| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 02:37:15
So Elist sacrificed herself and saved a few dark elves, now those that belived in her are saved but have no god .
What happens to them on these issues
Their goddess is dead, where do they go to , if they refuse to convert to the other elven gods they may have felt spurned by and kept worshiping Elist, would they go to the wall of the faithless?
Was any mention of them done in 4e supplements?
Would the other gods/elves be welcoming to them as worshipers or would they spurn them as being tainted by being saved by another goddess?
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 25 Jul 2013 : 19:20:27
Like a memory crystal? I smell me some psionics here not magic. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Jul 2013 : 19:14:05
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
It's in the Blackstaff novel, by Steven Schend. I still remember him getting allowed into Arvandor. Maybe he chose to keep warding the Blackstaff Tower, tho.
I think Blackstaff Tower is a 4e FR novel (although I'm not sure about that).
It is a 4E novel. I believe that the Tower keeps "copies" of prior Blackstaves, and not their actual souls. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 25 Jul 2013 : 18:41:26
Though, looking at the reviews for it on Amazon, a lot of people don't seem to like it much... |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 25 Jul 2013 : 18:36:48
Oh, okay, yeah I haven't read that one. I did read Blackstaff Tower, but I can't remember if Khelben was mentioned or not. And it is an 4e novel, part of the Waterdeep novels. It wasn't that engaging to me though, so that might be why I don't remember it well. I may have to check out Blackstaff |
| Irennan |
Posted - 25 Jul 2013 : 18:11:49
It's in the Blackstaff novel, by Steven Schend. I still remember him getting allowed into Arvandor. Maybe he chose to keep warding the Blackstaff Tower, tho.
I think Blackstaff Tower is a 4e FR novel (although I'm not sure about that). |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 25 Jul 2013 : 17:52:54
I think it might have to be more than mere lip service. There probably has to be some sincerity involved. Like, if I was praying to Tymora for luck, I'd have to really mean it, not just saying it in passing.
In regards to Khelben's death, where can I find info on it? What is the Black Tower book? If it is mentioned in the Elminster books, then that would explain why I don't know, as I am behind in that series. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 21:57:54
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
According to Black Tower book , he goes the way of R.A.S Cleric and roams as a spirit of his place of haunting.
I thought he was allowed into Arvandor after he sacrificed himself to restore that Miyeritari city.
I guess I was wrong. |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 21:52:13
According to Black Tower book , he goes the way of R.A.S Cleric and roams as a spirit of his place of haunting. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 20:16:35
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Apology accepted 
Oh, okay I think I may have misunderstood what you meant about the Wall. So you`re saying that because they no longer have a goddess, they will be put on the Wall, and that is why they are being robbed of choice?
Not really. If they choose to keep following Eilistraee (It is a quite likely eventuality) -say- in the attempt to get her back, the Wall will eat them no matter what Corellon wants, because they ''technically'' are faithless. For this reason the brownies are being robbed of the choice to stick with their goddess.
Anyway -now that you point it out- if they happen to worship other deity besides Eilistraee, the Wall won't touch them. Funny how mere lipservice can be enough to escape this stupid device.
@Silverwolfer
Well, considering that Khelben -who had elven blood- had to give away his life in order to get allowed into Arvandor, I'd say that non elven followers of Eilistraee are pretty much on their own. |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 19:50:01
Another thing to ask, Elistree had non elf followers, up to and INCLUDING half orcs. How does the big boss elf feel about allowing half orcs into his elven paradise? |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 18:28:55
Oh, to add. If that is what you were referring to, I don`t think they will end up on the Wall just because E is gone. The Wall is for the Faithless and the False. IIRC, not having a patron deity doesn`t automatically make you a candidate for the Wall. Many Faeruanians pay homage to more than one deity (such as Chauntea for crops, Tymora for luck). A soul is taken in by the deity who sees their ideology in that soul. So, the former E's would be taken in by another deity who is either similar to Eilistraee, or who sees his/her ideologies in an individual "brownie" be it one of the Seldarine or someone else. Therefore, I don't think they are robbed of choice, but that is just my take. I think an elf who was deemed Faithless and False would end up on the Wall just like anyone else.
Sorry if I misundevrstood again, but that just occurred to me, so I wanted to add it |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 18:15:25
Apology accepted
Oh, okay I think I may have misunderstood what you meant about the Wall. So you`re saying that because they no longer have a goddess, they will be put on the Wall, and that is why they are being robbed of choice? |
| Irennan |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 08:13:06
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
The Arvandor thing was because of the discussion about the Wall. My point was that they'd go to Arvandor, not the Wall, and as I said, E's realm was connected to Arvandor, anyway. Since we were pondering what would happen to her followers now that she is gone, and we were talking about the Wall. What happens to their souls is part of the discussion, so that's why I mentioned it.
I wasn't saying that it was OT. I meant that the situation didn't change for them because they've always been allowed in Arvandor anyway (Eilistraee's realm is in Arvandor, according to 3e FR lore; and is still intact after LP) and eventual changes wouldn't have really mattered (even more so because their efforts aren't focused towards getting a better afterlife).
quote:
And like I said, I don't think Corellon would forbid any of the dark elves from worshiping a deity outside the Seldarine if they chose, so it's not like they're robbed of choice. Of course I want Eilistraee and Vhaeraun back in the game (and not just D&D), and I'm highly disappointed that WotC doesn't want to have anything to do with them.
Yeah, I got that. What I meant is that I don't think that the Wall wouldn't catch the elven souls who fit its criteria just because Corellon decided that they should go to Arvandor. Brownies worshipping Eilistraee surely meet the requirements for being buried there, even if her realm is still present (so, in a sense, they are robbed of choice, not because of Corellon tho). This is my take on the ''elves get special treatment'' matter.
Btw, my apologies if I sounded rude to the point of being misunderstood about the first part, it absoultely wasn't my intention to be.
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| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 03:54:04
The Arvandor thing was because of the discussion about the Wall. My point was that they'd go to Arvandor, not the Wall, and as I said, E's realm was connected to Arvandor, anyway. Since we were pondering what would happen to her followers now that she is gone, and we were talking about the Wall. What happens to their souls is part of the discussion, so that's why I mentioned it.
And like I said, I don't think Corellon would forbid any of the dark elves from worshiping a deity outside the Seldarine if they chose, so it's not like they're robbed of choice. Of course I want Eilistraee and Vhaeraun back in the game (and not just D&D), and I'm highly disappointed that WotC doesn't want to have anything to do with them. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 03:07:57
I don't get what's all this fuzz about the Arvandor thing. Eilistraee's realm (the Hill of the Dancing Moon or smth) -the place where her followers go- has been part of Arvandor since the beginning of 3e AFAIK, so I don't see eilistraeens actually giving a crap about being ''allowed'' into the elven paradise, since nothing would truly change (and they wouldn't care anyway, since Eilistraee's domain sounds like a cool place to live no matter where it is...).
Also their whole point isn't even getting a better afterlife, but forging their ''place'' (symbolically speaking) in the world for their people (as in the drow) to live free...
Anyway my point was that the Wall wouldn't care about what Corellon decides for the DE but what they actually do. If they keep worshipping Eilistraee (and I think it's not unlikely), they're in trouble. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 02:30:50
@Lothlos: I don't think followers of Mystra would go to the Wall just because their goddess is dead, because they had a goddess prior to her destruction. It does beg the question of what would happen to their souls though.
In regards to what E's followers want, they would ultimately want their goddess back, but honestly, Arvandor--and Corellon or another of the Seldarine--would be the next best thing, IMO, especially considering Eilistraee had a connection to Arvandor, anyway, I don't think Corellon is going to forbid Eilistraee and Vhaeraun's followers from worshiping a god different from him, but at least he took them from Lolth's clutches. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 23 Jul 2013 : 22:04:39
quote:
Originally posted by Lothlos
So I am wizard I died in the Spellplague, so Mystara is dead now (but she wasn't 20 seconds ago), does my soul go to the Wall?
This thread needs a good Pink Floyd reference somewhere.
I think in this case when Corellon took over the game for Eilistraee he took on her worshipers (mtcw).
Thing is, what do the followers want? What if they want to keep following Eilistraee (or, you know, being drow --not that they got to choose about this, tho--) no matter what (and tbh, I wouldn't say that this is unlikely)? What if they don't care about the guy who had the genial idea of dooming their people?
Also, I believe the Wall only cares about what mortals do. |
| Lothlos |
Posted - 23 Jul 2013 : 21:44:39
So I am wizard I died in the Spellplague, so Mystara is dead now (but she wasn't 20 seconds ago), does my soul go to the Wall?
This thread needs a good Pink Floyd reference somewhere.
I think in this case when Corellon took over the game for Eilistraee he took on her worshipers (mtcw). |
| Irennan |
Posted - 23 Jul 2013 : 20:51:26
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Because without the wall, some vague but potentially cosmos-collapsingly bad stuff will happen.
They should've come up with something more compelling.
quote:
But of course the elves get special treatment. The elves always get special treatment.
Like to see them escape the wall if they were physically nailed to it.
TBH, I don't think that the Wall actually cares about what Corellon wants to do with the dead brownies' souls... |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 23 Jul 2013 : 19:54:38
Because without the wall, some vague but potentially cosmos-collapsingly bad stuff will happen.
But of course the elves get special treatment. The elves always get special treatment.
Like to see them escape the wall if they were physically nailed to it. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 23 Jul 2013 : 10:26:35
quote:
It's stuff like this that makes me wonder why the wall of the faithless is even a thing any more.
It's the concept itself of the Wall that makes me wonder why any god but Myrkul would keep it there...
quote:
]Elves have their own goddess of death and it's not myrkal or kelemvor. It's sehanine.
The Wall of the Faithless doesn't care about that, it swallows w/e soul meets its criteria.
quote:
Wasn't Sehanine revealed to be an aspect of Selune?
True, and the fact that Sehanine is related with this matter while Selune (AFAIK) isn't shows that merging stuff for the sake of simplicity is not always a smart thing to do. |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 23 Jul 2013 : 06:39:17
quote:
Originally posted by jerrod
Elves have their own goddess of death and it's not myrkal or kelemvor. It's sehanine.
Wasn't Sehanine revealed to be an aspect of Selune? |
| jerrod |
Posted - 23 Jul 2013 : 06:10:43
Elves have their own goddess of death and it's not myrkal or kelemvor. It's sehanine. |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 22 Jul 2013 : 07:13:30
Umm it is not an idea, it is a real thing, that was created by Myrkul (supposedly older then him) and has been maintained by every god of the dead from that time. |
| jerrod |
Posted - 22 Jul 2013 : 04:40:20
Wall of the faithless is a human idea for souls.elves dnt have souls.they have spirits |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 22 Jul 2013 : 01:11:39
It's stuff like this that makes me wonder why the wall of the faithless is even a thing any more. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 21:59:42
They go to Arvandor. IIRC, Eilistraee's realm was always at least somewhat a part of Arvandor, anyway, and when Vhaeraun died, Eilistraee took his followers, dead and alive |
| jerrod |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 05:35:55
They would go to arvandor,but if they didn't want to go there they can still go to svartalheim. If they go to svartalheim they wouldn't have a divine protector to keep them safe from fiend raids or being pressed into service by other gods and creatures of that or other planes.though eventualy they would still merge with the plane.I believe corellon grants the masked lady's clerics their spells. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 03:41:45
Well 2nd Edition listed deities or powers as Callarduaran Smoothhands, Haela Brightaxe, Lurue, Mystra, the Seldarine, Selune so clearly followers would tend to follow one of these powers, the Seldarine of course being the collective description of the "Good" Elves deities such as Corellon.
Which they might choose might be more controlled by what they specialized in what other deity that they followed most closely, smit work, hunter, music, etc.
Some clearly might try to bring Eilistraee back by refusing to believe she is dead, an interloper deity might even give those Clerics access to spells. Others clearly might turn to other deities that most closely represent their interests. Human deities of course a likely choice as some Eilistraee followers were human. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 02:58:04
They are supposed to go to Arvandor, cause Corellon decided so. No 4e material mention them, AFAIK.
Gods never turn back followers. |
