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 Is Larloch a DemiGod now?

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silverwolfer Posted - 23 Jul 2014 : 05:48:45
Yeah spoilders,, blah blah blah..


He drained candlekeep ,was denied the mythral, where does this put him as far as power goes, and ranking?
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Nicolai Withander Posted - 27 Jul 2014 : 13:45:55
When it comes to Larloch, Srinshee and the rest of the über archmages out there, who are all beyond mortal intelligence, I think its safe to assume that they all have backup plans and contingenceis that take effect when ever...

Srinshee being ca 4300 years old is robably the most knowledgable of the art and I refuse to belive she is realy dead and gone for good. The same goes for Larloch. He have had time to prepare for soany situations that I find it hard to believe that his "failure" was not at least part of the plan. And BTW someting a negative result is just as important as a succesful one.

The Arcanamach Posted - 27 Jul 2014 : 07:17:37
The fact that El doesn't show up and 'deal with' the baddies has been covered in the novels. Simply put, Mystra doesn't want him to. She has her own plans in motion and El is there to assist her with them...not police all of Faerun unless 1) she tells him to or 2) on those rare occasions that he goes his own way and handles something (which Mystra wants him to do at times as stated in El the Making of a Mage).

El is a meddler who tries to steer things towards 'good' ends...if he showed up on every ebil mages' doorstep and stomped them into the ground he'd be no better than they are (at least that's how El sees it). He also wouldn't really be a true believer in Mystra's work (spreading magic). Her (and thus his) goal is to spread the use of magic. Slaying evil mages would not only stop them from developing magic, but also give less reason for goodly wizards to create magic to curtail them.

Stopping Telamont (and really it was Shar that was being dealt with moreso than Telly) was needful...thus El stomped him. Shade needed to be stopped and their end goal (as a result of devotion to Shar) was the destruction of magic (at least from the point of view of a devoted follower of Mystra).
sleyvas Posted - 27 Jul 2014 : 01:28:05
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten

quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus

From the herald-

“For a long time I contented myself with studying the Art, taking it further than any one entity had done before,” he purred, “and letting Toril attend to itself. I cared for no realm nor ruler nor cabal, and was content to be left alone. And the world grew no better, and petty tyrants meddled ever more recklessly with magic, from the dupes of Shar to those fools in Zhentil Keep and Thay, and now these arrogant returned bumblers of Thultanthar. It is time, and long past time, to intervene. Not to rule the high and the low, trying to make laws and enforce them in matters ever so petty— but to slap down the worst parasites and vandals, and let commoners and oxen alike breathe once more! A city should have a ruler pitted against guilds and street gangs and the wealthiest families— but above that, there should be no one but the gods, and their priesthoods lockedever in opposition. Let there be an end to kings. Let there be only … Larloch.”

Seems that big L is content to exist as he is, somewhere between god and mortal.

Yay! 400 posts



The comment about Thay makes me wonder why Larloch did not intervene with Szass Tam. And if you'll remember, there was a comment (from Shar to Telamont) that Elminster has meddled in every major affair on Faerun for the last 400 years, with the SOLE EXCEPTION of Szass Tam taking over Thay. That made 2 things immediately come to mind:

1) That's why a lot of people find Elminster annoying. If he's played a part in taking down every villain for 400 years, that's just too much. To be realistic, every RSE will have to do what ROTA did and create an explanation for why Elminster doesn't simply come destroy the villain himself.

2) Why is Szass Tam the sole exception? Is there any particular reason that Elminster won't come smack Tam down the way he did to Telamont? For that matter, if Larloch wants to take over the Weave, why not just go kill Tam and take all the Chosen he has collected, then attain godhood and absorb the Weave? Or take Tam's Unmaking ritual and use it himself?




Who says Tam isn't doing exactly what Larloch wanted? After all, Larloch gave Tam the cursed magic item which has effectively turned him crazy and power mad.
sleyvas Posted - 27 Jul 2014 : 01:20:10
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

If it was that easy to become a god, he would have done it years ago.

-- George Krashos

Agreed.

And, besides, from what Ed has told us in the past about Larloch's ambitions... I'd very much assume that the great mage could very well have found some other "avenues" toward amassing great almost-deity-level power.



Also, the one thing I don't see many people think about is "how" does being a god affect your advancement. For instance, if you "take on the god mantle feat", does all of your XP all of a sudden only go into leveling your "godness". This could be very disastrous for someone who wanted to grow their "personal and not linked to their divinity" level of power, as they suddenly become a god and get assaulted by other gods. Now, they're spending all their earned xp on maintaining their divinity.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 27 Jul 2014 : 00:31:10
Two possibilities immediately come to mind:

1) Shar was mistaken or exaggerating... It's possible Elminster did interfere in some subtle way, and she just didn't see it. It's also possible that Elminster hasn't been interfering as much as Shar said, and that she was either exaggerating because that's what it seems like, or because she wanted Telly to think Elminster had more involvement than he really had.

2) The other possibility is that Elminster had a specific reason for holding back. Perhaps he knew of a third party that was going to interfere, or perhaps he knew what Szassy was doing and why it would ultimately fail.
Lilianviaten Posted - 26 Jul 2014 : 23:38:16
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus

From the herald-

“For a long time I contented myself with studying the Art, taking it further than any one entity had done before,” he purred, “and letting Toril attend to itself. I cared for no realm nor ruler nor cabal, and was content to be left alone. And the world grew no better, and petty tyrants meddled ever more recklessly with magic, from the dupes of Shar to those fools in Zhentil Keep and Thay, and now these arrogant returned bumblers of Thultanthar. It is time, and long past time, to intervene. Not to rule the high and the low, trying to make laws and enforce them in matters ever so petty— but to slap down the worst parasites and vandals, and let commoners and oxen alike breathe once more! A city should have a ruler pitted against guilds and street gangs and the wealthiest families— but above that, there should be no one but the gods, and their priesthoods lockedever in opposition. Let there be an end to kings. Let there be only … Larloch.”

Seems that big L is content to exist as he is, somewhere between god and mortal.

Yay! 400 posts



The comment about Thay makes me wonder why Larloch did not intervene with Szass Tam. And if you'll remember, there was a comment (from Shar to Telamont) that Elminster has meddled in every major affair on Faerun for the last 400 years, with the SOLE EXCEPTION of Szass Tam taking over Thay. That made 2 things immediately come to mind:

1) That's why a lot of people find Elminster annoying. If he's played a part in taking down every villain for 400 years, that's just too much. To be realistic, every RSE will have to do what ROTA did and create an explanation for why Elminster doesn't simply come destroy the villain himself.

2) Why is Szass Tam the sole exception? Is there any particular reason that Elminster won't come smack Tam down the way he did to Telamont? For that matter, if Larloch wants to take over the Weave, why not just go kill Tam and take all the Chosen he has collected, then attain godhood and absorb the Weave? Or take Tam's Unmaking ritual and use it himself?
Lilianviaten Posted - 26 Jul 2014 : 21:21:37
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer

While I love the conversation, I would like to repoint out what I posted.


That even Shar admitted that the wards of candlekeep were enough to make him into a local demi-god.



Which is a good point, and one I had forgotten. However, Shar has also shown that she doesn't understand a whole lot about magic. She thought she could keep the Shadow Weave and take over the Weave when Cyric killed Mystra. She ended up with nothing, and had no clue why.

Within the book, Shar was shocked when Telamont explained Larloch's plan to her (absorbing the wards of Candlekeep, and then using that power to absorb Myth Drannor's mythal). It had never occurred to her that this could be done, which was a rather poor showing for the Goddess of Secrets.

Shar was also unprepared for the Srinshee and the Chosen using the Weave to pull down the flying enclave, and she was unaware of the process they were using to strengthen the Weave. My confidence in Shar's knowledge of anything magical is shaky.
Firestorm Posted - 26 Jul 2014 : 02:30:06
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten

quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Indeed, I'd say he could best any lesser deity in open combat (with the help of artifacts). I'm not saying he could actually SLAY just any lesser deity, just that he could best them.

I think he's had the means of ascension for some time and has chosen not to do it. He just decided the opportunity presented in the Herald was too good to pass up. I'm also not convinced he actually 'failed' at anything. Larloch is a 'wheels within wheels' sort of genius. What if he faked trying to become a god and 'failed' on purpose to throw the Chosen off his TRUE plans? I've said this in another thread, I think he set Tam up to fail (because his long game is MUCH longer than most) with his still being none the wiser about it.

I will say that I think El is smart enough to know that Larloch didn't actually fail but succeeded at whatever he was trying to REALLY do.



As far as setting Tam up to fail, I agree with that. It is curious how that ancient ritual mysteriously turned up. But in terms of besting any deity in combat, I would sorely doubt it. Did you read the Twilight War books? Kesson Rel was a demigod, and he was a BEAST. I would give Larloch a good chance against him, but he can't best anything above a demigod. There's no reason to think any wizard could.

I too, would like it if Larloch's seemingly uncharacteristic blunder was some "plot within a plot", but that's unlikely. I think his failure was a real thing.


Yeah Kesson was a beast. However, Larloch showed up at Telamont's ritual and literally wiped the entire enclave of Arcanists into learning how to retie their shoes and barking at the sky. Except Telamont, who he left sane just to freaking taunt him lol.

1 Archlich being able to demolish a city full of arcanists like Shade in seconds is pretty badass.
Portella Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 22:02:24
but what if you didnt need to use weave power. after all if the energy is stored somewhere else... something that wasnt taken... endless possibilities
Arcanus Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 21:59:29
quote:
Originally posted by Portella

plus he is infused with the power of a dead deity MYSTRYL!! RAW power of the old days when casting spell of level 12+ was a possibility!




Makes no odds, after karsus's folly the weave was changed for all mortals that prevents casting such powerful spells.
Portella Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 21:55:04
what if he has contingencies or other ways to use that heavy magic perhaps still stored with in him or some items.. raw goodness
Portella Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 21:53:17
plus he is infused with the power of a dead deity MYSTRYL!! RAW power of the old days when casting spell of level 12+ was a possibility!
The Arcanamach Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 21:33:06
I prefer deities remain statless. Only demigods should be in the realm of possibility for PCs to facedown so maybe they could receive stats but I think it should be the DMs role to stat the gods.

Do you think Larloch wouldn't have a way around antimagic? Just about every Mary Sue in the Realms has demonstrated a way of getting around it. And Larloch, with his command of the Weave would certainly be able to circumvent it.
Mirtek Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 21:13:00
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Example: Looking at the stats for Eilistraee and Malar in the 3e Faiths and Pantheons, I have a very hard time believing that a prepared Larloch (who would NEVER fight a deity unprepared) could be defeated by either of them.
In 3.x it's very easy. Deity cast anti magic field on herself, she ignores it while Larloch is screwed.

2e a deity is simply beyond game stats, so the battle if over before it even started.

Now it remains to be seen how 5e is going to handle deities (and Larloch)
Arcanus Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 12:40:27
From the herald-

“For a long time I contented myself with studying the Art, taking it further than any one entity had done before,” he purred, “and letting Toril attend to itself. I cared for no realm nor ruler nor cabal, and was content to be left alone. And the world grew no better, and petty tyrants meddled ever more recklessly with magic, from the dupes of Shar to those fools in Zhentil Keep and Thay, and now these arrogant returned bumblers of Thultanthar. It is time, and long past time, to intervene. Not to rule the high and the low, trying to make laws and enforce them in matters ever so petty— but to slap down the worst parasites and vandals, and let commoners and oxen alike breathe once more! A city should have a ruler pitted against guilds and street gangs and the wealthiest families— but above that, there should be no one but the gods, and their priesthoods lockedever in opposition. Let there be an end to kings. Let there be only … Larloch.”

Seems that big L is content to exist as he is, somewhere between god and mortal.

Yay! 400 posts
LordofBones Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 12:20:22
From a stats viewpoint, Telamont would murder Elminster. What we got was the opposite. That's mostly because of plot power, gameplay-wise battles between epic wizards comes down to Celerity/Gate/save-or-suck shenanigans/epic spells.

To be honest, from a statistics viewpoint, there are far more powerful pure caster villains. Rhangaun, Kartak Spellseer, Larloch, Shoon VII and Telamont, to name a few. Someone once mentioned that Ed's unofficial stats for her were Wiz29/Sorc 16/Archmage 9...which means Larloch still flattens her with his 46th level arcane casting.
The Arcanamach Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 09:56:07
@Lilianviaten: I'm coming from a strictly game rules perspective on Larloch's ability to BEST (not necessarily slay) a Lesser deity. What's written in novels is an entirely different matter (but I will read them just to see what you're talking about).

Example: Looking at the stats for Eilistraee and Malar in the 3e Faiths and Pantheons, I have a very hard time believing that a prepared Larloch (who would NEVER fight a deity unprepared) could be defeated by either of them. Larloch is one of the few archmages approaching 40th-level and is older than many deities. Further, I don't think he'd be pulled into a fight with such a deity unless he'd orchestrated it himself. Now, if he were somehow forced into the fight he might be defeated (assuming that such an enterprising deity ensured that Larloch had already expended much of his power).

I see Larloch as being more powerful than El, and look at what he did to Telamont (and how easily). The Srinshee, I believe, was the only other non-diety capable of besting Larloch...and he was only defeated because he didn't account for her actions...or did he? (I find it difficult that he wouldn't account for such a powerful chess piece...which is why I don't think his 'defeat' was quite as bad as it seemed at the time...I think he got exactly what he wanted...whatever he failed at was secondary I think).
The Arcanamach Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 09:42:22
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

If it was that easy to become a god, he would have done it years ago.

-- George Krashos
Agreed.

And, besides, from what Ed has told us in the past about Larloch's ambitions... I'd very much assume that the great mage could very well have found some other "avenues" toward amassing great almost-deity-level power.

There's nothing saying that Larloch wants to become a god. He may have had the means...in fact I'm certain he has had the means for centuries...but that doesn't mean he wanted to do it. Doing so places him under the thumb of Ao and brings on headaches he may not have wanted.

Further, I'm not convinced that his purpose in the Herald was to actually become a god. He wanted to amass power certainly but it does not necessarily follow that his end goal was divinity.

But for the sake of argument let's say he was planning on becoming the new deity of magic. If that's the case then I have to believe that even that goal would only be a means to an end. Mayhap I'm putting him on a pedestal, but I much prefer that everything he does only SEEM to be what he's doing (there's always something else behind his actions). I simply don't think his goal as stated in the Herald was that cut and dry.

Remember, in an interview Ed was very clear that he wanted us (the readers) to realize that even the greatest Mary Sue's could be fooled. Who says Larlock wasn't still fooling the Chosen? At the very least, I'd say he had some contingency plan in place just in case he failed. And for the record, I do believe he (largely) failed due to the Srinshee's actions...but I'm willing to bet there's more to his actions than were overtly stated in the Herald.
silverwolfer Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 08:11:05
While I love the conversation, I would like to repoint out what I posted.


That even Shar admitted that the wards of candlekeep were enough to make him into a local demi-god.
Lilianviaten Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 06:21:09
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

quote:
As far as setting Tam up to fail, I agree with that. It is curious how that ancient ritual mysteriously turned up. But in terms of besting any deity in combat, I would sorely doubt it. Did you read the Twilight War books? Kesson Rel was a demigod, and he was a BEAST. I would give Larloch a good chance against him, but he can't best anything above a demigod. There's no reason to think any wizard could.

Have to disagree somewhat here. He may have been portrayed as a beast in the novel but you have to take into account several things:
1. Uncertain narrator almost always applies.
2. His portrayal in the book is relative to other characters he's up against (he's a beast vs. A but a kitten vs. B sort of thing). I admit I haven't read those books though so I can't really speak to this point.
3. Larloch is terribly ancient and by all accounts has been steadily amassing knowledge and power more or less non-stop the entire time.
4. As an addendum to #3 is that I'm going by certain comments from Ed (and many scribes here at the Keep) about his power.
5. I believe Larloch's greatest 'ace' is that no one really knows what in the Nine Hells he's really doing.
6. He now has added power from CK and some from Myth Drannor which gives him a good damn boost.
7. Just to clarify...I said any LESSER deity (in game terms) in open battle and also that he could BEST them not necessarily slay.



I understand what you're saying, but all we had to go on for years was speculation. Now we've had Larloch featured in a recent novel, and nothing about his power level indicates that he contains near the power of a lesser deity. The wards of Candlekeep wouldn't even be a power boost for a lesser deity, so they would be useless for him to absorb if he was already that powerful. And the Srinshee, mighty though she is in the Art, could not have so badly wounded someone of even demigod status.

Power levels will always be somewhat vaguely defined, because strictly defined levels make for limited storytelling. But Ed gave us an idea of Larloch's power level, and he has no feats to consider him anything more than demigod level.

You really should read the Twilight War books. Paul Kemp is a fine writer, so I think you would enjoy them to some degree (though he's admittedly too dark and gritty for some people). More to the point, Kesson Rel was a demigod (divine rank 0). It took a LOT to put him down. To be precise, Shar's Chosen + Mask's 2 most powerful Chosen + a powerful psion controlling a sentient mythallar + a small army of Lathanderites channeling their god's power collectively against him.

My personal belief is that Larloch could lay the smack down on a demigod within Warlock's Crypt. Off his home turf, he probably gets some good licks in, but ends up having to rely on his contingencies to escape. A lesser god is out of the question. Also, I'm not convinced that Larloch still has possession of the power he took from Candlekeep and Myth Drannor. The Srinshee's interruption of his drain may have ruined his ability to retain any of it.
The Sage Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 03:48:09
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

If it was that easy to become a god, he would have done it years ago.

-- George Krashos

Agreed.

And, besides, from what Ed has told us in the past about Larloch's ambitions... I'd very much assume that the great mage could very well have found some other "avenues" toward amassing great almost-deity-level power.
jordanz Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 02:35:02
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Szass Tam is quickly becoming overdone, and Larloch has no interest in godhood, it would limit him too much.

I say just bring back Velsharoon. He, Azuth and Savras are vastly more interesting than Mystra and her Chosen. I mean, the plots and conflicts that could arise between all the gods of magic would be a blast to uncover, instead of Mystra's Men and the Token Evil Teammate.

Perhaps Savras is bitter about his imprisonment and has a lingering resentment that he's forced to serve his old rival. Perhaps Velsharoon's dislike of Mystra stems from the fact that the current Mystra started off as a mewling slip of a girl while he and other more qualified, experienced mages were overlooked. Perhaps there are members of the Azuthan and Mystran churches who balk at the idea of worshipping the current Mystra and instead transfer their allegiance to Savras and Velsharoon. Maybe the aftereffects of Mystra's multiple deaths convince AO that having so much power invested in one deity is potentially catastrophic, and he splits dominion over the Weave between Azuth, Savras and Velsharoon; with Azuth seeking to revive Mystra, Savras being on the fence and Velsharoon opposing the resurrection of Midnight.


I though for sure Elminster was going to replace Azuth...

I thought Larloch had the power of a Demi GOd even before the Candlekeep stunt, but that doesn't mean he IS one. No way could he best or even survive a lesser god. We need to discuss Elminster because they way he handled tanthal was "demi god" like.
sleyvas Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 02:32:24
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Myrkul never had Velsharoon's portfolios. In fact, Myrkul taking Velsharoon's place would be a step down for Old Lord Skull.

I much prefer the idea of Myrkul being Velsharoon's boss; unlike Talos he has no history of consuming demigods and unlike Mystra he's fond of necromancy and undeath.



I'll agree here in that too many equate Myrkul and Velsharoon. The two were different portfolios. Myrkul was lord of the dead, but not the undead (granted, he dealt with undead). Velsharoon is a lord of necromantic magic. To me, the difference is kind of like comparing Azuth and Talos (and yes, I know Talos tried to take over wild and destructive magic as Malyk)... or comparing Leira and Shar.

I prefer Myrkul stay in his crown and be usable as an NPC item. However, were they to try to bring him back, perhaps a good way would be to actually attempt some kind of intermixing of deities via a ritual (i.e. maybe Mellifleur, Velsharoon, AND Myrkul become something akin to a tri-partite lord of the dead with each "aspect" vying for control.... it could even be some kind of curse of madness inflicted my Cyric).
LordofBones Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 16:59:00
Myrkul never had Velsharoon's portfolios. In fact, Myrkul taking Velsharoon's place would be a step down for Old Lord Skull.

I much prefer the idea of Myrkul being Velsharoon's boss; unlike Talos he has no history of consuming demigods and unlike Mystra he's fond of necromancy and undeath.
ZeshinX Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 16:44:31
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Szass Tam is quickly becoming overdone, and Larloch has no interest in godhood, it would limit him too much.

I say just bring back Velsharoon. He, Azuth and Savras are vastly more interesting than Mystra and her Chosen. I mean, the plots and conflicts that could arise between all the gods of magic would be a blast to uncover, instead of Mystra's Men and the Token Evil Teammate.

Perhaps Savras is bitter about his imprisonment and has a lingering resentment that he's forced to serve his old rival. Perhaps Velsharoon's dislike of Mystra stems from the fact that the current Mystra started off as a mewling slip of a girl while he and other more qualified, experienced mages were overlooked. Perhaps there are members of the Azuthan and Mystran churches who balk at the idea of worshipping the current Mystra and instead transfer their allegiance to Savras and Velsharoon. Maybe the aftereffects of Mystra's multiple deaths convince AO that having so much power invested in one deity is potentially catastrophic, and he splits dominion over the Weave between Azuth, Savras and Velsharoon; with Azuth seeking to revive Mystra, Savras being on the fence and Velsharoon opposing the resurrection of Midnight.



Bring Myrkul back in place of Velsharoon.
The Arcanamach Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 15:17:39
quote:
As far as setting Tam up to fail, I agree with that. It is curious how that ancient ritual mysteriously turned up. But in terms of besting any deity in combat, I would sorely doubt it. Did you read the Twilight War books? Kesson Rel was a demigod, and he was a BEAST. I would give Larloch a good chance against him, but he can't best anything above a demigod. There's no reason to think any wizard could.

Have to disagree somewhat here. He may have been portrayed as a beast in the novel but you have to take into account several things:
1. Uncertain narrator almost always applies.
2. His portrayal in the book is relative to other characters he's up against (he's a beast vs. A but a kitten vs. B sort of thing). I admit I haven't read those books though so I can't really speak to this point.
3. Larloch is terribly ancient and by all accounts has been steadily amassing knowledge and power more or less non-stop the entire time.
4. As an addendum to #3 is that I'm going by certain comments from Ed (and many scribes here at the Keep) about his power.
5. I believe Larloch's greatest 'ace' is that no one really knows what in the Nine Hells he's really doing.
6. He now has added power from CK and some from Myth Drannor which gives him a good damn boost.
7. Just to clarify...I said any LESSER deity (in game terms) in open battle and also that he could BEST them not necessarily slay.
LordofBones Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 14:44:05
Szass Tam is quickly becoming overdone, and Larloch has no interest in godhood, it would limit him too much.

I say just bring back Velsharoon. He, Azuth and Savras are vastly more interesting than Mystra and her Chosen. I mean, the plots and conflicts that could arise between all the gods of magic would be a blast to uncover, instead of Mystra's Men and the Token Evil Teammate.

Perhaps Savras is bitter about his imprisonment and has a lingering resentment that he's forced to serve his old rival. Perhaps Velsharoon's dislike of Mystra stems from the fact that the current Mystra started off as a mewling slip of a girl while he and other more qualified, experienced mages were overlooked. Perhaps there are members of the Azuthan and Mystran churches who balk at the idea of worshipping the current Mystra and instead transfer their allegiance to Savras and Velsharoon. Maybe the aftereffects of Mystra's multiple deaths convince AO that having so much power invested in one deity is potentially catastrophic, and he splits dominion over the Weave between Azuth, Savras and Velsharoon; with Azuth seeking to revive Mystra, Savras being on the fence and Velsharoon opposing the resurrection of Midnight.
Lilianviaten Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 12:46:12
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer

I would like to remind folks, even Shar was quoted as saying that, the wards of candlekeep had enough power in them, to even make a toad or pixie into a demi-god.....in chapter 15 of the hearld.


Now not a significant or overly powerful being, unlike our favorite demon lord, he doesn't have divine spark, but rather just a whole bunch of power.


I think Larloch could count as a primoridal now, and with all the undead he commands, slowly take over Vel's position has he has been absent for so long, and we still don't see in any of these books Azuth coming back too being a thing.



Azuth is definitely going to be brought back, but the Sundering novels only had enough time to focus on the major gods coming back (Mask, Helm, slight mention of Vhaeraun). But Erin Evans has definitely been setting Asmodeus up for a fall.

If anyone is taking Velsharoon's place, it would be Tam. The Haunted Lands trilogy, the Sundering novels, and the latest adventures in Thay all deal with his attempts to reach godhood. Larloch only wanted to take Mystra's place, because he essentially worships magic anyway. I don't think the portfolio of any other god (save perhaps Azuth) would interest him.
silverwolfer Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 07:08:20
I would like to remind folks, even Shar was quoted as saying that, the wards of candlekeep had enough power in them, to even make a toad or pixie into a demi-god.....in chapter 15 of the hearld.


Now not a significant or overly powerful being, unlike our favorite demon lord, he doesn't have divine spark, but rather just a whole bunch of power.


I think Larloch could count as a primoridal now, and with all the undead he commands, slowly take over Vel's position has he has been absent for so long, and we still don't see in any of these books Azuth coming back too being a thing.
Lilianviaten Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 04:48:38
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Indeed, I'd say he could best any lesser deity in open combat (with the help of artifacts). I'm not saying he could actually SLAY just any lesser deity, just that he could best them.

I think he's had the means of ascension for some time and has chosen not to do it. He just decided the opportunity presented in the Herald was too good to pass up. I'm also not convinced he actually 'failed' at anything. Larloch is a 'wheels within wheels' sort of genius. What if he faked trying to become a god and 'failed' on purpose to throw the Chosen off his TRUE plans? I've said this in another thread, I think he set Tam up to fail (because his long game is MUCH longer than most) with his still being none the wiser about it.

I will say that I think El is smart enough to know that Larloch didn't actually fail but succeeded at whatever he was trying to REALLY do.



As far as setting Tam up to fail, I agree with that. It is curious how that ancient ritual mysteriously turned up. But in terms of besting any deity in combat, I would sorely doubt it. Did you read the Twilight War books? Kesson Rel was a demigod, and he was a BEAST. I would give Larloch a good chance against him, but he can't best anything above a demigod. There's no reason to think any wizard could.

I too, would like it if Larloch's seemingly uncharacteristic blunder was some "plot within a plot", but that's unlikely. I think his failure was a real thing.

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