| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Demzer |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 15:59:51
I'm doing some research for my "home" Realms campaign and i'm trying to gather all canon on this elven subrace and it's society and culture. So far i've identified as sources the 3E sourcebook Unapproachable East, the 3E adventure Twilight Tomb, the novel Stardeep and the good old GHotR for chronological purposes.
The novel is just weird and doesn't mix well with all the rest of the lore sources, i've taken a break reading it because i couldn't find much Star Elven lore and i can't shake off the sci-fi feeling of that weird golem AI (plus why aboleths when the nilshai were right there?).
The adventure was surprisingly useful if you dig a bit, and gives a lot of examples of architecture and internal organization of public buildings plus it gives more than hints on Star Elven magic specialties (gem magic and cristalline costructs) and even insight on burial/funeral rites (albeit with a small hiccup).
The sourcebook is good and gives a lot of other clues, as many of you know, and points to the third and probably last specialty of Star Elven magic: song/sonic magic.
Putting all the pieces together i can pull off something believable except for the last bit of elusive knowledge: Star Elven religion.
Now, while Unapproachable East says clearly that the Star Elves worship the Seldarine and Corellon in particular i couldn't find any reference to any elven god in the other sources: not in the novel were it isn't (so far) well explained who posted this Star Elves with improbable office names in this prison, not in the adventure descriptions of the vast magical library of the ruined school of wizardry, not even in the burial/funeral rites passages of the adventure.
Furthermore the various 3E passages that deal with the encroaching nilshai threat specifically say that Sildeyuir is isolated and it's carefully thinking about making contact with Toril for assistance and that's something that would be really puzzling if in Sildeyuir were present clerics/acolytes/faithful of the Seldarine since i suppose the Seldarine would move their Toril based forces to help their beleaguered Sildeyuir worshippers. I'm not talking about skyships and armies from Evermeet, but even token forces of elven adventurers sponsored by Corellon or other of the Seldarine would surely be dispatched to look into the matter. Instead we get a picture of an isolated Sildeyuir with ethereal horrors going on a rampage.
To muck things more we know of the existence of the Yuir gods, worshiped by the ancient Yuir human tribesmen and by the green/wild elves that composed (with the Star Elves) the realm of Yuireshanyaar.
So, onto my questions:
- Are there more sources on the Star Elves people/culture/society?
- What gives regarding Star Elven religion? Do they still worship the Seldarine? Did they ever worshiped the Yuir gods?
- If they still worship the Seldarine, why aren't the frigging tree huggers moving their cute butts to help their beleaguered brethrens? Don't the Seldarine care for an almost extinct branch of the family (that isn't involved in any particular fratricide past catastrophe)?
- If they don't worship the Seldarine, may they have evolved into an "atheist"/faithless society were there are no clerics, just wizards, High Mages, bards and more mundane individuals with no divine influence? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Baltas |
Posted - 29 Oct 2015 : 21:44:29
Indeed, as allways, George provided lots of needed information! It seems that indeed Star Elves have a much stronger tie with Faerie and Feywild.
I myself used a custom version of the Eladrin race to represent the Star Elves while playing 5E, instead just giving them an +1 to Charisma, instead of Inteligence.
http://media.wizards.com/2014/downloads/dnd/DMG_286.pdf |
| Demzer |
Posted - 29 Oct 2015 : 20:36:58
Thankfully Mr. George Krashos had a lot to say on the Star Elves of the Yuirwood, check out his thread's last pages for his insight.
It certainly helped me understand and shape things up better and cleared some of the mud i was asking about in this thread. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 29 Oct 2015 : 16:17:26
Very interesting idea Wooly, I thought of something along those lines, but your version sounds better...
Yeah, as I mentioned, the Star Elves do seem connected to the Faerie more strongly |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Oct 2015 : 16:10:22
While it is correct that some spelljamming elves have wound up in Evermeet, and the Elven Imperial Navy does have a presence in Realmspace, I'm not aware of anything that suggests that star elves are not native to Toril.
Keep in mind that star elves were introduced in 3E -- Spelljammer was a 2E that was swept under the carpet after the end of 2E.
My personal supposition is that the star elves originated in Faerie, but made it to the Realms via a separate (possibly earlier) exodus than the one that brought the moon and sun elves. I would imagine that they settled in the Yuirwood area and that either some arrangement had been made with the Yuir deities, or they felt they owed the Yuir deities and switched to their veneration. Perhaps the star elves were trapped in Faerie and one of more of the Yuir deities became aware of their plight and brought them to the Realms...
Going with a multiple exodus approach could explain why there's such a variety of elves in the D&D multiverse. |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 29 Oct 2015 : 15:20:37
I don't remember the date it happened but there was a crew of a spell jamming elf ship that crashed near Evermeet and settled there. Maybe some of them resettled later. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 27 Oct 2015 : 11:00:04
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Seldarine-worshipping elves could not be mixed with others, obviously. At least after some point, when it mattered more and more.
Knowing the elves (considering the history of Eaerlann and Ravens Bluff), there are only two obvious options, IMO:
A) Star Elves venerated another pantheon.
They didn't quite get along with the rest and chose to get lost on their own, before they'll end up like Dark Elves or worse. To Yuirwood. And understandably didn't have much contact with the outside ever after. When later Unther and then Nar leaned on them, they had no allies, so eventually they could only run again, and the only place that would have them was a demiplane of their own.
Later the other elves destroyed, defaced and blocked whatever reminders of that pantheon were left behind.
B) Star Elves venerate the Seldarine. Other (Green?) elves venerated the pantheon now only known as "Yuir".
After a brief struggle with locals those stones were defaced or warded.
Then the ancestors of Star Elves settled there to make sure that the other pantheon (whether it was initially venerated by the elves or "borrowed" from others) won't return to poach elves from the Seldarine again. The rest of differences are mainly due to living away from the rest and having curious magical phenomena to study.
Well, if my assumption that connects Star Elves to Faerie Elves of other worlds is correct, I think it's possible the Star Elves worshipped the Faerie Pantheon/Seelie Court. The Seelie court was even renamed in 4E as the Court of the Stars. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 27 Oct 2015 : 02:55:43
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
The novel is just weird and doesn't mix well with all the rest of the lore sources, i've taken a break reading it because i couldn't find much Star Elven lore and i can't shake off the sci-fi feeling of that weird golem AI (plus why aboleths when the nilshai were right there?).
If common sense mattered to those who run things now... 
quote:
Putting all the pieces together i can pull off something believable except for the last bit of elusive knowledge: Star Elven religion.
Now, while Unapproachable East says clearly that the Star Elves worship the Seldarine and Corellon in particular i couldn't find any reference to any elven god in the other sources
- If they still worship the Seldarine, why aren't the frigging tree huggers moving their cute butts to help their beleaguered brethrens? Don't the Seldarine care for an almost extinct branch of the family (that isn't involved in any particular fratricide past catastrophe)?
You pinpointed the elephant in the room, whom Elves are trying (sometimes violently) to bury under the carpet, and even then only after colliding with it. 
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Uhm well the Star Elves were identified as Star Elves already in -6950 and they were living inside the sun and moon elves community of wider Faerun (since it's said that they left the other elven nations behind). It's only in -699 DR that they segregated themselves into Sildeyuir.
I think there is something amiss either in the Yuirwood or with the Star Elves themselves
Blame the elephant. 
Seldarine-worshipping elves could not be mixed with others, obviously. At least after some point, when it mattered more and more.
Knowing the elves (considering the history of Eaerlann and Ravens Bluff), there are only two obvious options, IMO:
A) Star Elves venerated another pantheon.
They didn't quite get along with the rest and chose to get lost on their own, before they'll end up like Dark Elves or worse. To Yuirwood. And understandably didn't have much contact with the outside ever after. When later Unther and then Nar leaned on them, they had no allies, so eventually they could only run again, and the only place that would have them was a demiplane of their own.
Later the other elves destroyed, defaced and blocked whatever reminders of that pantheon were left behind.
B) Star Elves venerate the Seldarine. Other (Green?) elves venerated the pantheon now only known as "Yuir".
After a brief struggle with locals those stones were defaced or warded.
Then the ancestors of Star Elves settled there to make sure that the other pantheon (whether it was initially venerated by the elves or "borrowed" from others) won't return to poach elves from the Seldarine again. The rest of differences are mainly due to living away from the rest and having curious magical phenomena to study. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 25 Oct 2015 : 00:23:20
Sorry for my thread necromancy, but I noticed some stuff.
The Faerie Elves, a subtype of Grey Elves in core D&D and Greyhawk, seem to remind me the most of Star Elves, as Violet eyes were a Faerie Elf Trait.
The correspondene of Grey and High Elves to Sun and Moon Elves in Faerun, is a strange bit, as Sun Elves correspond more to Grey Elves, yet are called High Elves, and Moon Elves correspond more to High Elves, but are often called Grey Elves as an insult. This may be because at their origins, among the ancestors of Moon Elves(High Elves?) and Sun Elves(Grey Elves?) there was heavy crossbreeding with each other.
Although again, calling Gold Elves High Elves, and Moon Elves Grey Elves, harkens more closely to characterisation within Tolkien's books, as traits of High Elves and Grey elves were mixed up in D&D.
Also, I agree with eeorey's observation Star Elves also resemble Llewyr Elves. Both Llewyr and Star Elves seem more Faerie like, and exhibit features of both Moon and Sun Elves.
A fan work called A Treatise on Espruar
http://freepdfhosting.com/5f6a747504.pdf
Proposes something interesting, and I'm not sure if it came up with it, or took from some canon source :
quote:
faerie - "magical" - 1. magical, touched
by magic 2. a term used to describe a
gold elf with violet eyes and silver hair,
usually accompanied by a particularly
pale complexion. This is thought to be a
mark of favor and exceptional
intelligence by many elven cultures,
being the most rare of gold elven
coloring. Perhaps it marks
Rua'Tel'Quessir(Star/Mithral Elf) ancestry.
So I'm curious if it made up the connection of Faerie Elves among Sun Elves to Star Elves...
Still, this makes me wonder of maybe Star Elves aren't maybe a trowback to very ancient, Faerie-like elves. Star Elves do in fact resemble the idea of Eladrin from 4E the most among pre-existing elves in Faerun. Not to mention, Sildeyuir was relocated to Feywild... |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 19 Oct 2014 : 11:06:58
Demzer is correct. History section of Races of Faerun.
I've been doing some more writing about this lately for an unofficial project. My take is that in the wake of the Crown Wars, some elves retreated into their cultures. (Gold and moon elven nobility moved to Arcorar, Evereska, Evermeet, etc.; green elves reverted to barbarism). Other elves, with the blessings of the Seldarine returned to nature, but remained civilized, blending the best of the other elven cultures. With the blessings of the Seldarine, these "back to the land" elves slowly became the wood elves over the next 4,000 to 5,000 years. The wood elves of the High Forest were the most famous such group to emerge, but the Wealdath and other forests saw them come into being as well.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I think the sources indicate that wood elves (distinct from wild elves) are the result of crossbreeding between various elven subraces.
One could argue that this was the intent of the Seldarine, as it happened in the wake of the Crown Wars.
Eric, by chance can you recall the source of this? I think I recall reading something similar. If so, that would indicate that long ago elves didn't breed true and now they do.
I half wonder, was there a high magic ritual cast as a means to increase the population of elves? For instance, elves create half-elves, who have a shorter lifespan and can produce children quicker. Then they breed the half-elves back to gain pure elven stock again with no longer any trace of humanity to them??
|
| Demzer |
Posted - 19 Oct 2014 : 10:49:27
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Eric, by chance can you recall the source of this?
I'm not Eric but Races of Faerun, wood elves chapter, history section is were i found it. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Oct 2014 : 00:57:47
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I think the sources indicate that wood elves (distinct from wild elves) are the result of crossbreeding between various elven subraces.
One could argue that this was the intent of the Seldarine, as it happened in the wake of the Crown Wars.
Eric, by chance can you recall the source of this? I think I recall reading something similar. If so, that would indicate that long ago elves didn't breed true and now they do.
I half wonder, was there a high magic ritual cast as a means to increase the population of elves? For instance, elves create half-elves, who have a shorter lifespan and can produce children quicker. Then they breed the half-elves back to gain pure elven stock again with no longer any trace of humanity to them?? |
| Demzer |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 16:31:33
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Star elves have some hair colour or whatnot which is distinctive of another elven group - cool, but I dont see why its a big deal.
Well no, they have automatic ghost touch on weapons and armors in starlight, different stats adjustments (+2 CHA, -2 CON) and a different favored class (bard) (all in 3E terms as there aren't other sources on them). It's not just the fact they have 2/3 hair colors that moon elves don't have or skin tones that gold elves don't have, they have distinctively different features as well. Downplaying such differences means that moon, sun, green and copper elves should be the same too since they too differ for a couple of stats adjustments and some skin tone and hair color. It may seem to be just arguing technicalities but it's this technicalities that result in different elven races as opposed to different human ethnicities.
EDIT: also yeah, Sildeyuir may have totally messed up the Star Elves genetics/harmony with the Weave/whatnot, but they were identified as Star Elves in -6950 DR, six thousands years before Sildeyuir. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 16:23:11
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So if elves were created to breed true, at some point some variation was entered into the mix -- otherwise, we'd only have on flavor of elf.
Why only one? Maybe they were created as a "matching set".
Of course, the same questions apply equally to Gold and Silver elves, Snow elves, Avariel, etc. as well as Mithral.
Also, "in normal circumstances and within scope of one generation breed true" is much less than "always remain constant".
quote:
That's what I wonder about: the source of that variation.
Right. "We also crave the need to speculate"(c) 
Let's start from limits: where and how strong is the border of "Does Not Mix"? We know that even when there's no question as to the inherited basic type ("subrace"), occasionally "cosmetic differences" get inherited from another, or even from humans.
Question: what happens if a set of such minor traits would pervade a whole population and become dominant? Still no effect on anything else?
Now, to the known facts of the elven nature.
The elves are supposed to become harmonized with whatever environment they are born into or live in. But a stick usually have more than one end. According to CBoE, elves have to be attuned to the world they live in, or they don't have all their magical properties in working order (as one could expect, this extends to High Magic).
Maybe this phenotipe stability is part of the same properties as elven resistances? If those can be weakened by leaving one's world for long enough (<CBoE), then a ildly different environment could prevent complete attunement and could thereby prevent stabilizing mechanisms from working properly. Which would leave elves as malleable/adaptable as any other critter, until changes (both in "mundane" physiology and on magical side - if those are two different things at all) bring their qualities into balance with these new conditions.
Elves also are especially responsive to some magic fields - being in the "shadow" of a Netherese mythallar is enough to temporarily mess up elven resistances (<Arcane Age sources), and a raising mythal may have psychodelic side-effects (<"Elminster in Myth Drannor").
Maybe, living in a place with different "magical background" for several generations is enough to bend their nature in ways that willo reflect the new conditions? E.g. elemental composition: could living close to great amount of granite or ice gradually transform them, first as magical creatures and then in flesh? There are known "ice adapted" variations both of light elves and drow, though not on Toril.
Of course, these two mechanisms are not mutually exlusive.
quote:
Either way, we do have a canon way for elves to change their race. And since we know it exists and has been done, it makes sense, to me, to use that to explain some of the various races.
"Akh'Faen'Tel'Quess"? Not really. Valid destinations seem to be existing subraces - "including drow, avariel, or aquatic elf (but not a lythari)". To generate gold, you need gold.
And even if it does allow arbitrary changes, there's still no reason to do so.
(1) That got very interesting implications in itself.
So, if it matters that elven subrace X is present in the Weave, what are limits of this method on quantity/range? Does this method work only in the Weave of Realmspace, or on any world?..
Yes, practical usefulness of HM as such is very low... but Elf Disguise (Vhaerunite wizards' "golhydarthiir") is said explicitly to work exclusively within limits of phenotypes of existing elven subraces - and it's Level 1 (one) spell. Time to start whistling.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 15:12:09
The gods are indeed a good explanation, in this case. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 11:26:32
I think the sources indicate that wood elves (distinct from wild elves) are the result of crossbreeding between various elven subraces.
One could argue that this was the intent of the Seldarine, as it happened in the wake of the Crown Wars. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 03:38:55
Yeah, but I'm looking at the "breeding true" aspect of elves. A sun elf and a moon elf that have kids are going to have sun elf and moon elf kids -- there is no mixing, at all. It's one or the other.
So if elves were created to breed true, at some point some variation was entered into the mix -- otherwise, we'd only have on flavor of elf.
That's what I wonder about: the source of that variation.
And, of course, thinking on that makes me wonder if the original breed, those that arose from Corellon's blood, is still around. Maybe they're one of the known flavors; maybe they're not.
Either way, we do have a canon way for elves to change their race. And since we know it exists and has been done, it makes sense, to me, to use that to explain some of the various races. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 02:22:37
The primary elven subtypes of the Realms have virtually identical counterparts on Oerth, Krynn, across numerous other spheres and worlds, even spanning multiple planes. Some sources (like the 2E PHBR8: Complete Handbook of Elves) use a simplified taxonomy to explain that the specifics of each elven subtype are fairly constant. Little variations occur, usually cosmetic things like hair and eye colouring, general complexion and build, etc. Few exceptions exists - like the Grugach and Valley elves of Oerth - but these are explained as more extreme variations from common subspecies stock who were altered by extraordinary supernatural manipulations.
The only elven subtype which is entirely isolated from the rest (as of 2E, anyhow) was found on Athas and given a special explanation for how they came to be.
Little differences in appearance, even little differences in typical temperament or magical proficiency are hardly valid reasons to turn elven origins upside down, methinks. Humans, dwarves, even orcs have large physical variations yet few would disagree about their origins or claim this-or-that particular population must indicate an entirely new explanation for the genesis of all populations.
Star elves have some hair colour or whatnot which is distinctive of another elven group - cool, but I dont see why its a big deal. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Oct 2014 : 17:48:37
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I don't think that a definitive answer to that was ever given. However, considering that all elves are supposed to have come from Corellon's blood and Sehannie's tears, I'd say that they've always been true breeding. That's the way their gods want them to be.
The thing is, though, that with elves breeding true to their race -- or to just a single race of one of their parents -- then we wind up with trying to explain how we have multiple elven races.
So the first, god-born elves should have continued breeding the same. But we've got a lot of other flavors, so the question comes about of how and why these other elven races arose.
Given the many flavors of elf we have in the Realms, I now find myself wondering if *any* of the current races is the same as the first, god-born elves.
Me, I think the High Magic ritual for changing the race is a ready explanation for some of the elven races. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 17 Oct 2014 : 17:23:11
I don't think that a definitive answer to that was ever given. However, considering that all elves are supposed to have come from Corellon's blood and Sehannie's tears, I'd say that they've always been true breeding. That's the way their gods want them to be. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 17 Oct 2014 : 02:50:07
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Uhm well the Star Elves were identified as Star Elves already in -6950 and they were living inside the sun and moon elves community of wider Faerun (since it's said that they left the other elven nations behind). It's only in -699 DR that they segregated themselves into Sildeyuir.
I think there is something amiss either in the Yuirwood or with the Star Elves themselves since their appearance (although Unapproachable East says they are mostly similar to moon elves) seems to vary a lot between what a sun elf and what a moon elf looks like (with Sharlarra being commonly mistaken for a sun elf for example). So they seem to be kind of inbetween the two big elven families.
Also i recall reading somewhere (anyone got a reference? I'm at a loss) that the Cha-Tel'Quessir of Aglarond breed true among themselves, something that tells them apart from any other half-elf on Faerun.
May it be a Star Elven quirk? May the Star Elves be a true breeding moon-sun elves crossbreed from a time of unity among the elven subraces (before the Crown Wars).
Also there was another maybe moon maybe sun elf lass in the canon Realms that had an odd mix of apperance and race, Ashemmi, could she be another Star Elf in disguise? [blasphemy! oh well, just throwing ideas around here]
Actually, except for the fact that they both have golden blonde hair, and one is known for copper hair and the other red hair... there's very little that makes them like sun elves. The sun elves have eyes of green or gold. The Star elves have eyes of gray or violet, with occasional gold flecks (the occasional gold flecks seems to come from the moon elves). The Star elves also occasionally have "silver white" hair, which is a moon elf trait. Given the eye color and the occasional white hair, one could even throw in some illythiiri/dark elves blood into the Star Elves.
Oh, and on all this, given that the elves are a true breeding race, this obviously would cause problems. A lot of the features could easily be attributed to Avariels as well (minus the wings of course). However, it does of course raise the question.... when did elves become "true breeding"? Was there some high magic ritual in the past that sealed the elves to always breed true.... and was this similar to how Asmodeus made the tieflings breed true? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 17 Oct 2014 : 02:39:18
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Uhm well the Star Elves were identified as Star Elves already in -6950 and they were living inside the sun and moon elves community of wider Faerun (since it's said that they left the other elven nations behind). It's only in -699 DR that they segregated themselves into Sildeyuir.
I think there is something amiss either in the Yuirwood or with the Star Elves themselves since their appearance (although Unapproachable East says they are mostly similar to moon elves) seems to vary a lot between what a sun elf and what a moon elf looks like (with Sharlarra being commonly mistaken for a sun elf for example). So they seem to be kind of inbetween the two big elven families.
Also i recall reading somewhere (anyone got a reference? I'm at a loss) that the Cha-Tel'Quessir of Aglarond breed true among themselves, something that tells them apart from any other half-elf on Faerun.
May it be a Star Elven quirk? May the Star Elves be a true breeding moon-sun elves crossbreed from a time of unity among the elven subraces (before the Crown Wars).
Also there was another maybe moon maybe sun elf lass in the canon Realms that had an odd mix of apperance and race, Ashemmi, could she be another Star Elf in disguise? [blasphemy! oh well, just throwing ideas around here]
Actually, except for the fact that they both have golden blonde hair, and one is known for copper hair and the other red hair... there's very little that makes them like sun elves. The sun elves have eyes of green or gold. The Star elves have eyes of gray or violet, with occasional gold flecks (the occasional gold flecks seems to come from the moon elves). The Star elves also occasionally have "silver white" hair, which is a moon elf trait. Given the eye color and the occasional white hair, one could even throw in some illythiiri/dark elves blood into the Star Elves. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 23:20:13
And yet another possibility -
The drow have been changed through some combination of (Corellon and Seldarine) divine decree, the mysterious magical radiations of the Underdark, and perhaps also by Lolths fiendish manipulations.
So, too, have the Star elves been changed.
By the peculiar properties of their extraplanar domain. Perhaps theres even just a never-been-revealed mythal active on the other side which accelerates such change?
Perhaps - probably - some divine power has taken an interest in these elves. I realize a primary purpose of this scroll is to determine exactly which deity this might be. Why not nominate cliche old Mystra or Selune (acting through a Chosen agent like the Simbul?) or even one of the underrated Seldarine?
Or why not an extraplanar interloper with some elven agenda? A powerful celestial (like the Planescape-era Eladrin, not the 4E PC race but the true elven angel sort) or even an outcast Fey Lord sort of being? Or - yes - some Neutralish power, some minor Fiend Lordling, whatever.
For all I know, the Star elves might have deliberately stood outside the Realms for some higher mission, and they might have been bred to the task just as the Feyri/Daemonfey were bred to theirs. They are a good contender for the mysterious temporal guardians referred to passingly in the 2E Chronomancer supplement. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 23:16:33
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Another possibility -
Subjective timeflow between the Realms and this extraplanar forested demiplace of the Star elves may not be synchronized. Star elves might have been around for *only* a few thousand years on the Realms yet may have also existed for countless millennia in their special little forest.
Such temporal considerations affect many planes and Primes, at least when measured against the Ethereal and Astral and (why not?) even Ravenloft.
Back in 2E, time in all of the linked settings flowed at the same rate... That may or may not still be the case, since at least a couple of the (formerly?) linked settings have advanced by decades or more.
Other than that quibble, good point, and a nifty suggestion. |
| eeorey |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 23:11:48
Not a possibility but reality, in the Unapproachable East sourcebook it is stated that "Two days on the Material Plane equal one day in Sildëyuir." |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 23:01:08
Another possibility -
Subjective timeflow between the Realms and this extraplanar forested demiplace of the Star elves may not be synchronized. Star elves might have been around for *only* a few thousand years on the Realms yet may have also existed for countless millennia in their special little forest.
Such temporal considerations affect many planes and Primes, at least when measured against the Ethereal and Astral and (why not?) even Ravenloft. |
| eeorey |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 22:43:49
To me star elves seem far more connected to the Llewyrr, they both build cities of crystal, they are both described as having the pale skin more akin to moon elves, but also blond and red hair that is common to the gold elves. They are both highly isolationist and have a high reliance on magic. |
| Demzer |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 14:29:44
@ Hoondatha: regarding half-elven true breeding it seems i put too much weight into Lauzoril's thoughts in The Simbul's Gift where its said that: "Lauzoril had heard that the Aglarondan mongrels bred true in the Yuirwood, but elsewhere in Faerun, the mongrels reverted to ancestral type."
I don't know where you get your 6000 years estimate, the Yuirwood it's not an unstable place (i sincerely don't know about the scrying shield, if it was there before the coming of the Star Elves), it's just a forest. Sildeyuir has a much shorter lifespan at 2000 years (thus 1/3 of the generations you calculated).
Furthermore Star Elves differ from Moon Elves not just in appearance, and it would be a rare occurence for a completely different breed of elves to spawn into being only due to geographical considerations (heck, even the drow were magically altered). It's like saying that green elves in the High Forest and green elves of the Waeldath should have different racial adjustments and abilities because they're thousands of miles apart.
@ kysus: it seems they were called Star Elves before migrating en masse in the Yuirwood.
@ Fellfire: Well actually it's kind of the reverse, Zandilar attempted to seduce Vhaeraun into helping the Yuir elves and instead was trapped, then Bast came along and successfully "distracted" Vhaeraun long enough to let Zandilar escape. At this point Zandilar was too weakened to survive as an indipendent deity and merged with Bast out of gratitude and necessity. The new merged goddess was "strong enough to help the Yuir elves drive off the drow forces for a time" probably thanks to Bast martial background as the leutenant of Anhur. (quoted text from Powers & Pantheons) |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 06:55:57
quote:
Originally posted by kysus
Some thoughts came to mind while reading this, but I was thinking that maybe the name star elf is a derivative of their original kingdom in Aglrond kinda like the Miyeritari being a reference to their kingdom.
Maybe, but it looks more like extension of the existing naming schemes: "Sun" - "Moon" - "Star". "Gold" - "Silver" - "Mithral". |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 22:23:32
I thought Zandilar's subsumption by Bast was a last ditch effort to save her from Vhaeraun's hostile takeover/seduction.
I wonder what was to stop him from doing the same to Bast. Obviously now she was forewarned, but I did not think she was all that powerful to begin with. |
| kysus |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 22:22:58
Some thoughts came to mind while reading this, but I was thinking that maybe the name star elf is a derivative of their original kingdom in Aglrond kinda like the Miyeritari being a reference to their kingdom. It could have started out as something like them being known as Sildeyuiri which could have translated into common as people of the kingdom of twinkling stars or something like that to being corrupted over time to star elves. And as far as the cosmetic changes that could have been a side effect of the demiplane that they may have used high magic to make. |
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