| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 11 Oct 2012 : 15:56:47
WotC has stated publicly that their novel line post-Sundering they plan to focus on small-scale stories that don't shake the world or revamp whole cities/nations/gods. So basically, this means the end of RSEs.
Of course, it apparently takes a RSE to end the cycle of RSEs (something that was supposed to end with the introduction of 4e), and that's the Sundering. WotC is pouring all of its FR resources into doing that event right and drawing some big talent in to write the novels.
When you read FR novels, do you prefer the big scale events or the small scale? Do you want your Realms to shake, or do you want to read smaller stories that have high personal stakes for the characters but don't leave a lasting impact on the world?
I'll give some specific examples to illustrate the distinction:
RSE-scale stories include Richard Lee Byer's Rogue Dragons or Haunted Lands series, Richard Baker's Last Mythal series, the War of the Spider Queen, Lisa Smedman's Lady Penitent Series, Thomas Reid's Empyrean Odyssey, Paul Kemp's Twilght War, etc.
Recent small-scale stories include Paul Kemp's Erevis Cale series, my Shadowbane series, Bruce Cordell's Sword of the Gods, Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep, Jaleigh Johnson's Unbroken Chain series, etc., as well as the original Harpers novels (such as Elaine's series starting with Elfshadow).
R.A. Salvatore's Legend of Drizzt series straddles the line between RSE and small-scale, so put that out of your mind. 
Think back on your purchasing habits. Or just look at your book shelf. Which do you buy more: RSE novels or small scale books?
EDIT NOTE! If your response is "I buy or used to buy every FR novel ever printed (or at least most of them)," then take this poll to be the question "which style do you PREFER?" and then explain it below.
(Partly this is a loaded question, because it's clear that RSE-based novels sell far better than small-scale novels. If there is, as I suspect there will be, a push against RSEs, why is this the case?) |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| coach |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 16:38:39
i own all novels that are pre-4e FR
got out of the habit after the spellplague
i like longterm series/characters the most as you have time to see the characters grow |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 13:09:30
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
Elaine - most of the translations were quite good. As good as English originals, I believe, having read some of the FR novels in original.
I mourn the days when I could buy Polish Forgotten Realms novels, too. I remember waiting for WotSQ to come out...
The Polish translator for WINDWALKER was the only translator, for any book or any language, who contacted me with questions. I was impressed by the level of thought, care, and creativity he was putting into the translation. |
| Zireael |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 09:37:17
Elaine - most of the translations were quite good. As good as English originals, I believe, having read some of the FR novels in original.
I mourn the days when I could buy Polish Forgotten Realms novels, too. I remember waiting for WotSQ to come out... |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 02:46:18
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
Addendum: I stopped buying FR novels around the time 4e rolled in, because it was when the Polish publisher stopped selling them. After that, I only got Lady Penitent and Blackstaff (in English).
That's too bad. For a while, the Polish publisher had one of the most comprehensive publishing programs of any of the foreign licensees. Most of my novels and many of the anthologies are in Polish. I can't vouch for how GOOD the translations are, since all I have to go on is my father's opinion that the first anthology was not "literary Polish." |
| Zireael |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 18:45:05
Addendum: I stopped buying FR novels around the time 4e rolled in, because it was when the Polish publisher stopped selling them. After that, I only got Lady Penitent and Blackstaff (in English). |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 18:12:29
I don't really want it as a TV show either. I'm just saying at this point, because of the length of the series, it would work better as a TV show, unless they only focused on, say, Icewind Dale trilogy. |
| IamWeasel |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 15:52:09
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I hear you, IamWeasal, I only read the novels too.
I like RSE and small scale stories. I like "save the world" stories, but I also like stories about, say, someone who is trying to get through a wizardry school and make a name for himself.
As for the Drizzt movie...I used to want one, but...I think they'd have to make it into a TV series at this point. I still love Drizzt,and I follow his story, but I'm not sure I'd see a movie. Plus now that I've read so many other Realms books by now that I'm more likely to think Evermeet, or Erevis Cale, or WotSQ when I think Realms.
WotSQ won't work in a multi media format. You and I and visitors of the Realms would like it, everyone else won't understand it.
I hope Drizzt doesn't become a tv show, they would try and make it hokey and corny.
|
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 04:36:37
I hear you, IamWeasal, I only read the novels too.
I like RSE and small scale stories. I like "save the world" stories, but I also like stories about, say, someone who is trying to get through a wizardry school and make a name for himself.
As for the Drizzt movie...I used to want one, but...I think they'd have to make it into a TV series at this point. I still love Drizzt,and I follow his story, but I'm not sure I'd see a movie. Plus now that I've read so many other Realms books by now that I'm more likely to think Evermeet, or Erevis Cale, or WotSQ when I think Realms. |
| IamWeasel |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 02:06:14
I only read the novels, so playing characters in games doesn't come into play for me. If buying a trilogy that's a potential rse, I wait until they are all available until I do purchase.
I think the beauty of the realms is some small time adventurer could have a grand adventure and some well trained theif could steal a god's portfolio. As long as there are good writers involved I keep buying. It's about the realms so it has some significance no matter the scale.
I do lend preference to epic characters that span short stories and rse. I can understand epic characters as more marketable if looking from the corporate side. They are more likely to develop a cultish following that can spawn other medium. I believe there will be Drizzt movies someday...who else is in line? |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 15:41:09
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Ah ha, I found it! I had commented on this thread, but then forgot to subscribe to it *headdesk* Erik, I have a question for you: you mentioned short stories. Where could I submit one?
I'm not entirely sure of the context, but if you're asking about the plan to have short web-fiction set in the Realms, then let me clarify that at this point, it's only an IDEA. WotC has announced no such plan, and to my knowledge they aren't taking submissions for fiction of any kind, short or long.
Stand by, though. You never know when that will change. In the meantime, I suggest honing your skills by writing and submitting to other fantasy anthologies online. Or write that novel you've been meaning to get to. November's coming soon, after all!
Cheers
|
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 05:12:11
Ah ha, I found it! I had commented on this thread, but then forgot to subscribe to it *headdesk* Erik, I have a question for you: you mentioned short stories. Where could I submit one? |
| skychrome |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 03:24:46
I prefer small scale over RSE. For example I loved the Erevis Cale trilogy and I also love "micro-scale" like The Black Bouquet or City of Ravens.
However I could't live without RSE neither. FR without War of the Spiderqueen or Lady Penitent? Not for me. Anyways, since 4e I do not try to catch up desperately with the realms anymore. Maybe 5e can bring me back to where 3e left me. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 17:00:15
The change does not need to be detrimental to the setting. If anything, it will keep it from being stagnant. Sage put it well. Ultimately, it depends on what one is looking for in a story. There are RSEs I hardly care for, and some I consider to have been quite excellent, and handled with care and precision. |
| Tanthalas |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 14:48:44
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
It depends why you're reading a realms novel: is it for a good story in a setting you love, this developing/fleshing out that setting, or to see the setting you love change?
Cheers
None of those are mutually exclusive though. (More reasoning for my opinion below)
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I'm all for high stakes in a story, but stakes don't have to be world-changing to be high. If characters matters to you and if their story is well told, life-and-death stakes for those characters can create a considerable amount of dramatic tension. Stopping a crime, rescuing a comrade, finding a murderer before he strikes again, surviving a local disaster--there are many possibilities.
I'm not saying that the only good stories are the ones that shake the realms. One of my favorite "recent" FR novels was City of the Dead, and I think everyone can agree that the novel probably didn't even affect Waterdeep much, much less the region or the Realms itself. In fact, I liked most of the Waterdeep novels.
I just want to have an offer of both small and large scale stories to read. And personally, I believe that large scale stories having no noticeable impact on the Realms would be detrimental to those stories. I believe that the Forgotten Realms needs both types of stories. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 12:37:37
I enjoy both smaller scale stories and RSEs but when it come to making a purchase I will get the RSE pretty much every time as there is more bang for my buck it in and also there are generally characters and locations that you know and love rather than some throwaway one book characters. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 05:02:32
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
It depends, really, on how a reader defines "high stakes." Rescuing a city or the whole world from the brink of destruction, versus rescuing a lover in danger. Which one is greater? For that matter, why choose just one, when a story can feature both---a world in tatters, with characters fighting not only for survival, but also for all those people they sincerely care about, and at the same trying to forge their own destiny. I've read world-shattering events type of stories that doesn't just focus on the whole BIG conflict, but also zooms into the individual internal, and small-scale tension/conflicts among the characters. The Haunted Lands Trilogy is just like that, so are many non-FR books, like The Riftwar series, The Mistborn trilogy, The Night Angel trilogy, etc... In short, why only feature small-scale conflicts, when they can be included in the bigger ones. An RSE novel can still be character-driven at the same time.
The current intent of WotC, though, is to get rid of the endless flood of RSEs. They've come to recognize that having an RSE every other day is more than a little ridiculous, so they're trying to get back to just telling stories. We've had enough BOOM!, now they're going to give us bang.
I've enjoyed some of the RSEs, but as I said, my favorite stories are the ones that are smaller in scale. In Elfsong, for example, Garnet didn't blow up anything, and still had a dramatic impact on Waterdeep. |
| jornan |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 03:46:05
I think it should be noted that sometimes the "EVENT" or the promise of a huge event is used almost as camouflage for an otherwise uninteresting plot or characters.
I enjoy the smaller scope stories when I can emotionally invest in the characters and actually care about what happens to their individual lives. But in several FR stories I just don't care enough about the character to want to read the smaller scope story. Conversely, I think an EPIC event often masks that fact that the characters are pretty bland and uninspired. I would really like to see a focus on less books and more quality stories being told in the realms.
I like changes that shape the face of the world and progress the places and politics of the world, but I get very tired of the "if we don't stop them the entire world is in peril" stories. Especially the ones that aren't particularly good or captivating. That kind should be few and far in between and written by only the most talented and experienced FR authors. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 03:27:55
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
And this is why I wouldn't like for RSE's to disappear. It would take away all the tension from stories since we'd know that the status quo would never change.
I'm all for high stakes in a story, but stakes don't have to be world-changing to be high. If characters matters to you and if their story is well told, life-and-death stakes for those characters can create a considerable amount of dramatic tension. Stopping a crime, rescuing a comrade, finding a murderer before he strikes again, surviving a local disaster--there are many possibilities.
That's exactly right. And I think this is also partly why so many of the earlier Realms-tales, which focus on these kinds of plots, have established themselves so well in our memories as how "high stakes" stories can be successful. Elfshadow is a prime example of those earlier books, but I also maintain that Depths of Madness is a reliable example from more recent times.
This isn't to say that high-stakes RSE tales aren't also the way to go. But it really does come down to the type of story that's being told, the cast of characters, and how it will ultimately fit into the framework of the greater shared-world dynamic of the Realms campaign setting. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 02:20:16
It depends, really, on how a reader defines "high stakes." Rescuing a city or the whole world from the brink of destruction, versus rescuing a lover in danger. Which one is greater? For that matter, why choose just one, when a story can feature both---a world in tatters, with characters fighting not only for survival, but also for all those people they sincerely care about, and at the same trying to forge their own destiny. I've read world-shattering events type of stories that doesn't just focus on the whole BIG conflict, but also zooms into the individual internal, and small-scale tension/conflicts among the characters. The Haunted Lands Trilogy is just like that, so are many non-FR books, like The Riftwar series, The Mistborn trilogy, The Night Angel trilogy, etc... In short, why only feature small-scale conflicts, when they can be included in the bigger ones. An RSE novel can still be character-driven at the same time. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Oct 2012 : 22:18:49
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
And this is why I wouldn't like for RSE's to disappear. It would take away all the tension from stories since we'd know that the status quo would never change.
I'm all for high stakes in a story, but stakes don't have to be world-changing to be high. If characters matters to you and if their story is well told, life-and-death stakes for those characters can create a considerable amount of dramatic tension. Stopping a crime, rescuing a comrade, finding a murderer before he strikes again, surviving a local disaster--there are many possibilities.
I quite agree. It's part of the reason I've more than once held up Elfshadow and Azure Bonds as some of my fave Realms tales, and as an example of how a story can be small in scale and yet have high stakes. Those two books, between them, have a dragon, a fallen god, assassins, evil spellcasters, betrayal, mysteries, the forging of friendships, and in both cases, a woman at the heart of the story, fighting to control her own destiny.
Pretty big stakes there, for the main character.
And in both cases, a wonderful tale that showcases the setting to fans and newcomers alike.
That's the kind of tale I want.
One individual story may not have much of an impact on the overall setting. But it is the nature of the Realms that even though we don't get to read them, there are thousands of these individual stories playing out everyday, in every corner of the Realms. One tale may not change things -- but thousands of tales will. You don't have to blow up the setting to move it forward, you just have to show that there are all these stories happening, and that some of them influence or even directly cause others. |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 14 Oct 2012 : 21:16:11
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
And this is why I wouldn't like for RSE's to disappear. It would take away all the tension from stories since we'd know that the status quo would never change.
I'm all for high stakes in a story, but stakes don't have to be world-changing to be high. If characters matters to you and if their story is well told, life-and-death stakes for those characters can create a considerable amount of dramatic tension. Stopping a crime, rescuing a comrade, finding a murderer before he strikes again, surviving a local disaster--there are many possibilities.
|
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 14 Oct 2012 : 17:54:13
Well, I'm talking about scale, here. The status quo of my characters changes radically--I just don't break pieces of the *greater Realms*.
It depends why you're reading a realms novel: is it for a good story in a setting you love, this developing/fleshing out that setting, or to see the setting you love change?
Cheers |
| Tanthalas |
Posted - 14 Oct 2012 : 17:04:32
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
1) I don't cause massive devastation/destruction, 2) I don't kill off named characters in other sourcebooks/novels, and 3) I pretty much return the Realms to the status quo.
And this is why I wouldn't like for RSE's to disappear. It would take away all the tension from stories since we'd know that the status quo would never change. |
| GRYPHON |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 15:01:06
I buy equal numbers of RSE and small-scale novels... |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 05:16:51
@Erik: thanks! And oooohh a short story. Where would I be able to submit one? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 01:44:08
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
@RLB: Good question. There are lines to be drawn, I think. If the character is significant, like Alusair or anyone else with an actual statblock, that's probably a RSE. If its a small presence without a lot of impact on the realms, that's less so.
Agreed. For instance, many of the characters in Jean Rabe's Red Magic and Lynn Abbey's The Simbul's Gift were stat'd in sourcebooks, but those two novels are definitely not RSEs. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 12 Oct 2012 : 22:57:53
quote:
Originally posted by phranctoast
Some of my favorite books are RSE's. In fact if you look at recommended books from people here, they seem to gravitate towards RSE's too.
Well, my theory is that it's a self-perpetuating cycle. Most people read the big blockbuster RSE series (such as RLB's Rogue Dragons) and recommend them. The smaller scale stories have a reputation for having limited appeal, which I don't think is really the case.
quote:
I'm bothered that RAS or Ed don't contribute to any RSE's (other than Neverwinter getting destroyed by the primordial, as the Orc War didn't really feel like one to me, though the end result was. Nesmes destruction also didn't feel like one)
Well, they do, just not all the time. The Cormyr series (which was written by Ed and Troy Denning) was a pretty big RSE. The events in the Orc King, the Pirate King, and even the Ghost King were what I'd consider RSEs. Also, both Bob and Ed are working on the Sundering, which is a pretty huge RSE.
Maybe RSE isn't clear enough a term to use in this discussion without a definition. Hmm . . .
Cheers
|
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 12 Oct 2012 : 22:49:53
@RLB: Good question. There are lines to be drawn, I think. If the character is significant, like Alusair or anyone else with an actual statblock, that's probably a RSE. If its a small presence without a lot of impact on the realms, that's less so.
The thing about RSE as a term is that it isn't used consistently. People use it as a blanket term to apply to lots of stories, and everyone draws different lines. I guess my definition tends toward being pretty broad.
Cheers |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 12 Oct 2012 : 21:23:56
Erik, do you think croaking ANY named character from a sourcebook qualifies a story as an RSE? I ask because I've done that in books I don't think of as RSE's. |
| phranctoast |
Posted - 12 Oct 2012 : 20:12:44
I buy both, but would not want RSE's to stop.
Some of my favorite books are RSE's. In fact if you look at recommended books from people here, they seem to gravitate towards RSE's too. I'm bothered that RAS or Ed don't contribute to any RSE's (other than Neverwinter getting destroyed by the primordial, as the Orc War didn't really feel like one to me, though the end result was. Nesmes destruction also didn't feel like one) |
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