| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Razz |
Posted - 11 May 2014 : 19:19:15
Well I have not been keeping up with the Realms for months and I am wondering exactly what it is that is going on?
Is there a central site I can go to that sums up everything we know about what is going on with The Sundering? Like a "Cliff Notes" version of it as opposed to me reading all the novels and the game material? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kilvain |
Posted - 31 May 2014 : 05:10:59
Overall I think the product has good value, particularly for those who want an adventure filled with political intrigue and no clear lines drawn between good and evil characters. I can see it being an adventure that might test a group of paladins, who would likely find themselves eventually facing off against every faction. If you want hack n slash though, I'm fairly sure this wouldn't be a good choice.
Also, in reference to the computer game again, Murder in Baldur's Gate would make a pretty terrible basis for Baldur's Gate 3 (assuming such a product were ever made). The BG series had a storyline, but it was primarily about combat. Most computer games are, with exceptions like Planescape.
I'd also like to know what happened with Viekang over the years. How did he go from a scared little mouse who involuntarily teleported away at the first sign of another Bhaalspawn to becoming the angry attacker we see in this adventure? Bhaal essence really messes with your head apparently. And Imoen's fate is also a mystery. If the end of the game is invalidated then what happened to her? Perhaps she died in the novelizations. I never read the second book. |
| Zireael |
Posted - 30 May 2014 : 20:09:51
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvain
In regard to Murder in Baldur's Gate my take on it is that while they did make use of some of the game's characters (Viekang, Coran, Minsc) there is a brief section which seems to nullify the events at the end of the final installment of the game series.
From the Murder in Baldur's Gate Campaign Guide:
quote:
Few know of Bhaal's plan in these events. Among those who do, many believe that the plot collapsed forever when Adrian slew Bhaal's last high priestess and denied acceptance of the accumulated power of Bhaal, instead choosing for himself a mortal life. Those who believe that fable are fools.
The Lord of Murder is in darkness, but he waits only for two victims - the last victims - to reclaim his throne of blood.
It's kind of amusing in a way that they used Viekang, a character seen only in the game, as a plot device to bring the conclusion of the Bhaalspawn saga into the modern Realms while at the same time declaring the events of the game mere fable. Of course, the game had two potential outcomes so if one of them had to be fable I guess it's not a stretch to assume both are fable.
Coran's inclusion in Murder in Baldur's Gate makes sense in that he's one of the few characters with a life long enough to still be around and have a direct connection to the city. I'm not sure about the statue of Minsc and Boo though. I guess being one of the more popular characters from the game is reason enough to write him in. If they were going to use him though they could have at least written the description properly. It's not "giant pygmy space hamster" it's miniature giant space hamster! The outrage. :)
I didn't know about Viekang, more power to the authors of Murder. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 28 May 2014 : 16:35:53
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
Given that Bhaal has been dead for so long, I don't know how they can bring him back and make him powerful right away.
They can't. Just like they couldn't with Bane. That's why Bane isn't back either.
It's all a ploy by Cyric. The lord of murder has killed Xvim and as also lord of lies, deception, illusion, and intrigue tricked everybody into believing it was the reborn Bane who did it.
Now he's using a return of Bhaal scam to gain even more worshippers |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 28 May 2014 : 15:53:18
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvain
In regard to Murder in Baldur's Gate my take on it is that while they did make use of some of the game's characters (Viekang, Coran, Minsc) there is a brief section which seems to nullify the events at the end of the final installment of the game series.
From the Murder in Baldur's Gate Campaign Guide:
quote:
Few know of Bhaal's plan in these events. Among those who do, many believe that the plot collapsed forever when Adrian slew Bhaal's last high priestess and denied acceptance of the accumulated power of Bhaal, instead choosing for himself a mortal life. Those who believe that fable are fools.
The Lord of Murder is in darkness, but he waits only for two victims - the last victims - to reclaim his throne of blood.
It's kind of amusing in a way that they used Viekang, a character seen only in the game, as a plot device to bring the conclusion of the Bhaalspawn saga into the modern Realms while at the same time declaring the events of the game mere fable. Of course, the game had two potential outcomes so if one of them had to be fable I guess it's not a stretch to assume both are fable.
Coran's inclusion in Murder in Baldur's Gate makes sense in that he's one of the few characters with a life long enough to still be around and have a direct connection to the city. I'm not sure about the statue of Minsc and Boo though. I guess being one of the more popular characters from the game is reason enough to write him in. If they were going to use him though they could have at least written the description properly. It's not "giant pygmy space hamster" it's miniature giant space hamster! The outrage. :)
Given that Bhaal has been dead for so long, I don't know how they can bring him back and make him powerful right away. He was only an Intermediate Deity before, and I can't imagine that people will flock back to him in droves.
It would make more sense if Cyric is killed off somehow, leaving the millions of Cyricists looking elsewhere for a god who is equally evil, deranged, and bloodthirsty.
Actually, Bane and Bhaal should team up to kill Cyric. Bane has hated Cyric for a long time, and I'm sure he would rather have a former ally like Bhaal holding 1 or 2 of Cyric's portfolios. |
| Kilvain |
Posted - 28 May 2014 : 09:55:08
In regard to Murder in Baldur's Gate my take on it is that while they did make use of some of the game's characters (Viekang, Coran, Minsc) there is a brief section which seems to nullify the events at the end of the final installment of the game series.
From the Murder in Baldur's Gate Campaign Guide:
quote:
Few know of Bhaal's plan in these events. Among those who do, many believe that the plot collapsed forever when Adrian slew Bhaal's last high priestess and denied acceptance of the accumulated power of Bhaal, instead choosing for himself a mortal life. Those who believe that fable are fools.
The Lord of Murder is in darkness, but he waits only for two victims - the last victims - to reclaim his throne of blood.
It's kind of amusing in a way that they used Viekang, a character seen only in the game, as a plot device to bring the conclusion of the Bhaalspawn saga into the modern Realms while at the same time declaring the events of the game mere fable. Of course, the game had two potential outcomes so if one of them had to be fable I guess it's not a stretch to assume both are fable.
Coran's inclusion in Murder in Baldur's Gate makes sense in that he's one of the few characters with a life long enough to still be around and have a direct connection to the city. I'm not sure about the statue of Minsc and Boo though. I guess being one of the more popular characters from the game is reason enough to write him in. If they were going to use him though they could have at least written the description properly. It's not "giant pygmy space hamster" it's miniature giant space hamster! The outrage. :) |
| Tarlyn |
Posted - 24 May 2014 : 13:30:42
The Sundering takes place during the 1480s. The Companions ,book one of the Sundering series, takes place from 1462-1484. The actual Sundering events don't occur until much later in the book. From various Gencon discussions it sounds like the Sundering will end in the late 1480s. So, it takes place over a 6-10 year period. |
| Regcod |
Posted - 23 May 2014 : 15:21:40
Sorry but the event of 'The Sundering' in which year happen???
the 4th edition begin with 1479 DR and the 5th??? |
| Irennan |
Posted - 23 May 2014 : 13:00:10
Nope, but Vhaearun appears to have a chosen in 'The Adversary' (even tho -AFAIK- it isn't explicilty declared in the book, the author clarified that) and if he's still around, Eilistraee could be too, given how closely the two of them are related (or at least it is my hope). |
| Regcod |
Posted - 23 May 2014 : 12:04:16
Any news about Eilistraee and her followers? |
| Irennan |
Posted - 23 May 2014 : 11:08:31
quote:
Originally posted by Delandil Aenar
I didn't know about these changes, but I'm relieved by reading that Lathander is back! He was one of my favourite gods. But where all this stuff is happening? I suppose it's happening in the novels, but could someone give me some titles or some reference where to read what's going on in the Realms? (Maybe it's a very noob question, but be kind, it's my first post apart from the introductory one :D )
Yes, those changes are described in The Sundering novels. They are six books set during this massive transition event (their titles are listed in Tarlyn's first post). Five of them have already been published, the last in the series -The Herald- is coming out early June. |
| Delandil Aenar |
Posted - 23 May 2014 : 10:41:03
I didn't know about these changes, but I'm relieved by reading that Lathander is back! He was one of my favourite gods. But where all this stuff is happening? I suppose it's happening in the novels, but could someone give me some titles or some reference where to read what's going on in the Realms? (Maybe it's a very noob question, but be kind, it's my first post apart from the introductory one :D ) |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 03:39:38
... I dont foresee the shadow weave coming back...... as it was a mistake in the first place..... |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 01:36:00
So shar is fighting devil lord, while lloth is making a play for the weave * again * after her failed demonweave attempt.
Want to know what I smell? One massive plot point that will yank the divine power from devil lord, lloth losing her greater status making the other drow god's goddesses a chance for doing stuff.
An while azuth comes back to power, all that spare magical knowledge bouncing around returns to shar, and the shadow weave comes back. |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 19 May 2014 : 03:02:53
No one could ever fit the cycle idea into the framework of canon events properly, so I'm glad they went with the simpler approach, really. |
| Razz |
Posted - 19 May 2014 : 01:47:53
Abandoning his followers over and over like that must make for some really pissed off believers at some point. Unless he keeps this fact hidden, but I figure over centuries a perceptive scholar can point out,"Hey these two sun gods keep changing during these events, so it's not only clear they are the same guy, they are also giving us abandonment issues quit often."
LOL
Well, then again, Amaunator had servants still and were still receiving spells even while Lathander was prominent, though the sect was small as compared to Lathander's. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 20:36:39
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
Though I am curious about how they went from ToB to the Murder in Baldur's Gate module. At the end of ToB, all the Bhaalspawn are supposed to be dead already.
Basically "surprise, suprise everyone! There was a bhaalspawn who had hidden himself all these years and finally decided it's time to finally settle the question between him and Abdel"
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I haven't read the BG novels yet, but I know that many (most?) people who played the games despise the novels for changing a lot of stuff.
I sooo wish that changing the game stuff would be the only fault with these novels.
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
so spoil me, what was the thing said about the sun god's cynicalness( hey I cant afford books right now)
Basically whenever Lathander feels the world needs a force of stability he changes into Amaunator and whenever he feels the world needs a force of hope and renewal he changes into Lathander.
Not really a cycle, more him changing whenever he feels like (I am envisioning him with a ridiculous fake mustache he puts on and off ) |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 20:23:19
so spoil me, what was the thing said about the sun god's cynicalness( hey I cant afford books right now) |
| Tanthalas |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 20:08:48
Well, it's not impossible to make a game with multiple outcomes canon. Between BG1 and BG2, you basically found out which party of adventurers was the canon party (or at least the ones that were there at teh end). The creators just decide what is canon.
Same thing could be done with deciding which ending of Throne of Bhaal becomes canon. Though I am curious about how they went from ToB to the Murder in Baldur's Gate module. At the end of ToB, all the Bhaalspawn are supposed to be dead already.
I haven't read the BG novels yet, but I know that many (most?) people who played the games despise the novels for changing a lot of stuff. Still, I'm surprised that the games are what is canon and not the novels. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 19:35:09
It's tough to make a video game canon when there are many different outcomes of said game. I think we can agree that certain aspects of the game can and have been "canonized," such as Minsc's existence (and whatever the book says about him).
Cheers |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 19:20:31
Well you cant expect too much logic when you let the bean counters determine events in a fantasy setting.
Plenty of logic in my fantasy game. Without it you break the illusion of reality and it makes immersion difficult, which spoils any attempts at roleplaying. |
| Caolin |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 19:12:35
quote:
Originally posted by Benjamin
quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
*snipped*
The Reaver
-The Sea of Fallen Stars has returned to its normal size per 1st-3rd ed.
*snipped*
-Spellplague lands are vanishing
The Sentinel
*snipped*
-The giant black hole(Underchasm) in the map is filled again.
*snipped*
Somewhere in those books it is also revealed that the earthmotes are falling. I forget where that comes into play.
So, these are some major changes. Any logic to why the Sea of Fallen Stars is filling up again when more than a century of rivers pouring into it didn't have any effect? Just more rain doesn't stack up to me.
And how is the Underchasm filling in? A giant volcano? I can't imagine what the Underdark is going through if so. Any mention of the other giant sinkholes (Lands Mouth in Dragon Coast and Deep Maw in Anauroch)?
I really like earthmotes; what a shame to kill them off. Guess we will have to go back to mythall powered floating land masses.
It's been raining for 6+ months straight and some events happens at the end of the Reaver. I recommend you read it if you want more details. But as for logic, you can't expect too much logic out of a fantasy setting. That's what makes it fantasy. Worlds are splitting and crazy shit is happening. |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 18:12:05
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
quote:
Baldur's Gate computer games are cannon.
Is this explicitly spelled anywhere? Minsc was, after all, in the novelizations too.
Minsc's statue represents him as he appears in the games, not the novels; Viekang doesn't appear in the novels, just the games; one of the main NPCs in Murder in Baldur's Gate is Coran who also only appeared in the games; the layout of Baldur's Gate appears as close as it can to the way it did in the games without seriously messing with the maps in other published sources.
To be honest, there's nothing that expressly says that the games are canon, but the conflicts with the novels cast a lot of doubt on them. |
| Benjamin |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 17:25:37
quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
*snipped*
The Reaver
-The Sea of Fallen Stars has returned to its normal size per 1st-3rd ed.
*snipped*
-Spellplague lands are vanishing
The Sentinel
*snipped*
-The giant black hole(Underchasm) in the map is filled again.
*snipped*
Somewhere in those books it is also revealed that the earthmotes are falling. I forget where that comes into play.
So, these are some major changes. Any logic to why the Sea of Fallen Stars is filling up again when more than a century of rivers pouring into it didn't have any effect? Just more rain doesn't stack up to me.
And how is the Underchasm filling in? A giant volcano? I can't imagine what the Underdark is going through if so. Any mention of the other giant sinkholes (Lands Mouth in Dragon Coast and Deep Maw in Anauroch)?
I really like earthmotes; what a shame to kill them off. Guess we will have to go back to mythall powered floating land masses. |
| Tarlyn |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 12:09:50
quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
What do you mean by the black hole on the map, Ordulin? What's in there now?
So, you caught another thing I forgot Mapolq. In the Godborn, Shar's mouth(I think it metaphorically her mouth) is closed in Ordulin. What I am referencing in the quote is the Underchasm. There are quite a few fixes that occurring during the sundering. The summary I posted just contains the items that stand out to me. I might have missed some of the other changes.
I have edited the summary to include the Underchasm and Ordulin events in there respective books. I will also add in Lathander returning. |
| Zireael |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 08:04:33
quote:
Baldur's Gate computer games are cannon.
Is this explicitly spelled anywhere? Minsc was, after all, in the novelizations too. |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 05:35:07
Excellent summary of the Sundering from Tarlyn. I would add to "The Reaver" that Lathander returns as well, and we are given an explanation as to the cyclical nature of the sun god. Also, Silvanus's main chosen is returned to sanity. Lathander and Silvanus team up to lay the smackdown on Umberlee.
Am I the only one who finds it odd that the Sea of Fallen stars is dealt with, but the Abolethic Sovereignty is never mentioned? The 4 main villains of 4e were supposed to be Shade, Thay, the drow, and the Sovereignty.
Shade and Thay are dealt with at length in the Sundering. There's virtually no mention of the drow, but I suppose they are leaving that to RAS. The aboleths get no mention at all.
It's a shame, because RAS and Erin Evans did a fantastic job making the aboleths creepy, mysterious forces of evil. Now it seems they have been left out of the 4e wrapup. I can imagine that Xxiphu will be wiped out though, along with earthmotes and Shadovar enclaves, since 5e seems determined that structures should not fly. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 04:41:00
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I found this illuminating.
quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
Scratch two princes of shade, Brennus kills Rivalen and himself.
-Was his revenge as satisfying as I imagine it was?
Yes. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 04:30:56
-I found this illuminating.
quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
Scratch two princes of shade, Brennus kills Rivalen and himself.
-Was his revenge as satisfying as I imagine it was? |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 03:32:54
Thanks a lot, Tarlyn!
What do you mean by the black hole on the map, Ordulin? What's in there now? |
| Razz |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 03:17:05
Thank you very much. This helps a lot. I'm not too worried on spoilers (but I am aware others are) only because I simply do not have time to invest in the details myself as others have. I still like to be informed of the Realms future. This stuff is very interesting and surprising, looking forward to what is to come next. |
