| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 03:37:01
In Brimstone Angels: Lesser Evils thread, I commented the time jump (don't worry, Erin, I still trust you  ). Currently, the majority of the Realms novels are taking place in 1478-9. The Sundering will be happening, IIRC, in 1486. It sounds like we will be meeting some new characters, but for characters with already established stories. such as Drizzt, Elminster, and Farideh, that's...quite a jump. I know we had the time jump during the Spellplague, but considering some stories are currently going, suddenly having them skip ahead several years seems...what's the word...an interruption of the flow. So much is already happening in these characters' lives, and there could be a lot that happens between now and then that could make a story(s) in and of itself.
I realize the reason for this are probably NDA. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BEAST |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 20:13:49
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
What was Wulfgar's ill-fated wife's name? 
She did stumble out into a snowstorm with a baby... she may not have been drunk, but she sure was as stupid as a drunk (and spent most of her life in a bar).
Delenia "Delly" Curtie.
She was a bar wench, with a heart of gold.
I didn't like that she waffled from flake to wise wifey and back so much. 
(Only after I typed up this whole response did I realize that you were likening Delly to Snooki!)
At any rate, it was Khazid-hea that corrupted her. The sword made her take the toddler (not really a baby anymore, at that point) out into the winter weather. And the sword made her hand the child over to another woman (Cottie Cooperson).
quote:
One of the weirdest things RAS ever did: "I'm done with this baby... you guys can have it back now". Just really, really strange, IMO.....
He grew bored with his child?
Well, it's not exactly like he took her in as his own child in the first place out of boredom! He did it to spare her life from the tyrannical Lord of Auckney.
Yes, over time, he grew attached to her.
Remember, before he returned her to her birth mother, Wulfgar and Catti-brie did go out to Nesmé and retrieve the child from Cottie. Wulf didn't simply turn his back on the child or release her out of boredom or disinterest, but rather, he pursued her.
The problem, though, was that Colson reminded him of Delly, who had just died.
Delly was gone from Wulf's life. And Cat had just became a big item, for reals, with Drizzt, so she was absolutely no longer an option. Wulf had a lot of grief and heartache all around--and the responsibility of a baby (well, a 5-year-old child) in his lap.
That reminds me: Bob and his editors seem to have slipped up a bit when it comes to age continuity for the child, Colson. She was born at the end of The Spine of the World, which took place in 1365
through 1366 DR. She seems to have been born right around the vernal equinox, 1366. This means that she would've been a full 5 years old in "The Hunter's Blades Trilogy", set in 1371 DR. And she would've turned 6 in The Orc King, set in 1372 DR. But Bob never seemed to have stopped thinking of her as a baby!
In order to retcon this, I theorize that Colson may have been very small for her age, and possibly somewhat developmentally challenged. Regardless of her age, people may have felt tremendous sympathy for her, because of her condition, and continued to view her as "the baby" for quite a long time. If so, then this might've posed an even greater burden for Wulfgar, as a new widower. So he may have had that weighing on him, in The Orc King, as well.
Ultimately, what did it, though, was hearing all this nonsensical talk of peace with the orcs. That could not stand. Wulfgar could not abide by that. He had to leave Mithral Hall, and return to something more familiar, and less full of topsy-turvy emotions. He had to go back to Icewind Dale.
"I'm goin' back to ID, to ID, to ID . . ." 
But is that a good place to bring a disabled little girl? 
quote:
I know alcoholics are selfish, but that's pretty damn extreme (and for anyone who wants to comment on it not 'really' being his... you try raising a kid as your own for awhile and then giving it up). I was very... inhuman.
It could be argued lots of different ways.
Wulf could be said to be selfish for leaving the Hall and heading off to the Dale, and handing Colson over to her birth mother, Meralda, in Auckney.
But he could also have been said to have been selfish if he had taken the disabled little girl with him to the dangerous land of Icewind Dale, without a mother. Isn't that irresponsible and reckless? Wouldn't it be better for him to remain in the more temperate clime of the Hall, with the strength of the dwarf clan and the Companions to help out?
And it could be argued that it would've been selfish of him not to have handed Colson back over to her birth mother, when Meralda was a lady of a small fiefdom, with a well-to-do husband to help support them, while Wulfgar was very, very single. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 17:32:48
All right, I'll take steps to do that! I can think of some other FR series that need sequels too (Unbroken Chain comes to mind). IMO, and I mean no offense, is it's bad for business if WotC lets series go unfinished, because unless they stop printing them, those books are still on the market. It makes people wonder when the next book will go out, and then they are disappointed to learn there might not be on. Surely there is room for other stories in the spaces between when the Sundering novels come out. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 17:10:34
On this basic point about Drizzt/Cattie-Brie, jeez, guys. Way to judge another relationship by your own hangups on the subject. 
Our world doesn't really have an analog that fits, because we don't have a race of beings that ages like elves do. They are fully capable of seeing mortal races changing from child to youth to adult to venerated elder, and accepting them as such. Elves don't lock people into a particular age category in their minds.
When I first met my friend's brother, he was 7, and for the rest of his life, he's 7 to me, even if he's in his mid 20s now. If I were an elf, however, the 20 years that I've known him would seem like little more than a few months, and he's not going to live much longer (relatively). In order to see him as anything other than a pre-evolved animal, I would have to accept that he goes through changes and become an adult.
I think Cattie-Brie did *plenty* to prove herself a self-actualized adult woman, rather than a child . . . several books before Drizzt actually mustered himself to make the overtures. It's unfair of us, the readers, to lock her into the "child" box simply because that's where we first met her.
Also, in actual history, marriages between aged gentlemen and much younger women were extremely common, and lords who married their young wards (who they'd known from childhood) were also quite common with no stigma attached.
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
It really depends on the story, I suppose. A jump in time would be tough for some stories but actually a good thing for others. If/when Shadowbane continues to book 4, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how I plan to handle it.
I hope it's a when! FR has enough unfinished stories, IMO
Thank you for saying so. If you're interested in helping to make that happen, check out my ideas for supporting the series on my website.
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Yes, but will it be printed? I would really like to read your work, but e-book form exclusively? Argh. 
I have no control over that, alas. If you feel strongly about it, direct feedback to WotC.
Though we shouldn't say *exclusively*--the audiobook versions of Downshadow, Shadowbane, and Shadowbane: Eye of Justice are all available on Audible.com.
quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Do they have a rough timetable for actual release yet?
The Companions will come out in August 2013. The Godborn is October 2013. The Adversary is December 2013. Then I'm fairly sure that The Reaver is February 2014, The Sentinel is April 2014, and The Herald is June 2014.
Best, Erin
Thanks Erin!
We don't know about novels for the second half of 2014 or 2015. I'm hoping WotC comes knocking on my door, but they're preoccupied with the Sundering books at the moment.
Cheers |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 16:32:50
What was Wulfgar's ill-fated wife's name?
She did stumble out into a snowstorm with a baby... she may not have been drunk, but she sure was as stupid as a drunk (and spent most of her life in a bar).
One of the weirdest things RAS ever did: "I'm done with this baby... you guys can have it back now". Just really, really strange, IMO.....
He grew bored with his child? I know alcoholics are selfish, but that's pretty damn extreme (and for anyone who wants to comment on it not 'really' being his... you try raising a kid as your own for awhile and then giving it up). I was very... inhuman. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 16:02:38
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
WE split up 7 years ago, and she is 5 years my junior. I'm 49 and she hasn't had a birthday yet this year, so if we do all the math, that means....
I left her when she was 37. Talk about coincidences.
OK. So...IOW...you don't much care what she thinks about the notion that 37=gross!
Sorry if my asking was insensitive and nosy, bud.
quote:
I actually have nothing against big age differences, it just gets a little strange when you were a family friend - sort of 'an uncle' - and then your dating. I have plenty of friends with grown daughters now, and I can't even think of them that way (they are still kids to me).
I actually know where you're coming from. As my own little cousins have grown up and matured/developed, in my mind, they still have little baby-faces. And as they talk about school or work (or even their own kids!), I can't help but hear a faint hint of their old little kids' voices mixed in.
Do you remember that Friends ep where Ross dreamt of his own mom, dressed in the Princess Leia slave-girl outfit, but with an Abraham Lincoln beard?
It's an uncomfortable chimera like that!
quote:
And now this tangent has got me thinking of Ten Towns as FR's version of 'The Jersey Shore'. They even both have drunken barbarians.
Who's Realms Snooki?
"I'm not drunk! I'm just tryin' to find tha beach!"
*trip, smash, fall* |
| Old Man Harpell |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 16:01:52
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
It really depends on the story, I suppose. A jump in time would be tough for some stories but actually a good thing for others. If/when Shadowbane continues to book 4, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how I plan to handle it.
Cheers
Yes, but will it be printed? I would really like to read your work, but e-book form exclusively? Argh. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 02:10:08
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
I wonder what Mrs. MT thinks about your notion that 37 = granny = gross?
WE split up 7 years ago, and she is 5 years my junior. I'm 49 and she hasn't had a birthday yet this year, so if we do all the math, that means....
I left her when she was 37. Talk about coincidences.
I actually have nothing against big age differences, it just gets a little strange when you were a family friend - sort of 'an uncle' - and then your dating. I have plenty of friends with grown daughters now, and I can't even think of them that way (they are still kids to me).
And now this tangent has got me thinking of Ten Towns as FR's version of 'The Jersey Shore'. They even both have drunken barbarians. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 01:40:30
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So he's a granny chaser? Double gross!
Haha. Nope: no children, thus, no grandchildren, therefore no granny!
I wonder what Mrs. MT thinks about your notion that 37 = granny = gross? 
quote:
But I wasn't a grown man,
What does that have to do with anything? Although he was technically grown (or is a 40-ish elf grown?), he wasn't with her, then.
No, you weren't a grown man when she was 9. You were ~9. Ew, gross! How inappropriate that you would ever come to be with her!
quote:
who knew her then
There's nothing wrong with him knowing her, when she's 9. You know your own kids at a young age, right? Knowing a kid is completely harmless.
When she was 37, she was essentially a different person.
(And she wasn't related, either.)
quote:
(and also my best friend's daughter - its just icky on several levels).
I've never understood the aversion to a friend getting involved. It would seem like if he's much of a friend at all, then he would be an ideal person for you to match your daughter up with. Who could you trust more?
OTOH, if you can't trust him, then that doesn't say much for your taste in friends. Maybe you should be focused more of fixing your own defects than on judging others? 
quote:
Then again, her father ate giant brains, making him a cannibal... buncha sickos!
OK, I got nothin'.
You're right. Bob having his dwarves channel their inner barbarians/Vikings has never sat well, with me. Yuck!
quote:
And lets not even get into Regis and his 'date rape' gem. That thing was the ultimate 'Roofie'.
Mang, ma boy Reg' lived in dem Calimport harems right in da midst of da honeys. He didn't need no magic rock, for dat! |
| ErinMEvans |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 00:15:26
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
hmmm, so I'm hearing something new here. There's a "roughly" definitive amount of time already announced between 4e and 5e? Its not a huge surprise, but it is a bit of a surprise. BTW, when are the first set of novels due to come out (because I remember hearing the 5th edition announcement maybe a year ago and the sundering announcements maybe 6 months back)? Do they have a rough timetable for actual release yet? Sorry for those who have followed this more closely to be asking these questions, but I kinda have only been following the novel lines (and only some of those) since 4E came out.
The Companions will come out in August 2013. The Godborn is October 2013. The Adversary is December 2013. Then I'm fairly sure that The Reaver is February 2014, The Sentinel is April 2014, and The Herald is June 2014.
Best,
Erin |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 00:13:00
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
They didn't actually seal the deal until she was pushing 40 (The Two Swords).
So he's a granny chaser? Double gross!
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Hey, MT, don't look now, but word is your wife was 9 years old once upon a time, too! Oh, the horror!
But I wasn't a grown man, who knew her then (and also my best friend's daughter - its just icky on several levels).
Then again, her father ate giant brains, making him a cannibal... buncha sickos!
And lets not even get into Regis and his 'date rape' gem. That thing was the ultimate 'Roofie'. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 21:27:37
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, if you look at the pic of him on the cover of the original Menzoberranzan box, he looks pretty old, and that was supposed to be before he left the city.
But he looked younger on the 1st ed. covers of The Crystal Shard and Streams of Silver.
I don't know what happened as they headed into 2E and turned him into an old man. 
quote:
Then you have to figure he's known Cattie Brie since she was about 9 or so... and things get REAAAAL creepy. Dwarves must think differently then humans, because if one of my friends started hitting on my daughter, he'd wind up in the hospital. I have to wonder if he used to bounce her on 'uncle Drizzt's knee'.
Just CREEEEEPY... I guess on some level he's still a dark Elf at heart.
Sheesh! It's not like he tried hooking up with her when she was 9! 
He was still stand-offish with her even when she turned 21 and started hitting on him (The Halfling's Gem).
They didn't actually seal the deal until she was pushing 40 (The Two Swords).
So he didn't rock the cradle. He waited till she was just hitting her prime. 
Hey, MT, don't look now, but word is your wife was 9 years old once upon a time, too! Oh, the horror!  
quote:
Then again, she did marry her stepbrother... Jerry Springer would have a field-day in FR.
Yeah, but they don't have any out-of-wedlock children to run DNA tests on, so this particular love triangle wouldn't rate!
"Wulfgar, son of Beornegar, of the Tribe of the Elk . . . you are NOT the father!"
quote:
On Topic: (sort of...)
A thought just struck me... if time is cyclic, maybe they just didn't move the timeline forward ENOUGH. In 5e they should advance it a few billion years instead... and we'd wind-up back at the OGB.
Did the Realmsian universe undergo a "Big Bang" event in its past? Is that cosmos experiencing expansion, and will it see contraction some day? Will it all begin again . . . again, again? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 17:17:20
Well, if you look at the pic of him on the cover of the original Menzoberranzan box, he looks pretty old, and that was supposed to be before he left the city.
Then you have to figure he's known Cattie Brie since she was about 9 or so... and things get REAAAAL creepy. Dwarves must think differently then humans, because if one of my friends started hitting on my daughter, he'd wind up in the hospital. I have to wonder if he used to bounce her on 'uncle Drizzt's knee'.
Just CREEEEEPY... I guess on some level he's still a dark Elf at heart. Then again, she did marry her stepbrother... Jerry Springer would have a field-day in FR.
On Topic: (sort of...)
A thought just struck me... if time is cyclic, maybe they just didn't move the timeline forward ENOUGH. In 5e they should advance it a few billion years instead... and we'd wind-up back at the OGB. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 16:07:05
If anything I feel that he is finally showing signs of growing up a little. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 06:22:05
I think it's the art style that has changed, so it makes Drizzt look younger. Also...maybe his maturity level has become "younger"? I love Drizzt, and I'm just speculating. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 06:10:14
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Drizzt is approaching the end of his second century, and he's conscious of it. He's even been described as an "old soul", at times. How is that "getting younger", MT? 
Look at the art over the years.
He got older from 1E to 2E in cover art.
Then he got way younger from 2E to 3E. And he has continued to look the same in 4E, and now 5E.
So he only regressed in apparent age for one edition change.
But that's the same number of edition changes in which he advanced in apparent age: exactly one.
I hate it when I don't get a joke because I analyze it too much! |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 05:01:56
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
It really depends on the story, I suppose. A jump in time would be tough for some stories but actually a good thing for others. If/when Shadowbane continues to book 4, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how I plan to handle it.
Cheers
I hope it's a when! FR has enough unfinished stories, IMO |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 00:12:15
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Drizzt is approaching the end of his second century, and he's conscious of it. He's even been described as an "old soul", at times. How is that "getting younger", MT?
Look at the art over the years. |
| Caolin |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 20:27:47
Sounds like a good spot for a bunch of short stories bridging the gap. Oh, that's right. It's too much of a good idea.....crud. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 20:24:23
hmmm, so I'm hearing something new here. There's a "roughly" definitive amount of time already announced between 4e and 5e? Its not a huge surprise, but it is a bit of a surprise. BTW, when are the first set of novels due to come out (because I remember hearing the 5th edition announcement maybe a year ago and the sundering announcements maybe 6 months back)? Do they have a rough timetable for actual release yet? Sorry for those who have followed this more closely to be asking these questions, but I kinda have only been following the novel lines (and only some of those) since 4E came out. |
| ErinMEvans |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 19:02:17
So at the moment, the only characters who definitely need to weather the time jump are the Sundering characters. I don't think they've said what's going to be the case with other stories. And of the Sundering books, three could be considered mid-series crossovers (Drizzt, Elminster, and Farideh). And as noted, Drizzt and Elminster, tend to be in stories that encompass years--their Sundering books may also do so. Farideh's really the only troublemaker at the moment, and I think I've got this.
Soo...I wouldn't stress too much yet. :) |
| BEAST |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 18:22:19
Drizzt is approaching the end of his second century, and he's conscious of it. He's even been described as an "old soul", at times. How is that "getting younger", MT?
Bob jumped ahead by:
- 10 years between Homeland and Exile,
- 5 years between Sojourn and The Crystal Shard,
- 5 years within TCSh,
- 6 years between Siege of Darkness and Passage to Dawn,
- a loose, malleable number of years between The Spine of the World and Sea of Swords,
- 4 years between The Orc King and The Pirate King (with a glimpse of scenes 100 years into the future),
- 8 years between TPK and The Ghost King,
- 24 years between TGK and Gauntlgrym,
- 42 years within Gaunt., and
- another 10 years within Gaunt..
Methinks RAS has demonstrated that he can handle time jumps quite fine, thank you.
("The Legend of Drizzt" practically comes off as a Realmsian equivalent to Quantum Leap, when you consider the above list!) |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 17:40:23
It really depends on the story, I suppose. A jump in time would be tough for some stories but actually a good thing for others. If/when Shadowbane continues to book 4, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how I plan to handle it.
Cheers |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 23:31:21
I'm reading Song and Swords right now (don't know why I didn't read it sooner, considering I loved Evermeet: Island of Elves, and Starlight and Shadows). Heck, I would like to see Elaine write more for the Realms, period! I miss her voice.
Anyway, I guess we'll all just have to have faith that it works out :) |
| Euranna |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 22:09:04
You definitely are not the only one Masked Mage. I just recently read the Sword and Song series and was excited for next two books associated with it. I believe thought that Elaine does not intend to try to finish either book. It does make me sad, but I understand if the story is not cooperating. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 20:16:06
I'm really hoping they have the sense to bring Elaine back for 5th E. and let her "look back in time." We know she has at least 2 partially written novels about Elaith and his Daughter. I'd be blown away if I was the only one who REALLY wanted to see those finished and published. |
| Euranna |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 19:55:48
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In Drizzt's case, he gets younger in each edition. I assume he will be a newborn come 5e.
I needed that this morning.
Also, on topic, stories can look back in time. :) I am hoping that with the "open era" of the type of books that are coming out, perhaps authors might have the chance to write novels that "look back", if their story is not done.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 14:11:53
Its happened before, between 1e and 2e, and then again between 2e and 3e (but to a much lesser degree - 3 years I think). Its really no big deal.
In Drizzt's case, he gets younger in each edition. I assume he will be a newborn come 5e. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 05:34:09
I haven't read EE yet, myself. I don't know, it just feels like some of the characters already have stories going that shouldn't just skip ahead, but that's just me. We'll just have to trust the authors. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 05:28:26
I dunno. I haven't finished Elminster Enraged yet, but if the main characters in that book survive I wouldn't mind a fast-forward of a decade to see what's become of them. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 03:51:51
For Drizzt and El, perhaps, but for others... |
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