| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 01 Jan 2014 : 06:09:53
Do you agree with or are you against the decision, of allowing the creation of the many arrows kingdom, and why are you for or against it? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Mr Dark |
Posted - 13 Mar 2014 : 04:43:00
Personally, I like the idea of there being an orc nation on Faerun. I think the idea is a bit overdue as eventually the tribes could become organized and become a real threat. However, I really don't like the idea of making evil creatures misunderstood monsters or the subject of some form of 'racism'. Sure, there could be a small tribe that would break the norm and try to have peaceful relations with the rest of the world but, as a whole, I feel there is a need for strictly evil creature such as orcs in a gaming world. |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 12 Mar 2014 : 21:00:56
I like the idea of monster nations. It is kind of boring when each monster always has one personality-type, even if it's supposed to be a full-fledged species. Realmsian orcs are not like Tolkien's orcs who were unambiguously stated to be created through the corruption of elves by the forces of darkness (a D&D equivalent would be fiends, or creatures made by fiends in their image). I don't know enough about Many-Arrows to give an informed opinion about that one, though. But keep reading!
I think the Sythillisian Empire/Sothillisian Empire/Murannheim was a great idea, particularly at the point of 2e Lands of Intrigue. After that it failed a bit to expain how the nation was sustaining itself, but it's fairly easy to come up with it. I can see Murannheim surviving if the ogre-magi established a ruling caste but kept humans as full citizens, and then signed treaties with Amn and Tethyr. So that's what I assume they did, though it's not said so explicitly (I think). If they went "humans are slaves and meat!" they'd have been destroyed within a few years. Their total numbers are given in Lands of Intrigue, and it's not nearly enough to continually occupy either Amn or Tethyr for a sustained period against the will of every human there, much less both of them with likely foreign support. It's definitely enough to smash Amn's military in a short campaign, topple the local government in Murann and seize power, though.
Oh, but tacking -heim to Murann was a silly idea for a name. Even if you do decide do go for Earth-analogues, why the hell would Oni leading goblinoids use a Norse suffix? Yes, I know about the Armoury of Nedeheim, but I haven't been given any good reason why Sythillis would want to emulate other giant races. |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 12 Mar 2014 : 19:56:16
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I think it's a great idea and I'd like to see more 'monster kingdoms' spring up in the (5E) Realms.
Hobgoblins are way overdue for their own lands. Goblins too.
Don't forget Murann near Amn. I set one of my campaigns in Amn duringthe time of Sythillis.
Good stuff.
|
| Seravin |
Posted - 12 Mar 2014 : 14:14:40
Everyone who weighed in on this thread should go read Catti-Brie, Bruenor, Regis and Drizzt discussing about orcs and Many-Arrows Kingdom in Night of the Hunter. I feel validated in my opinion that the kingdom was a mistake! Hehe. Awesome character reflections on the Dark Mirror short story and the nature of goblinoids such as orcs. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 21 Jan 2014 : 22:49:07
Deleted. For a few weeks at least. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 10 Jan 2014 : 18:58:26
Thorn you are ignoring the six pages of canon being thrown around to be stubbornly sticking to what you FEEL to be true. What you FEEL to be true is not equally valid to what can be proven ot be true. In so far as you can prove something about an imaginary place to be true. The facts of the matter of this matter are explicitly stated.
We are looking for a level of history, geography, sociology, etc. that it would take a book just about the kingdom to explain that will likely never exist. We have to extrapolate from the few details we do have if we want to come to some sort of "truth". |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Jan 2014 : 01:11:33
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Illance
There's no argument forthcoming from me... Many-Arrows, as an Orc nation in the North, is not represented in canon as a bunch of Orc farmers who threw down their spears in one generation. That's canon. But everyone is free to play it as they wish. It is a bit of a drag when people misrepresent canon, or disparage setting narrative based on nothing.
If they didn't throw down their spears, how did they form a peaceful nation? Where did orc merchants and crafters come from? And if they weren't farming, how did they feed their new nation while trade was being established? |
| Thorn Illance |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 23:42:12
There's no argument forthcoming from me... Many-Arrows, as an Orc nation in the North, is not represented in canon as a bunch of Orc farmers who threw down their spears in one generation. That's canon. But everyone is free to play it as they wish. It is a bit of a drag when people misrepresent canon, or disparage setting narrative based on nothing. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 22:58:10
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Illance
The Orcs of Many-Arrows did remain hugely warlike, this is obvious if you actually read the sources. Many-Arrows was in a near perpetual state of civil war, one such war lasting ten years! Before this, Obould the Second broke the treaty and entered into a War of aggression with the Silver Marches! Also, many "small wars" we're fought with neighboring countries.
Many Arrows may have been warlike, but it is canon that they remained at peace with their neighbors.
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Illance
Don't get me wrong, you can run your home game however you want. I'm just talking about canon.
You mean like all the canon statements, from an article by Salvatore himself, calling it a peaceful nation?
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Illance
See, I think sometimes a completely wrong idea, like; "the Orcs of Many-Arrows turned in their marauding sticks and picked up farming in one generation" gets repeated around when it's totally not true. Worse, people then say things like, "oh, it's so lame that this thing happened in the Realms", and that thing never happened!
Totally not true? Then how did an army turn into a nation?
Canon states, quite clearly, that Many Arrows is at peace with its neighbors. Argue that all you want to -- I've provided quotes that back me up. |
| Thorn Illance |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 19:48:08
The Orcs of Many-Arrows did remain hugely warlike, this is obvious if you actually read the sources. Many-Arrows was in a near perpetual state of civil war, one such war lasting ten years! Before this, Obould the Second broke the treaty and entered into a War of aggression with the Silver Marches! Also, many "small wars" we're fought with neighboring countries.
Don't get me wrong, you can run your home game however you want. I'm just talking about canon.
See, I think sometimes a completely wrong idea, like; "the Orcs of Many-Arrows turned in their marauding sticks and picked up farming in one generation" gets repeated around when it's totally not true. Worse, people then say things like, "oh, it's so lame that this thing happened in the Realms", and that thing never happened!
Oh! And during that 10 year war, Many-Arrows was split into two nations!
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
The United States was not at peace during the "Civil War" because the Confederate states considered themselves to have seceded from the United States. There are war agitators in Many Arrows but they do not consider themselves to have become a separate nation. Nothing quoted implies there has been much infighting in the nation you are just assuming. Thorn it seems like you are expecting the Orcs to remain hugely warlike and not paying attention to these sources. While Orcs have been violent throughout most of D&D I think the point of Many Arrows narration wise is to do something NEW and DIFFERENT. Wizards of the Coast can't just keep everything the same as it has always been repeating the same sort of events again and again.
|
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 18:47:17
The United States was not at peace during the "Civil War" because the Confederate states considered themselves to have seceded from the United States. There are war agitators in Many Arrows but they do not consider themselves to have become a separate nation. Nothing quoted implies there has been much infighting in the nation you are just assuming. Thorn it seems like you are expecting the Orcs to remain hugely warlike and not paying attention to these sources. While Orcs have been violent throughout most of D&D I think the point of Many Arrows narration wise is to do something NEW and DIFFERENT. Wizards of the Coast can't just keep everything the same as it has always been repeating the same sort of events again and again. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 15:37:19
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Illance
And the United States was at peace during the American Civil war because the Americans never attacked Canada.
It was at peace -- with other nations.
And that's been the point I've been trying to make: the orcs were not waging war upon non-orcs, which is, in the North, a very non-orcy thing to do. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 15:30:52
I would think while the rulers are pushing hard for peace or to hold everything together, I would also assume there's lots of little war bands, groups, raiders etc causing trouble, for both sides that may come close to pushing everyone back into a war. There's no way to stamp out thousands of years of warfare and hatred and everyone just magically listens.
Being a ruler in the North having to deal with that would probably be one of the crappiest jobs in Faerun. It's a powder keg just waiting to go off. |
| Thorn Illance |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 14:51:00
And the United States was at peace during the American Civil war because the Americans never attacked Canada.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 14:16:19
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Illance
Peaceful, for an Orc hoard, lol!
It is canon that the nation of Many Arrows is at peace with its neighbors, and that the leadership of the nation wants to continue that.
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Illance
The sum total of the lore on this region indicates to me that Many- Arrows is a brutal place, with no farmers or peaceniks. King Obould the 17th dispenses justice via combat in The Pit, using this and other methods as a political tool to weaken opposing factions. Trade with neighboring nations has brought unparalleled wealth to the Obould dynasty, and they are willing to maintain a staggering military force to keep it that way
No farmers? How was this in any way indicated in what I posted?
No peaceniks? Gee, I wonder how it is that the nation hasn't gone to war, then, especially with a king that is telling everyone "hey, let's have peace!" Repeated quotes showing active pursuit of a policy of peace, and this somehow indicates to you that no one wants peace?  |
| Thorn Illance |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 14:09:24
@Wooly Rupert
That's certainly one way to look at it! I think you get the best view of lore when you look at all the sources in total, though.
quote:
King Obould XVII, the reigning king of Many-Arrows, rules from the Citadel at the heart of Dark Arrow Keep. Obould continues the policies set by his distant ancestor King Obould I, pursuing an agenda of continued peace and mutually profitable trade relationships with the surrounding towns.
So Many Arrows is actively pursuing peace with its neighbors. That's a good definition of peaceful, to me.
The seventeenth king in less than ninety years, dang, orcs do have a short life! That quote says that Obould XVII pursues peace, which to me, when compared with additional lore, indicates that peace (or some variation of it) needed to be pursued, because it had not been achieved.
quote:
Hartusk is among the most powerful of the Many-Arrows war chiefs. The recognized head of the traditionalist faction in Dark Arrow Keep, he does his best to convince the other orcs that they should resume their ancient customs of raiding and warfare against the other races.
You can't resume something if you never stopped... So the orcs of Many Arrows are not raiding and making war upon their neighbors. This, again, sounds peaceful to me.
A unit of social organization in Dark Arrows is the War Chief? Since the campaign guide says the orcs warred against themselves in the mountains, and this doesn't disagree, then I'm going to interpret the sum of lore to indicate that there was a lot of fighting, and succession, in Many-Arrows.
quote:
Gorruk Scarhide is an up-and-coming orc shaman of Gruumsh and a public supporter of King Obould, though he is more measured in his support for Obould’s policy of peace toward the other peoples of the Silver Marches.
Another reference to the national policy of getting along with their neighbors.
Obould the Seventeenth is totally into profitable interactions the neighboring groups. It is clear that their are factions that are not.
quote:
Turbulent as its internal politics have been, Many-Arrows has remained largely true to the terms of the Treaty of Garumn’s Gorge over the past century. Many-Arrows has not fought any large-scale war against any of its neighbors since the treaty was signed. It has even expanded upon this treaty in some cases, signing trade agreements with both Sundabar and Silverymoon over the past two decades.
So they've adhered to -- and expanded -- a peace treaty.
How true to the terms of the treaty? Largely true, not true-true, but good enough true. And while being in a constant state of civil/ sectarian war for 90 years (20 generations?), Orcs of Many-Arrows fought in "little wars" with their neighbors?
quote:
The current ruler, King Obould XVII, is a direct descendant of Obould I, and he leads the most powerful faction in the kingdom, dedicated to continuing peace with other nations of the region.
Continuing peace. Not war.
Sure, but other factions in Many-Arrows want to hoarde-up and crush some dudes.
quote:
Uniquely among orc nations, the Kingdom of Many-Arrows is a firmly established and formally recognized kingdom of the North. Relations with its neighbors are strained, but peaceful.
There it is, in canon, from the author that created Many Arrows: Peaceful relations.
Oh yeah, it's well established that Many-Arrows and Luruar et al. are not at war. I wonder what keeps relationships strained?
quote:
Many-Arrows remains at peace with each of its neighbors, uneasy as relations may be. The orcs have not fought a major war in nearly a century, though periodic border skirmishes have been a nuisance. This era of peace shows all signs of continuing under the guidance of King Obould XVII and his heir, Lorgru.
An era of peace... I think this pretty much covers whether or not Many Arrows is a peaceful nation.
Peaceful, for an Orc hoard, lol!
The sum total of the lore on this region indicates to me that Many- Arrows is a brutal place, with no farmers or peaceniks. King Obould the 17th dispenses justice via combat in The Pit, using this and other methods as a political tool to weaken opposing factions. Trade with neighboring nations has brought unparalleled wealth to the Obould dynasty, and they are willing to maintain a staggering military force to keep it that way |
| BEAST |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 10:59:03
The orcs were considered to have been relatively peaceful for most of the last century. But then repeated acts of violent border skirmishes and internal civil wars are mentioned. They were only "peaceful" if we make concessions and allowances for the fact that they are orcs.
That's precisely what King Obould VI lamented in the Prologue to The Orc King.
They may have been "peaceful" in that manner through the mid-1460s, but apparently that changed. The FRCG (4E) says that by 1479 DR, the orcs of Many-Arrows were enemies of Luruar, and calls Dark Arrow Keep one of many threats.
MT, I know you were just playing devil's advocate. But when you do it for orcs, I can't help but poke back!
sfdragon, Bah! But the dwarves paid the orcs for that wood . . . with steel and mithral, I tell ye! |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 05:08:14
they stole the firewood........ from them thar goblins......
think of the goblins they are people too |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 04:52:44
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
It's unfortunate, but those orcs were searching for firewood on the eves of Mithral Hall, which was land stolen by King Obould in a war of aggression. They were serving a warmongering king, who had approved of even more warmongering by one of his subordinate warlords. At that point, Bruenor was clear to open fire on any orc in his path, all the way to Obould's tent. Sucked to be them, though; they sounded like swell guys: regular orcan Fred and Barney!
I hope you realize by now that I LIKE dwarves, and what I am doing there is my usual 'devil's advocate' role... which people who know me RW call "Mark arguing for arguments sake". 
I just like to make people realize there is ALWAYS another perspective... usually at least several. Every race is guilty of atrocities... we just need to be a little more like Bruenor, and see the 'greater good'.
If anything, that just made me want to read stories set during The Wailing Years even more.  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 04:41:51
Wooly beat me to it, although I have a different source. I speed-read through the entire novel (I forgot how much I had liked that one... except for 'Baffenburg'), and came across pretty-much the same info in the epilogue:
quote:
He was right, Drizzt knew, to his ultimate frustration. He reminded himself of the roads he had walked over the last decades, of the ruins he had seen, of the devastation of the Spellplague. But in the North, instead of that, because of a brave dwarf named Bruenor Battlehammer, who threw off his baser instincts, his hatred and his hunger for revenge, in light of what he believed to be the greater good, the region had known a century and more of relative peace. More peace than ever it had known before. And that while the world around had fallen to shadow and despair
Which of course takes place at the very beginning of 4e, a hundred years after the events of the book. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 04:18:34
There's some relevant quotes in Dragon 429, in the article on Dark Arrow Keep, that RA Salvatore co-wrote.
Page 6:
quote:
King Obould XVII, the reigning king of Many-Arrows, rules from the Citadel at the heart of Dark Arrow Keep. Obould continues the policies set by his distant ancestor King Obould I, pursuing an agenda of continued peace and mutually profitable trade relationships with the surrounding towns.
So Many Arrows is actively pursuing peace with its neighbors. That's a good definition of peaceful, to me.
Page 7:
quote:
Hartusk is among the most powerful of the Many-Arrows war chiefs. The recognized head of the traditionalist faction in Dark Arrow Keep, he does his best to convince the other orcs that they should resume their ancient customs of raiding and warfare against the other races.
You can't resume something if you never stopped... So the orcs of Many Arrows are not raiding and making war upon their neighbors. This, again, sounds peaceful to me.
Page 7:
quote:
Gorruk Scarhide is an up-and-coming orc shaman of Gruumsh and a public supporter of King Obould, though he is more measured in his support for Obould’s policy of peace toward the other peoples of the Silver Marches.
Another reference to the national policy of getting along with their neighbors.
Page 7:
quote:
Turbulent as its internal politics have been, Many-Arrows has remained largely true to the terms of the Treaty of Garumn’s Gorge over the past century. Many-Arrows has not fought any large-scale war against any of its neighbors since the treaty was signed. It has even expanded upon this treaty in some cases, signing trade agreements with both Sundabar and Silverymoon over the past two decades.
So they've adhered to -- and expanded -- a peace treaty.
Pages 7-8:
quote:
The current ruler, King Obould XVII, is a direct descendant of Obould I, and he leads the most powerful faction in the kingdom, dedicated to continuing peace with other nations of the region.
Continuing peace. Not war.
Page 8:
quote:
Uniquely among orc nations, the Kingdom of Many-Arrows is a firmly established and formally recognized kingdom of the North. Relations with its neighbors are strained, but peaceful.
There it is, in canon, from the author that created Many Arrows: Peaceful relations.
Page 8:
quote:
Many-Arrows remains at peace with each of its neighbors, uneasy as relations may be. The orcs have not fought a major war in nearly a century, though periodic border skirmishes have been a nuisance. This era of peace shows all signs of continuing under the guidance of King Obould XVII and his heir, Lorgru.
An era of peace... I think this pretty much covers whether or not Many Arrows is a peaceful nation. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 03:04:33
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
They weren't farmers returning home (at least, thats not what it states, at any rate), but they were just gathering firewood to bring home to their village. A very human thing to do. Too bad the blood-thirsty, savage dwarves and elf murdered them. Think of the poor orc children that will never get beaten by their da-da's again.
It's unfortunate, but those orcs were searching for firewood on the eves of Mithral Hall, which was land stolen by King Obould in a war of aggression. They were serving a warmongering king, who had approved of even more warmongering by one of his subordinate warlords. At that point, Bruenor was clear to open fire on any orc in his path, all the way to Obould's tent. Sucked to be them, though; they sounded like swell guys: regular orcan Fred and Barney!
EDIT: And I usually find it more useful to cite the chapter numbers of RAS's works, instead of page numbers, because there are so many different editions of them, and the pagination varies widely. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 02:55:22
The pdf I have says that on pg.170, but I have also found the pertinent section I was somewhat misremembering (but only somewhat), on pg. 243 (of the pdf):
quote:
The two orcs stood under a widespread maple, the sharp, stark lines of its branches not yet softened by the onset of buds. They talked and chuckled at their own stupidity, for they were completely lost, and far separated from their kin at the small village. A wrong turn on a trail in the dark of night had put them far afield, and they had long ago abandoned the firewood they had come out to collect.
One lamented that his wife would beat him red, to warm him up so he could replace the fire that wouldn't last half the night.
The other laughed and his smile lingered long after his mirth was stolen by an elven arrow, one that neatly sliced into his companion's temple. Standing in confusion, grinning simply because he hadn't the presence of mind to remove his own smile, the orc didn't even register the sudden thump of heavy boots closing in fast from behind him. He was caught completely unawares as the sharp tip of a helmet spike drove into his spine, tearing through muscle and bone, and blasted out the front of his chest, covered in blood and pieces of his torn heart.
They weren't farmers returning home (at least, thats not what it states, at any rate), but they were just gathering firewood to bring home to their village. A very human thing to do. Too bad the blood-thirsty, savage dwarves and elf murdered them. Think of the poor orc children that will never get beaten by their da-da's again.
As for farming, I would also have to check that short story featuring Drizzt returning the elf's body to her people - source please? In that, Drizzt had an aerial view of Obould's kingdom, and he was surprised by all they were building (and by how advanced it all was). I remember there was some very good descriptive text (it is RAS - he excels at painting a scene). I know those damn Orc farms are out there somewhere. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 02:49:49
That passage from The Orc King isn't a declaration from the third-person narrator. It is part of a passage in which a warmongering shaman is attempting to put together his case against King Obould as he goes to rile up the warmongering Chieftain Grguch. Toogwik was thinking to himself that he would tell Grguch that Obould was ordering orcs to farm the ground. It's propaganda.
Did Obould ever actually tell his orcs to be farmers? I don't recall.
But that particular passage is hearsay, at best, and therefore inadmissable in a court of lore. 
And MT, Bruenor's party didn't murder any orcs on that particular adventure. Much to Pwent's chagrin, who was hoping they would storm a newly built orc keep at least, Bruenor led his group past orc patrols and caravans all the way to the Fell Pass. Oddly, King Obould claimed that swath of land for his new kingdom, although Bruenor's party never encountered a single orc there. (It was the late winter of early 1372 DR, so the orcs were probably smart enough to avoid that snow-filled valley like the plague.) The dwarves didn't commit murder--but you could probably ding 'em for trespass! |
| Thorn Illance |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 01:44:23
Interesting! In The Orc King? I guess my search-a-ma-jig didn't scan the epub properly. What page number is that on, so I can try to I fix my search tool? I ask because the kingdom as described in FRCS doesn't sound peaceful or agrarian at all!
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
It took me all of 10 seconds (once I knew the name of the source) to prove you wrong...
quote:
Obould demanded they sit and wait, that they till the ground like peasant human farmers. Grguch demanded of them that they sharpen their spears and swords to better cut the flesh of dwarves.
Apparently I was wrong as well, by assuming they were only engaged in animal husbandry. They did 'till the soil', because Obould demanded it of them.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 01:23:59
It took me all of 10 seconds (once I knew the name of the source) to prove you wrong...
quote:
Obould demanded they sit and wait, that they till the ground like peasant human farmers. Grguch demanded of them that they sharpen their spears and swords to better cut the flesh of dwarves.
Apparently I was wrong as well, by assuming they were only engaged in animal husbandry. They did 'till the soil', because Obould demanded it of them. |
| Thorn Illance |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 01:19:06
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In one of the Drizzt novels (the one where they find {shudder} Baffenburg, IIRC), the 'heroes' come across a pair of 'Orc Farmers' on their way home. They were making small talk, very similar to humans (along the lines of "my wife is gonna kill me..."). I can't give you exact quotes or page #'s because all my books burned.
Anyhow, the gist of it was that Bruenor's group was sneaking into Orc territory, and murdering peaceful orcs enroute, like those farmers. If you have farmers, you have farms.
Oh, you must be referring to The Orc King. I reviewed the relevant sections, as well as doing a key-word search of the entire novel.
"Farmer" is never used to refer to the orcs of Baffenburg. In fact, the term is not used at all in book!
I know this is the general shelf, but it seems to me that there is no canon which indicates that the orcs of Many-Arrows were peaceful or farmers! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 00:38:46
In one of the Drizzt novels (the one where they find {shudder} Baffenburg, IIRC), the 'heroes' come across a pair of 'Orc Farmers' on their way home. They were making small talk, very similar to humans (along the lines of "my wife is gonna kill me..."). I can't give you exact quotes or page #'s because all my books burned.
Anyhow, the gist of it was that Bruenor's group was sneaking into Orc territory, and murdering peaceful orcs enroute, like those farmers. If you have farmers, you have farms. I don't know about planting crops - I am assuming animal farms would be fairly normal (so technically, ranches, not farms). Except for the Ondonti, I know of no other orcs who actually plant crops. Many tribes do keep food animals, though. Some also keep Worgs for hunting. At least one tribe (in the Fallen Lands, IIRC) ride ostrich-like birds. Yup... thats canon... and awfully weird.
So we are probably using the term 'farmer' incorrectly. They are sheperds... don't know if that makes it any better. Orcs rarely get to occupy lands conducive to farming, so they would have no skills in that area. |
| Thorn Illance |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 00:13:26
quote:
The fact that Many Arrows wasn't at war with its neighbors shows it was at least somewhat peaceful, and they had to have farmers to have some self-sufficiency. You can't have a nation that is all army and no civilians.
But Many-Arrows was in a near-perpetual state of civil war for the first 90 years it existed. That's like, super unpeaceful.
Why can't a civilization exist without farmers? There are many examples of civilizations that have existed without farming. I could see these orcs having some animal husbandry, like keeping pens of rothe or something, but certainly there was extremely little, if any, cultivation of plants for food.
Unless there is a canon source somewhere that I've missed? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Jan 2014 : 23:59:06
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Illance
Hey guys, long time Realms fan and lurker on these forums. Being reading Candlekeep for a while, but I've just decided to get involved!
Question regarding this thread...
Where does it state in canon that Many-Arrows was peaceful, or that the orcs of Many-Arrows were farmers? I can't find any evidence to suggest that either of these things were true.
Also, what role do you guys think that Alustriel played in the formation of Many-Arrows? I'm pretty sure she played a major role in its founding, but not too sure about canon examples of that... (besides hints from Ed).
Anyway, thanks!
The fact that Many Arrows wasn't at war with its neighbors shows it was at least somewhat peaceful, and they had to have farmers to have some self-sufficiency. You can't have a nation that is all army and no civilians. |
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