills and any other premade icons), and one for text, roads, and national boundries. Avoid using images, as they aren't vector-based - just trace over any you need. Stay away from making fancy keys, compasses, old paper background, or map decor until the end (your computer will thank you for it).

Most traditional fantasy cartography is done in via raster images (photoshop, painter, etc.) as they are often printed for smaller mediums (e.g. not billboards or something that must be repeatably scaled over many mediums), have more control over subtle variations (such as gradual shifts in color), and are easier on a computer when things get extremely complex (a difference of having to render a set pixel vs an algorithm). Most fantasy cartography, but not all, even tries to capitalize on the lack of that perfectly rendered feel for that hand drawn and painted feel. I think it would be easier for what you want to accomplish from a purely tool assessment standpoint, but it would be more of a learning curve. As such, my suggestion is to do what you're doing now: start with what you know. Find your feet before you learn how to swim so to speak. Of course, given you have atleast a year of creating graphics under your belt and have had a long interest in the subject material, you might already be more prepared to tackle a new toolset then you realize.

If you want a guiding hand or feedback as you figure this out, feel free to send an email my way. Best advice I can offer is to make many, many mistakes; so little is learned when we get it right the first time compared to when we have to examine, assess, and try again. If you set aside enough time to hit the bumps in the road and to recover from them, you'll do just fine.

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