| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Jul 2015 : 18:25:33
I was just mapping-out a section of lower Thesk (actually trying to reconcile some MAJOR problems with the Aglarond map between editions), and it got me thinking about the Tuigan war(s), and how Thesk was in 3e, and then what they did with the 'OA type' peoples in 4e. I used to really hate it. The 3e stuff wasn't so bad, just a bit annoying (what? None of those people wanted to go home after the Tuigan were defeated?) The 4e stuff was maddening - the OA groups were all over the place!
Now, I am rethinking my dislike for all of that. We could come up with any possible scenario we want for why those folks stayed (and why apparently more kept coming), but was it a good idea? It occurred to me that in Ed's Realms, the 'Unappraochable East' was the psuedo-Oriental region, or at least, the 'gateway' to it. Thay was much more Oriental-flavored then the faux Stygia we wound up with. Thus, having those folks slowly (over a century) take-over Thesk and 'parts east' makes sense, and by 5e we get all those little 'ghettoes' in various major FR cities.
From a 'FR fanboi' perspective it just all rubbed me the wrong way ("Change am bad!!!"), but now that I am looking at it, it makes having OA characters and even culture available to gamers a good thing. And it makes the 'far east' not so unapproachable - its right next door now. Thesk has become like Persia (and Kazakstan) post-Ghengis Khan; a blend of Euro (FR) and Asian (KT) peoples (something Semphar always was, but is so ancient that it has evolved into its own distinctive culture).
After all, who was really using Thesk and the Great Dale anyway? Isn't it a lot more useful and interesting to have those Oriental cultures now entrenched there? The world becomes a bit smaller (figuratively), but the Heartlands become all the more richer for it.
But what of K-T? They (WotC) seem to have abandoned it in 3e, and never really looked back. Is it worth saving, or should some major badness have happened to it during the Wailing years? I may have to work this new angle into my 'Tan Chin Rising' storyline for Shou-Lung; instead of becoming the 'enlightened despot' I imagined, perhaps his egomania got the best of him and the place has become a nightmare from which most sane folk are fleeing. I imagined him to have become like Ming the Merciless from Flash Gordon fame. Throw in the fact that he's a lich who borrows other people's bodies, and we got us a Ming/Lo Pan/The Mandarin all rolled into one! Nothing good could have come of that - its no wonder the Unapproachable east has been swarmed by refugees!
Couple this with what happened to Thay, and our fervent hope for it to get 'fixed', and its pure win: What if the Zulkirs (and others) DID manage to restore some order to the lower enscarpment? The upper escarpment could still be a small slice of hell (the Plateau of Leng), but the lower one may be open to settlement by those who have taken it back (mostly - still pockets of undead and other badness all over the place - a great place for adventurers to make a name for themselves). Thus, the OA folks fleeing Tan Chin's evil empire choose the lesser of two evils... especially considering they are unfamiliar with Thay and its past. All they would know is that Thay defeated the Tuigan (turned them aside, really), and that would seem like a good thing to them.
So, in 5e, we could easily have a Thay (along with the rest of the UE) being VERY MUCH like how Ed had imagined in HIS Realms.  |
| 6 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Jul 2015 : 18:55:18
I had an idea of turning the Dragonwall - rather, the spot where it 'blew up' - into a 'river of lava'. Everyone loves lava, right? I had an idea for a natural column of rock acting as the one bridge to join east and west... but now I am not so sure.
A think a 'landrise' might be better, but we already have one of those. If the wall exploded and all that magical energy was released (there was an imprisoned demi-power) we could do either a landrise ( huge cliff wall) or deep chasm (with the lava at the bottom). Semphar & Murghôm should be the last civilized nations before you get to the 'Forbidden Lands' to the east. I like Semphar just the way it was - a blend of the cultures from all three main settings. Murghôm though... we really don't need yet-another dragon ruled nation. Its always been the odd-man-out in the setting (even more so then other places, like Ulgarth, Sossal, and Shaareach). Its there, it has some history... and then nothing. Just a big yawn-fest. Something really needs to shake the place up.
Maybe blend the lore - have the 'dragon king' there be an Oriental dragon. A tyrant, but not a cruel tyrant. Then have a mass exodus of easterners hit the place (which should have been happening regardless of the 4e stuff). Whereas I would like to see Thay become the 'dark Magical, eastern nation', Murghôm could be more of the regular Oriental nation; one with ties to both the shou and the island (psuedo-Japanese) nations. Maybe give Murghôm some Ninja clans or something, with a bit of a Khali-death cult (Thuggee) thing going on.
I never know what to do with Murghôm - it seems like it should have been like Turkey ("the old man of Faerûn") - but we already have our Ottoman-esque country in Calimshan (I'd still love to see Calimshan shunted over into Var the Golden, but even with the spellplague and Abeir, that would be a bit of a stretch at this point). If Semphar = Persia and Mulhorand = Egypt, what else could Murghôm be? Sumeria? If we go with the Oriental dragon ruler, we could just give them a ton of dragonborn and do something original with it (heaven forbid! LOL).
Hmmmm.. we did have a unique dragon in that region - Gaumahavi. How about a Empress instead of a King? She's already enemies with Tan Thin, so I could see her allowing the eastern refugees a place to settle. 'The Purple Dragon', marchioness of Cormeer.... that would be a bit confusing. 
Dragon Ninjas... thats SOOOOO over-the-top. |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 29 Jul 2015 : 19:53:49
I will admit I have not read a bunch of stuff, but 5e have already covered the Shou immigration populations, so if you feel like you REALLY need them to be exactly Kara-tur in the mainland that most faerun gets rped in I would look into these aspects. |
| ZeshinX |
Posted - 29 Jul 2015 : 19:43:32
I would love to see some Kara-Tur love again, but I'd rather not see RSE's transplanted from Faerun to KT (no need to go wiping out the landscape as 4e did to Faerun me thinks). ;) |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 29 Jul 2015 : 18:24:50
I haven read the Un-Trilogy of Thay yet, but I think this can surely work for any DM, even ones who have read Byers work. The mercantile nature of Thay should be at the forefront in my view. So its ruling elite would worry about things like its active working force, albeit undead, monstrous humanoid or ex-shou, and would need to make their centers of commerce welcome for them all. The Tarchions able to succesfully absorb them into their economy are probably a more scary prospect then Zsass Tamm completing his pet circle project.
So that excellent 'street vendor' style culture you described above would have intelligent undead walking the streets and vending the goods aswell. Seeing seductive vampire thralls flitting from the shades cast by vendor stall's canvas roofs, searching for a new veil or scarf to wear for her brothel job later that night; while a merchant mage (who's pallor suggests he might be a lich) orders his pleasantly dressed and perfumed zombie servant to fetch your wares from deeper inside his tent. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Jul 2015 : 16:13:12
But... but... "everyone was kung-fu fighting!"
But seriously, I am talking about the 'commoners' of Thay being a lot more Oriental looking (after a century), having replaced the majority of people lost during the Dread Ring fiasco. What little is left of 'the Elite' of Thay would still be Mulan, but over the past century, the bloodlines mingled and any new, up-and-comers would be of at least mixed heritage. The 'old gaurd' may not like it, but they needed this influx of new blood to replace what they lost - even their non-human troops would have been decimated. Opening their doors to the 'poor refugees' would make them look good in the eyes of the rest of the world (they'd want to try and repair their reputation), but it would really be so they have another pool of labor to draw from and live off of.
And, of course, they could have a new sect within their ranks - the Scarlet Brotherhood! Not the original one from GH, mind you, but an FR version. We keep the organization, skills, and classes (ebil monks!), but dump the whole racist angle (although... that actually fits in perfectly to how Thayans have always felt about non-Mulan. Just broaden that to 'Non-Thayan' and it all works).
Thats just a fun little possible perk. What I am really imagining is Thay becoming what it was meant to be all along - our mysterious 'Eastern Nation'. Leave the crumbling ruins of the Shou empire to Tan Chin and his armies of golemic Battleforged (which is how we sneak warforged into the Realms as well). K-T just becomes that 'Dark Empire' people tell stories about, but it is far away and no-one really knows the truth. Thay is the 'new orient' and in-your-face.
I can picture a mixture of Shou Ghettoes and Thayan enclaves - street vendors selling 'potions' they mix right there in front of you (like Asian food vendors in RW). It would be kinda weird/cool/fantastic. Almost a fantasy Bladerunner kind of thing going on. They (Thay) wouldn't need actual enclaves - there would be some sort of secret house they hold their meetings, hidden within the ghettoes - that would make a lot more sense then 'Thaymart'. Imagine your PCs running through something like that - tight little 'streets' and alleys, chasing down an operative they know is hiding there, but who can just disappear amidst the chaos!
Keep the good, throw out the bad, and 5e could really be the ultimate setting people are looking for right now.  |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 28 Jul 2015 : 19:18:17
I can see a lot of reasons for Karaturan refugees being probable.
A Tsunami sized wave wiping out the Wa, T'u Lung and Shou Lung basins for example. Perhaps their leadership has fled when the people needed them most, causing turmoil in all ranks of the society, as they took off in the spelljamming vessels of the Ministry of Glorious Flight.
The apparent return of Tan Chins retinue could also be used to reintroduce Kara Tur material.
As for Thay being slightly more settled with Shou expatriates, I like that alot. As long as I just don't see Red Wizards kungfu fighting. |
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