| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 11:55:14
Hi guys...
Preparing for a mage dual of sorts with a friend of mine, I was looking into the whole Gate thing. After reading up on it I found this to be a very powerful spell and one I have never used for some reason. Anyways the problem is, that is says that it can be used to call extraplanar creature.
As a human wizard on the material plane how do know wich creatures fall into this category? Or can I simply call any creature?
Im personally thinking that if the creature has the outsider and/or extraplanar sub-race, it is then posible to "call in" with the spell Gate.
Can anyone help settle this matter?
Thanks |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 09:09:13
For this dual en particular, my mage knows what I know. So I will probably be gating solar or a Dream Larva... Or if I think I’m in real trouble a Hecatoncheires.
If I were to use Gate in game, it would surely be based around the knowledge of my character, and en the casting around some form of check.
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 08:53:37
Ahhh, i get it, thats funny. I will have to remember that one. An outsider doesnt have to eat |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 01:12:43
A good context for assessing the powers and limitations of Gate can be found in AD&D 1E PHB spell lists - along with various summoning and binding spells like Truename, Trap the Soul, Soulwrack, etc. These spells were abolished in 2E, although they did reappear in some Planescape lore.
Basically, Gate just opens two-way portals and connections. A wizard who has no knowledge of planeslore or who hasn‘t researched his fiend phonebook will probably run into difficulties, not the least of which is that powerful planars often have the power to gate in more of their own kind. Attempts to contact deities and powerful creatures (like Asmodeus) can usually be ignored or redirected by the target. One example in the novels was an attempt to summon a moderately powerful devil, who due to shifts in political structures and alliances in the Nine Hells, to which the fiend‘s new master (Mephistopheles) chose to respond.
Just remind your players that gates operate on both sides, and random gates will eventually connect to something/somebody powerful and unexpected.
Incidentally, Planar characters (those native to the planes, not Primes who originate in “normal“ worlds) are usually able to avoid planar gates and portals, and are often annoyed by persistent summons and natterings from clueless Primes. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 17:29:03
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I wasnt talking about a cow that becomes an outsider through a transformation for instance.
Merely that when someone dies they become a petitioner to the plane that they end up on (i realise this goes against the great tree or whatever planar cosmology they use, im just talking about great wheel stuff).
I see no reason why this cannot extend to animals, or any creature as long as it was alive on the material plane ay one point. They could all end up somewhere and thats why the infinite outer planes are alive with inhabitants.
Of course these petitioners dont last forever, they are eventually absorbed into the plane and new ones arrive as more beings on the material plane die.
Thats kind of why i view gods and the outer planes as parasitic organisms.
But thats just my fictional universe, everyone probably has their own rules.
No biggie, I was just playing with you about "a devil's got to eat"... because they don't.
Realistically though, mundane animals, I'd personally have all their souls going to the beastlands, but at the same time, I know their were things like fiendish hawks, etc.... |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 15:49:13
I wasnt talking about a cow that becomes an outsider through a transformation for instance.
Merely that when someone dies they become a petitioner to the plane that they end up on (i realise this goes against the great tree or whatever planar cosmology they use, im just talking about great wheel stuff).
I see no reason why this cannot extend to animals, or any creature as long as it was alive on the material plane ay one point. They could all end up somewhere and thats why the infinite outer planes are alive with inhabitants.
Of course these petitioners dont last forever, they are eventually absorbed into the plane and new ones arrive as more beings on the material plane die.
Thats kind of why i view gods and the outer planes as parasitic organisms.
But thats just my fictional universe, everyone probably has their own rules. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 15:40:19
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
So you could encounter a hellish version of a cow on the nine hells (a devil's got to eat after all).
From Monster Manual glossary section on outsiders
Outsiders need to breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (but can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep
NOTE: native outsiders are beings of the material plane who have become outsiders and can be raised/resurrected, etc... |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 13:06:30
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I do appreciate any comments on this, but this is only for a friendly mage dual offgame. So we are sticking to the rules as written for this one. And heres the problem. I'm unsure how to determine whether or not I can call a creature through the gate. Can I call ANYTHING or does it need to have the outsider sub-type or the extraplanar sub-type... ?
You call call any creature in that plane, it does not need to be outsider sub-type or extraplanar sub-type it only needs to be in the plane at the time of the call. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 12:52:51
I do appreciate any comments on this, but this is only for a friendly mage dual offgame. So we are sticking to the rules as written for this one. And heres the problem. I'm unsure how to determine whether or not I can call a creature through the gate. Can I call ANYTHING or does it need to have the outsider sub-type or the extraplanar sub-type... ?
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 12:47:23
Gate is an insanely powerful spell as it allows two way travel between planes with only a paltry casting time (and can be dismissed by the caster).
So straight away i changed the casting time to be 1 minute to prevent savvy players from calling a gate under a tarrasque or any other powerful individual and plonking him in the plane of xxxx and then closing the gate.
I dont view the planes as containing only those creatures listed as existing on that plane (the diversity would be incredibly low). I believe the manual of the planes detailed petitioners that were essentially dead creatures from the material plane; in the case of outer planes, and i guess elemental themed creatures for the inner planes.
So you could encounter a hellish version of a cow on the nine hells (a devil's got to eat after all).
When you open the gate i have it that the caster has no control over what comes through (other than he can try to dismiss the gate in time - opposed initiative check should take care of that).
If your caster knows the true name of a creature on that plane then he can call them and they are much more likely to respond (may not be a positive response though). Otherwise just calling the creature by a name may get their attention. But anything could wander through that gate and do whatever takes it's fancy.
It would help for a caster to scry the plane in question first and pick a spot to open the gate to, otherwise it would just open at a random point.
I have a variant of summoning where casters always call the same creature (they have a list of creatures that they learn - like spells). This allows the summoned creature to gain experience and be armed and armoured etc (providing they can call the creature not just summon). So in order to summon this creature they must know its true name which would aid in getting its attention through the gate.
Anyway thats just my two cents on how i would run a gate spell but i have never run a campaign to a point where the party were powerful enough to use one. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 12:34:19
Well it appears to read that you can call anyone or creature on a chosen plane. If you happen to know a friend NPC is in the plane of fire you could call that NPC.
In general however in combat the call is for creatures not know to you that normally live in the selected plane. Fire salamanders for example are known to live in the plane of fire. Certain elementals of course live on their respective planes of elements.
One wizard clearly would either scry or visit the planes in order to know what lives there. There of course records and history recorded on some knowledge of the at least nearer planes that most wizards would learn while in the process of learning magic in general and spells like gate more specifically. |
