| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| AlmightyPhalanx |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 06:45:56
Hey there, I'm currently running a campaign (3.5e) in Amn, and more specifically Athkatla and would like some help with a few things that are confusing me.
First off, from Lands of Intrigue:
quote:
Amns rulers, the Council of Six, act against churches in Amn only when a temple or a member of it speaks out against the Six or interferes with business at hand. Guilty parties are dealt with swiftly and with extreme prejudice, a fate that goes unquestioned in this land.
Despite this, all religions known across the Realms can be found here with temples, shrines, and holy places of all sizes. No official state religion exists, nor do elite merchant families have a consensus on the most proper gods to worship. Unless it disrupts business or the Council's will, religious freedom is paramount in Amn.
Cyric became an Amnian power with the deaths of Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal, whose worshipers Cyric took for himself, though it took years to gain any cooperation between them. The Shadow Thieves#146; influence as Cyric worshipers permeates Amnian society. Many temples of Bane fell to Cyric#146;s followers when the zealous Dark Master Tellvon Bloodshoulder, formerly of Tethyr, heard of the Banedeath in 1362 DR (a year after it started in the North). He killed or converted many high-ranking clergy to Cyric before dying himself during his crusade.
That's great and all, but it confuses me. Why would a god whos portfolio includes murder and the destruction of all other churches and religions who promote law and order (Such as Waukeen, a major religion in Amn!), be allowed in Athkatla?
Is the open worship of Cyric outlawed? Does that mean that his church and followers, while numerous and influential in the city, are all worshipers in secret?
Some clarification as to how the Cyricists fit into Athkatla's infrastructure would be great. Thank you! |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 21:33:42
Power of Faerun page 43 and it is not stated that the western tower was destroyed, only the eastern one who was the victim of a dragon attack. Also i should add that a rival cyricist temple had a hand in it and took over.
What source does the wiki show in regard of this artifact you mention? |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 17:13:24
I read on the forgotten realms wiki that the twintowers were restored by an artifact with wishes or something. Where is them being destroyed described? |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 08:52:25
The Twin Towers of the Eclipse were besieged and sacked during the Sothilisian War by selunites and other troops, maybe you want to keep that in mind if you have your game in Amn take place during that time. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 21:45:50
Jarlaxle Viconia was going to be burned by a Priest of Beshaba, openly. How often is she harassed after that? She can go in the government building, temples, etc. all with no more than a comment. Beshaba is not very nice either but she still has priests in Amn. Nobody lifted a finger to help her (goodness does not play a role, as Aerie and Kelemvor support her being burned at the stake if they are with you and Minsc opposses it... while Anomen, Jaheira, etc. don't while being neutral. ) However, Baldur's Gate 2 is not technically canon.
Cyric could be openly worshiped if they altered what they preached. They would murder people in secret, or worship him but only pay lip service. If they murdered someone (In Amn I think the authorities would only care about someone important or rich) the guilty parties would be executed. But Cyric's followers on the whole would not be destroyed because of it. Temples to Cyric exist in a lot of cities where they presumably do not run around killing everyone like Hill's Edge, Mulmaster, Calimport... Once Kelemvor and Bane become Gods (again or for the first time) they probably take over temples of Myrkul and previously Banite temples. I think under Amn Cyric is listed as one of the primary religions and people could worship him for any number of reasons. Murder and mayhem is an ideal that is not necessarily upheld and his followers can be pragmatic. Members of the Council of Six are Chaotic Evil murderers themselves and they rule Amn, I doubt it would even cross their mind to care if Cyric's followers' murder beggars or other "nobodies" in their eyes. Nobles and merchants might hire followers of Cyric to assassinate people themselves. The Mountain of Skulls is canonically a major temple North of Atkhatala, and the Twin Towers of the Eternal Eclipse to the south, and it may not be a secret to the council.
I think a lot of their preaching is to common people making them fear Cyric rather than inciting them to riots. Followers of Cyric are also supposed to be secretive... they would publicly preach fear Cyric and then privately plot the destruction of other faiths. The known temples are outside of cities, too, so they may not be openly active in cities.
The council cares about themselves and business. To them Gods like Helm, Torm, Tyr, Ilmatar, etc. might be a bigger problem then deities like Loviatar, Cyric, Bane, Beshaba, etc. Those good gods might interfer with business and the dealings of the council, too. Or even more than evil gods.
Goodness in D&D is subjective. In Mulhorand all the Churches, which are almost all good, have slaves. Do we consider slavery good in the modern world? No. But in D&D terms you can be Lawful Good and have slaves. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 19:58:39
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
BECAUSE there is religious tolerance. You can say whatever you want, but if you commit a crime based on your beliefs, then that's another story.
There are countries (at least in the RW) where belonging to one of the 'good' religions would get you into trouble. Killing sentient beings without a trial is called 'vigilante justice', and is frowned upon in most societies. Yet worshipers of Tyr, Helm, etc, execute Orcs, Drow, etc, on site on a daily basis. The difference between them and Cyric is that Cyric is honest about it... ironic, no?
I think the fact that 99+% of orcs and drow would kill people on sight is rather much a mitigating factor, and completely removes any irony from the situation. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 18:36:25
BECAUSE there is religious tolerance. You can say whatever you want, but if you commit a crime based on your beliefs, then that's another story.
There are countries (at least in the RW) where belonging to one of the 'good' religions would get you into trouble. Killing sentient beings without a trial is called 'vigilante justice', and is frowned upon in most societies. Yet worshipers of Tyr, Helm, etc, execute Orcs, Drow, etc, on site on a daily basis. The difference between them and Cyric is that Cyric is honest about it... ironic, no? |
| AlmightyPhalanx |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 18:23:51
How can a religion whos core dogma is "Destroy all other religions and false prophets, destroy all other authority" possible co-exist with others?
You have Cyricists preaching on the streets about murdering everyone who isn't a Cyricist, to a city who isn't majority Cyricist?
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| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 16:15:53
No, just think of Viconia in BG II where she was about to be burned for being drow |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 15:59:54
I do not think Drow are regarded as citizens of Amn  |
| Zireael |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 14:45:25
Well, that is Amn for you. I've always wondered if the rule applied to, say, Lloth or Vhaeraun too... |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 10:33:59
Your answer is right in the quote you made, religious freedom is paramount as long as it does not disrupt the business or the councils will.
As long as the followers of Cyric do not hinder merchants from conducting their trade and do not oppose the council(rumor has it that one of the council members is dabbling in potential Cyric worship) they are free to walk around. IŽd say they have a public display like any other deity with a temple and regular worshippers tending to it.
I know it is hard to envision to have public cyric worship when he is mostly persecuted in other parts of Faerun but given the religious freedom of Amn i would guess that worshippers can come from any station of life from thief to merchant to noble and nobody who has not the power to do something about it(mostly coin to bribe officials or part of an organisation who has enough weight to influence the council and other bodies of power in Amn) would dare to break the religious freedom for he would be punished by law. |
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