| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| farinal |
Posted - 20 Dec 2012 : 14:06:17
I want to know if the Good Drows or Evil Elves are more rare? Anyone got an idea on this? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 02:09:45
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Actually, its the 'Chosen sacred City' of R.A. Salvatore, because according to the canon, Guallidurth is supposed to be her 'holy city'.
Menzoberranzan, for all its much-vaunted publication, is a VERY minor drow city, at best. They are self-important, but in the greater scheme of things they are quite insignificant.
I believe this was changed with 4E.
*meh*
{not directed at you, Wooly}
Eh. The 4e Menzoberranzan tome established a fairly confident basis for why the city is so important [though, not the MOST important] city in Lolth's celestial crown. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 01:48:43
TBeholder- the point I was making that in nearly all the published lore. Lolth does NOT tolerate disobedience from her followers- in fact. Her dogma even states specifically "Convert or destroy nonbeliever drow. Weed out the weak and the rebellious. Destroy impugners of the faith. Sacrifice... those who ignore the commands of Lolth or her clerics. Raise children TO PRAISE AND FEAR(emphasis mine) Lolth;... Questioning Lolth's motives or wisdom IS A SIN(emphasis mine), as is... ignoring Lolth's commands for the sake of a lover." (Faiths and Pantheons)
F&P goes on to state that "her clergy are the rulers, judges, juries, executioners, and police forces of drow society." In cities where she holds sway, she (through them) literally RULES ALL.
Demihuman Deities(2nd ed) goes even further: "The Spider Queen maintains her absolue rule over drow cities by means of her clergy, who tirelessly seek out and destroy ALL TRACES(again, emphasis is mine) of dissent, disobedience, RIVAL FAITHS(again...) or sacrilege and who ruthlessly enforce the Way of Lolth." It also says that "Males or slaves of other races who act independantly of Lolth's dictates (and those of her clerics) must be sacrificed to Lolth. Those of the faithful whose loyalty is weak must be eliminated. Children are to be raised as LOYAL WORSHIPERS(emphasis mine again) of Lolth".
From these passages we can CLEARLY see not only her stance on the subject of offering prayers to other deities, but that her entire clergy has a standing mandate to stamp them out completely! The fact that they have not yet done so is not so much a testament to the fact that her priests are lenient or lack vigilance, but the simple and obvious conclusion that those who follow other deities are just REALLY good at hiding it! However, considering the serious consequences of being found out, it's a fair assumption that most drow would not take the risk of doing so, even if they sincerely WANT to turn away from her. They are, after all, taught to FEAR her (and her clerics, of course!). In that respect, even Zak and the rebellious Spider Mage did not turn away from her faith fully, or even dare to offer prayers to other deities. Only Drizzt did that- and it earned him a death sentence from his own family!
It was pointed out that the drow named were members of noble houses. However, I'll add that in Daughter of the Drow, Liriel often hung out with several "friends" from minor houses and even commoners (The male who went fishing with her and Bythnara near the beginning of the book was a son of a wealthy commoner family.). Yet even those drow were fully faithful followers of Lolth, by all indications. And the book mentioned that House Baenre had adopted a young female from a commoner family to add to the ranks of their high priestesses. So it's not only the major houses that follow this rule, but ALL the houses that attempt to earn her favor. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Jan 2013 : 20:46:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Actually, its the 'Chosen sacred City' of R.A. Salvatore, because according to the canon, Guallidurth is supposed to be her 'holy city'.
Menzoberranzan, for all its much-vaunted publication, is a VERY minor drow city, at best. They are self-important, but in the greater scheme of things they are quite insignificant.
I believe this was changed with 4E.
*meh*
{not directed at you, Wooly} |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 05 Jan 2013 : 19:38:41
This is Lolth we're talking about. Which city is her favorite probably changes week to week. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Jan 2013 : 16:34:51
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Actually, its the 'Chosen sacred City' of R.A. Salvatore, because according to the canon, Guallidurth is supposed to be her 'holy city'.
Menzoberranzan, for all its much-vaunted publication, is a VERY minor drow city, at best. They are self-important, but in the greater scheme of things they are quite insignificant.
I believe this was changed with 4E. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Jan 2013 : 15:15:55
Actually, its the 'Chosen sacred City' of R.A. Salvatore, because according to the canon, Guallidurth is supposed to be her 'holy city'.
Menzoberranzan, for all its much-vaunted publication, is a VERY minor drow city, at best. They are self-important, but in the greater scheme of things they are quite insignificant. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 05 Jan 2013 : 15:02:57
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Almost all of the books about drow are set in Menzoberranzan which is only one smaller than average city. Cities like Sshamath, Eryndlyn, and Llurth Dreier are implied to be more multi-religious and so presumably many other cities are, too.
Llurth Dreier is an ex-Lolthite city overrun by Ghanadaur. Sshamath is an ex-Lolthite city overrun by wizards, so the religion doesn't matter much. quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Menzoberranzan probably has a greater degree of clerical involvement than most drow communities.
It's the chosen sacred city of Spider Queen, so it figures the place got to be tougher on everyone else. In less frenzied communities Lolthites may allow male underpriests and/or worship of Selvetarm - always checking that these are loyal to them as a whole, of course, but that's normal, they don't trust each other either. 
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
it says the ruling Lolth worshiping nobility were shocked how many people worshiped Kiaransalee when their civil war started which implies Drow worship other deities in secret a great deal.
Of course. Llurth Dreier was overrun in a civil war after matrons sat on their butts for too long. There's a lot of references to Vhaerunites even in Menzoberranzan - these guys are harder to fully exterminate than cockroaches. 
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I believe it's been estimated that a little over 66% follow Lolth in FR, leaving only the other 1/3 to follow anyone else- because we already know that Lolth tolerates NO worship of other deities! While it is mainly clergy that are the "fanatics", most drow also live in houses ruled by those same clergy, who would certainly not allow their households to worship anyone else, lest they fall from Lolth's favor.
Ah, not so easy. You're interpreting the number as exclusive, but is it? There are always 3 different numbers: how many claim to worship, how many worship, how many worship exclusively. I.e. from Eilistraee's 22% total and 10-12% exclusive, if you count into 1/3 only the latter, where you put the rest?
And what "tolerates no worship" practically means? The high-ups of main four's theocracies view worshippers of the other three as enemies, but that's not the same as truly exclusive worship. Again, if a whole House of Vhaerunites is wiped out, this means it existed like this for some time, and another may exist. The issue of "falling from Lolth's favor" applies only to those having it in the first place, no? Priestesses have to be dedicated, but it's the usual setup, and they are a minority even in Menzo.
It's not like in a Lolthite city a matron would lose a guard just because she knows he mentioned Selvetarm in the heat of battle, or House wizard who invoked Mystra (or Elemental lord of choice if elementalist). Such things got to happen, it's a foregone conclusion, so why ever bother as long as no one tries to formally preach, open a temple or something? Now look away from the nobles to commoners, and what can go on there?
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
That was part of the reason Drizzt was forced to leave Menzo, in fact- because his mother and sister scried on him and Zaknafein discussing their feelings about Lolth- which was considered heresy, and punishable by death! That alone shows that those who are even SUSPECTED of heresy are well-watched.
Let's also remember that these two were not exactly low profile: the weapon master and secondboy of a major noble House, in Menzo at that. And were watched by their House's high-ups who had scrying measures and literally nothing better to do with their time than playing diligent fanatics. 
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
For most, they are simply to indoctrinated with the "Lolth is all" mentaility to even question that they COULD worship anyone else. Even Liriel was shocked by the very notion of doing such. And she was raised as a wizard FIRST.
...also in two major Houses of Menzo?
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
If we were to take Greenwood's statements literally, then less than half of all drow are Lolthites
The part that needs to be taken literally is that total worship in the example is twice as much as exclusive worship. Trying to pack exclusive worship without seams, you leave no place for this shared part, of course it makes no sense. Now, if you ask "how many of them are priesthood and fanatics?" that will be it. I'd expect these numbers specifically in Eilistraee's case to be closer than with others - if they take her message seriously, they'll drop everything and start "buttnekkid moondance" or go subvert other drow. As they are interested in the surface, nonexclusive part got to include magic-related gods, Shaundakul, Waukeen if they are merchants, etc.
Now, a "non-exclusive" Vhaerunite? That's just a commoner thief or grumpy male (not necessarily noble), and they don't deal with "let's go to surface right now and hug fairy elves" issues, only their immediate interests. How many of these? Who knows, but you can't swing a snake-whip on a street without hitting a commoner or a House's soldier who "heard a rumour once..." even in Menzo, right? |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 02 Jan 2013 : 10:05:04
Your perfectly fine to disagree with me on it Neil, after all we are all entiteled to our opinions. |
| Neil |
Posted - 02 Jan 2013 : 03:09:01
Yeah, I think we all know that the inhabitants of Zhentil Keep followed a variety of faiths. I just don't agree with Lord Bane's take on the Banite faith's attitude vis-a-vis the other gods. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 02 Jan 2013 : 02:27:34
What makes you certain he made that up? I've never seen any canon info to state that the Keep's residents were ALL Banites exclusively. Certainly the leadership of the Zhentarim was, but the common folk who worked there? I highly doubt it. Unless there is PROOF that he "made it up", I'm inclined to accept his statements as plausible. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 02 Jan 2013 : 02:17:35
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Lord Bane you can't just make things up and expect people to take you seriously...
Good thing i do not take your posts sometimes serious aswell then 
Your posts about Bane's worship are things you made up that you did not even try to substantiate with evidence from realms lore of any kind. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 01 Jan 2013 : 19:26:46
Iwould imagien there would be difference between favored by lolth and a chosen by lolth.
Drizzt might actually be and very well mightbr and might not be favored by lolth as much as he might be wanted dead but tolerated by lolth and her having long term scheme about him..... |
| Neil |
Posted - 01 Jan 2013 : 16:45:20
Yeah, I think Chess had a deathbed confession, as Cyric had told him that he had killed Leira. He therefore needed a new faith to rescue him from an afterlife of Cyric, which would be fairly intolerable. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Jan 2013 : 16:16:17
Am I remembering something wrong? I think when Lord Chess died he sacrificed himself in the name of Mystra (at the end of the Avatar series). Thats not correct? Its been years since I read those novels. Something about candles... {scratches head} IIRC, he had kept his devotion to her hidden for years (which Leira probably helped with).
This tells me A) that nearly everyone worships all the gods to some degree, and B) that it is entirely possible to keep such things secret from your own god (of choice). Deities do not have the time or inclination to keep track of every last worshiper - thats what their church is for (unless you are a paranoid git like Cyric, which is probably why he is nuts - his mind is in so many places at once).
In fact, most evil gods are probably well-aware of this built-in duplicity of their faithful. Their followers wouldn't really be 'evil' if they were honest, would they? How chaotic would Drow be if they actually listened to every last tenet of Lolth's priesthood? Someone (I think Jarlaxle) even pointed out that Drizzt might actually be one of Lolth's favorites: He went to the surface, is well-respected (an often in-charge), and kills stuff constantly. Sounds like Lolths plan from the beginning. Thanks to him, folks (including other elves!) are now excepting other drow on the surface world. Talk about the perfect setup.
Gods are smarter then we give them credit for - way smarter then us as players/DMs/fans. We only see whats in front of our eyes; they see a thousand different outcomes, like a great Chess game. What seems like an odd thing for a deity to do on the surface (like allow some of their faithful to 'backslide') could mean they will reaper greater rewards in the long run. They see 'the big picture' (except for Cyric... he's a nub). |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 01 Jan 2013 : 15:38:31
I fear there is a misunderstanding, i never said Bane would punish the clergy for dealing with other gods, i was refering to the worship aspect and invoking prayers. |
| Neil |
Posted - 01 Jan 2013 : 15:02:47
Exactly. You don't have to kill everyone, just cow them with terrible displays. At any rate, I think that the intolerance of the clergy of Bane probably depends on the individual clergyman, but that Bane himself would hardly punish his clergy for dealing with the other gods in regards to their portfolios. Heck, when it came to Bhaal, Malar and Loviatar, those gods were his subordinates. |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 01 Jan 2013 : 12:05:33
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Lord Bane you can't just make things up and expect people to take you seriously...
Good thing i do not take your posts sometimes serious aswell then
@Neil: Letīs not forget that The Keep was not fully turned into a cyricist town, between running things and having actual full control is two sides of a coin and neither did they kill everyone aswell. Zhentil Keep relies on trade, especially that of the Black Network, if you "cull" those who do that work, who else will step up and run them equally efficient?
@Markus: I never questioned that Bane is smart and i never denied his agenda of taking over the world. The thing is, that the clergy would do anything to keep the faithfull in line and remind people who they owe allegiance to. Most people of Faerun are polytheistic that is true, i do not argue that, but i do not percieve Bane as one who letīs his followers freely pray to whom they wish to. We can discuss it further in PM if you like, with your examples given, or we derail the thread even further. |
| Neil |
Posted - 01 Jan 2013 : 05:50:52
Which is odd, if you think about it. I would think it would be more useful to hide your obesity from women whose company you don't pay for... |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 01 Jan 2013 : 04:59:46
Markustay do you mean he worshiped Mystra as well as other deities? I remember that Leira allowed him to hide his obesity from prostitutes... |
| Neil |
Posted - 01 Jan 2013 : 02:22:32
Are you sure? Page 120 of Forgotten Realms Adventures has a stat line for him as a triple class F3, formally a W3 and P3 (of Leira). As a minor wizard I'm sure that he would venerate Mystra. And I'm pretty sure that Cyric mocks him regarding his Leiran faith in the novel where Cyric force-converts Zhentil Keep. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Jan 2013 : 01:11:33
Lord Chess worshiped Mystra. Thats canon.
Ed has stated that most Faerûnians are polytheistic, and a Banite WOULD pray to Umberlee if on an ocean voyage, or to Bhaal to help him get an assassination right, etc. He might even be inclined to pray to Ilmatar or Lathander if his child was sick (but more likely to Talona to alleviate the symptoms).
Only priests and other agents of gods primarily worship one god, and even then there are multitudinous exceptions (like the Chosen of one god being a worshiper of a completely different one). Cyric was insane, but Bane is smart. If you want to rule the world (Bane's ultimate goal) you have to at least appear to be tolerant of other gods, else you will get crushed early-on. You can only show your true hand once you are in-charge. Priests can do whatever they want, and act intolerant, but as for Bane's 'official stance' on such matters... he probably doesn't have any (because then he has deniability when he is accused of crimes by other gods). Only an idiot god would say "slay all other god's priests", since something like that could never be kept hidden.
So I guess I just proved Cyric is an idiot.  |
| Neil |
Posted - 01 Jan 2013 : 00:57:37
If the Banites wished to turn Zhentil Keep into a one-faith city, it was certainly within their power. The Cyricists did the same, and they wielded less power than the Banites did. It also wouldn't be that hard on trade. Zhentish trade is built not on being a market town, but rather on the export of the vast natural resources of the Moonsea. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 01 Jan 2013 : 00:39:15
Lord Bane you can't just make things up and expect people to take you seriously... |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 31 Dec 2012 : 20:38:17
Zhentil Keep did not consists only of citizens who followed Bane, mind you the populace could follow all kinds of gods, they are not necessarily banite. I speak of those who follow the banite faith not the ones who tend to live in a city run by banites. Of course the banites will try to break down the other faiths within the city but as long as the populace is stubborn enough to not convert the banites canīt do much except sentencing everyone to death, which then would harm the economic aspect of the Keep, which afterall is a merchant city. Now if we look at Mintarn for example you can see a differant approach of a banite run city. |
| Neil |
Posted - 31 Dec 2012 : 18:52:23
They might hold no god to be greater than Bane, but they're definitely not monotheists. A monotheistic faith holds that there is only one god, and Bane's church doesn't make that claim. Even in Zhentil Keep, where Bane's word was law, the city was ruled (in name) by a Leiran, and the city held major temples to Loviatar and Malar, as well as smaller temples to Tempus, Umberlee, Auril and Tymora. |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 31 Dec 2012 : 15:29:27
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
Finally, there are some in the Realms who do not engage in monolatry but still hold one divine being in higher regard than all the other deities. A good example might be Banites or the people of Lantan in their reverence for Gond. These individuals would be practicing henotheism. They accept the existence of other deities, believe that those other deities are worthy of worship (unlike the individual who engages in monolatry), and may at times pray to those other deities themselves. However, overwhelmingly they'd embrace and pray to one deity who'd they view supreme and above all others.
Banites do not hold other gods worthy of worship, it goes against the dogma of Bane to have other gods besides him. Bane is monotheistic and seeks it with him being the only one worshipped. Banites acknowledge that there are other gods but they believe that Bane in the end will dominate them all. A banite would never pray to another god/goddess out of fear for risking the wrath of Bane and his clergy unless it is needed to uphold a cover to further the plans of the Black Hand. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 31 Dec 2012 : 15:10:09
What about the generous dwarves, incurious gnomes, and halflings that are picky eaters? |
| Neil |
Posted - 31 Dec 2012 : 14:52:27
That's a good and well-reasoned post, and I can agree with big chunks of it. Regarding the drow and their slaves though, I think you're overlooking the racial nature of religion in the realms. I can't really think of any universal deities in the realms. Ilmater appears as a human and is worshipped by humans. The drow worship deities that appear as drow (and Ghaundahar, out of sheer perversity), and their slaves worship their own deities. I always suspected that there was some kind of agreement amoungst the gods not to 'poach', although perhaps that is somewhat suspended for demihumans living in human societies.
I also think that it would be difficult to determine that only one deity was worthy of veneration, given the clear deliniation of responsibilities amoungst the gods. No matter what your station in life, you're going to end up running across the domains of more than one deity. If you want to eat something, Chauntea or Malar should be thanked, if you're trying to find some information then a prayer to Oghma would be in order, if you're looking for love then only Sune can help you, if you're trying something dangerous then it wouldn't hurt to pray to Tymora and placate Beshaba, if you're planning a sea voyage then you should give an offering to Umberlee and unless you live in the South then Auril's favour would be a good thing to have. Unless you're a follower of Cyric (which is to say a total lunatic and a complete monster), it would be hard to come to conclusion that the other gods are unworthy of worship. How can you not need their bounty? |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 31 Dec 2012 : 14:30:42
Although the Seldarine is predominantly good aligned, their elven worshippers are just as fallible as those of any other mortal race. So fanatic worship of certain aspects of a Seldarine dogma can lead to evil behaviour.
Evil worshippers of Corellon likley revel in combat, seeking to create 'beautiful death' and advocating war against N'Tel'Quess at every oportunity.
Evil worshippers of Sehanine love to outwit or befuddle everyone around them, seeking to obscure the obvious at all costs.
Evil worshippers of Solonor don't care who or what their arrows slay, as long as they can hone their hunting skill.
Evil worshippers of Hanali hate the ugly with a passion so deeply rooted, that they seek to eliminate it from their presence wherever they encounter it.
Evil worshippers of Labelas would be so enraptured by philosophies on time that they become wholly detached from the present, unable to act because they prefer contemplation and formulating the perfect advice in hindsight.
Evil worshippers of Aedrie would not care about landlocked life after a life of literally looking down on those without the ability to fly. They'd revel in forcing them and their possesions to the skies through storms and winds.
Evil worshippers of Rillifane would not posses the patience to deal with those who fell trees, especially sacred oaks and such. They rather actively plant seeds and saplings in the corpses of their foes than stand by and coax life from normal forest soils.
Evil worshippers of Fenmarel (of which there are arguably many) advocate a complete severence from social interactions, and woe anyone trying to break their isolation.
Evil worshippers of Shevarash (probably a majority of his worshippers) are sociapathic murderers of drow and everything dealing with Lolth.
Evil worshippers of Erevan are lying, stealing no-goods capable of unimaginable chaos and evil just for a laugh.
All of the above are quite likely to be favored by their patron god despite their obvious evil ways.
|
| Aldrick |
Posted - 31 Dec 2012 : 08:33:17
I want to jump in here really quickly and make a few comments, I've been wanting to speak up for the last couple of days - but have been busy!
I'm not directing my comments to anyone in particular, but rather at the discussion about religion - especially religion among the drow.
First, I want to make an important point. People speak about polytheism and monotheism as if they were some type of binary system - you either believe in and worship many gods or you only believe in and worship one! This is not how it works.
There is no monotheism in the Realms - this is an impossible belief. Everyone - EVERYONE - knows that the gods are real and that there is more than one of them. This is universal throughout all cultures. Monotheism is the belief that there is only one god. That's it. All other gods are false. In the modern world Christians and Jews for example, don't believe that Zeus ever existed. In fact, they out right reject pretty much every other deity out there on the market. They see them as false.
This is an impossible belief in the Realms because the Gods are literally real. They can and do occasionally display their power. No one walks around debating whether or not Selune is real. They -MAY- debate whether Selune and Sehanine Moonbow are the same deity, simply appearing differently to the Elves and the Humans. After all, there is only one moon, and if you have two moon goddesses - who is really the goddess of the moon? Things like this cause the development of schisms within the faiths and the formation of heresies.
Monotheism is impossible in the Realms, but what actually does exist and IS possible is monolatrism or the practice of monolatry. This is the belief that there are many gods (polytheistic in nature), but that only ONE GOD is WORTHY of worship. In other words, you can acknowledge that other divine powers exist, but only worship one of them.
It is believed by some scholars in the real world that this is how the Abrahamic religions got their start. They started with monolatry and then, over time, evolved into monotheism. In other words, they started with the belief that there were many gods, with only one god worthy of their worship, and then over time evolved their stance into "there is only one god."
You can see strong shades of this in some of the religious texts, which of course, were written in a time when polytheistic beliefs (the belief in many gods) - was actually the norm, rather than the exception like it is today.
For example: Exodus 20:5-6: "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing loving kindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."
Very much like this, Lolth is a "jealous god" who is more than happy to direct her faithful to visit pain and suffering onto - not only to the heretic themselves, but onto their families and in particular their children. A great deal of time in Drow society is spent appeasing Lolth and trying to earn her favor, because if Lolth shows her disfavor you - and all that you care about - is going to be destroyed.
I don't believe that Drow are born sociopaths. I believe that most of them live in absolute terror of their goddess, who is utterly cruel, vindictive and merciless to her faithful - and even worse to those who cross her. The absolute terror that the average Drow might feel when praying to another god would be immense, the constant fear that Lolth might be able to read your mind - that you're offering praise to another deity... that she knows what you're thinking, knows what you're feeling, and that she's just sitting there - in the shadows laughing, as you thrash about helplessly in her web.
Drow culture and society is held in check only through fear and domination of the strong over the weak. Those that hold and wield power best in Drow society probably really are sociopaths - biologically incapable of any sort of empathetic emotion. Some of the estimates I've seen for sociopaths among humans ranges between 3% to 5% - I'd wager among the drow this is likely higher, perhaps as much as 10% to 15%.
Obviously, being a sociopath doesn't mean that you're going to turn into a murderer. It just makes being a murderer easier, because a normal person would feel empathy for their victim as they suffer. A sociopath would feel nothing. This would make being a drow and having to serve Lolth much easier for a sociopath than a "normal" individual.
Lolth encourages the practice of monolatry. Neither she nor her faithful deny the existence of the other gods; many of them simply believe that she is the only goddess worthy of worship. Many of her faithful are more than happy to deal harshly with those who embrace other faiths - even in a society where embracing other faiths is allowed.
We know from the lore, as has already been discussed, that some drow worship other deities along side Lolth. I'd like to add to that, by saying that the Drow should not be limited to divine beings alone. I'm quite certain that there are many drow who placate and bargain with demons in the same way they placate and bargain with Lolth. So, while the worship of Eilistraee may not be common in a settlement, the placating of demons may take place along side the worship of Lolth. This may be accepted in some settlements - perhaps to the point of openly having shrines to those demons, to less tolerated in others (you can establish home altars, but publicly placating any other deity but Lolth will get you in trouble).
The issue is that Drow aren't really all that unified. Underdark settlements tend to be functional city-states, with their own politics and culture. Depending on any number of variables this can change how Lolth is viewed and worshiped by the Drow of that settlement.
Drow from other settlements would - most likely - view drow that worshiped and prayed to Lolth differently as heretics. Such drow would be in great danger in opposing settlements.
It should also be noted that it's impossible for the Drow not to know about other deities. The reason for this being primarily two-fold.
First, virtually all Drow engage in some form of slavery. Slaves bring with them their religious beliefs. Now, while it's highly unlikely that a Drow would ever embrace one of the deities of their slaves, it has no doubt happened on more than a few occasions. (In this way, you could potentially have a Drow worshiping Ilmater because one of the slaves he purchased happened to be a devoted follower of Ilmater, who made an impression upon him... and in a moment of need he said a quick prayer to Ilmater out of desperation, which was followed by a vision from that deity, which in turn inspired a secret conversion.)
Second, the deities themselves are real and those individuals who are capable and willing to hear the message of Eilistraee WILL (eventually, unless they are killed first) hear that message. She would eventually visit many of them in their dreams if there was no other way to contact them through mortal worshipers.
Deities such as Eilistraee and Vhaeraun would actively be reaching out to Drow who they believe are capable of hearing their message. Vhaeraun would, for example, eventually reach out to male drow who suffer and chafe under the restrictions of Lolth. Because of this it is very difficult to have drow settlements which ONLY embrace Lolth, or who never hear about other drow deities. (In fact it borders on impossible.) Lolth may be the only deity worshiped publicly in many of these settlements, but behind closed doors there may be people who try to placate other deities.
Some of them may even try and placate both Eilistraee (or Vhaeraun) and Lolth at the same time, being opportunistic in their service. For example, a male Drow may feel pulled and "called" to serve Vhaeraun, but when necessary (ESPECIALLY in public) he'd placate Lolth, doing whatever is possible to avoid suspicion and accusation. One of the ways most people do this is by becoming even more fanatical and devoted to said deity in public, while in private their faith and support of that deity is waning. This is especially true, I believe, among deities who rule through fear. Such individuals are "over compensating" for their waning belief.
Spreading out beyond drow a bit, it should be noted that the closest thing we have to monotheism in the Realms are those that worship the Adama. They believe that all the gods are simply the different masks worn by a universal deity. This belief would likely be treated as heresy in many places in the Realms. It might not get them killed (depending on the deities involved), but it would likely result in discrimination and persecution in some places.
Those who worship the Adama likely embrace pantheistic beliefs. Pantheism is the belief that everything is part of a single all-powerful spiritual being. This is actually the polar opposite of atheism, which is the rejection of divinity and higher powers. Many people envision monotheism as the polar opposite of atheism, but the truth is the monotheist and the atheist are likely to agree on a great deal - for example, as previously mentioned - they'd likely both agree that Zeus is a false deity, that he never existed. Someone who is a pantheist wouldn't exactly say that, they'd describe Zeus as humans attempting to interpret a being greater than what they could fathom. Zeus, like the god of the monotheist they would say, is simply one of the many ways of viewing the supreme being that encompasses everything in the universe.
Moving back to the Realms, it should also be noted that Lolth is not the only deity that calls for their faithful to engage in monolatry. Two other deities that immediately come to mind are Cyric and Ghaunadaur.
The Elder Eye explicitly asks its faithful: "Convert all beings to the worship of Ghaunadaur. Slay all clergy of others faiths, plunder their temples and holdings for wealth to better your own lot and to further the worship of Ghaunadaur."
Cyric is even more explicit when commanding his faithful: "Death to all who oppose Cyric. Bow down before his supreme power, and yield to him the blood of those that do not believe in his supremacy. ... Battle against all clergy of other faiths, for they are false prophets and forces who oppose the One True Way."
Do many people - especially lay people - who worship both Cyric and Ghaunadaur pray to other deities? Yes. However, a sizable chunk - especially among the clergy, would exclusively worship them. In other words, they'd engage in monolatry because that is what is commanded of them by their deity. Those who do not engage in monolatry would effectively be heretics.
Finally, there are some in the Realms who do not engage in monolatry but still hold one divine being in higher regard than all the other deities. A good example might be Banites or the people of Lantan in their reverence for Gond. These individuals would be practicing henotheism. They accept the existence of other deities, believe that those other deities are worthy of worship (unlike the individual who engages in monolatry), and may at times pray to those other deities themselves. However, overwhelmingly they'd embrace and pray to one deity who'd they view supreme and above all others.
Hopefully, I was able to shed some light on the diversity of potential beliefs even within the Realms. Just because you acknowledge and accept that there are many deities, does not mean that you automatically view all deities as equally valid and worthy of worship. This belief is just as damaging as those who pervert the Realms with monotheistic logic and thinking. |
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