| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 09:45:58
Right then, my interest in this area has been kindled by a stray mention of the Suren tribe that were precursors to the modern Nar. The Suren were a tribe of Kalmyks who came from the Hagga Shan (a smallish mountain range unable to support much life which now holds a group of dwarves from Sossal).
So i want to know everything about the Hordelands.
I have the Horde sourcebook and the three adventures (Stormriders, Black Courser and Blood Charge). Are there any other sourcebooks that might have juicy references to the Hordelands that you wouldnt expect to be there.
I found two artefacts in the Book of Artefacts that give a juicy insight into what i think is the arrival of the Kalmyks (under Gisen Khan). |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 21 May 2014 : 10:10:34
Well i'm reading the Kara Tur sourcebook now (slow day at work) so once i've copied it all out, organised and catalogued it into various sections, then i can start drawing links between bits of lore and see what sticks.
It does look like the Nine Travellers may have had a bit of a bust up at some point. The original Chukei province of Shou Lung was torched by the Nine Travellers. Well if Tan Chin was one of the nine travellers then that would still work since they would be fighting amongst themselves. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 21 May 2014 : 09:57:42
Well, technically, both versions, the one with Mulan Gods being real interloper gods, and that with them as ascended Imaskari have a foundation in canon. In the Old Empires source book, the history section opens with such text:
"Toward the end of the previous age, tribes of humans were pushed out of the Great Kingdoms of the southeast,
which were covered in desert. Legends speak of a great war in which powerful
humans fought against the gods to wrest away their power. The humans
won and became god-kings, but the war
destroyed their kingdoms. These god-kings, Re and Enlil, led the shattered remnants of their peoples into Mulhorand and Unther. The two god-kings
and their spouses became the leaders of the royal houses of these two nations"
Of course it's an old overwritten canon, but still interesting isn't it?
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I'm actually leaning towards Tan Chin, Monkey, Dragon Claw, Black Leopard, Dalai Lama, maybe a few others being the Nine Travellers.
dazzlerdal, I now noticed that my version of Yama could fit into the Nine Travelers, at least your version. Also, I noticed the name of Empress of proto-Shou Lung that was murdered by Tan Chin, was Kwan Ying, just like one of the Nine Immortals, I wonder if it has some significance... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 21 May 2014 : 01:36:14
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Tan Chin is basically a suel lich. I even connected him to the Suel Empire (from Greyhawk) in my homebrew stuff.
Unlike the Netherese, who mostly built enclaves on Toril, the Imasakari enjoyed building their enclaves on other worlds, pretending to be 'gods' and spreading their culture. In fact, the way I spin it, the Pharonic Pantheon were really just Archmages who attained deity status on various worlds, and eventually returned to Toril and started a ruckus (blending FR history with Stargate a bit). The Baklunish were one group of people so ruled over, for a time, and Tan Chin was one of their Imaskari governors.
Then, when the Netherese came into their own - and discovered the even more powerful Imaskari - they began a pogrom of uprisings in the Imaskari colonies (around the same time as that debacle in The Outlands). They backed the Suel on Oerth, who were an indigenous magical empire, which lead to the Great wars in Oerth's past, and the eventual destruction of Suel by the Baklunish (really Imaskari archmages/demi-gods). Tan Chin picked-up the Suel Lich knowledge during this conflict (distantly related to the Shade/Shadovar rituals), and brought shadow-magic back with him to Imaskar.
At a later date (and after much corruption from the shadow magic), the Imaskari had pushed their colonies (and their archmage gevernors) to the point of revolt. The Imaskari had managed to erect the Godwall to keep the conflict from spilling back onto Toril, but eventually that was bypassed, and the expatriate archmages (now 'gods') leveled Imaskar with the same ritual used against the Suel - the Rain of Colorless Fire (which may have even been an adaption of the earlier elven ritual of desecration used against the Miyeritari elves and created the High Moor).
As for Tan Chin, he fled before the final battle, probably into Tempat Lerang - which was the furthest southern province of Anok-Imaskar at that time (there is some history in Ronin Challenge which pertains to this - I think Governor Sangkal Chunbi (pg.66) was one of the MANY bodies Tan Chin 'borrowed').
I have him returning and ruling a reunited Shou Empire in Kara-Tur post-Spellplague (he took over the body of one of the twins in Tu-Lung... its a long story).
Almost all homebrew - but I believe that not only does FR history NOT 'happen in a vacuum', but that that should also apply to the D&D multiverse as well. Archmages are not limited to meddling on one world.
I somewhat like this idea. I'd prefer it be that the "Mulan" Pantheon still be actual deities from a conquered people, just to keep things more canon. However, I'd prefer it be that these outlying Imaskari colonies eventually draw the ire of deities from different worlds. However, these deities are drawn together by the fact that these colonies from other worlds use portals that effectively make the worlds close. This portal network pisses off Ptah for some reason, and he begins aiding the various worlds cultures to overthrow the outlying Imaskari presences. This could explain one culture having more Egyptian, one having more Babylonian, and another having more Sumerian influences.
The linking of the Suel & the Rain of Colorless Fire works well with this at a glance. The question can also be that the Imaskari may have met other arcane societies (say the Suel) and the two societies mutually benefited and shared ideas (and possibly interbred). |
| Baltas |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 20:30:50
I have the Celestial Emperor as the same Indra, from Malatra. The Jade Emperor is in Buddism connected to Sakra/Sakka, also called Indra, and is the king of Deva. I have that Indra(who is a goddess on Toril) is the Emperors Yin, the chaotic, feminine side, and his Celestial Emperor persona(also known as Sakra) is the Yang, the ordered, male aspect of his/hers being. Yama, Indra’s ‘brother’, is a being who was helped by the Emperor in achieving enlightenment before even the Nine Immortals, but they latter had a quarrel. Yama(known in Shou Lung as Yen-Lo-Wang, and as Enma in Wa and Kozakura), is because of this, a kind of border member of the Celestial Bureaucracy, but still tasked with handling petitioners. I thought now after writting and reading this thread, that maybe the Emperor was originally Serpens/T’ien Lung, who as, one of masks used among humanity, was a great male emperor, and was later deified by his/her's subjects, and kept this latter a her main appearance when dealing with mortals, and many other beings.
[edit]
Also, yeah the forum deletion by WOTC was horrible, so many interesting ideas lost. I remember one thread that had an setting with Faerun dominated by an Amuanator monotheism, with other deities degraded to lesser spirits under him, or demons; another that had a brilliant merger of Oerth and Middle earth; and an theogony for the gods of Greyhawk. All of that lost because of wizbro's incompetence.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 19:28:56
I'm actually leaning towards Tan Chin, Monkey, Dragon Claw, Black Leopard, Dalai Lama, maybe a few others being the Nine Travellers.
They ruled Kara-Tur in ancient times and according to history they gave their rulership to Nung Fu. What if they were forcibly removed.
Perhaps the Celestial Emperor is one of the nine travellers that betrayed the others by making an alliance with the Shou (Imaskari).
Perhaps the Celestial Emperor is one of the "old gods" a dragon like creature that wanted his land back and used the Shou to get it. He forced out the nine travellers and took control of their refuge. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 18:29:59
I glad our simple musings(with of corse the lead of dazzlerdal) gave you fun Mark!
I think that Tan Chin might've transcended the normal Suel Lich state, maybe achieving a partial/false 'enlightment'/ascension into Padhrasattvahood, maybe even through poor Ambuchar. Becoming to something like Anubis' partial ascension in Stargate. I'm drawing here both from your's and dazzlerdal's conclusions, but I think they can be recoiled.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 17:19:04
I had copied most of it into my notes, but thats all gone now.
Yes, WotC demolishing their website (at least twice since the introduction of 4e) destroyed so many great threads and much homebrew lore. I think that horrific Gleemax thing was just one more nail in that coffin (people were so angry so much great stuff had been lost).
But whatever. Whats done is done. I am now looking forward to a new era. I even already have my next campaign all planned out using the 5e rules!  |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 16:50:36
We live to serve, and its glad to have you back if only for a few hours.
If its a long time ago i doubt KT revisited exists now (brilliant idea of WoTC to delete everything). If you happen to have or get your hands on anything from that thread could you send it my way pretty please.
I cant wait to get into the KT stuff now, im glad the history is just as interconnected and spread out as normal FR stuff, although i will probably have to westernise it just out of personal preference. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 16:35:30
Found what I was looking for - the Black Panther's name is Bauhei in The Realms. It is listed in his only detailed write-up in Mad monkey vs Dragon Claw OA5, TSR9242, on pg.53.
Interestingly, just looking at the pics (and reading) in that section gives me other ideas; Lung Jua looks like he could be related to Druaga!
P.S. I have six FR PDF's open at the moment thanks to you, and truly, THANK YOU for that. I almost forgot how much fun this was.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 16:27:54
It was in the threads we were doing over on the WotC forums a long time ago (now). One was the Kara-Tur revisited thread, and the other was the Utter East thread. The Utter East thread had more 'deep research', thanks to a couple of people who were amazing at digging up that sort of stuff (not me - nearly all of this was pointed out to me). What started out as some bare-bones lore became fully fleshed-out because of those guys.
Tan Chin's history is.... complicated. Sometimes he's 'the good guy' (mostly in the 'official histories' of Shou Lung), other times he sort of neutral, and still others he is 'evil incarnate'. He seems to have had an on-going conflict with the Black Panther, who is a another personage/ demi-power/organization that is very ambiguous in the lore. I think Tan Chin is actually a 'good guy' in his own mind. He wants to rule because he thinks he is best suited for it (and in some ways, perhaps he is right). He strikes me more as a 'Doctor Doom' type, or even a Magneto. He does what he must, "for the greater' good (which often means committing atrocities). He also has created at least two armies of automatons (Golems? Warforged?), making him VERY interesting indeed. This is why we speculated he may have gotten his hands on a Bloodforge (from the Utter East material).
As for the Black Panther - I peg him as Vibhishana, an incredibly rare, good-hearted Rakshasa. Since we (canonically) have the Vedic pantheon nearby (just south of Tu-Lung in Malatra), its not that much of a stretch. I have a whole history for him and the Rakshasa of FR as well, tied to Zakhara... but thats another story. I feel a LOT of of 'Earth Mythology' is actually Torillian history, which is the most basic premise of The Forgotten Realms. They don't borrow from us, we remember them.  |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 15:56:33
Off to look up Wyrmbane Helm right now.
I dont suppose you could point me in the direction of this KT update stuff? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 15:48:13
Ambuchar Devyam was not just an alias (as stated in LEoF) of Tan Chin, but was an actual monk who purchased (IIRC) Solon (this is covered in the three Hordland modules).
So we have to assume poor Ambuchar tried to do the right thing, and during his rebuilding of Solon discovered/released the lich, who immediately took him over, and saw vast potential in having a monk body. You see, Suel Liches eventually burn-out their hosts, but a monk gets Diamond-body, which negates the aging affects.
My theory is that Tan Chin still keeps Ambuchar around - possibly imprisoned - as his 'permanent host'. During his time in Solon, he took long 'vacations' from Ambuchar's body, which lead to the inhabitants thinking he was a bit nuts (bi-polar). Ambuchar may or may not have been aware of the lich's control, and was still trying to rule Solon correctly: Solon has a long anti-dragon history - see the Wyrmbane Helm entry on pg.104 of Dragon Magic. That shoe-horns perfectly with Tan Chin's own interactions with the purple dragon Gaumahavi.
This actually helps us cover-up a lot of the inconsistencies in the history of the region (because Tan-Chin would jump in and out of various people). During his time as Ambuchar, the Monk continued his training and eventually reached level 20 (and thus gaining the Diamond Body ability that Tan Chin wanted). We (those of us who were working on a K-T update awhile back) had determined that the surname 'Devyam' was actual a title Tan chin took for himself after he possessed the Monk (something along the lines of 'god king' in in an eastern tongue). |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 14:50:48
I actually quite like that idea, it blends nicely with bits of FR history.
Of course i cant use it because i do think FR history should exist in a vacuum if only to preserve my own sanity. (The Orcus/Tiamat/Bahamut/Mulan/Imaskari debacle is sooo much easier to deal with if you separate FR history from everywhere else.)
But apart from that it fits together nicely. I will have to keep my eye out for possible Tan Chin vessels in all the kara tur books now. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 14:37:32
Tan Chin is basically a suel lich. I even connected him to the Suel Empire (from Greyhawk) in my homebrew stuff.
Unlike the Netherese, who mostly built enclaves on Toril, the Imasakari enjoyed building their enclaves on other worlds, pretending to be 'gods' and spreading their culture. In fact, the way I spin it, the Pharonic Pantheon were really just Archmages who attained deity status on various worlds, and eventually returned to Toril and started a ruckus (blending FR history with Stargate a bit). The Baklunish were one group of people so ruled over, for a time, and Tan Chin was one of their Imaskari governors.
Then, when the Netherese came into their own - and discovered the even more powerful Imaskari - they began a pogrom of uprisings in the Imaskari colonies (around the same time as that debacle in The Outlands). They backed the Suel on Oerth, who were an indigenous magical empire, which lead to the Great wars in Oerth's past, and the eventual destruction of Suel by the Baklunish (really Imaskari archmages/demi-gods). Tan Chin picked-up the Suel Lich knowledge during this conflict (distantly related to the Shade/Shadovar rituals), and brought shadow-magic back with him to Imaskar.
At a later date (and after much corruption from the shadow magic), the Imaskari had pushed their colonies (and their archmage gevernors) to the point of revolt. The Imaskari had managed to erect the Godwall to keep the conflict from spilling back onto Toril, but eventually that was bypassed, and the expatriate archmages (now 'gods') leveled Imaskar with the same ritual used against the Suel - the Rain of Colorless Fire (which may have even been an adaption of the earlier elven ritual of desecration used against the Miyeritari elves and created the High Moor).
As for Tan Chin, he fled before the final battle, probably into Tempat Lerang - which was the furthest southern province of Anok-Imaskar at that time (there is some history in Ronin Challenge which pertains to this - I think Governor Sangkal Chunbi (pg.66) was one of the MANY bodies Tan Chin 'borrowed').
I have him returning and ruling a reunited Shou Empire in Kara-Tur post-Spellplague (he took over the body of one of the twins in Tu-Lung... its a long story).
Almost all homebrew - but I believe that not only does FR history NOT 'happen in a vacuum', but that that should also apply to the D&D multiverse as well. Archmages are not limited to meddling on one world. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 14:01:02
Well i think Tan Chins form as it is is actually quite perfect. He is nothing but a disembodied spirit that can only be seen as the outline of a pair of eyes. Who or what he inhabits is up to him and makes him all the more dangerous because he could possess anything and anyone (like Tyranthraxus).
Transforming people into undead is definitely something Tan Chin already does and transforming them into other things is probably not out of his remit. I would imagine anything that makes them more useful to him is all he thinks about.
I reckon the Sossrim are a product of their environment more than their genetics. They are of a mixture of Shou, Rashemi, and a bit of Ulutiu stock so they should be dark skinned and tanned skin. However they have silver hair and bright white skin.
Their home is said to be magical and i wouldnt be surprised if everything was made of ice - the plants, the animals, the ground, the weapons, the buildings. All that magic is going to leech into the people in some way and produce all kinds of weird mutations. Of course it could just be a portal that dumped another bunch of northmen into the far reaches of Faerun. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 12:57:15
I see that you made Tan Chin a bit into a Mara-like figure, which is interesting. Maybe you could make his true form a giant centipede, as they were sometimes thought in Chinese myth to be associated with a mockery of dragons, and often seen as demonic. I thought to add to my Kara-Tur and Hordelands campaign some undead, or native outsider beings based on Yurei, Evil Kami, and Hungry Ghosts, that are created when a person is kept in this world, often by powerful negative emotions. Something also kind of like the Unsent(http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Unsent) and fiends(http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fiend_ Final_Fantasy_X ) from Final Fantasy X, who have such inspiration. I thought now also that Tan Chin could force people into transformation into such entities, that he would bound to serve him.
Sossrim are also quite interesting in many ways, like that they worship a good/neutral aspect of Auril(her persona before the corruption by Tharizdun?) and that they quite resemble Northmen physically, at least. Makes me wonder if they maybe didn't crossbreed with them over the ages, through some contact, or is it just an example of convergent evolution?
|
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 18 May 2014 : 04:50:50
To me, it has the feel of the areas in/around Turan, Kosala and Vendhya in Hyboria...I think you hit it spot on!
Semphar is even much like Iranistan...I love the whole area. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 17 May 2014 : 20:51:18
Im getting a very big Conan the barbarian (the film) vibe from the hordelands area and I think the isolationist behaviour of nations and people in the area plays very well with this.
If u build the whole area around the Path/Way then imagine Tan Chin/Ambuchar in Solon as Thulsa Doom.
I imagine him deliberately leaving false clues about the path and then directing them towards Solon where they become slaves forever.
Im also thinking that Bhaals church kind of survives in the hordelands with its capital centred on sentinel spire and the old man.
The hordelands has a lot of potential for a very interesting alternative to the realms. One that is magic, civilisation, and technology lite very much like conan |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 17 May 2014 : 16:33:05
The problem I had with the hordelands was more that many of the society's were essentially introverted and you couldn't see their interaction with each other much. You know, there was the society of assassins that kept to itself. Then there was the society of monkish folk (with a Dali Lama) in Ra-Khati who didn't leave their country. Then there was a society in the Hollow Crown Mountains (the Gugari) that's trying to keep itself hidden. It makes for great adventuring in that you can go into an area and mess it up and leave, but as a DM/lover or realmslore it kind of left me wanting. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 17 May 2014 : 15:26:38
Indeed the Hordelands materials really expand Kara-Tur, and connect it with the rest of the Toril, and give it a 'organic' feeling. The Horde Campaign book is one of the most underrated D&D books ever, I think. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 17 May 2014 : 15:11:06
Ah, I was looking in the kara tur appendix. I'll try the FR appendixes.
In all honesty I dont know where im headed with kara tur at the moment. When I read the kara tur books then I will figure out what their religion is but given the hints in the hordelands stuff they wont be actual gods.
Kara Tur never interested me until I read the hordelands stuff but now im hooked. It just needs a bit of fixing is all. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 17 May 2014 : 14:07:19
I think it's from the Forgotten Realms Appendix to the Monstrous Compendium. Also, are the Celestial Dragon and Celestial Emperor one and the same in your version? |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 16 May 2014 : 11:58:38
Interesting that i did not find this celestial dragon writeup in my version of the Kara-Tur monstrous compendium. Which book did this come from? |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 16 May 2014 : 11:57:49
I think that refers to the dragon members of the celestial bureaucracy rather than the actual celestial dragon.
It states they are thought to be favoured servants of the celestial bureaucracy so i would guess they are the highest ranking members of the bureaucracy. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 16 May 2014 : 11:34:15
In the Kara-Tur 2e compendium there is this Celestial Dragon, but I wonder if the mention is to one specific, maybe even more powerful dragon. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 16 May 2014 : 11:20:32
Well the celestial dragon is the big guy in charge. I dont know who or what he may be but he is connected to Guge in some way so he may be some kind of ascended fey.
He may be an actual dragon that is so powerful he is practically godlike. There isnt much about him in the Hordelands book so any theories on him will have to wait.
What is clear that those beings who successfully complete this path to enlightenment end up as powerful immortal beings in service to him.
Some of those beings take the form of dragons, some take other forms. The storm riders adventure while being based on reincarnation stated that the greater dragon form was the highest that could be achieved so rather like the choirs of angels having a set of tiers with different forms for each i picture these servants taking forms based on their importance within the service to the celestial emperor.
It also appears that at some point in history the previous servants of the celestial dragon were ousted and replaced by the shou (the emperors being the first but others followed).
Since most of the path of enlightenment is based around the old kingdom of Guge i reckon the fey peoples that inhabited the area were his first set of servants (although what form their service took i dont know). Monkey, Dragon Claw, The Invisible Tigers, the Dalai Lama, all of these are probably from this old court of the celestial dragon. The giants in grey may also be from this old court of immortals.
Then the Shou arrive and discover the Path/Way and first they take over the temple dedicated to the Path/Way in Guge (Hordelands states this event and it sounds separate to the invasion of Guge). Then i reckon at least a few of the emperors of Shou successfully take the Path/Way and create the Celestial Bureaucracy.
With their protectors gone, Guge is in danger and so launches an attack on the lair of the celestial dragon (which must be accessed from Hollow Crown Mountain) but they lose and Guge is destroyed.
Tan Chin may have also tried to achieve the path but was barred because of his evil. However he achieved many of the stages and so becomes this unique immortal being (but not a greater dragon like the other emperors).
As for the Purple Dragon. I would think she was a member of the new celestial bureaucracy. She is immortal, very powerful but has links to Tan Chin, maybe she was a servant of his in the past and took the Path/Way in order to atone (and was successful) for any evils she did. However Tan Chin is all about secrets and lies (look at the city of Kuo Melian in the Black Courser) so i figure he is blackmailing the purple dragon into helping him.
Of course i need to read the Kara Tur boxed set so i can figure out who the Celestial Dragon might be. I dont think he is an actual god since the Imaskari hate gods and so would never pledge themselves to one.
I'm off to read Candlekeep Compendium IV now. Thanks for the info |
| Baltas |
Posted - 16 May 2014 : 10:54:08
Do you maybe mean by the Celestial Dragon, Serpens, a dragon presented in ‘The Reign of Dragons’, by Brian R. James, from Candlekeep Compendium IV? She is presented as the one who lead the ancestors of the Shou people into Kara-Tur. Also what is interesting, Brian R. James, wrote than Tiamat’s first children and grandchildren like Serpens/T’ien Lung were primordials. Also, I doubt if the Purple Dragon, and Serpens were the same being, unless she decided to incarnate herself as Surtava’s cat, and possibly influence the prince in such form into enlightenment, which would be also interesting.
I think that the Raurindi were more mostly made out of Mulan people, seing how they worshipped the Mulhorandi pantheon, with an occasional Imaskari like Martek.
My own take on Anu/Adama in my campaign, is that he, along with Ptah was a member of the original Raurin Pantheon(which also included, I think the most of the Netheril gods, and the Four Elemental Lords), which was later forsaken by the Imaskari, but still worshipped by other Raurini tribes, like the Durpari. Ptah was in the beginning venerated as inventor, creator, patron of artificers by the early Imaskari, and Anu was the worshipped as representation of laws, kingship, order, and as a counterpart to Chauntea as the Sky Father. Teylas and Etugen were in my campaign originally aliases/aspects of Anu and Chauntea, but were latter taken over by Akadi and Grumbar when the two deities got weaker in the Raurini region, and Hordelands, largely because of the anti-god spells created by the artificers, while the two primordials were unaffected.
Ptah decided to abandon Toril, but Anu stayed. This left him in a weakened state, which the Imaskari used. They captured the Sky God, and drained him of his power for millennia, possibly using this process to create some of the Imaskarcana. When the Mesopotamian, and Egyptian gods finally defeated the Artificers, they decided to let Anu rot, rather than sacrifice much of their power to revitalize him, especially that Enlil(or rather Ellil, as I go with and great post/article by ripvanwormer, were he presented that it was Ellil the Babylonian/Akkadian counterpart of Enlil, who arrived on Toril, and presented him as LN, and much more ruthless than the NG Enlil, which fits what we saw of the god in Unther history, as generally an uncaring power) as without his father, he would get the position as the king of the Untheri gods.
But Anu survived, if as little more than a vestige(kind of like Tenebrous/Orcus), and out of vengeance, and partially madness caused by his torture, pushed his remaining worshippers into aggressive monotheism. I had that Anu thirst for vengeance was quelled, when he started to learn of the Way, and found an enlightenment of sorts, releasing his grudges, and finally ended his eternal struggle with regressing fully into a vestige, finding peace as a Elightened Being, like Pahdra’s . He decided to lead Satama, or possibly even incarnate himself as the prophet, to reform his religion into what final became the path of Adama. A idea I had after reading your comments, if it wouldn’t be interesting if the Imaskari, ascended into the Nine Immortals, helped Anu find enlightenment and end his suffering, as a compensation what them and their ancestors done to the Sky Deity.
The idea to tie Teylas to Anu, was because Anu in real life is theorized to be connected with Tengri, the chief Mongol/Turkish deity, and it really seems that the aliases of Teylas and Etugen were used by someone else before Akadi and Grumbar. Anu would fit, as he had a presence in this region, and there isn’t really a Sky Father in the Faerunian Pantheon, unless one makes a very large stretch, and counts Talos or Tyr. I got also inspired by this article
http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9909D&L=REALMS-L&P=R8239&D=0&I=-3
by Thomas M. Costa, were he also connected Anu and Adama, but done it a bit differently. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 16 May 2014 : 01:38:21
want a little interesting thing. Check out Set's aliases in powers and pantheons..... one of them is Gilgeam. Personally, I've always liked Set, especially that he was starting to work his way into draconic worshippers AND that he was a patron of evil wizards. If I ever were to run a campaign with the exiled Thayans forming a new set of United Tharchions, Set would make a perfect deity for them (very Stygian). |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 15 May 2014 : 11:27:03
I have noticed a distinct lack of priest classes in the Hordelands.
Most magic is performed by shukenja and wu jen.
If i were to convert it to 3.5 rules i would use a spirit shaman and an elementalist class for shukenja and wujen.
I wonder if the gods in the Hordelands and Shou Lung have been deliberately suppressed. Perhaps this is a legacy of Imaskari influence as they hated the gods and sought to destroy them.
So the Hordelands have very few gods because they were discouraged by the Imaskari lords that ruled them. Instead they trust to spirit magic.
Whereas in Shou Lung the gods are almost banned (any religion that is not sanctioned by the government is outlawed - such as Chauntea).
I havent got to the Kara-Tur book yet but i wouldnt be surprised to find almost no clerics/priest and an abundance of monks, spirit shamans and wu-jen.
So the Path of Enlightenment is looking more and more likely as an alternative to religion. In that you aspire to become immortal and powerful (almost a god) and therefore gods are unnecessary.
Just finished Storm Riders. The adventure makes a massive error in stating Ra-Khati is a wealthy land abundant in minerals and food when the Hordelands sourcebook states the exact opposite (and given the terrain of Ra-Khati i would be inclined to go with the Horde sourcebook).
I'm not a big fan of all the reincarnation and Dalai Lama reference, but it is not unsalvageable.
The Dalai Lama, the purple dragon, the black stallion, and Ambuchar the lich of Solon all seem to me perfect candidates for beings that in the past have successfully completed the Path of Enlightenment. The Invisible Tigers also seem to be Enlightened beings that may also have once been part of the celestial bureaucracy.
We already know that Ambuchar is really Tan Chin who i would suggest was at least partially successful and then exiled from the celestial bureaucracy for whatever reason.
The Dalai Lama could be another partially successful applicant to the Path that chose voluntary exile (to combat Tan Chin) and manifests as a possessing spirit, or reincarnating spirit to continue the fight against him.
The purple dragon is almost definitely a candidate for being part of the celestial bureaucracy (especially being in the form of a dragon). But maybe have him as a former ally of Tan Chin who is being blackmailed by Tan Chin into helping him (or he will reveal his secret to the celestial bureaucracy).
Not really that bothered by the Black Stallion as it isnt pertinent to the area other than to maintain the involvement of the purple dragon which could be achieved in other ways. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 15 May 2014 : 09:24:15
How did i miss the Raurin Empire.
I have seen it referenced in the Hordelands but nowhere else. I thought it was a mistake and referred to the Mulhorand or Semphar or Murghom that inhabited the area.
It looks like the creation of the Raurin Desert was a slow process (like Anauroch) and took centuries, or perhaps millennia, and allowed the Raurin Empire to form out of the ashes of Imaskar, and may have contained the remnants of the Imaskari people, or perhaps another slave race, one taken from the Endless Wastes perhaps.
Then the Raurin desert expanded and wiped out the Raurin empire and its people moved into Durpar.
I'm not sure that the reference to Anu in the Desert of Desolation is correct, since Adama is "The One" in modern realmslore.
I also dont like the efreet and djinn reference. I would prefer some kind of unique creatures created or unleashed by the Imaskari that are significantly more threatening than an efreeti. Martek is undoubtedly an imaskari artificer, or perhaps a student of one.
Looks like i have another adventure to add to my list of reading including the three hordelands adventures. |
|
|
