| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Faediira |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 16:50:54
would eberron airships be usuable in faerun? I know there's a binding process with the elemental and such...if anyone could help me out it would be appreciated. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 19 Apr 2015 : 03:12:23
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Halruaan ships levitate due to plates on the outer hull.
Yes, but that's a very decentralized component, and being cut from giant turtle shell, they gut to be sturdy. Lifting power will be dangerously reduced only when a significant portion of them is peeled or shattered. Plain structural damage is likely to disable the vessel first.
Also, gradual loss of lift (that varies with altitude, at that) makes forced landing, not catastrophic crash. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Apr 2015 : 02:06:56
Halruaan ships levitate due to plates on the outer hull. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 19 Apr 2015 : 00:42:11
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Spelljammers don't magically lose their speed and maneuverability advantages when in combat.
To actually fight, they need to get into weapon range, fast or slow. BTW, effective ranges in atmosphere are quite modest.
Movement allows mostly control of the engagement, not direct advantage in attack or defense as such. Except for exploiting dead arcs, but see below.
Since objectives tend to be stationary, rather than cubic miles of air (or void), avoiding an enemy is possible for a very limited set of missions - mostly insertion of troops away from areas covered from air.
And then there's wind. While sailors and weapon crews are obviously capable of operating at SR 1 (17 mph), will the ship be able to use rigging and weapons at SR 3 (51 mph)? And if yes, will a ballista or even catapult used in such conditions be able to hit anything smaller than a big castle?
quote:
And yes, a really lucky hit can disable the helmsman... But you'd not need to be that lucky to do more damage to a Halruaan or Eber-whatshit skyship.
How so?
Halruaan ships may be clumsy, but the levitation device is deep inside the hull, IIRC.
Same for Mystaran (except some got the whole hull enchanted to at least float).
Eber-whatshit ships, yes, have hoop-holding beams, that (while small and sticking out), are vulnerable to non-magical weapons. But a warship can and will have multiple engines, so it will be depowered only with multiple very lucky hits (and can tell how many are left). Golden Dragon allowed to call for boarding action (and return) an elemental from one ring - presumably, the ship wasn't supposed to plummet while this function was used, so one was enough to stay afloat.
So yes, there is a good reason why 'jammers tend to reduce interaction with groundling powers to minimum, and in conflicts act as infiltrator transports, rather than lord over the ground opponents directly. Or as much as shortcut sea trade.
Even EIN with its superior numbers, and even against goblinoids used to armored vehicles (spirit warriors) that need tedious crafting and are dangerous to a replacement driver, rather than rely on bombardment. They are arrogant enough to forget this now and then, and that's when things like "a fiend with big axe" happen.
quote:
That really lucky hit might not affect the motive power for one of the latter ships -- it'll just stave in one entire side, instead.
A faster, more maneuverable ship designed with combat in mind
Let's compare within same class - yachts with yachts, warships with warships?
As long as there's no obvious reason why the same engine can't be stuck onto a different hull with a few trivial changes. And especially when we know it was already done.
quote:
is going to be better in combat than a slow, lumbering ship that's only designed for transport.
Slow, lumbering ships designed as military transport often can be refitted as slow, lumbering artillery platforms.
Halruaan ships are built for transport and bombardment, and having to deal with dragons and/or battle magic is part of the job. Precise size unknown, but not very large, considering the small crew and hold.
Golden Dragon (pre-conversion) was 200'x60' warship with upper decks and boards mostly clear to fill with weapons.
Which is quite decent size as SJ ships go.
Neither was supposed to be used in unresisiting void or sit home if there's bad weather.
Also, airships are much cheaper than SJ-helmed ships. Thus, one can afford a bigger fleet or outfit them with some more magic.
Speaking of which, logistics differ in another way: a SJ helm is very expensive, so using it on a ship below its capability is wasteful, but reasonable size limits for airships seem to be much lower.
And there goes most of actual speed & maneuverability advantage: a formation is harder to blindside than a single ship.
|
| SaMoCon |
Posted - 19 Apr 2015 : 00:12:34
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Additionally, the deity of magic doesn't die every other day. It's not really necessary to take precautions against an event that has only happened three times in all of the history of the Realms.
I dunno' 'bout that. There are still rumors of a 5e FRCS.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Apr 2015 : 00:58:02
quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
Why are Halruaans still making airships when Spelljammer craft are superior? After all, if it can stay in the sky when the deity of magic dies then surely these direct descendants of the Netherese would use such deicide-tolerant devices.
For one thing, skyships are something of a status symbol for Halruaan mages. For another thing, most of them simply aren't interested in spelljamming. Lastly, spelljamming helms are very, very expensive, assuming you can even find an arcane to buy one from.
Additionally, the deity of magic doesn't die every other day. It's not really necessary to take precautions against an event that has only happened three times in all of the history of the Realms. |
| SaMoCon |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 23:50:41
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't know how much of this was addressed for [Eberron]. I'd personally rule that it would take more than a simple dispel to break the enchantments on one.
It has been addressed and, yes, they are that vulnerable. Even elemental clerics can use their domain powers to turn and destroy the elementals powering their flight. The container for the elementals is resistant to dispels (calling it Dispel Immunity below) but that is it. The ships don't have that protection.quote:
Dispel Immunity: An item with dispel immunity cannot be suppressed through the use of Anti-Magic Field, Dispel Magic or similar effects as the source of the magic is actually within the item and not reliant on the outside environment. Likewise, items with dispel immunity are difficult to disenchant, allowing any roll involved (d20, d100, etc) to be rolled twice and the better result of the two chosen. This immunity does not apply to any effect, spell, spell-like ability, psionic power or psi-like ability the item is capable of using that targets anyone but the wearer or the item itself.
Why are Halruaans still making airships when Spelljammer craft are superior? After all, if it can stay in the sky when the deity of magic dies then surely these direct descendants of the Netherese would use such deicide-tolerant devices. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 20:41:12
quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
Are you guys still on about this when a more fundamental to all designs flaw exists? What happens to all these "robust" ships when hit with any of the magic nullification spells/devices/abilities/phenomena? "Ashes, ashes, we all fall down!" That's what. Even soarwood drops like a brick in that event or, should I say, "eventuality." In fact, the Eberron ships are even more susceptible to magical tomfoolery with their empowering elementals vulnerable to direct manipulation by compulsion charms, divine turning/destruction, and banishment. With all the resources that get poured into these hovering toys and the focus they receive by the highest intelligences in their respective worlds why is there so little to prevent the splattering of crew and breaking of vessel when the magic dies? Airplanes and helicopters have things the pilot can do to safely land when suddenly losing power while blimps just lose the ability to navigate but will otherwise bob in the air until they manually adjust ballast to safely land.
C'mon, the smartest, most diligent engineers and craftsmen are making these things and looking to outperform each other in improvements that enhance the values of the vessels. "Vests of Featherfall" are only slightly more capable of avoiding the fate of dashed upon the surface of the world than Eberron ships but still share the same fate as other Spelljammer and Halruaan craft - hit the ground and spread like strawberry jam. Is that really the best that can be done?
Page 8 of Forgotten Realms Adventures:
quote:
Spelljamming helms would not be affected by the dead magic area, provided that they are already in operation.
The first Spelljammer boxed set does note that spelljamming helms won't work in an antimagic shell, but they are considered relics (minor artifacts) against just about everything else.
So depowering a helm with magic is doable, but it's neither reliable nor easy, and you'd be better off with some other method of making it fall out of the sky.
I don't know how much of this was addressed for Eber-whatsit. I'd personally rule that it would take more than a simple dispel to break the enchantments on one.
A Halruaan skyship would be vulnerable to area of effect dispels, but single-item ones it would mostly shrug off -- those things have many, many enchanted plates holding them in the air.
And unless a ship was, like the Monarch Mordent, too close to the ground, any magic flying ship that has its magic temporarily nullified is going to be outside that area of effect very quickly, unless the area is absolutely huge. At speed and altitude, it would likely be back online within seconds, if it had been affected at all. |
| SaMoCon |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 18:32:05
Are you guys still on about this when a more fundamental to all designs flaw exists? What happens to all these "robust" ships when hit with any of the magic nullification spells/devices/abilities/phenomena? "Ashes, ashes, we all fall down!" That's what. Even soarwood drops like a brick in that event or, should I say, "eventuality." In fact, the Eberron ships are even more susceptible to magical tomfoolery with their empowering elementals vulnerable to direct manipulation by compulsion charms, divine turning/destruction, and banishment. With all the resources that get poured into these hovering toys and the focus they receive by the highest intelligences in their respective worlds why is there so little to prevent the splattering of crew and breaking of vessel when the magic dies? Airplanes and helicopters have things the pilot can do to safely land when suddenly losing power while blimps just lose the ability to navigate but will otherwise bob in the air until they manually adjust ballast to safely land.
C'mon, the smartest, most diligent engineers and craftsmen are making these things and looking to outperform each other in improvements that enhance the values of the vessels. "Vests of Featherfall" are only slightly more capable of avoiding the fate of dashed upon the surface of the world than Eberron ships but still share the same fate as other Spelljammer and Halruaan craft - hit the ground and spread like strawberry jam. Is that really the best that can be done? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 17:50:53
Spelljammers don't magically lose their speed and maneuverability advantages when in combat. Spelljammers have two movement types: tactical speed and interplanetary speed. And that's it. It doesn't matter if it's heavily laden and slowly moving into a dock on an airless world, or being used in combat in atmosphere: tactical speed is tactical speed. It moves the same, either way.
And yes, a really lucky hit can disable the helmsman... But you'd not need to be that lucky to do more damage to a Halruaan or Eber-whatshit skyship. That really lucky hit might not affect the motive power for one of the latter ships -- it'll just stave in one entire side, instead.
A faster, more maneuverable ship designed with combat in mind is going to be better in combat than a slow, lumbering ship that's only designed for transport. It's like comparing the combat capabilities of a HMMWV and a stock Volkswagen Microbus. The latter might do some things better than the former, but combat is not one of them. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 16:10:10
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The flipside, though, is that most spelljammers are faster, more maneuverable, capable of hitting a much higher altitude
In other words, better performance outside of combat. Well, yes.
quote:
and actually built with combat in mind, as opposed to Eber-whatsit's airships or the lumbering beasts that are Halruaan airships.
Eberwhatsit ships are indeed passenger haulers, not warships. And with air speed slightly above SR 1, avoiding the competition with magic trains. But compared with SJ in their class, not terrible. Golden Dragon, for example, was a converted warship - it's bigger (~ 200' keel 60' beam) and has two of those circus hoop engines.
So now we know that one hoop engine is not the limit, but don't know whether it's possible to make it faster by packing half a dozen, and what are requirements to the hull, if any, beyond pair of beams per circus hoop - or even whether converting seaships is as easy as installing enough of hoop beams, adding control device(s) for them on the bridge, and converting wheel-and-rudder mechanism to handle vanes/fins (or better adding more wheels for more fins).
Halruaan ships seems to be used mostly as platforms for wizards and troop transport, yes. This doesn't mean they cannot pack conventional siege weapons, just that normally they don't have targets that can't be engaged at spell range or via "ballast dump" bombing.
Airships built for fighting from Mystara are very different, yes.
quote:
And being attacked by a demon with a magical axe is not a common occurrence for spelljamming ships.
The common occurence is being hit with a siege weapon, and see above - any weapon that inflicts structural damage has critical hit chance of at least 1/20 per shot (more per hit). SJ shock is ostensibly 1/20 of those, but there are "next entry" rules and secondary critical hits (such as loss of 5/10 SHP drags damage over 25%), so it may be more.
So if it's in range for a light catapult or medium ballista, there's a chance to go down with any single hit.
And to hit anything, it got to enter that range - dump bombing is only worth anything against huge stationary targets in good weather.
Collision with debris inflict a critical hit automatically.
Plus unspecified cases, that apparently may include "a fiend with huge-axx woodchopper". Which isn't a common occurence because SJ ships rarely get to fight powerful summoners - Wildspace isn't summoner-friendly environment. Fighting magical vehicles in atmosphere involves much greater chances for this sort of a trouble, however. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 05:53:07
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One example does not prove a trend.
Besides, between the three ship types, a spelljammer would have had the best chance at avoiding that situation. Spelljammers are generally more robust than that, and had the helmsman not been killed by the initial attack
It doesn't prove a trend, it illustrates a problem inherent in the system. Pretty much any SHP-rated hit is a possible critical hit, and thus carries some risk of spelljammer shock. Fight on, and sooner or later that's bound to happen.
The most likely outcome in low atmosphere is "lost with all hands". Higher, there's some time to recover the helm, so it's "only" lost crew (except fully closed hulls) and perhaps some damage, but unless they fight other 'jammers or a cloud-castle, action is likely to happen fairly low.
The flipside, though, is that most spelljammers are faster, more maneuverable, capable of hitting a much higher altitude, and actually built with combat in mind, as opposed to Eber-whatsit's airships or the lumbering beasts that are Halruaan airships.
And being attacked by a demon with a magical axe is not a common occurrence for spelljamming ships. The fact that it happened once and was fatal was a fluke. Saying it wasn't is like saying that since one professional golfer got a hole in one on a par 4, then everyone else should, even if they've never even handled a golf club before.
Combat is not an infrequent occurrence for spelljammers, and the sheer volume of ships above the skies shows that they are pretty robust. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 02:57:49
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One example does not prove a trend.
Besides, between the three ship types, a spelljammer would have had the best chance at avoiding that situation. Spelljammers are generally more robust than that, and had the helmsman not been killed by the initial attack
It doesn't prove a trend, it illustrates a problem inherent in the system. Pretty much any SHP-rated hit is a possible critical hit, and thus carries some risk of spelljammer shock. Fight on, and sooner or later that's bound to happen.
The most likely outcome in low atmosphere is "lost with all hands". Higher, there's some time to recover the helm, so it's "only" lost crew (except fully closed hulls) and perhaps some damage, but unless they fight other 'jammers or a cloud-castle, action is likely to happen fairly low. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 04:44:10
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd take a Eber-whatsit skyship over a Halruaan one any day.
Of course, I'd take a spelljamming ship over either. Particularly a Triop, a Vipership, a Hammership, or an Ogre Mammoth. 
For action in atmosphere SJ is a bad idea - q.v. Monarch Mordent.
One example does not prove a trend.
Besides, between the three ship types, a spelljammer would have had the best chance at avoiding that situation. Spelljammers are generally more robust than that, and had the helmsman not been killed by the initial attack, the Monarch would have been able to escape far more readily than either of the other ship types. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 01:18:47
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd take a Eber-whatsit skyship over a Halruaan one any day.
Of course, I'd take a spelljamming ship over either. Particularly a Triop, a Vipership, a Hammership, or an Ogre Mammoth.
For action in atmosphere SJ is a bad idea - q.v. Monarch Mordent. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 22:58:48
quote:
Originally posted by Korginard
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
The Mystara boxed set detailing the Empires of Alphatia and Thyatis goes into rather exhaustive detail on how to construct flying ships.
Not only that...but some insanely powerful ships could be constructed as well. For any setting I've seen, only this boxed set showed just how powerful flying ships were.
If Alphatia is focused, the world was screwed...but it was rarely focused (and then only very briefly).
I think the unfocused part is pretty common with this type of "technology"
In Eberorn the ships were controled by a Dragonmarked Family, which pretty much exist outside any one nation's control.
Halruaa didn't have any real ambitions of conquest so thier air fleet wasn't much danger to other nations. The same applied to the illusionists who fled religious persecution there to form Nimbral.
Halruaan skyships weren't the best platforms for war, anyway. They're slow and not overly maneuverable. Certainly, they could be used in warfare... But given a choice between an Eber-whatsit skyship and a Halruaan one, and not factoring in crews, I'd take a Eber-whatsit skyship over a Halruaan one any day.
Of course, I'd take a spelljamming ship over either. Particularly a Triop, a Vipership, a Hammership, or an Ogre Mammoth. |
| Korginard |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 22:21:56
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
The Mystara boxed set detailing the Empires of Alphatia and Thyatis goes into rather exhaustive detail on how to construct flying ships.
Not only that...but some insanely powerful ships could be constructed as well. For any setting I've seen, only this boxed set showed just how powerful flying ships were.
If Alphatia is focused, the world was screwed...but it was rarely focused (and then only very briefly).
I think the unfocused part is pretty common with this type of "technology"
In Eberorn the ships were controled by a Dragonmarked Family, which pretty much exist outside any one nation's control.
Halruaa didn't have any real ambitions of conquest so thier air fleet wasn't much danger to other nations. The same applied to the illusionists who fled religious persecution there to form Nimbral. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 13 Apr 2015 : 22:10:04
The Mystara boxed set detailing the Empires of Alphatia and Thyatis goes into rather exhaustive detail on how to construct flying ships.
Not only that...but some insanely powerful ships could be constructed as well. For any setting I've seen, only this boxed set showed just how powerful flying ships were.
If Alphatia is focused, the world was screwed...but it was rarely focused (and then only very briefly). |
| Korginard |
Posted - 13 Apr 2015 : 21:56:29
I liked the idea of Airships more than the trains that Eberon had. The trains were a little too much magi-tech for me. Even the elemental powered carriages were a bit much, although I guess I can accept the rare elemental powered Sailing ships. I've also always loved the concept of Spelljammer so THAT kind of flying ship is always flying about out there for me.
In my own campaign world I've been dreaming up for years, I have a magic-heavy hidden city that conducts trade with the rest of the world with elemental powered flying ships. While I started with bound elementals like Eberon, I had the idea of the occasional, exceptional ship where a powerful elemental willingly agrees to bond with the ship. This allows the elemental to interact with the crew and even control much of its movement. This requires an Elementalist, which in my world is a kind of sorcerer who deals only with one chosen element, who generally acts as the Elemental's "keeper" seeing to its needs and acting as a liaison with the crew. This type of bond makes the ship faster, more maneuverable, and more powerful than the normal variety.
One of the more interesting ships I envisioned was the flag ship of this cities fleet. It is a massive hull hanging from two Blimp-like cylinders which each hold an extremely powerful elemental, one of air and one of fire. The two had been in conflict for ages before they were bound into the ship, and now they unleash an enormous amount of power which runs the massive vessel. Large cannon-like projectors can unleash massive fire bursts, and lightning rod looking devices unleash powerful electrical attacks. Added to the power of the wizards usually on board this thing, it’s a terror of the skies.
|
| SaMoCon |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 08:13:10
Well, anime is notorious for rocks that float to represent forewarning of "ridiculously powerful weapon about to fire/impact" so much so that it has been referred as a motif by many of its English-speaking fans. Floating rocks with cities built onto them have been a staple since at least Starblazers from the 70s if not earlier. Eden's Bowy has warring cities flying above a ground-bound population unaware of the conflict in the sky and believing the aerial civilizations to be paradise. The .hack/ series all takes place in a fantasy rpg computer game, which has been synonymous with floating lands since the Final Fantasy franchise first started. Soul Hunter has a realm of the gods hovering over the Earth and looking down on the efforts of mortal creatures until a few come up to put an end to the gods' meddling. Even the two examples you named, Last Exile & Escaflowne (TV & Movie), I am aware of and have in my library. The descriptions for how any of it works... it's "protoculture," right? Anyhow...
What I am getting at is not that people would give up the pursuit of flight, but the pursuit of magical flight. Just like dirigibles having been shoved completely aside for fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft, what would be the alternative in the realms? Beholders have an extraordinary natural buoyancy that persists even after death (or, so their undead mobility would lead me to believe). It may be dangerous but harvesting beholder bodies should provide a source of lift that would not be outside the realm of possibility in the FR and without having to alter the setting and having slight to no impact on the economics/socio-politics. But this can't be the only such idea. Your thoughts? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 05:03:03
Back on the topic of magical airships... In the Vision of Escaflowne anime series, they had flying ships. They never really discussed the mechanics of it, but these rocks that apparently floated naturally were integral to it.
The Last Exile anime series doesn't use magical flying ships. Instead, they had "vanships" that were only vaguely aerodynamic, but still flew like airplanes, because of the use of a liquid called "Claudia." Again, mechanics aren't really discussed in the series.
So there's a couple of potential angles, right there. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 04:53:39
Indeed. The Hindenberg may have certainly influenced the turn away from zeppelins, but it wasn't the only reason that this shift happened. There was also the issue of procuring enough helium, and the fact that heavier-than-air aircraft could make the same trips, far more quickly.
In the Realms, if you want to get a ship in the air, your only option is magic. You either do it with magic or you don't do it. And as our own attempts to get airborne show, some people are more than willing to risk their lives for the possibility of flying. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 01:54:21
quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
... even though getting out of Ravenloft is extremely hard(but has been done)
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
By whom?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Lord Soth, for one, though it's kind of a hazy area in canon. TSR dropped him into Ravenloft, and Weis and Hickman did not care for that and planned to ignore it, so it was decided that the Dark Powers couldn't punish Soth and kicked him out.
Also, the 3rd Ed version of Ravenloft provided Loremasters with a list of setting specific Secrets including one that allowed the character to exit the Realms of Dread.
Anyways, we're pretty far afield of the OP's topic of Airships. I do have a question regarding them. Who would dare use one post-Spellplague? I mean, one Hindenburg disaster and the rising dominance of Zeppelins was ended IRL. Magic suddenly going wonky or failing altogether in the FR has happened multiple times with at least one of those times being infamous with people plummeting from the skies to their deaths. Apparently nothing of the sort was said during the Time of Troubles but the Spellplague seems to have been different without really going into detail. Given the fickle and demonstratively dangerous nature of Magic in the FR who would still be using these things?
EDIT: fixed some improper tags
Well, thousands of years in between these ridiculous realm shattering disasters may not discourage the average Gondsman. Hindenburg disaster did discourage some airtravel, but We see jets all over the world today despite lots of heavily publicized crashes.
Apollo 1 did not stop them from trying again. heck, I remember space Shuttle challenger on live TV like yesterday. but we kept on going. |
| SaMoCon |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 01:42:55
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
... even though getting out of Ravenloft is extremely hard(but has been done)
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
By whom?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Lord Soth, for one, though it's kind of a hazy area in canon. TSR dropped him into Ravenloft, and Weis and Hickman did not care for that and planned to ignore it, so it was decided that the Dark Powers couldn't punish Soth and kicked him out.
Also, the 3rd Ed version of Ravenloft provided Loremasters with a list of setting specific Secrets including one that allowed the character to exit the Realms of Dread.
Anyways, we're pretty far afield of the OP's topic of Airships. I do have a question regarding them. Who would dare use one post-Spellplague? I mean, one Hindenburg disaster and the rising dominance of Zeppelins was ended IRL. Magic suddenly going wonky or failing altogether in the FR has happened multiple times with at least one of those times being infamous with people plummeting from the skies to their deaths. Apparently nothing of the sort was said during the Time of Troubles but the Spellplague seems to have been different without really going into detail. Given the fickle and demonstratively dangerous nature of Magic in the FR who would still be using these things?
EDIT: fixed some improper tags |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 21:02:57
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
... even though getting out of Ravenloft is extremely hard(but has been done)
By whom?
Lord Soth, for one, though it's kind of a hazy area in canon. TSR dropped him into Ravenloft, and Weis and Hickman did not care for that and planned to ignore it, so it was decided that the Dark Powers couldn't punish Soth and kicked him out. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 16:09:37
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
... even though getting out of Ravenloft is extremely hard(but has been done)
By whom? |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 15:57:12
quote:
Originally posted by Faediira
would eberron airships be usuable in faerun? I know there's a binding process with the elemental and such...
Netherese had skimmers - boats propelled by air elementals.
And of course were more than familiar with the concept of flying structures.
Which is unlikely to bode well for interlopers who would openly use suspiciously similar methods, of course.
[20] Volo: As I was saying, wizards tend to be a mite suspicious of the world around - and not always without reason.
Also, Mystara had airships long before Eberron.
Of course, one of them is a gnomish dirigible with elemental-powered steam engines... |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 02:03:13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
To me, Ravenloft was the most hopeless setting. I can see that argument for Dark Sun, but at least in that setting, a comfortable existence without living in fear of darkness was possible. Life sucked for a lot of people on Athas, but at least they didn't have to worry about becoming the things that terrified themselves, their friends, and their neighbors. Life is hard on Athas, but you've got a better chance of death by natural causes and no fears about the land itself actively turning against you.
In Ravenloft, the best you could hope for was a peaceful death.
I dunno. Ravenloft sucked, but a lot of people think Athas is worse lol. I remember threads involving "Why don't people of Athas try to get to less crappy planes via Ravenloft" even though getting out of Ravenloft is extremely hard(but has been done) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 01:13:03
To me, Ravenloft was the most hopeless setting. I can see that argument for Dark Sun, but at least in that setting, a comfortable existence without living in fear of darkness was possible. Life sucked for a lot of people on Athas, but at least they didn't have to worry about becoming the things that terrified themselves, their friends, and their neighbors. Life is hard on Athas, but you've got a better chance of death by natural causes and no fears about the land itself actively turning against you.
In Ravenloft, the best you could hope for was a peaceful death. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 01:06:57
I never quite understood Athas. Noone has any food and are malnourished. Yet, they're rippling with muscles???????? They also tended to have better scores in other things as well, whereas a typical malnourished person suffers in intelligence, etc..... |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 00:49:40
quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
I dunno Firestorm. I see those sort of settings as one that challenge characters to build meaning in life, rather than running after something that's already there and likely taken for granted. A sort of "grit your teeth and go at your problems with a blade in each fist," sort of thing.
In those types of settings, meaning in life becomes survival lol.
Honor and deeper meaning generally do not exist very much, and even if they do, they usually get cannibalized by people who do not give an efff very quickly. |
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