| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Naeryndam |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 15:25:33
Admittedly, I have not finished the Sundering yet. However, something has bothered me about the whole Dark Elf thing. First of all (and I may be in the minority here) I actually LIKED the idea of reverting some Drow to Dark Elves. Id love to see racial stats and start a pc from Rhymanthiin or something. That being said though, if suddenly thousands of Drow turned into Dark Elves, wouldnt that be a major issue? I mean we're talking literally thousands of elves suddenly becoming blind in the underdark, political upheaval, possible attempts to kill them off or enslave them by other Drow etc. To my knowledge, this has never been covered. What are your thoughts on this? Would you like to see a series that has a Dark Elf protagonist and deals with the aftermath of that whole spell?
This thread is based on my understanding that all Drow of pure Mierytari descent reverted back, regardless of whether they actually were present at the casting or not. I believe that is what ms. Smedman wrote.
Thanks! |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 02:50:29
Thanks. I might have to get that one |
| Irennan |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 02:46:52
November 3rd: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/scag
It should contain something resembling an update of the Realms. I can't tell if it will be limited to the Sword Coast or not, because the book seems to be focused on the region, but the blurb hints to a wider picture. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 02:44:19
Do you know when the next one is coming out? As far as sourcebooks go, I am very selective in which ones I buy, because I don't play D&D much, so the ones that are mainly for adventure purposes I don't have any real use for heh (though I know plenty of others do). |
| Irennan |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 02:41:08
Very true. It feels good (really good, to me) to read that Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are alive, but they're really what makes the FR drow realmsian, they deserve more than just that. Lets keep fingers crossed for this upcoming sourcebook. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 02:30:04
I would love to see more stuff about them too, and they deserve more than just a little blurb or paragraph |
| Irennan |
Posted - 01 Aug 2015 : 20:29:05
quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana
quote:
Hello everyone! I'm Eric Menge, the secondary author for Menzoberranzan with Brian James. My apologies for not posting earlier, but I didn't have anything I was able to share until the book was published. No that it had, I hope you will take a look at it. The art is incredible and there are many great bits in the book including a Worth system which could be used to track how drow fall out of favor of Lolth and into favor of Eilistraee.
I was in charge of the Eilistraee portion of the book. I asked (begged might be a more accurate term) for that section, because I love the Dark Maiden and wanted her to have a prominent role in the book, since she has had such a prominent presence in the Forgotten Realms. As Brian said on the Candlekeep forum, the section that addressed Eilistraee and Vhaeraun heading into the future did not make the final cut. We worked very hard on it and fought as hard as we could to include it. Ultimately, the decision lay with the editors.
Since I'm not privy to WotC's future plans, it may be because they are bringing all the gods back through the Sundering. In addition, WotC is freeing the Forgotten Realms temporally. They will be supporting products in a variety of time periods. In most of those time periods, Eilistraee will still be alive and a power in the Realms, so you may see new lore that way.
While I cannot share the text of what I submitted to WotC, Irennan is pretty much spot on in our idea of how to keep consistent with the old lore while returning Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. The Masked Lady sacrificed her divinity and returned as an archfey -- actually two archfey. Vhaeraun and Eilistraee lost their names in the sacrifice and only had their ancestral titles of the Mask on the Moon and the Dancing Maiden. While the archfey cannot grant spells, PCs would directly interact with the spirits that were Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. They ruled from the Grotto of SIlver and Shadow (the map was included in the map pack), which has fallen into ruin in the centuries that they were gods. So drow servants of the Lord and Lady have two great tasks -- fight the oppression of Lolth while reclaiming a feydark realm from the wilderness and evil fey such as the fomorians. This gives judges two great campaigns - one based entirely in the feydark and dealing with other fey and one in the Underdark continuing the fight against Lolth and her minions.
While the archfey cannot grant spells, followers of the archfey would directly interact with the spirits that were once Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. Their followers would be far fewer than before, making every PC who serves the Lady and the Lord that much more important. Also, servants of Lolth are searching for the hidden Grotto and hunting the Lady and the Lord's followers constantly. Being a servant of the archfey would be a harrowing experience of a rebel, fighting overwhelming odds.
I second Brian's recommendation to let WotC know that you want Eilistraee content.If another people ask for it, they may publish the cut content as a DDI article. I still have all the text and could put it together into DDI format inside of a week.
I wrote up many of the art orders. The drow in the white dress is a follower of the Dancing Maiden. Brian and I do care about your little corner of the fanbase. Always have; always will.
Eric
Just thought this deserved to be posted here too.
Yeah, I made requests and letters to WotC customer support, but the material about archfey Eilistraee and Vhaeraun was disregarded.
Well, now Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are alive in 5e, post Sundering (Ed himself confirmed it here: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19841&whichpage=13#468322 . Also, Eilistraee is mentioned in ''Spellstorm'' as one of the deities with whom Mystra is currently sharing the Weave, and Vhaeraun has a chosen in ''the Adversary''), so we might see a continuation of that storyline. Maybe Eilistraee and Vhaeraun have been transformed too and will lead their followers in this new era, while still looking to free other drow from Lolth's grasp. Maybe Rymanthiin will become a reborn dark elven kingdom and a safe haven for drow turning from Lolth.
Either way, I really hope to see new stuff about them soon. Perhaps Sword Coast Adventurer's guide will clarify on what they and their followers are currently up to. |
| Duneth Despana |
Posted - 01 Aug 2015 : 20:06:30
quote:
Hello everyone! I'm Eric Menge, the secondary author for Menzoberranzan with Brian James. My apologies for not posting earlier, but I didn't have anything I was able to share until the book was published. No that it had, I hope you will take a look at it. The art is incredible and there are many great bits in the book including a Worth system which could be used to track how drow fall out of favor of Lolth and into favor of Eilistraee.
I was in charge of the Eilistraee portion of the book. I asked (begged might be a more accurate term) for that section, because I love the Dark Maiden and wanted her to have a prominent role in the book, since she has had such a prominent presence in the Forgotten Realms. As Brian said on the Candlekeep forum, the section that addressed Eilistraee and Vhaeraun heading into the future did not make the final cut. We worked very hard on it and fought as hard as we could to include it. Ultimately, the decision lay with the editors.
Since I'm not privy to WotC's future plans, it may be because they are bringing all the gods back through the Sundering. In addition, WotC is freeing the Forgotten Realms temporally. They will be supporting products in a variety of time periods. In most of those time periods, Eilistraee will still be alive and a power in the Realms, so you may see new lore that way.
While I cannot share the text of what I submitted to WotC, Irennan is pretty much spot on in our idea of how to keep consistent with the old lore while returning Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. The Masked Lady sacrificed her divinity and returned as an archfey -- actually two archfey. Vhaeraun and Eilistraee lost their names in the sacrifice and only had their ancestral titles of the Mask on the Moon and the Dancing Maiden. While the archfey cannot grant spells, PCs would directly interact with the spirits that were Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. They ruled from the Grotto of SIlver and Shadow (the map was included in the map pack), which has fallen into ruin in the centuries that they were gods. So drow servants of the Lord and Lady have two great tasks -- fight the oppression of Lolth while reclaiming a feydark realm from the wilderness and evil fey such as the fomorians. This gives judges two great campaigns - one based entirely in the feydark and dealing with other fey and one in the Underdark continuing the fight against Lolth and her minions.
While the archfey cannot grant spells, followers of the archfey would directly interact with the spirits that were once Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. Their followers would be far fewer than before, making every PC who serves the Lady and the Lord that much more important. Also, servants of Lolth are searching for the hidden Grotto and hunting the Lady and the Lord's followers constantly. Being a servant of the archfey would be a harrowing experience of a rebel, fighting overwhelming odds.
I second Brian's recommendation to let WotC know that you want Eilistraee content.If another people ask for it, they may publish the cut content as a DDI article. I still have all the text and could put it together into DDI format inside of a week.
I wrote up many of the art orders. The drow in the white dress is a follower of the Dancing Maiden. Brian and I do care about your little corner of the fanbase. Always have; always will.
Eric
Just thought this deserved to be posted here too. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 27 Aug 2014 : 02:18:41
I would like to see some sort of follow-up to LP, myself. |
| Zireael |
Posted - 26 Aug 2014 : 09:20:25
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
This scenario was explored in the Menzoberranzan sourcebook. Eric Menge and myself laid out the events that transpired in the city during the aftermath of Eilistraee's redemption of the dark elves. Alas it was cut in editing.
I too would really like to see Rhymanthiin explored in more detail. It stands to reason that many of the redeemed dark elves that survived would seek refuge there. As it's been over a hundred years since the Hidden City of Hope returned to Faerūn, I expect much the region of the High Moor around Rhymanthiin to be verdant forest and grassland once more. I really hope whoever is designing the 5E Realms map takes that in consideration.
That would have been great to see, and amen to changing the High Moor. |
| Naeryndam |
Posted - 10 Aug 2014 : 03:44:31
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
This scenario was explored in the Menzoberranzan sourcebook. Eric Menge and myself laid out the events that transpired in the city during the aftermath of Eilistraee's redemption of the dark elves. Alas it was cut in editing.
I too would really like to see Rhymanthiin explored in more detail. It stands to reason that many of the redeemed dark elves that survived would seek refuge there. As it's been over a hundred years since the Hidden City of Hope returned to Faerūn, I expect much the region of the High Moor around Rhymanthiin to be verdant forest and grassland once more. I really hope whoever is designing the 5E Realms map takes that in consideration.
Hmmm, so it was foreseen that the tree of souls should be planted somewhere where it snows in the evermeet book. The tree ended up planted in Myth Drannor (or thereabouts). Could it be that in the aftermath of the sundering, a high magic ritual is cast to displace the land surrounding the tree of souls to Rhymanthiin?
I thought the tree of souls was planted far to the north in a secret elven realm. Wasn't there something about araevin and lamruil going to save his wife there? Another story I wish someone would write... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Aug 2014 : 17:53:30
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
This scenario was explored in the Menzoberranzan sourcebook. Eric Menge and myself laid out the events that transpired in the city during the aftermath of Eilistraee's redemption of the dark elves. Alas it was cut in editing.
I too would really like to see Rhymanthiin explored in more detail. It stands to reason that many of the redeemed dark elves that survived would seek refuge there. As it's been over a hundred years since the Hidden City of Hope returned to Faerūn, I expect much the region of the High Moor around Rhymanthiin to be verdant forest and grassland once more. I really hope whoever is designing the 5E Realms map takes that in consideration.
Hmmm, so it was foreseen that the tree of souls should be planted somewhere where it snows in the evermeet book. The tree ended up planted in Myth Drannor (or thereabouts). Could it be that in the aftermath of the sundering, a high magic ritual is cast to displace the land surrounding the tree of souls to Rhymanthiin? |
| Irennan |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 19:48:10
quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
I agree and I understand where you're coming from. I doubt much will be done with the reborn dark elves myself.
My whole reason for bringing this up is that to me, the raising of Rhymanthiin is as huge as the return of Thultanthar and opens up all kinds of exciting possibilities. Shade got a bunch of books and source material, the new dark elves get virtually nothing. So here we have a reborn race, new magnificent hidden city and the return of exceptionally powerful mages 10's of thousands of years old and it seems like it is being treated as a footnote. Makes no sense to me. I was curious if anyone knew if this was going to be expanded upon.
That's probably because the Return of Shade RSE was actually finalized towards restoring it, while this RSE was written under explicit commission of getting rid of any variety among the drow and their pantheon.
Nonetheless, now the management of the FR has chanaged (AFAIK) and Ed's word has been given more weight, so maybe we'll see something in the 5e FRCG. |
| Naeryndam |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 19:42:23
I agree and I understand where you're coming from. I doubt much will be done with the reborn dark elves myself.
My whole reason for bringing this up is that to me, the raising of Rhymanthiin is as huge as the return of Thultanthar and opens up all kinds of exciting possibilities. Shade got a bunch of books and source material, the new dark elves get virtually nothing. So here we have a reborn race, new magnificent hidden city and the return of exceptionally powerful mages 10's of thousands of years old and it seems like it is being treated as a footnote. Makes no sense to me. I was curious if anyone knew if this was going to be expanded upon. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 19:23:33
quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
Ah I see, I misread no problem. Stupid job taking my concentration away from important things... That makes a lot more sense.
Yeah, while they are a quite narrow minority of drow, they can be a consistent number. Problem is -as Eilistraee's faith has no hierarchy or formal organization- their communities are scattered around, probably not even aware of each other, and probably not even aware of the returned Miyeritari city. Then, with the SpellPlague hitting, things went to hell.
Personally -as I said- I don't like this development, removing some curse was never Eilistraee's and her followers' goal, and the race change diminished what they stand for. But this could be turned into something cool. Gathered under the guidance of a returned Dark Maiden (or -following the idea that was removed from the Menzoberranzan book- the archfey Eilistraee and Vhaeraun), the dark elves could actually reforge a part of what Miyeritar was, while still continuing their fight for the freedom of the drow, but now with a ''safe heaven'' where the ones who manage to break free could establish and live. This would offer a more concrete alternative of life to the drow, and at the same time the dark elves could act as a ''bridge'' between the rest of their kin, which would be a huge step forward for their and their goddess' quest.
I don't believe that WotC would ever consider this tho (or doing anything with the dark elves at all tbh), we don't even know if they will bother to include the Dark Seldarine among the plethora of returned gods... |
| Naeryndam |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 19:04:48
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
Wow how did I forget that?
Very true, I was more talking about the political effects etc. I figure at this point there are probably still a ton of mierytari elves around. Could be wrong and it might be just a few, but I'd like to think it was around a quarter of the Drow population. Mierytar was no empire, but we're talking about an entire realm here.
Miyeritar was decimated with the Dark disaster. With Eilistraee weakened due to the death of so many of her followers (dark elves of Miyeritar were mainly her and Sehanine's followers AFAIK) and the descent applied upon them, the few survivors fled in the Underdark and, in >10000 years, their blood got mixed with Ilythiiri elves. So I really can't see many ''pure Miyeritari'' still around. Very few, likely.
The % of drow population worshiping Eilistraee and thus changed is -according to Ed- about 20, and mostly on the surface. The ''pure miyeritari'' and the ones in the Underdark, even with darkvision, probably were hunted and killed by other drow.
So you're saying there are basically only 30-50 actual dark elves in the realms right now? I'm trying to place an actual number on it, not argue. I'm not doubting you, if Ed said 20 it's 20, but doesn't that seem awfully few? We're talking about a reborn race here. Isn't there any way there are more dark elves around?
I meant 20%, sorry-
Ah I see, I misread no problem. Stupid job taking my concentration away from important things... That makes a lot more sense. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 19:01:50
quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
Wow how did I forget that?
Very true, I was more talking about the political effects etc. I figure at this point there are probably still a ton of mierytari elves around. Could be wrong and it might be just a few, but I'd like to think it was around a quarter of the Drow population. Mierytar was no empire, but we're talking about an entire realm here.
Miyeritar was decimated with the Dark disaster. With Eilistraee weakened due to the death of so many of her followers (dark elves of Miyeritar were mainly her and Sehanine's followers AFAIK) and the descent applied upon them, the few survivors fled in the Underdark and, in >10000 years, their blood got mixed with Ilythiiri elves. So I really can't see many ''pure Miyeritari'' still around. Very few, likely.
The % of drow population worshiping Eilistraee and thus changed is -according to Ed- about 20, and mostly on the surface. The ''pure miyeritari'' and the ones in the Underdark, even with darkvision, probably were hunted and killed by other drow.
So you're saying there are basically only 30-50 actual dark elves in the realms right now? I'm trying to place an actual number on it, not argue. I'm not doubting you, if Ed said 20 it's 20, but doesn't that seem awfully few? We're talking about a reborn race here. Isn't there any way there are more dark elves around?
I meant 20%, sorry- |
| Naeryndam |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 19:00:33
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
Wow how did I forget that?
Very true, I was more talking about the political effects etc. I figure at this point there are probably still a ton of mierytari elves around. Could be wrong and it might be just a few, but I'd like to think it was around a quarter of the Drow population. Mierytar was no empire, but we're talking about an entire realm here.
Miyeritar was decimated with the Dark disaster. With Eilistraee weakened due to the death of so many of her followers (dark elves of Miyeritar were mainly her and Sehanine's followers AFAIK) and the descent applied upon them, the few survivors fled in the Underdark and, in >10000 years, their blood got mixed with Ilythiiri elves. So I really can't see many ''pure Miyeritari'' still around. Very few, likely.
The % of drow population worshiping Eilistraee and thus changed is -according to Ed- about 20, and mostly on the surface. The ''pure miyeritari'' and the ones in the Underdark, even with darkvision, probably were hunted and killed by other drow.
So you're saying there are basically only 30-50 actual dark elves in the realms right now? I'm trying to place an actual number on it, not argue. I'm not doubting you, if Ed said 20 it's 20, but doesn't that seem awfully few? We're talking about a reborn race here. Isn't there any way there are more dark elves around? |
| Irennan |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 18:50:39
quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
Wow how did I forget that?
Very true, I was more talking about the political effects etc. I figure at this point there are probably still a ton of mierytari elves around. Could be wrong and it might be just a few, but I'd like to think it was around a quarter of the Drow population. Mierytar was no empire, but we're talking about an entire realm here.
Miyeritar was decimated with the Dark disaster. With Eilistraee weakened due to the death of so many of her followers (dark elves of Miyeritar were mainly her and Sehanine's followers AFAIK) and the descent applied upon them, the few survivors fled in the Underdark and, in >10000 years, their blood got mixed with Ilythiiri elves. So I really can't see many ''pure Miyeritari'' still around. Very few, likely.
The % of drow population worshiping Eilistraee and thus changed is -according to Ed- about 20, and mostly on the surface. The ''pure miyeritari'' and the ones in the Underdark, even with darkvision, probably were hunted and killed by other drow.
quote:
You know, now that I think about it, if the Sharn counted among them great mages from the Crown Wars and ancient civilizations such as Netheril, Earlann etc, Rhymanthiin would probably contain the oldest and most powerful mages in the realms. A grand Mage of Mierytar would be able to trump Telamont or Larloch. How has this place not gotten more attention?
It's just like so many other RSE. They throw in big BOOMS and then no long term consequences. Mainly because they were done for shock value or as deus ex machina to implement design choices (like removing Eilistraee from the setting).
|
| Naeryndam |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 18:35:06
You know, now that I think about it, if the Sharn counted among them great mages from the Crown Wars and ancient civilizations such as Netheril, Earlann etc, Rhymanthiin would probably contain the oldest and most powerful mages in the realms. A grand Mage of Mierytar would be able to trump Telamont or Larloch. How has this place not gotten more attention? |
| Naeryndam |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 17:39:49
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Just a random fact to point out. In the Basic 5e pdf, elves have 60' Darkvision. Unless I've missed some errata, mechanically speaking, suddenly becoming blind won't be a problem for elves. Drow have a longer range on their Darkvision in 5e, if I remember correctly.
Wow how did I forget that?
Very true, I was more talking about the political effects etc. I figure at this point there are probably still a ton of mierytari elves around. Could be wrong and it might be just a few, but I'd like to think it was around a quarter of the Drow population. Mierytar was no empire, but we're talking about an entire realm here. |
| Delwa |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 16:38:07
Just a random fact to point out. In the Basic 5e pdf, elves have 60' Darkvision. Unless I've missed some errata, mechanically speaking, suddenly becoming blind won't be a problem for elves. Drow have a longer range on their Darkvision in 5e, if I remember correctly. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 16:08:54
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
This scenario was explored in the Menzoberranzan sourcebook. Eric Menge and myself laid out the events that transpired in the city during the aftermath of Eilistraee's redemption of the dark elves. Alas it was cut in editing.
I too would really like to see Rhymanthiin explored in more detail. It stands to reason that many of the redeemed dark elves that survived would seek refuge there. As it's been over a hundred years since the Hidden City of Hope returned to Faerūn, I expect much the region of the High Moor around Rhymanthiin to be verdant forest and grassland once more. I really hope whoever is designing the 5E Realms map takes that in consideration.
Yeah, it was such a cool development and such a waste to throw it away. I was happy with Eilistraee and Vhaeraun sacrificing their divinity, lifting the descent from their followers and then working together with them to free the rest of the drow.
The way it happened in LP didn't make sense for Eilistraee's goal and character, as she -by ''sacrificing''- basically gave up and abandoned the vast majority of the drow (about 80%), just to give her followers something that they didn't need (maybe even want) and that ultimately was a luxury. That development would have fixed this problem. I truly hope that it gets included in 5e.
Either way, I think that the changed drow were mostly on the surface, the ''pure Miyeritari'' who didn't follow Eilistraee or Vhaeraun and were changed in the Underdark were probably few and likely died because of it. |
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 15:50:19
This scenario was explored in the Menzoberranzan sourcebook. Eric Menge and myself laid out the events that transpired in the city during the aftermath of Eilistraee's redemption of the dark elves. Alas it was cut in editing.
I too would really like to see Rhymanthiin explored in more detail. It stands to reason that many of the redeemed dark elves that survived would seek refuge there. As it's been over a hundred years since the Hidden City of Hope returned to Faerūn, I expect much the region of the High Moor around Rhymanthiin to be verdant forest and grassland once more. I really hope whoever is designing the 5E Realms map takes that in consideration. |
|
|
