| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Demzer |
Posted - 20 Sep 2014 : 15:40:21
Hi all,
i'm working with the pantheon in my home campaign and i stumbled upon a conundrum involving the lowest ranks of divine status and highest of divine servitude. This all started with the convergence of two needs of mine: my opinion that some deities of the Faerunian pantheon can't stand on their own (like Gwaeron Windstromm, Finder, Ulutiu) and the possibility for some of the most powerful epic characters of my players to approach the divine playing field.
I don't want to kill any deity because i like more options but i can't justify in my campaign the indipendent survival of those deities i mentioned in the pantheon just with their own faithful's "worship-power", on the other hand i can't justify the ascension of an orcish demigod of magic just on a personal power basis because one of my players has a 28th level mountain orc wizard still rising in power.
These two train of thoughts got me thinking about the position of some deities and the terminology associated with those entities (divine and para/quasi/pseudo-divine) that serve deities in one form or another: from the vaguely generic "servitor/subordinate" deities (like Sharess serving Sune or Torm serving Tyr) with not much in the way of specific understanding of this type of relationship to the "exarchs" of 4E (from what i could tell a catch all term for anything with a spark of divine power serving a greater deity) to the"seraphs" of 2E (individual divine servitors without what we could define as a specific divine rank, but immortals, with very specific and powerful capabilities and with vowed loyalty to a divine patron).
In my view the 4E term "exarch" could suit my needs perfectly but i have just a vague understanding of the implications of the term and i intensely dislike how it was used to divide and define the pantheon in 4E (with the goblinoids deities serving Bane, the one and only god that actively encouraged his lackeys to enslave and use as meat-shields goblinoids all over Faerun for centuries).
I find "servitor deity" too vague to suit my needs because it encompass both deities that can surely sustain themselves indipendently and have a clearly defined base of worshipers (like Sharess, Torm, Savras, Azuth) and deities i can't justify as being deities in their own right (Gwaeron, Finder).
The 2E "seraphs" (of whom i know only 3: Malik seraph of lies and Avner seraph of the dead and then seraph of thieves) are really interesting because they represent the exact kind of immortal special deific agents that in my opinion would have suited all the pantheon better than hundreds of mortal Chosens existing with no rime or reason. Yet they lack one of the fundamental defining characteristic of deities, the need of worship and thus the spark of true divine power.
This means i'm still stuck with at least 2 categories: one for those deities that can't live off their own worshipers and thus serve another deity to survive (servitor deities? exarchs?) and one for the elite of divine agents, the top of the divine serving piramidal structure, unique individuals with impressive capabilities connected to their patron portfolio(s) but without the spark of divinity (seraphs? angels? Chosens-with-benefits?)
I don't know if i made sense with all this mess but i ask for your help in understanding better the "canon" categories of divine servitude (servitor deities, 4E exarchs, 2E seraphs, other types i may be ignoring) and devising a way in which i could allow Gwaeron to survive as a divine being that responds to worship even with just a handful of rangers actively praying him and for my players to enter the divine playing field without jumping to unexplainable power and glory with no justification.
Any and all stray thoughts on (lesser) divinity are appreciated. |
| 5 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Demzer |
Posted - 22 Sep 2014 : 13:58:45
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The seraphs of 2E were, in my mind, Chosen for deities that weren't Mystra. Basically, the way I see it, Chosen and Seraph are both titles for people with divine favor and at least a tiny spark of divinity; more than mortal but nowhere near being actual deities.
Exarch could work, for the same thing. I really dislike every other deity having Chosen. I like them having their own quasidivine servants; just call them something else.
Yeah, i like the seraphs more than lots of mortal Chosens for every deity (although i'm guilty of "Choosing" some selected NPCs here and there in my own Realms Campaign to give them unique powers and some stat boosts).
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I have done an article on divinity for issue 6 of my magazine if u r looking for rules on the divine. I dont include exarches and other 4e terms (except primordials) but it does go into a few ways to become a god and what it means to be one.
How weaker gods survive (particularly demigods) is up to you but some of course dont (like those in service to talos).
And i'll be reading your article as soon as it's out, your input is always appreciated.
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
Perhaps your looking for something between a powerful celestial and a demigod.
Something like a Galaxar:
http://dicefreaks.freeforums.org/galaxar-stats-old-t10.html
Too bad they don't exist in Forgotten realms Canon....
Interesting, yeah, i had something like this in mind, but with no stat-block and uber powers in the broken ELH style, just a title that could apply to a lot of beings that shared a position of servitude to a deity and of qualitatively comparable power.
I think i'll "demote" some deities to exarch status, meaning they survive only because their superior deities lends them strenght, and i'll have fun filling the void ranks of seraphs everywhere with my players' characters and interesting NPCs.
On the seraphs, are there any other in canon beside Malik and Avner? Should i bother Ed? |
| jordanz |
Posted - 21 Sep 2014 : 03:47:34
Perhaps your looking for something between a powerful celestial and a demigod.
Something like a Galaxar:
http://dicefreaks.freeforums.org/galaxar-stats-old-t10.html
Too bad they don't exist in Forgotten realms Canon.... |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 20 Sep 2014 : 17:46:04
I have done an article on divinity for issue 6 of my magazine if u r looking for rules on the divine. I dont include exarches and other 4e terms (except primordials) but it does go into a few ways to become a god and what it means to be one.
How weaker gods survive (particularly demigods) is up to you but some of course dont (like those in service to talos). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Sep 2014 : 16:43:28
The seraphs of 2E were, in my mind, Chosen for deities that weren't Mystra. Basically, the way I see it, Chosen and Seraph are both titles for people with divine favor and at least a tiny spark of divinity; more than mortal but nowhere near being actual deities.
Exarch could work, for the same thing. I really dislike every other deity having Chosen. I like them having their own quasidivine servants; just call them something else. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 20 Sep 2014 : 16:00:38
There never really was any logic to 4e's exarchs. The term was used willy-nilly all over the place. From powerful mortal servants in mid-paragon up to former lesser deities in mid-epic the term was applied without rhyme or reason |
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