| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Cards77 |
Posted - 25 Aug 2014 : 23:43:08
Has there been anything written, canon or otherwise regarding coded messages and the use cryptography in general? I am interested in giving my players a puzzle to figure out in the form of a coded letter or message, where they have to locate the cipher, and then decode the message.
Have any of you done this in your campaign? What did you use? How did it go?
I've done some research on cryptography from the early middle ages and frankly even the simplest of methods I struggle to understand.
My thought was to somehow compose a letter either in Common or using Dethek or other (mostly an excuse to use the awesome fonts provided on this site), and then the PCs will need to find the cipher and use it to decode the letter to get the true message.
I would like to physically print this letter on a scroll and give it to the players, and then when they find the cipher, provide that to them and them have fun trying to solve it. |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Sep 2014 : 04:29:31
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Although I'm sure that you'd be able to find some tinker gnomes willing to produce a mechanical steam-powered decoder ring, provided you look in the right places, and provided you don't mind the stench of alchemical smokepowder.
Or the likelihood that this decoder ring would probably only succeed in further confusing the state of the cipher.  |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 09 Sep 2014 : 02:54:50
Hmphf, dwarven Dethek is the proper language for engineering a cipher. Not some silly purple-prosed elfy tongue.
Although I'm sure that you'd be able to find some tinker gnomes willing to produce a mechanical steam-powered decoder ring, provided you look in the right places, and provided you don't mind the stench of alchemical smokepowder. |
| Cards77 |
Posted - 09 Sep 2014 : 01:30:01
quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
quote:
Basic cryptography methods have been in since the early middle ages, so I feel the basics are appropriate to the time/technology and setting. Don't get me wrong the ciphers were very basic, like monoalphabetic where you just needed to replace one letter with another letter (say R with T) to get the proper message.
Actually, it's far older, still. The Caesar Cipher, for instance.
Its certainly fair game at Realms-level of society and technology.
Do you have any thoughts or ideas on how to use it in the game? Have you used it before?
I figured out how to use a simple Ceaserian shift, and put it in the Espruar Alphabet. Now....does anyone want to make me a cipher wheel in Espruar?  |
| Darkheyr |
Posted - 09 Sep 2014 : 00:19:19
quote:
Basic cryptography methods have been in since the early middle ages, so I feel the basics are appropriate to the time/technology and setting. Don't get me wrong the ciphers were very basic, like monoalphabetic where you just needed to replace one letter with another letter (say R with T) to get the proper message.
Actually, it's far older, still. The Caesar Cipher, for instance.
Its certainly fair game at Realms-level of society and technology. |
| Razz |
Posted - 30 Aug 2014 : 00:10:15
Comprehend Languages says it only imparts literal meaning of a message or text, not any actual insight into the work. So a coded message could still be read as "Bread and Butter", and could possible have some sort of code within that that still needs deciphering. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 28 Aug 2014 : 03:45:47
Ah, simply speaking/writing in foreign languages is a good way to foil eavesdropping, for the most part. And there's plenty of foreign languages in the Realms, no matter where you hail. Thieves' Cant, drow silent speaking, etc, can basically be intermixed within any other "common" language, yet allow something like a second (hidden) meaning to enter conversation. I recall reading somewhere that all elves cultivate this sort of conversation-behind-a-conversation method in their speech, somehow ... but I cannot recall where I read it.
Comprehend languages, thief Read Language skills, and the like can decipher such communications easily, yes. But such methods aren't accessible to the vast majority, and their application tends to be unsubtle. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 28 Aug 2014 : 01:59:40
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
Has there been anything written, canon or otherwise regarding coded messages and the use cryptography in general? I am interested in giving my players a puzzle to figure out in the form of a coded letter or message, where they have to locate the cipher, and then decode the message.
Have any of you done this in your campaign? What did you use? How did it go?
I've done some research on cryptography from the early middle ages and frankly even the simplest of methods I struggle to understand.
My thought was to somehow compose a letter either in Common or using Dethek or other (mostly an excuse to use the awesome fonts provided on this site), and then the PCs will need to find the cipher and use it to decode the letter to get the true message.
I would like to physically print this letter on a scroll and give it to the players, and then when they find the cipher, provide that to them and them have fun trying to solve it.
I've done this in the past. The key to making it fun is to throw in some words that don't translate well. For instance, if you write it in Elvish Espruar, throw in some terms that are distinctly elvish, so that even after they translate the font into "English" there's still words there that may not make sense to them.
For this, I'd recommend looking at the elven dictionary here at Candlekeep
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/diction_elf.htm
You can find similar things for dark elves (I think the old drow book from 2nd edition had a lexicon of words)
Similar ideas can be seen in the Grand History of the Realms, where the history of Jhaamdath mentions udoxias... or where the talk of Narfell and Raumathar uses sarn, sarnar, hortha, and drith...
So, in the end, maybe they translate it, but they have some words they have to research. Then you can introduce the sage or library or whatever where they go research that bit (and you could even let them use the internet to simulate said research). You may want to put some encounter that they have to overcome in order to utilize said resource, which would make the uncovering actually seem to have some meaning (maybe the sage needs them to handle some thugs for him who are threatening his brother who works the docks). |
| Cards77 |
Posted - 27 Aug 2014 : 00:34:43
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Various AD&D 2E sourcebooks offered a Cryptography nonweapon proficiency option. Sages can be hired to decrypt puzzling writings, for a price. Thieves are said to often make use of special codes and communications to obscure their criminal activities. Harpers make use of all sorts of "secret" codes. Illusionists have write their magic in an encoded form called Ruathlek. The Red Wizards, too, have somehow encoded their magical writings. Various spells (like comprehend languages, secret page, etc) specify that while they will translate actual words, they will not decipher codes and ciphers. Royalty and nobility (and their agents) also sometimes send coded messages to each other, although these tend to often be rather unsophisticated coding schemes or rely heavily on the skills of particular couriers. Mega-NPCs like Khelben and Elminster have been known to employ all sorts of "unbreakable" code methods, magical and otherwise.
Cryptography is the sort of thing I would implement through some sort of skill mechanic. Applying real-world crypto algorythms to fantasy/medieval settings seems inappropriate, especially when coding machines, higher mathematics, and computing power are basically off-limits to anyone except - perhaps - a handful of highly eccentric (and half-autistic) tinker gnomes. In perspective, great thinkers and natural philosophers of our Early Renaissance era dabbled in cryptography. So did lovers and poets (if you could call their simple ciphers and shared-context wordplay proper codes). Only late in our Industrial age did we realistically have any capability for building crypto-machinery, and only during great wars did we have enough interest (and military need) in the topic to make any fundamental breakthroughs. Arguably, it's a field of study that (until recent decades) has lagged a bit behind where it really could be, we could have had WWI-equivalent code making/breaking "computers" much earlier if pioneering computer scientists and logicians and mathematicians (like Charles Babbage and his daughter Ada) garnered more success in earlier centuries.
D&D makes much better use of riddles and puzzles and heraldric insignia and glyphs and trail markers than it does of raw cryptography, methinks.
Basic cryptography methods have been in since the early middle ages, so I feel the basics are appropriate to the time/technology and setting. Don't get me wrong the ciphers were very basic, like monoalphabetic where you just needed to replace one letter with another letter (say R with T) to get the proper message.
Some of the known examples are so easy you and I can look at them and see that every word is only off by one letter, but someone who isn't highly literate would likely be puzzled by it for a time.
I'm also not good at designing physical puzzles, and I really need something basic but that can still challenge them to figure it out. |
| Cards77 |
Posted - 27 Aug 2014 : 00:29:14
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you have problems with cryptography, I don't know that I'd rely on it as a tool. You may make a mistake that impacts the decryption, or you might put a lot of work into something the PCs easily solve.
Also, in the Realms, magic can be used to read unknown languages -- I'd not imagine that it's all that uncommon or difficult to use magic to decrypt an obvious cipher.
yeah really I'd like just like a simple puzzle/coded letter that the PCs can solve. Anything can be solved with magic or a sage but then the players aren't doing the solving. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 02:40:49
Various AD&D 2E sourcebooks offered a Cryptography nonweapon proficiency option. Sages can be hired to decrypt puzzling writings, for a price. Thieves are said to often make use of special codes and communications to obscure their criminal activities. Harpers make use of all sorts of "secret" codes. Illusionists have write their magic in an encoded form called Ruathlek. The Red Wizards, too, have somehow encoded their magical writings. Various spells (like comprehend languages, secret page, etc) specify that while they will translate actual words, they will not decipher codes and ciphers. Royalty and nobility (and their agents) also sometimes send coded messages to each other, although these tend to often be rather unsophisticated coding schemes or rely heavily on the skills of particular couriers. Mega-NPCs like Khelben and Elminster have been known to employ all sorts of "unbreakable" code methods, magical and otherwise.
Cryptography is the sort of thing I would implement through some sort of skill mechanic. Applying real-world crypto algorythms to fantasy/medieval settings seems inappropriate, especially when coding machines, higher mathematics, and computing power are basically off-limits to anyone except - perhaps - a handful of highly eccentric (and half-autistic) tinker gnomes. In perspective, great thinkers and natural philosophers of our Early Renaissance era dabbled in cryptography. So did lovers and poets (if you could call their simple ciphers and shared-context wordplay proper codes). Only late in our Industrial age did we realistically have any capability for building crypto-machinery, and only during great wars did we have enough interest (and military need) in the topic to make any fundamental breakthroughs. Arguably, it's a field of study that (until recent decades) has lagged a bit behind where it really could be, we could have had WWI-equivalent code making/breaking "computers" much earlier if pioneering computer scientists and logicians and mathematicians (like Charles Babbage and his daughter Ada) garnered more success in earlier centuries.
D&D makes much better use of riddles and puzzles and heraldric insignia and glyphs and trail markers than it does of raw cryptography, methinks. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 00:15:24
If you have problems with cryptography, I don't know that I'd rely on it as a tool. You may make a mistake that impacts the decryption, or you might put a lot of work into something the PCs easily solve.
Also, in the Realms, magic can be used to read unknown languages -- I'd not imagine that it's all that uncommon or difficult to use magic to decrypt an obvious cipher. |
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