| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 12 Jun 2016 : 21:49:07
Well I have tried my hand on the DM's Guild and released Netheril: The First Age.
I will be updating it periodically so if you fancy a read and then have any suggestions then by all means speak up
Here's the link
http://www.dmsguild.com/product/185371/Netheril-The-First-Age
It is of course free but any money raised will go towards purchasing improvements |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 26 Jul 2016 : 21:41:37
Updated to version 1.2 to fix a lot of spelling and grammar mistakes (my English sucks like all true Englishmen)
Added new organisations new NPCs new locations and made a start on documenting the sources used to build this work. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 11 Jul 2016 : 11:59:33
Working on the Abbey Mountains amd who destroyed the Abbey of the Moon, also why it was created in the first place. Since it is destroyed in the nether age i figure it needed a bit more page time than i gave it in the first age.
Also working on developing Alandril Nether's story and actions and hopefully fleshing out a few more items etc.
Lastly im almost done with detailing the alliance council and i might go into the swords of the lady as well. Ive done a bit more detail on the Rengarth and added the leader of the vandaldt tribe but i really want to leave the Rengarth for the Nether Age as that age features them quite prominently and i want to really get stuck into their legends, their tribes, their ancestor worship, etc. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 26 Jun 2016 : 18:35:18
Well i reached a hundred downloads today in about a month, not sure if thats good or bad. Anyone got any thoughts or suggestions on improvements.
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 22 Jun 2016 : 23:09:58
Its in the netheril sourcebook, the hollow is a place on the map in the southwest corner of netheril. Its probably a bit closer to the farsea marsh (in fact it could be one and the same) but it gives an idea that the source of the demi plane theory could be from human, dwarven, creator race, or even further back. |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 22 Jun 2016 : 23:04:19
Is excavation of Tunland mentioned somewhere in books? |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 22 Jun 2016 : 21:46:04
Shadow magic is just another type of magic to me, im not linking it to shar because i dont deal with the gods or meta story, i only deal with the people and places.
That being said Telemont Tanthul's discoveries of the demi plane of shadow build upon his father's work which involved excavation of the Hollow (the region now known as the tunlands). Those ruins may provide clues as to the historical usage of shadow magic. During netherils time lord shadow likely invented a few shadow type spells that mimicked other spells but they were most likely normal weave spells.
As for the shadow Weave, that again involves meta story so i will provide no explicit explanation, but i can say it exists as far back as you want shar to have existed, it was very limited during netherils time, and its story and expansion is linked to how the demi plane of shadow became the plane of shadow. |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 22 Jun 2016 : 21:29:49
My hopes are that you will make full view of Netheril through Ages but it should be noted that to connect the dots you need to write some creative musing so it will not be a clean reference point for canon lore. I think it is actualy better because simple reference book would be unusable for many and as you seem to uphold Ed's rule of three it should be fine.
Do you have a clear idea about usage of Shadow Magic in netheril. It is mentioned somewhere that Lord Shadow invented it but I believe that Shar have longer fingers than that. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 22 Jun 2016 : 11:49:03
The netheril lore has been fragmented over 5 editions and 40 sourcebooks, it requires a certain level of obsession to collate and interpret everything.
Hopefully i can produce something thay will be useful to the community that provides a single point of reference and irons out all the inconsistencies and misconceptions that lead to multiple differing accounts of netheril.
Unfortunately the stuff you seem most interested in is about 6 ages and 3000 years away so it may be some time until you get any answers (and i still want to finish my rpg system in the meantime).
But keep the questions and theories coming, i cant claim to have found all the lore so if there is something you find of interest or of confusion about netheril then say so in case i havent found that bit yet. |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 22 Jun 2016 : 01:59:02
Nice detailed explanation. It is obvious you have done much better research than me. I am trying to simplify it somewhat so it is easier to remember. You have solved SW migration by saying they mixed with Jhaam people. For me they made stock of Talfiric subrace and their shadow magic king makes a little more sense this way (your version is more detailed and comes to the same conclusion - netheries influence in area). For NE migration I have only problem with oficial informations regarding Northkeep as it is obvious that there were much older settlements in Moonsea area. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 21 Jun 2016 : 20:45:59
I can see we have a more than a few differing opinions likely caused by the Netheril sourcebook itself and those errors were then compounded by the sacred cow of canon.
When it comes to the survivor states you have to remember that an exodus from the Netheril basin began as far back as -550 DR when the desert first began to appear. Because the desert appeared first in the west (in the Rengarth Ancestral Lands) the Low Netherese fled first heading NW, W, and SW.
Now the Netheril Basin was enclosed on all sides. The only escape points were west or east into the massive elf controlled forests of Cormanthor and the High Forest. Many of those elves were none to happy with the humans of Netheril and the Low Netherese had no way of knowing the elves would take pity on them. Other escape points were NW into Delzoun and SW through the Tunlands into the Heartlands. The place known as Shadow Gap leading SE did not exist at this time it was still hill and mountain.
So the Low Netherese began fleeing through those points from -550 DR onwards as the desert spread. As it got bigger more people fled.
Those fleeing NW formed the base of the Netherese settlement of the North (which was swept away after the fall of Ascalhorn and paved the way for the Illuskan settlement of the North). Those fleeing SW mingled with the Jhaam and helped form the basis of the Chondathan people that settled the Vilhon Reach and the Dragon Coast and then spread into Cormyr and Sembia and the Dalelands (other waves of immigration into Cormyr and Sembia and the Dalelands also occurred from Impiltur which was also settled by Jhaam and Netherese survivors).
The High Netherese (pure blooded Netherese) were concentrated on the enclaves and in the region of Seventon. The enclave dwellers were almost all killed except for a few thousand on the enclaves of Anauria, Asram, and Hlondath which crashed near Azirrhat (I think), although those High Netherese that fled before the fall founded places like Illuskan and Halrua etc.
They couldn't flee west because the desert had covered all the lands west of Conch by that point. The Hidden Vale was overrun by goblinoids. The Rystall Woods were decimated thanks to the elemental forces and Maram of the Great Spear that the Netherese themselves unleashed (thus the elves would likely be very upset). So they fled south to the Crescent Lands (the gap between the Hidden Vale and the Desertsmouth Mountains).
Here was a lush valley with plenty of water. It was far enough from the desert to not worry about it. Plus as it turned out the Anaurian hive was right beneath their feet and when the phaerimm tried to travel beneath the survivor states and cast life drain spells (how they spread the desert everywhere else) the beholders fought back and started a centuries long war (ending when Ooltul fell).
The Tunlands were nominally part of Netheril because it was the Angarth Ancestral Lands. Not exactly an orc haven (since the barbarians hated orcs) but during the Shadowed Age Netheril began to fall apart so all kinds of monsters moved back into Netheril's former territory. The desert however didn't spread into the Tunlands until after -339 as the phaerimm were driving it east towards Seventon and ignored the Angarth Lands (natural desertification spread it south over hundreds of years).
Ebenfar was centred in this area so we know there was human habitation in the region after Netheril's fall. Elminster's Ecologies and the Tunlar Barbarian legends also talk of civilisations around Farsea Lake (now Farsea Marsh).
So my proposal is that many small kingdoms arose in this area and banded together into a seven throned kingdom before being destroyed by the machinations of Gorothir (who destroyed it with a lie supposedly). This kingdom was made up of talfir, angarth, Low Netherese, and horse nomads from northern Jhaamdath.
After the breakup the Angarth become the Tunlar barbarians, the talfir are gradually moved westwards until they hit the moonshae isles, the Low Netherese join with the Chondathan people. The land then becomes home to the goblins (the goblin marches) and forms a large part of the empire of Hlundadim.
But that's all my theories. There are a ton of quotes spread throughout almost every sourcebook for 2nd and 3rd edition. I just collected them all and joined the dots as best they could.
Oh and thanks for the inspiration Wrigley. That Kurtulmak quote gave me plenty of thoughts on a number of conundrums (like the Labyrinth and the cave of whispers) and solved where those kobolds came from that slew the Angardt. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 21 Jun 2016 : 17:20:20
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
Also talking about survivor states I have found strange that no settlement is mentioned in unoccupied region SW from Netheril where Talfiric people will make their kingdoms later. I have placed Anauria there as it doesn't make much sense to settle within Anauroch basin when you run from Lifedrain effects and there are already some netheries villas and tombs in that region (so I merged Talfiric stock with netheries survivors).
That's where their "Frontier" was back then - with orcs ("orc mating grounds. Warning: springtime is worst!"), and barbarians and increasingly unamused elves. Not an area where they could run to recover.
Conversely, they earned few long-term enemies on the East.
quote:
A few archwizards, however, debated whether to subjugate the eastern nations under their rule. All plans to infiltrate the eastern
cultures were laid to rest when the western lands, controlled
loosely by barbaric tribesmen who were “sired by the consum-
mation of the Earthmother (an aspect of Jannath) and a wolf,”
were deemed an easier target. The Terraseer, a mysterious oracle,
was probably the main reason Netheril didn’t expand to the east.
- Netheril: Empire of Magic
Also, there were "survivor states" to SW.
1) West: the closest was Ascalhorn. Then the fiends wiped it out - with Wulgreth's help behind the scene.
Wulgreth probably culled some other refugees, too.
2) West: someone else moved beyond the most dangerous area, to the coast - the candlestick Host Tower was built by the Netherese. But probably not much of them.
3) More South: the only Netherese survivors who ran SW and managed to stick around longer than this were those who ran all the way to... what became Halruaa. |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 21 Jun 2016 : 17:10:37
I am not sure where but I have read that almost everybody knew he was sarrukh (at least it sounded that way) but I agree that they shouldn't. I had Iolaum toppled on another lore - he is old enough that he could have had contact with Imaskari before their fall. That is the reason he was interested in area his lair is now - he found about their hidden city and tried to find it. In my version this is why he tried to become overmind - he suspected that his intelect is not enough to crack this.
Nice touch with beholder city explanation. I just like to have some meaningful amount of netheries leave in SW direction as it is one of the easy ways that weren't officialy used somehow.
I do not see a need to justify your version, I like it as it is :-)
I look forward on your take on Arthindol's involvement and later the creation of first mythallar.
You do very nice job and I just hope to inspire you with my ideas and questions. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 21 Jun 2016 : 08:56:38
If you want i can provide all the quotes im using to justify the theories but a new thread is probably the best place.
If anyone is interested ive detailed the head of the vandaldt tribe and started work on providing a writeup for the alliance council. I also changed the name of people from thaeravel to better link it to modern peoples (its not an explicit link but is there for the observant). Just need to polish upbthe council then ill upload version 1.2 probably on saturday. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 21 Jun 2016 : 08:51:33
Nobody from netheril knew who arthindol was (supposedly, i suspect ioulaum probably knew, that man is an ultra genius, and a bonafide polymath).
Hopefully i will provide answers to many of the questions surrounding netheril (and maybe some people might even like the answers), and then if i get it right i will leave behind twice as many questions for others to answer.
As for anauria and the south west of netheril. Anauria has a lot of history linked to the geography in the south east. I've charted the spread of the desert and come up with explanations for it, suffice to say the survivor states were quite safe in the south east for many centuries thanks to the beholder hive beneath their feet.
Elminsters Ecologies mentions a seven throned kingdom in the southwest and the tunlar barbarian lore provides a few more hints. Gorothir and his girdle give insight into its downfall and i think the harper inn destroyed by gargoth was a remnant of the realm. Im still working out the history of it but at the moment its a realm made up of city states (although they are really really small cities) the angarth and horse nomads from northern jhaamdath.
The moonsea settlement is explained slightly in faiths and avatars or powers and pantheons in a single line. Ill expand on it more when i get to the diaspora age, but in short the netherese and jhaam spread in all directions and mingle in multiple places at oncr giving rise to the chondathan subrace before that nation even existed. |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 21 Jun 2016 : 04:43:57
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Hlundadim overlaps slightly with the survivor states and was believed to be ruled by a powerful netherese archwizard. Believes is a word that provides a lot of wriggle room.
Cheers for the kurtulmal quote, ive been looking for that for ages
I find it strange that nobody from Netheril knew who Hlundadim was and I have a feeling that there is more to it than it seems...
Also talking about survivor states I have found strange that no settlement is mentioned in unoccupied region SW from Netheril where Talfiric people will make their kingdoms later. I have placed Anauria there as it doesn't make much sense to settle within Anauroch basin when you run from Lifedrain effects and there are already some netheries villas and tombs in that region (so I merged Talfiric stock with netheries survivors).
Also there is time discrepancies with supposed settlement of Moonsea area form the South by Jhaamdath migrants with migration of Netheries surivors from West earlier on. Specificaly Northkeep is mentioned to be first human settlement this North...
Happy that my mention helped. I know the feeling when you have seen some piece of lore somewhere but just couldn't find it ;-) |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 20 Jun 2016 : 17:59:38
Hlundadim overlaps slightly with the survivor states and was believed to be ruled by a powerful netherese archwizard. Believes is a word that provides a lot of wriggle room.
Cheers for the kurtulmal quote, ive been looking for that for ages |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 20 Jun 2016 : 17:35:25
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I will dig out my quotes for thaeravel tomorrow.
As for the terraseer, i think you are near the mark. Arthindol was just one of many sarrukh liches or oreme. There were many and they each ruled in turn over a thousand years.
Given that they are evil i think they all worked against each other subtly so they could claim glory.
Their goal (for those that believed as arthindol did), was to create something capable of destroying the phaerimm when they returned. Arthindol and a number of others tried to do that by building powerful nations. Netheril was one, thaeravel another, and hlundadim another.
At least thats my reasoning
Thank you for this info from EE.
Oreme liches were 60 and they took turn in rulership after 4 years (LEoF p.102) and they are mentioned only as observers except Arthindol. It seems logical that he is not the only one meddling but who knows :-)
Cloudlands feel wrong to me from this description you provided. I thought it was just cloud giant's kingdom.
It is much more interesting that you mention Hlundadim as a kingdom - from what I know it is domain of one netheries wizard ruling goblin tribes in marches after Netheril's fall.
BTW I just found in GHotR that Shoal of Thirst was the roof of kobold city that was ruined by their green dragon overlord (legend about kultumak) |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 19 Jun 2016 : 20:23:05
Okay I'm not wanting to clog this thread up with bits about thaeravel and the cloudlands but here are a few quotes for you.
quote:
Most legends agree that there was once a powerful magical kingdom above the Stonelands, kept secret from those races who dwelt below it on the ground. This kingdom, which supposedly existed 1500 years ago or more, boasted a society comprised of dragons, giants, sylphs, pegasi, asperii, giant eagles, and even some winged, elflike beings whose name is no longer remembered (and who are now apparently extinct).
These races coexisted in peaceful harmony among the clouds, avoiding the decadent human realms of the time, especially Asram. These beings came down to the surface of the Realms only to gather or trade for food and other necessities, and quickly fled back upward to their cloudy haven. The giants, ever industrious, even brought huge stones up with them. They built magnificent fortresses and cities in the sky, hidden by the clouds.
It wasn.t until the Cloudlands were discovered by the mages of Asram and Anauria that disaster struck. The sky-dwelling races had been right to avoid their earthbound neighbors. The great and powerful wizards of these nations intended to conquer the Cloudlands, for they knew that such a kingdom would be a safe haven from the encroaching desert that was soon to destroy their earthbound realms.
In the war that ensued, the Cloudlands were destroyed. The fortresses and cities so carefully crafted by giant artisans fell to the earth. You see their forlorn remains scattered over the plain now called the Stonelands, a mute relic of war.
That's from Elminster's Ecologies
quote:
Apparently, in the days when even ancient Netheril was young, a number of mages, wizened elders, and priests set out to try to reason with a blue dragon of incredible might that had been plaguing their communities. The dragon rebuffed their attempts at parley, and many men and women were slain by its retributive attack. A god (which god is unknown today; it may even be a deity who no longer exists) decided to .help. the humans, and created creatures known as behir, amalgamated from the dead remains of their fallen comrades and the old scales of the dragon.
It is true these behir, then great in number, slew the blue dragon in a desperate, pitched battle. But of course, as often happens in legends and in life, the monsters then turned on the very humans and other fair creatures they were made to save. These found the behir as great a foe as the dragon had once been.
One evil was replaced by another. The bard who originally told me this tale said that the moral was one cannot trust the help of the gods in overcoming evil, but I am not so sure of the accuracy of his interpretation. That is just the sort of man he was.
In any event, behir are undoubtedly real. Further, they are sworn enemies of dragons, although they do not aggressively hunt them. They simply do not abide drakes within their territory, and likewise never enter the realm of a dragon.
Also from Elminster's Ecologies
Other bits of info about the cloudlands are spread among these forums from Ed and THO which detail how the cloud kingdom came into the stonelands from the east (cormanthyr) fleeing humanoids. They came into conflict with dragons and the ensuing magical release destroyed the cloud castles and the flight of dragons.
I just put all the bits together and decided that the destruction of the cloudlands came way after the conflict with Asram (and they weren't destroyed by that nation just driven east and then south and then west to emerge in the stonelands (although it wasn't called that then) and that's where the magic that destroyed the cloudlands and the dragons created the stonelands geography.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 18 Jun 2016 : 22:23:14
I will dig out my quotes for thaeravel tomorrow.
As for the terraseer, i think you are near the mark. Arthindol was just one of many sarrukh liches or oreme. There were many and they each ruled in turn over a thousand years.
Given that they are evil i think they all worked against each other subtly so they could claim glory.
Their goal (for those that believed as arthindol did), was to create something capable of destroying the phaerimm when they returned. Arthindol and a number of others tried to do that by building powerful nations. Netheril was one, thaeravel another, and hlundadim another.
At least thats my reasoning |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 18 Jun 2016 : 21:44:50
I have thought about having Thaeravel be first try of teraseer with giving humans high magic. There went something wrong and that is why he did it again with Seventon.
Could you be more specific about those legends as I do not possess Elminster Ecologies (sadly). |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 17 Jun 2016 : 21:41:14
Well the mention of a great blue dragon being devoured by a behir is the loose link i used.
The cloudlands have been tied in several sources as being post The Fall. They came into conflict with the survivor states and were pushed east into cormanthyr.
Ed later spoke of the destruction of the cloudlands in a battle with dragons in the vicinity of thr stonelands.
Ive placed that event as after the fall of anauria and part of the formation of Shadow Gap.
Of course thats just my interpretation.
I chose to have thaeravel be ruled by draconic human scions of the blue dragon that overthrew their sire. They then uncovered much magic in the ruins of isstossefifil, and used the body warping magics to recreate the thunderlizards (dinosaurs) that died out everywhere else. Their experiments are released over time after thr destruction of thaeravel.
But again thats just the direction i took. There is nothing in canon to say one way or the other. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 17 Jun 2016 : 21:32:35
Cloudlands were from Elminsters Ecologies :)
The link I have to the region with Netheril is what brought the two into conflict. and caused all the stones.
Which legend did you go with?
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 17 Jun 2016 : 21:25:55
Well ive gone in a slightly different direction for thaeravel, linking a legend in elminsters ecologies to the history of the region.
I also found quite a lot of info about thr cloudlands spread over many products and from eds scroll that led me towards a link with netheril rather than thaeravel.
That being said its always good to have variety. I wonder if i can put a link between the two |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 17 Jun 2016 : 20:34:45
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
I would realy like to see more on Thaeravel as there is very little information about them.
I tied Thaeravel in with the Stonelands and the Cloudlands... Thaeravel's conflicts with Netheril blasting their castles from the sky leaving wizard weather and ruins... and a few lingering clouds.. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 17 Jun 2016 : 20:31:48
Thaeravel will be detailed in the nether age when seventon officially encounters that nation.
Im not planning on putting in loads of detail about it, just some info about how its run how the people are spread out and how the country runs.
There will be more detail on its destruction and the legacies of thaeravel will reveal more info about the nation in later books. |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 17 Jun 2016 : 20:15:09
I would realy like to see more on Thaeravel as there is very little information about them. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 16 Jun 2016 : 21:25:00
A few things im considering developing.
The Alliance Council as an organisation with a few npcs and the building detailed.
The Spears of Seventon as an organisatiom with an example soldier, a fee npcs and the headquarters detailed.
Some goblinoid bands from the hidden valr detailed.
A bandit group or two detailed.
The shadowrath monster statted (might change its name to bonewrath to obscure its origin).
Any preferences or other suggestions?
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 16 Jun 2016 : 18:27:20
Well i will take everything onboard so by all means point out the bits you dont like (and maybe the bits you did like if you are feeling generous), and make any suggestions for improvements or maybe just bits you'd like to know more about and i will do them. |
| shades of eternity |
Posted - 16 Jun 2016 : 18:24:13
If we criticised that, we'd either be hypocrites, or be in a similar boat. :p |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 14 Jun 2016 : 13:47:06
Thank you kindly, although dont feel a need to rush. I'd much rather you take the time to digest it completely before writing anything even if its something negative. Feel free to be completely honest, if you have something you'd like addressing then just say and i will consider it (unless your request is that i never write anything again to save the human race from my awful sentence structure). |
