| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 25 May 2013 : 20:50:40
This was brought up once before (and George was of course right; the bit in Volo's Guide was repeated in the North) but I don't see any identification.
Did the Halls of the Hammer have another name, when it was still a dwarf-hold?
Was it part of a larger kingdom, or was it an independent hold?
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| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 08 Sep 2014 : 22:27:27
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Sounds good. Might this be the source of some tactless elves derisively calling dwarves "stumpy?" 
Looking forward to seeing more on Arvuddaern!
I settled on Caerildaern for the name of the elven village over Arvuddaern.
I settled on Vallahirsonn for the original (dwarven) name of the Halls of the Hammer.
Use if you wish.
--Eric |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 29 Aug 2014 : 21:01:51
Sounds good. Might this be the source of some tactless elves derisively calling dwarves "stumpy?"
Looking forward to seeing more on Arvuddaern! |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 29 Aug 2014 : 20:05:40
I came up with a dwarven name for the stronghold: Arvuddaern (literally "Stump Haven").
It makes sense for an idea I have.
--Eric
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Yea, it is kinda confusing but I'm getting something that works (either correctly reading between the lines or else fabricating it).
The North (The Wilderness, pg 58) says "the newly-rebuilt Stronghold of the Nine and additional outbuildings, now collectively becoming called Caerilcarn by the elves that occupy it."
Lost Empires (pg 91) identifies "The Caerilcarn, a group of elves that proclaims itself the vanguard of a new Eaerlann..."
That suggests to me that Caerilcarn is the name the elves are claiming, and for whatever reason they're calling their camp by the same name. I suspect they have their own name for their refurbishment of the Stronghold of the Nine, but they're just not using that name in conversation with outsiders. Since Caerilcarn translates as "Council of the Wood" (Lost Empires pg 94) it's easy to imagine a misunderstanding on the part of any non-elf. If visitors are allowed to live (perhaps a big "if") they're probably greeted with some form of "welcome to Caerilcarn" which could easily imply that it's their name for the physical place when in fact the elves are welcoming you to a metaphorical place; a council. In humanized layman's terms. Alternatively, the place where this council is taking shape (currently this particular fortress but it might be elsewhere later on) is Caerilcarn, and the elves participating are introducing themselves by the same name.
Still leaves the question of what the dwarves called their outpost before the Stronghold of the Nine was added on. And of course the original name of the Halls of the Hammer.
Also: it's pretty cool to have a thread rezzed by you Eric. Thankya.
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| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 29 Aug 2014 : 19:29:26
Yea, it is kinda confusing but I'm getting something that works (either correctly reading between the lines or else fabricating it).
The North (The Wilderness, pg 58) says "the newly-rebuilt Stronghold of the Nine and additional outbuildings, now collectively becoming called Caerilcarn by the elves that occupy it."
Lost Empires (pg 91) identifies "The Caerilcarn, a group of elves that proclaims itself the vanguard of a new Eaerlann..."
That suggests to me that Caerilcarn is the name the elves are claiming, and for whatever reason they're calling their camp by the same name. I suspect they have their own name for their refurbishment of the Stronghold of the Nine, but they're just not using that name in conversation with outsiders. Since Caerilcarn translates as "Council of the Wood" (Lost Empires pg 94) it's easy to imagine a misunderstanding on the part of any non-elf. If visitors are allowed to live (perhaps a big "if") they're probably greeted with some form of "welcome to Caerilcarn" which could easily imply that it's their name for the physical place when in fact the elves are welcoming you to a metaphorical place; a council. In humanized layman's terms. Alternatively, the place where this council is taking shape (currently this particular fortress but it might be elsewhere later on) is Caerilcarn, and the elves participating are introducing themselves by the same name.
Still leaves the question of what the dwarves called their outpost before the Stronghold of the Nine was added on. And of course the original name of the Halls of the Hammer.
Also: it's pretty cool to have a thread rezzed by you Eric. Thankya. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 29 Aug 2014 : 17:42:15
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Or maybe I just haven't been paying attention. 
I see parenthetical names in a few places on the so-called interactive atlas, notably:
Hall of Four Ghosts (Caddarak) - the name of the surface dwarven town that once stood here
Stronghold of the Nine (Caerilcarn) - that name is used by a group of elves who want to recreate Eaerlann? - connection unclear
And no parentheses on the Halls of the Hammer 
A close reading of The North would suggest the dwarfhold known as the Stronghold of the Nine was called "Caerilcarn". However, looking how the word "Caerilcarn" is used in Lost Empires of Faerun, that clearly is not the name of the dwarfhold. It *might* be the name of the elven settlement, but I think that would be confusing. |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 28 May 2013 : 05:29:55
Or maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
I see parenthetical names in a few places on the so-called interactive atlas, notably:
Hall of Four Ghosts (Caddarak) - the name of the surface dwarven town that once stood here
Stronghold of the Nine (Caerilcarn) - that name is used by a group of elves who want to recreate Eaerlann? - connection unclear
And no parentheses on the Halls of the Hammer |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 27 May 2013 : 05:02:01
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hammer Hall is not the same place as the Halls of the Hammer
THO:
Thank you! But other than this first part, you're talking about the Stronghold of the Nine, right? On that subject, is the name of the hold you're describing blocked by NDA or just unknown/undecided? Orrr did the dwarves not name their outposts? |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 27 May 2013 : 01:21:45
Hammer Hall is not the same place as the Halls of the Hammer, and The Stronghold of the Nine began as a dwarven outpost, but acquired its name when the dwarves expanded it under contract to the famous human adventuring band known as the Nine (of Crown of Horns and Ed's ELMINSTER MUST DIE novel fame; Laeral was a member), to provide the Nine with a fortified underground home on the banks of the Unicorn Run.
The original dwarven outpost was "behind" (farther west, into the bedrock) from the newer complex created for the Nine, which was dug out as an expansion to the dwarves' original, hidden "back door escape route" passage to the riverbank.
There you go: instant Realmslore, drawn straight from Ed's notes. 
love,
THO
P.S. It was always an independent hold, but relied upon Earlann for non-food supplies, information/news, and social contact. The term "outpost" refers to these ties with Earlann and the fact that it was the dwarves settling in an area long sparse of their kind, and so extending their presence and influence into this part of the surface world AND the underlying Underdark. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 26 May 2013 : 20:08:34
Well the information on the Halls of the Hammer is pretty standard - its an abandoned dwarfhold that has been explored many times.
However when reading my information about the Hall of Four Ghosts it says.
"The dwarves built several fortresses to retreat to, for protection if attacked while working in the woods. Most are lost and overgrown, but those known to men include The Stronghold of the Nine and Hammer Hall."
Infer from that what you will. It could be that the fortresses were part of a well connected kingdom with tunnels linking the fortresses together across the north. Or it could be that these fortresses were independent holds that never united into a kingdom but relations were good enough that they allowed tunnels between the fortresses.
The only information I have on the Stronghold of the Nine is that it was a dwarven outpost, smithy, and armoury created by dwarven allies of Earlann.
The information could be interpreted as the outposts of a fledgling kingdom or independent holds. Whatever you would prefer I guess. |
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