| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Blain1971 |
Posted - 31 May 2015 : 16:31:52
I am currently working on Converting Curse of the Azure Bonds from 1st/2nd edition to 5th edition. Anyone know where I can find 5e stats on NPC's like the Zhentarim, Red Wizards and the like? |
| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 01 Jun 2015 : 01:07:32
Delwa was describing how they did it for monsters because there isn't a solid method of assigning CRs specifically for NPCs in 5e yet. NPC creation in 5e comes under Chapter 4 in the DMG but such are not for fighting - therefore, currently it's better to use the monster creation rules.
Remember that in editions after 3.5, NPCs that you can fight ARE essentially monsters.
I will say that the folks over at Reddit came up with this (refresh the page for a new character): http://manata.net/dd5e/npc/index_plain.php |
| Blain1971 |
Posted - 01 Jun 2015 : 01:00:06
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
How they get to the CR for a 5e monster built from scratch is in the DMG on pg 274.
The CR is calculated by averaging the Offensive CR and the Defensive CR.
Offensive CR is determined by the attack bonus and the average damage output.
Defensive CR is determined by total HP and the creature's AC.
If you check the table Monster Statistics by Challenge Rating on DMG 274, it shows you. For example, a CR 1/8 Monster typically (there may be small exceptions) has an AC 13, HP 7-35, an Attack Bonus of +3, deals 2-3 dmg per round, and has a Save DC of 13. If your offensive abilities are higher or lower than that, then it may make the final CR higher/lower.
Sigh.....I get how to make a monster. What I am trying to do is make groups of NPC's. And make them different levels from the NPC's in the back of the MM. I know how to convert/make the monsters. |
| Delwa |
Posted - 01 Jun 2015 : 00:54:59
How they get to the CR for a 5e monster built from scratch is in the DMG on pg 274.
The CR is calculated by averaging the Offensive CR and the Defensive CR.
Offensive CR is determined by the attack bonus and the average damage output.
Defensive CR is determined by total HP and the creature's AC.
If you check the table Monster Statistics by Challenge Rating on DMG 274, it shows you. For example, a CR 1/8 Monster typically (there may be small exceptions) has an AC 13, HP 7-35, an Attack Bonus of +3, deals 2-3 dmg per round, and has a Save DC of 13. If your offensive abilities are higher or lower than that, then it may make the final CR higher/lower.
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| Blain1971 |
Posted - 31 May 2015 : 23:48:54
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Ah. It doesn't. That's the biggest thing I'm having trouble wrapping my head around, coming from 3e myself. Monster/NPC creation is not the same mechanic as PC creation. You don't just slap a few levels of Rogue on a Goblin and call it a level 1 goblin with an ECL of X. You have to completely recalculate everything based on each ability.
Best I've been able to understand, using the DMG guidelines, once you add class levels to an NPC stat block, you find the most damaging attack the creature/NPC can do in a round, figure out how much the to hit bonus has increased, and recalculate the offensive CR from that (there's a table in the DMG on pg 274 to refer to for that) and then check its Defensive CR on that same table. You average the Offensive and the Defensive CR to get the new overall CR.
So, if in your original adventure/module you have a creature casting 3rd level spells, you'd either make a PC from scratch and calculate the CR as I explained above, or modify an NPC stat block and do the same.
If you find a simple equation to calculating CR based on how many levels you've dropped onto, say, a base goblin, holla.
(And I hope that answered your question... kinda... I feel like I rambled a bit.)
I think the best thing to do right now is just use the nearest NPC stat block in the MM, change a few weapons around, spells, etc. until I can figure this out and just make the NPC's the same level as the stat block. Given that Azure Bonds starts off with an almost impossible encounter, for good reason mind, but still impossible. It would be nice if Wizards would release something explaining how they arrived at a CR of 1/8 for a 5th level NPC though. lol |
| Delwa |
Posted - 31 May 2015 : 23:43:08
Ah. It doesn't. That's the biggest thing I'm having trouble wrapping my head around, coming from 3e myself. Monster/NPC creation is not the same mechanic as PC creation. You don't just slap a few levels of Rogue on a Goblin and call it a level 1 goblin with an ECL of X. You have to completely recalculate everything based on each ability.
Best I've been able to understand, using the DMG guidelines, once you add class levels to an NPC stat block, you find the most damaging attack the creature/NPC can do in a round, figure out how much the to hit bonus has increased, and recalculate the offensive CR from that (there's a table in the DMG on pg 274 to refer to for that) and then check its Defensive CR on that same table. You average the Offensive and the Defensive CR to get the new overall CR.
So, if in your original adventure/module you have a creature casting 3rd level spells, you'd either make a PC from scratch and calculate the CR as I explained above, or modify an NPC stat block and do the same.
If you find a simple equation to calculating CR based on how many levels you've dropped onto, say, a base goblin, holla.
(And I hope that answered your question... kinda... I feel like I rambled a bit.) |
| Blain1971 |
Posted - 31 May 2015 : 23:29:14
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
I'm not aware of a direct correlation. You could check out These adventures were made for the Playtest, and might require a little less tweaking to convert. I haven't purchased them yet, but I'd imagine they have some Thayan wizard stat blocks you could at least look at and see if they'd work.
There's also this that might help.
Thx for the thought. I had already downloaded the creature conversion home brew and they are pretty useful. But what is giveing me fits is converting the groups of NPC's over to 5e. The NPC's in the back of the MM assume a certain experience level but there is nothing I can find in the MM or the DMG that explains how character level figures into the finished CR. I cannot accept a 9th level thief will have the same CR as a 1st level Thief. |
| Delwa |
Posted - 31 May 2015 : 17:25:15
I'm not aware of a direct correlation. You could check out These adventures were made for the Playtest, and might require a little less tweaking to convert. I haven't purchased them yet, but I'd imagine they have some Thayan wizard stat blocks you could at least look at and see if they'd work.
There's also this that might help. |
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