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 Someone... who should come back in 5e....

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
silverwolfer Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 07:03:26
The one...


the only...

Obould_Many-Arrows...

Now that is a villain that died to soon , as far as plot points go. That is a creature that should have stayed around as much as drizzits assassin buddy.

Lovely new dynamic, raised the status of a monster race into a wonderful roleplaying generator. Showed that if drow can be chaotic evil and have a kingdom, then so can orcs.


I just .... it makes me sad, that we don't get more of this, he is supposedly a demigod in service to grummish, after the cataclysm and such, I can see him being sent back down, into semi mortal status, and leading folks again , after all the chaos settles.


In-fact... I beg for it.
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Ayrik Posted - 16 Nov 2013 : 20:21:53
Actually, I wonder what happened to good old Korth, low-level barbarian of small repute from ye olde FRC0 Grey Box. Quite a significant fellow in my campaigns.
Ayrik Posted - 16 Nov 2013 : 20:17:39
Khelben imprinted his identity within a kiira? What a scamp, managing to dodge fate. I see opportunity for much Chosen-in-a-bottle abuse, especially without Mystra around.
sfdragon Posted - 16 Nov 2013 : 06:49:10
How about RAvencloak??????
Drizztsmanchild Posted - 16 Nov 2013 : 06:29:39
If I am not mistaken, Didn't Obould become an exarch? Why would he want to return as a mortal :-)? Also I would like to read the story about Artus(Artis?) Cimber becoming an exarch.
Dennis Posted - 16 Nov 2013 : 05:31:28

Some of the following characters that I want to see given ample novel time in 5E are not necessarily "dead" but mostly have just fallen into obscurity:

Aeron Morrieth
Pharaun
Halaster
Brennus Tanthul
Rivalen Tanthul
Khelben Arunsun
Sammaster
Lallara Mediocros
Lauzoril
Nevron
The Metal Mage
Lod
Steven Schend Posted - 14 Nov 2013 : 19:34:15
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Bringing back Khelben seems a dangerous precedent. Sure, he was a Chosen quasi-divine sort, which could easily explain a miraculous resurrection. But, as I understand it, Mystra‘s Magisters and Chosen could only retire through permanent death, their soul essence stuff irrevocably merged into Mystra and her Weave ... bringing back a Chosen just opens the door for bookloads of cheap deaths and even cheaper lack of final deaths, it would make the legendary battles and sacrifices of these characters largely meaningless routine.

Though there does seem to be some merit in the notion of a Waterdhavian Cult of Khelben, the sincere faith of which might manifest a sort of half-amnesiac composite avatar of Khelben in times of great need.


While I like this idea more than a little, I'll say what the character(s) in my head tell me:

Vajra Safahr, the 7th Blackstaff of Waterdeep, would enter the main enclave of said cult and politely ask them to stop. "Khelben was many things and god-touched, indeed, but he was never a god, nor would he ever wish to be, no matter who might tell you otherwise."

What she doesn't say: Their prayers and tinkerings disturb the workings of Blackstaff Tower and her own powers because they syphon/leach magic/energy from the kiira fragments and mental template of Khelben still remnant therein.

If they continue, the Khelben persona will rise up, say "Desist!" and then establish a spell that rendered anyone who prayed to him as a godhead to be rendered mute for a definitive length of time. (And that's the nicest thing that'd happen....)



Steven
Markustay Posted - 14 Nov 2013 : 14:32:00
I've never read the last Spellfire novel; when I heard how it ends, I didn't bother.

Life is sad enough.
SirUrza Posted - 14 Nov 2013 : 13:51:44
I seem to remember Shandril went to Mystra... and we all remember what happened to Mystra and her Realm. Poor Azuth.
Seravin Posted - 14 Nov 2013 : 03:02:33
She sort of appeared as a spirit of sorts at the end if I remember? God I really hated Hand of Fire. Why didn't anyone just teleport her or use a gate to get her to Silverymoon? Why did she have to take the world's most dangerous caravan full of killers to get there?

Crown of Fire I loved, though.
Firestorm Posted - 14 Nov 2013 : 00:57:25
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Bringing back Khelben seems a dangerous precedent. Sure, he was a Chosen quasi-divine sort, which could easily explain a miraculous resurrection. But, as I understand it, Mystra‘s Magisters and Chosen could only retire through permanent death, their soul essence stuff irrevocably merged into Mystra and her Weave ... bringing back a Chosen just opens the door for bookloads of cheap deaths and even cheaper lack of final deaths, it would make the legendary battles and sacrifices of these characters largely meaningless routine.

Though there does seem to be some merit in the notion of a Waterdhavian Cult of Khelben, the sincere faith of which might manifest a sort of half-amnesiac composite avatar of Khelben in times of great need. Better yet, other deities (oh, Cyric or Mask or Bane?) Might impersonate such a quasi-Khelben to further their own objectives.

I might be mistaken, but doesn‘t spellfire also grant exceptional longevity, agelessness, or effective immortality? If so, then people like Shandril might also still be around, and presumably much grown in power after mastering spellfire for a century.


Didn't she nuke herself in the 3rd spellfire book?
Firestorm Posted - 14 Nov 2013 : 00:35:50
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Yeah, I'd love to see Cat as the 'wise old matron' of clan Wyvernspur... with lots of little 'wyvernspurs' with an odd bloodline ability.

And somewhere in a novel about them, a cameo by her sister Alias. Don't even name her... just refer to her as 'my sister'. Yeah... that'd be AWESOME.

meee too!
I was happy as heck when Cat and Giogi made a quick appearance in Cormyr, a novel.

Heck, the Wyvern's spur book Cat was introduced in was hilarious all around. When Olive was turned into an ass and pet of Giogi was just great(OMG, I just fell for the old apple/halter trick!). She was smart enough to see when people like Cat were playing it up, but Dandy old Giogi was just a pushover

Ayrik Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 23:11:49
Bringing back Khelben seems a dangerous precedent. Sure, he was a Chosen quasi-divine sort, which could easily explain a miraculous resurrection. But, as I understand it, Mystra‘s Magisters and Chosen could only retire through permanent death, their soul essence stuff irrevocably merged into Mystra and her Weave ... bringing back a Chosen just opens the door for bookloads of cheap deaths and even cheaper lack of final deaths, it would make the legendary battles and sacrifices of these characters largely meaningless routine.

Though there does seem to be some merit in the notion of a Waterdhavian Cult of Khelben, the sincere faith of which might manifest a sort of half-amnesiac composite avatar of Khelben in times of great need. Better yet, other deities (oh, Cyric or Mask or Bane?) Might impersonate such a quasi-Khelben to further their own objectives.

I might be mistaken, but doesn‘t spellfire also grant exceptional longevity, agelessness, or effective immortality? If so, then people like Shandril might also still be around, and presumably much grown in power after mastering spellfire for a century.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 19:04:05
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Suppose we had an author (in some other setting) who wrote a few novels about his characters, and then just stopped, with zero closure, and started writing about completely different characters. That wouldn't upset you?


Yes, it would upset me. And yes, I do want to know more about my fave characters from prior editions.

But I'm not going to keep complaining about that, and I'm certainly not going to let that keep me from exploring new characters.
Markustay Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 17:31:14
Suppose we had an author (in some other setting) who wrote a few novels about his characters, and then just stopped, with zero closure, and started writing about completely different characters. That wouldn't upset you?

Sure, we can get new characters, but I still want to know what happened to all the old ones. Thats like Marvel or DC creating a whole new group of heroes and just ignoring everything they've done before. That would fail big-time, I think. You can introduce new characters (and stories), but you still have to link them to the past, IMO. This can be done well (I am thinking about the ever-changing cast of Walking Dead right now), or it can be done very poorly (and here I am picturing the absolutely abysmal Law of Nines by Terry Goodkind). One of the very few IPs I've seen where this doesn't even become an issue is in the Mithgar novels - McKiernan has somehow made ALL of his main characters immortal, in one fashion or another, and it simply works for him (I guess it all depends on the setting). For instance, wizards seem to go through some sort of Doctor Who-ish rejuvenation process every couple of centuries.

Anyhow, I am not against new stories set in a new time period, I just want to see some of The Realms I fell in love with again, not some other time period with 'borrowed' characters. That just cheapens all of it, IMHO. To me, thats like just taking the name of an old fav and pasting it onto someone new. For me, the connection to the old character is just broken.

And not just the 1e/2e/3e era either - we have been clamoring for historic novels for years - The Realms has a very rich history - they need to mine the hell out of it.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 16:37:00
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

IIRC, both Bob and Ed were initially against the timejump (maybe because they still had stories to tell... or maybe just because they are both very smart men).

Regardless (because I don't want to go down that road yet-again), I do have hope for the 5 Realms, despite how I may come off. The reason for this is that I am hoping they allow authors to write stories 'set in the past'. Thus far, I have not seen that, AT ALL, and if all these authors are porting' their favs into the 4e+ realms... well... thats just a VERY bad sign.

I have no intention of reading anything set post 1400 DR, so if thats their plan, they can leave me out. That is NOT "support for all eras", that is just some corporate hyperbole BS. I want to read about my favorite characters when they were alive, not in some sort of 'after death' resurrection scenario, set in a world I neither recognize nor care for. That might be their idea of a compromise, but for me, thats no compromise as at all - its just putting some tasty sauce over a smelly fish.

I WILL continue to buy (good) gaming material, but I need to see true 'support for all eras' in the novel line if they want me back on that end of things. Then again, after my recent trip to the bookstore, even if I wanted to, I think that door has closed.



As I've said more than once, all of the most popular characters in the Realms were at one time new characters. I, for one, am not willing to rule out the possibility of new and intriguing characters, just because the time line has advanced.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 16:34:11
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Yeah, I'd love to see Cat as the 'wise old matron' of clan Wyvernspur... with lots of little 'wyvernspurs' with an odd bloodline ability.

And somewhere in a novel about them, a cameo by her sister Alias. Don't even name her... just refer to her as 'my sister'. Yeah... that'd be AWESOME.



Zhara did mention to Alias that she (Zhara) had met several of the others. I think it might also be interesting to meet some of the others -- we only had names for four of them, and one of those was disintegrated. That's part of why I was happy to appropriate one of them for my Lords of Waterdeep project -- Azure Bonds said one was dressed as a Waterdhavian courtesan, and in Song of the Saurials, Zhara mentioned that one was a "lady of some power in Waterdeep" (quoting from memory). I named that one Sapphire and connected her to my psionicist Lord, Sierkan Dahl.

But getting closer to the original topic... If the Alias vessels are indeed immortal, then we still could meet 8 of them as "new" characters. It's also possible that in the century since then, someone else has figured out how to do the same thing and made new ones.
Markustay Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 16:26:24
IIRC, both Bob and Ed were initially against the timejump (maybe because they still had stories to tell... or maybe just because they are both very smart men).

Regardless (because I don't want to go down that road yet-again), I do have hope for the 5 Realms, despite how I may come off. The reason for this is that I am hoping they allow authors to write stories 'set in the past'. Thus far, I have not seen that, AT ALL, and if all these authors are porting' their favs into the 4e+ realms... well... thats just a VERY bad sign.

I have no intention of reading anything set post 1400 DR, so if thats their plan, they can leave me out. That is NOT "support for all eras", that is just some corporate hyperbole BS. I want to read about my favorite characters when they were alive, not in some sort of 'after death' resurrection scenario, set in a world I neither recognize nor care for. That might be their idea of a compromise, but for me, thats no compromise as at all - its just putting some tasty sauce over a smelly fish.

I WILL continue to buy (good) gaming material, but I need to see true 'support for all eras' in the novel line if they want me back on that end of things. Then again, after my recent trip to the bookstore, even if I wanted to, I think that door has closed.
SirUrza Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 16:21:08
He definitely wasn't finished and putting them in that pocket realm was just his way of buying time and cheating death IMHO.
Seravin Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 16:13:49
Flesh to Stone and then a century later Stone to Flesh would have been a good way to keep some characters alive past the time jump. Or you could just have them sleep for 20 years (The Last Threshold) or get locked in a magic hand mirror (or however Mirt survived) and spring out .

I hear you Markustay, but I give Bob slack on The Companions, because it was well written (especially the Regis parts) and I don't think he had finished telling the tale of Regis and Catti-Brie when the Spellplague/Time-jump was forced on him.
Markustay Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 13:33:21
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek

One NPC somehow catapulted over a century in the future? Strane things happen in the Realms.

Two NPCs somehow catapulated over a century into the future? Hm, a strange coincidence of strange things.

Three or more NPCs ...?
While I completely agree with your sentiment (I found Mirt's return extremely 'jarring'), it wouldn't be so bad if they connected at least some of them together, in one event. Having each with his/her own deus ex machina would be awful, but lets say a bunch of them were somehow 'frozen' (or turned into statues, etc), and then freed, that would be okay, I guess. Not great, but a hell of a lot better then a host of separate 'coincidences'.

Truly hate the return of the Companions of the Hall. I will never read another RAS novel again (and somewhere I think I just heard him say "thank god!")

Loved the man's writing, but I think that well has run a bit dry of late.
Markustay Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 13:28:39
Yeah, I'd love to see Cat as the 'wise old matron' of clan Wyvernspur... with lots of little 'wyvernspurs' with an odd bloodline ability.

And somewhere in a novel about them, a cameo by her sister Alias. Don't even name her... just refer to her as 'my sister'. Yeah... that'd be AWESOME.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 11:16:46
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Wasn't Giogioni's wife (Cat?) a clone?

If yes, I think it would be interesting to get a Jeff Grubb take on the long-lived, undying matron of the Wyvernspurs.



The group built Alias together, and Phalse siphoned off what they were doing to build another dozen, including Cat, Zhara, Jade More, and my non-canon Sapphire.

They weren't exact clones; there were some minor physical differences.
Barastir Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 10:00:55
As I said, I don't like the idea of mass resurrection, or of a great time travelling plague. There are a lot of characters I'd like to see again, like Khelben, Elaith, Myrin Silverspear, and many others, but I'd rather like that 5e would have books on all eras, just like Star Wars, as it was discussed some time ago. So, new stories with Khelben would be from his - vast and rich - past, and new Elaith stories could be in the time between the last novel in which he appeared and his yet not published (as far as I know) demise, for example.
The Sage Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 07:03:17
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Wasn't Giogioni's wife (Cat?) a clone?
I'm going from memory... but I think Cat was a duplicate of Alias.
Jeremy Grenemyer Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 06:39:34
Wasn't Giogioni's wife (Cat?) a clone?

If yes, I think it would be interesting to get a Jeff Grubb take on the long-lived, undying matron of the Wyvernspurs.
The Sage Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 02:40:01
I won't pick and choose who I'd like back.

I'd simply say that so long as the lore and backstory supporting the return of a particular character was sound, then I'd welcome any and all of the lost characters to back into the land of the living.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 23:38:23
Yeah, the issue of whether or not Alias and her sisters actually age is a good one... Given that Finder was involved in her construction and wanted to preserve his music forever, it is entirely possible that the Alias vessels are effectively immortal.

The flip side is that we know they are capable of bearing children who appear to age normally, so maybe only Flattery was immortal, and Alias and her sisters aren't... I'd really love to get Jeff Grubb to address that one.
Ayrik Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 22:42:26
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

The evil Fey'ri, most importantly the Dlardrageth family.



Considering their elven heritage, there's not even a need to explain their survival -- they can easily live thru a century or two.

Considering their fiendish heritage, they can easily live even longer.

Alias is a construct, technically described as an Automaton back in 2E lore, before 3E lore formalized some rules for the category. True, she was bestowed part of a living (saurial) soul, so perhaps she might age and die (at least in a manner similar to saurials), but she was also fashioned from a lich‘s magic, a bit of Moander‘s/Finder‘s divine energy, and a powerful artifact. I would argue that she should be ageless (as a human “adult“) and thus still in the Realms - unless she met a violent or accidental death.
sfdragon Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 22:06:00
Khelben Arunson the elder
Wooly Rupert Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 21:15:55
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

The evil Fey'ri, most importantly the Dlardrageth family.



Considering their elven heritage, there's not even a need to explain their survival -- they can easily live thru a century or two.

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