| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 16:20:17
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Days_of_Thunder
Has anyone here ever run a campaign set during the Days of Thunder?
I think that the latter part, when the Batrachi are in decline and the Aeerae are just rising, sounds good. Humans are present, but presumably still primitive. This timeframe allows us to use all the Creator Races.
Creator Races overview(doesn’t detail offshoot or created species):
• Aeerae, the up and coming power in Faerun, explorers/messengers/traders, strong in the western islands but not yet an empire-building people
• Batrachi: a slowly collapsing empire and its barbarous offshoots, decadent, strange magic/technology
• the Reptilians: ancient and mysterious, keepers of strange secrets, connected with the ‘terrible lizards’ that stalk the jungles of the south
• the Fey: lords and ladies of Faerie and their subject races, less courtly than in later ages, rawer and more elemental
• Humans: scavengers, savages, foragers, pets/slaves, the underdogs
Now, which races should be allowed for player characters?
I’m thinking:
• Humans, perhaps with Neanderthal as a sub race?
• Some sort of hobbit-sized fey, not too high powered, maybe like Gelflings from the Dark Crystal
• A non-evil reptilian race- maybe Saurials or Lizard Men
• A non-evil amphibian race
• Aeerae?
Technology is mostly exotic or primitive. Magic is alien, weird, or unpredictable. Maybe it would make sense to include some Lovecraftian elements? Alienist /Summoners a la AD&D 2E and the Far Realms?
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 23:18:58
Well, when two squidbillies fall in love, inevitably, they get drunk and/or stoned and... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 12:50:45
So where do squidbillies come from? 
 |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 06:30:53
Octopoid architecture is very distinctive in that it generally has no angles. It's all curves. They mostly look like mounds: round, oval, teardrop shaped, and sinusoidal. The domed structures though are very shallow, tending to be much wider than tall. Only rarely are they perfectly circular; they are usually narrower along one diameter than they are along the opposing axis. On the inside the ceilings generally resemble tapered barrel vaults.
Over the millennia, as sand or silt has washed over them, the less tall structures may have accreted a thick enough layer that they have come to look like sand dunes. Perhaps with the occasional tell-tale glint of colored glass flashing through in places where a bare spot catches the sun or a light source just right.
Taller structures tend to look like mounds piled upon mounds, resembling streamlined ziggurats, with an oval or teardrop cross section.
Their towers were usually paraboloid in shape, reminiscent of London's "Gherkin" building, though generally thinner and not at all constructed with anything like modern skyscraper techniques. Some towers had a teardrop cross section, suggestive of a plump airplane wing pointing vertically into the sky.
The airstreaming (or aquastreaming) was not merely aesthetic, but essential for supporting the infrastructure against pressure differences and powerful currents generated along the ocean floor. The interlocking glass blocks they used were ingeniously crafted to give and pivot at the joints just the slightest bit to avoid shattering when subjected to huge forces. In violent currents, the facades of octopoid buildings may be seen to ripple ever so slightly along the surface of the structure, almost like the scales of a fish.
Because they were made of glass — variously transparent, translucent, or opaque — octopoid buildings have no structural windows. Windows do not disrupt the shape of the surface, which is smooth at every point.
To distinguish "walls" from "windows", they merely use blocks that are either opaque, glazed or tiled along the surface of the structure where they desire not to see out (or for others to see in). It's often hard to spot the "windows", the transparent spots, among the often baroque ornament, glazework, and mosaics that adorn their buildings. But often huge sections are transparent, and the top points of domes typically have no ornament at all, creating the appearance of an oculus to let more natural light in from above. Octopoid windows tend more to open upwards to the light that filters down from the surface or to the luminescent light of creatures swimming through the waters above like twinkling stars.
A very distinctive feature of octopoid architecture is that their entrances always open upwards. Typically, what appears to be an alcove or niche in a wall will have a round porthole in the ceiling. The recess may extend all the way downwards to the floor or only halfway to about waist height.
Entering upwards and exiting downwards is deeply ingrained in the octopoid psyche. They always hesitate upon going through a doorway; their eyes will poke down and peer out of the opening, surveying the area cautiously before the rest of their body follows. The niche side always faces outwards from the building or the room. This gives the "upper ground" to the defender. The niche may have a transparent or half-silvered window to gaze out for surveillance purposes.
On the inside of the room is a ledge or corresponding niche with a porthole that opens downwards. The inner niche is usually set higher on the wall, and may have a ramp or a little bit of an upward sloping tunnel to reach it. Or the niche may be set in the wall about waist high, in which case the floors of the inner chambers may be offset (upwards) a few feet from the floor in the exterior hallway or outside of the building. Humanoids often mistake such features as garderobes—which they do resemble somewhat.
Typically the offset between the inside floor and the outside floor level is about half a story. Entering successive rooms that are offset in such a manner in a multi-level structure might be confusing if you were not aware of the fact. You could end up several stories higher or lower on a different level than where you started, all without having seen a staircase or ramp. In fact, octopoids never used stair cases. Their hallways could be vertical or sloping at steep angles. They were swimming beings and their architecture reflects their freedom of mobility along all 3 dimensions.
After the Ramenite metamorphosis, the Batrachi became ambulatory, vertebrate beings. Their surface architecture from that point forward began to reflect more humanoid considerations—with hallways, staircases, arched doorways, and all the usual conceits to gravity and feet. But as much of their cities and buildings were built underwater as above, and the underwater portions of their habitat preserved many of the distinctive features of their octopoid forebears.
There were a few unique adaptations to their hopping ability. They loved terraces and tiered balconies that one could hop between. In lieu of stairs, they often had successively elevated platforms offset by about 4 feet, that they could easily hop to ascend. These look somewhat like staircases made for a gargantuan-sized creature. Often the platforms were cantilevered on supports out from the wall of the building or tower, looking like an array of leaves or lily pads jutting out and spiraling around the circumference of the tower or building.
Batrachi had a powerful need for access to copious water, and so they engineered extensive and massive water infrastructures. Aqueducts to transport water vast distances. Dams to flood valleys and fields. Canals for travel (they favored canals over roads), and to link rivers, lakes and seas. Levees, dikes and seawalls to channel rivers and harness the tides. Watermills for milling grain, wood, textiles, etc. Though not many of those structures have survived to the current day. Still, scant traces and ruins of such grand architecture can be found in a few places around Faerûn, and make for exciting places to explore. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 03:43:03
Batrachi AND octopoid ceramology in the same scroll?
Mr. Richardson, you're a fountain of grand ideas!  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 23:48:01
Friend Gray, this is indeed some good stuff!
What would you say would be the distinctive characteristics of octopoid structures (other than the building material)? As in, do they favor narrow openings, tall ceilings, funky triangular protrusions every 17.3 inches, etc?
And for humanoids, such as the aforementioned and now passed sea elves, how usable are these structures? Comfortable, awkward to enter, that sort of thing... I'm doubting that octopoids built their structures with demihuman comfort in mind. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 22:42:25
The octopoids were very skilled with all types of ceramics. The glass furnaces were made from ceramic that isolated the heat in a chamber and insulated it from the outside. Such chambers could be cast as a single ceramic container or made as a box lined with ceramic tiles shaped to focus and reflect the heat inwards. There was insulation enough that the outside of the chamber was little hotter than the surrounding air.
Furnaces needed a fuel source. A variety of those were used, from natural to magical, including captured or summoned fire elementals. Additionally, an air intake, usually attached to a bellows of some kind, and a chimney or exhaust system was used to inject a fast airstream to stoke the fire intensely hot. Because heat rises, the furnaces had tall chimneys to carry the heat up and away from the infrastructure of the raft, pontoon, or boat structure.
Although, the octopoids didn't have wood, so these floating structures tended to be made from less flammable materials anyway. The pontoons could be made from bladder materials, or skin, a type of silk made from web-producing sea creatures. Even ceramic pontoons were common. Many of the raft structures were made with pumice.
For mass production of glass blocks, they often roped scores of such furnaces together, with the alchemists overseeing round-the-clock production with workers bringing materials up to the surface on a continuous basis.
Furnaces could be made larger to make mass batches of glassteel,which could be poured into special molds to form the interlocking blocks they used for construction. The blocks could then be tempered in separate tempering kilns designed for that purpose. The largest of the melting furnaces were about the size of a trireme. And that was about the upward limit of how large such furnaces could be made.
The Batrachi, though did not always employ the furnace method to make blocks for construction, but often used a seamless method developed by the octopoids sometime around the beginning of the Days of Thunder. It involved using magic and often fire or magma elementals to hold and heat the materials in situ which resulted in structural shells of such strength and integrity they could withstand the pummeling of the waves and currents without the blocks shifting over time. Such buildings were strong enough that many are still standing today some 30,000 years later.
I think the ones in the Tun marshes are of that variety, although there are many more examples found at the bottom of the Trackless Sea.
There is a spectacular octopoid city with many fine examples of intact octopoid architecture, great domed and bubble-like structures, and spiraling towers. The buildings are mostly a deep cobalt blue, with jewel toned accents and colorful mosaics. Those ruins are located not too far due west of the Isle of Moray in the Moonshaes. The ruins had been settled for a time by a colony of aquatic elves, until recently, when the colony was entirely killed off in a sahuagin attack. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 20:23:45
Very nice write-up (again!). One question though: Can you describe these floating furnaces in more detail? How do they get a furnace hot enough to create glassteel onto a raft/pontoon? |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 18:31:07
Thanks! Since you've got me thinking about it, here's another tidbit of lore: The secret of Batrachi glassteel.
The primary building and craft material of the aquatic creator race was glass. Metal was not favored because it was hard to mine, refine, melt, and mold, and immersed in saltwater, all metals corrode with time. Metal weapons will not hold an edge in seawater. Glass was favored because the primary ingredient was their most abundant resource: sand.
Primitive octopoids discovered naturally occurring volcanic glass, and carved from it exquisite blades of black obsidian that were deathly sharp. They observed how volcanic heat and sometimes lightning would melt sand to form glass. In time they discovered ways to create glass artificially.
Initially, it was just the plain old brittle kind. Though they learned to sculpt it and tint it to make extraordinary works of art, silver it to make mirrors, cut it to make tiles, and crush it to make glazes that could be applied to tiles and surfaces. The aquatic creator race enjoyed color, and every surface of their architecture was adorned.
At the zenith of their art, octopoid alchemists discovered the secret of glassteel, a form of glass that exceeded the strength of metal. Though not ductile, glassteel can endure tremendous force before breaking. It is lighter than steel, and weapons made of it hold a very keen edge that never needs honing or sharpening.
Glassteel is made from alchemical processes that require baking in great heat, much higher than that used to create ordinary glass. Alchemists could use volcanic vents, or build special furnaces that floated on the surface, on rafts or pontoons. Sometimes they would build their furnaces on land, sandbars, the tips of mountains that thrust above the waves. Though land was scarce in Toril's Blue Age, there were a few spots of solid surface that would suffice.
Glassteel actually contains no steel. Some modern recipes may call for it, but that is either a red herring designed to protect the alchemist's true recipe, or an inaccurate guess. If such recipes produce anything, it will not be true Batrachi glassteel.
Glassteel is made from 20 parts sand (or quartz). 7 parts sassolite, a white mineral found near volcanic fumaroles and in evaporite deposits at the bottom of dry lake beds. 2 parts lime. 1 part corundum (a mineral often called ruby or sapphire depending on color). And lastly, one last part containing a mixture of alchemical salts, which may vary from alchemist to alchemist, but the composition of which they guard jealously. The ingredients are added and mixed according to a very precise process at extremely high temperatures. Then the glass is cooled and tempered by reheating and cooling it to specific temperatures for specific times, over and over again for several successive cycles.
The aquatic creator race, and their successors, the Batrachi, used interlocking blocks of such material in their grandest architecture. There are glassteel towers of Batrachi construction found in certain swamps of Faerûn to this day. They have stood for over 30,000 years—a testament to Batrachi craftsmanship in the art of glass. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 21:11:28
What can I say besides WOW. Gray your work on the history of the creator races is amazing. |
| Gyor |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 18:58:15
This is a really cool thread. It will be interesting to see how the creator races and tbier desendants evovle for 5e. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 10:20:27
I am sure the krakens and the Octopoids have a complex history together. Through the millennia they have been foes, allies, servants and masters to each other. I imagine the krakens are at least as old a race, if not older, than the aquatic creator race themselves. Both races predate the ice ages, predate the swallowing of the first sun by Dendar, back when Toril was a blue water world, teeming with life beneath the waves.
Krakens were no doubt a mighty race as well. Strong and powerful, these enormous creatures were terrors of the sea. They often ruled vast territories of their own. What kept them from achieving creator race status for themselves, is that they were too solitary to unite together to form great civilizations. They did not need to develop technology, magic, or infrastructure to impose their will upon others. Early on, they surely enslaved, bullied, cowed, or bent the lesser Octopoids to their will, sometimes even commanding worship as "gods."
Over time, the Octopoids gained in power, forming clans, tribes, nations and empires of their own. Because they were small (well, medium sized), and weak, they survived by being clever and banding together. They fought krakens, some krakens joined with the Octopoids, some krakens were in turn enslaved.
At their height, before the Ramenite transformation into the Batrachi, some aquatic creator race nations were multi-racial empires, containing not only Octopoids, but also krakens, anguillians, ixitxachitl, perhaps even aboleths, and many, many other marine races.
But I think, perhaps, the best way to view the relationship between the krakens and the Octopoids would be analogous to the relations between humans and giants through the ages. The krakens were certainly the brutish giants of the sea.
But I do think krakens were in close enough association with the Octopoids, that the kraken god Panzuriel became a member of the Great School pantheon of the aquatic creator race. I feel strongly that Panzuriel was probably the god of death for the Octopoids. He also had the portfolios of murder confusion and strife. He was very much the Cyric of his era, although Panzuriel was the original. He may have even been the very first god of Death. Or if not, he surely murdered him and stole his portfolios.
Panzuriel would have been The Lord of the Fugue Plane, although the plane was probably a sea back at that time. Today, the River Slith, a putrid trickle of polluted muck and slime that flows through the Fugue, is all that is left of the once great silver sea that filled the expanse of the Fugue Plane back in the Days of Thunder, before Tearfall.
All the dominions of the astral were part of one great silver sea originally, back before land arose on Toril. The silver sea around the mountains of Celestia and also around the islands of the Gates of the Moon, also the waters of the Evergold, and other astral waterways, are remnants of the luminous ocean that once permeated the whole of the astral plane.
The River Slith still connects to the corrupted seas of the Fated Depths. Once the exalted heaven of the Great School pantheon, before it was harrowed by Ramenos. Who,at the moment of his greatest power, fueled by the monotheistic zeal he fad instilled in the greater part of the Octopoid race, slammed through the shining waters of the Fated Depths, devouring the Great School gods in ravenous gulps, growing ever larger, until he laid waste to the entire plane and left it barren, with (nearly) all the pantheon dead. Ramenos used the power he gained from his rampage to fuel the epic metamorphosis of the Octopoid race into the vertebrate Batrachi. Now amphibious, he empowered them to rise above the waves to conquer the land as they had the oceans.
Panzuriel survived the onslaught in his stronghold of the Fugue. He remained the god of the dead for a time, but grew ever weaker in power as his worship and belief waned.
Sometime during the dominion of the Batrachi, the Aearee god of death gained in power. Phraarkiloorm, vulture-headed patron of the vulchling sub race, was ever-present in the consciousness of the Aearee slaves of the Batrachi, whose harsh abuses took a constant, deadly toll on the avians. The Aearee prayed to him to watch over the dead, protect the living from death, or sometimes ease the suffering of the hopeless and despondent thralls who could no longer bear their bondage. And, of course, they prayed to him for vengeance upon their cruel overlords.
It was not that difficult for an empowered Phraarkiloorm to wrest control of the Fugue from a weakened Panzuriel. Who fled back to the now darkened waters of the Fated Depths, nursing the wound of his severed tentacle, which he bears to this day--though when depicted in humanoid guise, Panzuriel is often portrayed with a severed foot instead.
Phraarkiloorm remained master of the Fugue until he in turn was devoured by the draconic death god Null upon the rise of Dragons.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 09:53:26
My thoughts on the Krakens would be that those evolved from the Aquatic/amphibious Creator Race (Grey's piece in the CKC relates how various Ichthyoids are descended from them). That would be just one 'path' that evolution might have taken (assuming not all of them devolved).
I had once theorized that the Krakentua was actually an (failed) attempt by the Illithids to create a mindflayer from a Titan. Since the thing's head looks like a Kraken (hence the name), there's another possible connection. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 09:41:43
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
(...)
Mechanic-wise, I find that while 3E did not do stats for swan-maidens(and it wouldn't be all that hard to write up anyway), but there was a prestige class in the Book of Exalted Deeds (pg. 76) that, coincidentally, that comprised of females attuned to nature that can shapeshift into swans and granted a host of other spell-like abilities. By 10th level it transforms you into a fey.
Of course, there's a possibility that swanmaidens were always just that; female humanoids with a deep connection to the fey and the natural world and gifted to be swanmaidens as they progressed in power.
In the 2e Book of Humanoids Swanmays are human or elven rangers or druids that possessed the veil that allowed their transformation into swans. It is not very different from the lore in their Monster - and subsequent Monstrous - Manual entry.
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| Razz |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 03:29:42
I was reading the Kraken Society recently and took note of a passage in 3E Lords of Darkness stating the kraken leader became obsessed with his current goal in part due to discovering that "his race" once had "former glories".
Seeing how powerful the krakens are, what relation would they have with the octopoid aquatic race? It's quite hard to imagine them as servitors or creations, meaning the proto-aqua race must have really been mighty in power. Possible they may have made the proto-aqua race their servitors but then how did they break free if such were true? Or could it be the krakens are the proto-aqua race? |
| Razz |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 13:46:13
Very interesting, Gray. I will take these to heart and use this lore as a foundation for further adventure in my Realms.
I, too, was thinking swan-maidens to be more linked to fey somehow.
Mechanic-wise, I find that while 3E did not do stats for swan-maidens(and it wouldn't be all that hard to write up anyway), but there was a prestige class in the Book of Exalted Deeds (pg. 76) that, coincidentally, that comprised of females attuned to nature that can shapeshift into swans and granted a host of other spell-like abilities. By 10th level it transforms you into a fey.
Of course, there's a possibility that swanmaidens were always just that; female humanoids with a deep connection to the fey and the natural world and gifted to be swanmaidens as they progressed in power. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 04:31:57
As for Raptorans, I actually think that they are not Aearee at all. They are just humanoids with wings. Races of the Wild explains that they were once merely ordinary, wingless humanoids who made a pact with powerful elemental lords from the Plane of Air to grant them flight.
Aearee are not humanoids. Aearee are birds, with somewhat slightly humanoid features. Aearee actually looked very much like the Aarakocra of today. Well, actually, the Aearee-Syran subrace did (who lived in the east and north of the Merrouroboros super-continent, which would be the North and parts east of Faerûn today.) The Aearee-Quor, who lived in the south, looked like Kenku, but had great wings instead of puny arms. The Aearee-Krocca, the western subrace of the Aearee, looked more like eagles, hawks, falcons and raptors. Modern aarakocra are probably a result of interbreeding between surviving Aearee-Krocca and Aearee-Syran.
There were other, minor, subraces of Aearee, including Vulchlings, who had the appearance of vultures, condors, and buzzards. Also the Eblis, who had the features of storks or cranes. Not to mention the Dohwar, who looked like penguins, and who escaped predation from dragons by fleeing Toril in spelljamming ships, where they still thrive in wildspace to this day.
I would not, personally, intertwine the Raptorans with the lore of the Aearee. But if you wanted to, you might consider them a hybrid of human and Aearee, or perhaps human slaves, or allies that were transformed by Aearee magic.
Actually, I have been trying to think of a way to link swan-maidens to Aearee lore, but haven't really thought of a good way to do that except maybe the same explanation as above, that swan-maidens were human allies of the Aearee that were granted the ability to transform into swan form through Aearee magic that has bred true over time. However, there is also lore linking the swan-maidens to the fey. But, then again, maybe the swan-maidens were instead fey allies of the Aearee who were granted the ability to transform into swans through Aearee magic. Or perhaps they were fey spies, who transformed into swans in order to spy on the Aearee for the LeShay.
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| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 04:03:42
I wouldn't say that Batrachi were the same in power to the Sarrukh naturally. I would suggest that Batrachi, although they may start out weak, gain in power through experience, just as humans do.
Most Batrachi, I surmise, were rather unremarkable. But there were individuals at every power level, gained mostly through level advancement in one class or another. A very small fraction achieved epic levels, and of course those Batrachi may be disproportionately represented in whatever records or legends may have survived from that age.
Bazim-Gorag the Firebringer is a unique, epic-level entity, who has been called a slaad lord in Dungeon #101, where he was introduced, and in his write-up in Champions of Ruin, where he is statted as a CR 21 outsider.
However, in the Grand History of the Realms p.5, he calls himself a Batrachi lord. He also says his people are often mistaken for slaadi, who inhabit the same plane of the Supreme Throne (formerly called Limbo, before Cyric fled there from the Fugue Plane, taking it as his new seat of power and renaming the place as his "Supreme Throne.")
Bazim-Gorag is an interesting case. He has been "alive" for some 33,000 years. He claims to have been a powerful Batrachi ruler of a region extending from the Black Sea to the peaks of Lopango. He may have been a vassal (or possibly rival) of Zhoukoudien, the emperor (or "High One") of the most powerful Batrachi nation, named after himself. Or maybe he was just called by the name of the empire (In the way that Shakespeare often refers to kings metonymically by the names of their countries, for example in Hamlet, the king of England is referred to as England, and the king of Norway is also called Norway.)
Anyway, after Tearfall, circa -31,000 DR, many surviving Batrachi fled to the plane of Limbo. Those that remained on Toril remained the normal Batrachi they had been, whose descendants are the sivs, bullywugs, and grippli. Just as humans have not changed much from that time, we can assume the common ancestors of the sivs, bullywugs and grippli looked something like they do now. Or close enough for horseshoes.
But the Grand History of the Realms tells us that the Batrachi survivors that fled to Limbo (aka the Supreme Throne) were transformed a second time by Ramenos, in order to adapt to that plane. I imagine that Ramenos was not all that creative, and so he probably used the slaad as a model (apparently he used red slaadi, specifically, as a model), as their form was already pretty well adapted to the chaotic plane. These transformed Batrachi became the neraphim, the playable race that was introduced in the Planar Handbook. I assume their stats and current status are exactly as described in the Planar Handbook pp.12-13. According to that book, they are nomadic hunters organized into "houses" or clans.
Now, what exactly is a Batrachi lord? I assume they are epic level neraphim who have achieved paragon or paragon-equivalent status. The most obvious route would be as a seraph, or "chosen" of Ramenos. Or in 4e parlance some kind of exarch. They might at least have DVR 0.
Bazim-Gorag intrigues me. His entry in Champions of Ruin describes him as a lesser rival of slaad lords Ssendam and Ygorl. At least he has aspirations of challenging their power, although it sounds like Ygorl and Ssendam tolerate him, and don't really consider him a threat.
So he is considered a "slaad lord," has ties to the slaadi, and also has a second head. My own explanation is that some time after Tearfall, Ramenos slipped into somnolence, and during his dormancy became an absentee god to the neraphim. Some factions of the neraphim began to revere the slaad lords instead of Ramenos.
As a powerful Batrachi ruler on Toril, I assume Bazim-Gorag only had one head at the time. I will call him Bazim. Bazim may have already been selected as a seraph (or "chosen") of Ramenos prior to Tearfall. Bazim continued to be a powerful leader after he was transformed into a neraphim. He may have also developed skills as an anarch, with the power to shape the chaos of the plane to his will. After Ramenos withdrew into his sleep, Bazim sought new avenues to increasing his power. He looked to the other source of power on the plane: the slaadi. I suppose he used his accumulated power, either as an anarch, or other powerful magics, to trap and merge with a slaad with the intention of gaining its power. I am guessing perhaps a death slaad, a grey slaad, or at least a red slaad, but possibly even a minor slaad lord. But it looks like the slaad resisted the merge enough to remain a separate personality, manifesting as a second head. I will call him Gorag. The resulting composite entity emerged a more powerful being, both a Batrachi lord, and, arguably, with some claim to being a slaad lord as well.
There may be other explanations for how Bazim-Gorag came by his second head (including I suppose, his being born that way) but this is the explanation I am fond of. I imagine that Gorag is actually pleased by the unexpected result, and works with Bazim as a partner to achieve their dual aims. Although, if they hated each other, that could be interesting too. But that's a little too much like Demogorgon. So, for the sake of something different, I think having Bazim and Gorag work as partners (hey, or even lovers, perhaps Gorag identifies as female?--although technically slaad are neuter, I think...) is more interesting than having the two personalities hate or work against each other.
It sounds like there are other Batrachi lords. But surely not that many, probably just a handful. Over the centuries they would all have accumulated power by different routes. Some may be seraphs/chosen/exarchs of Ramenos. Some may just have epic levels. Some may have negotiated with hags to achieve power through rituals similar to the way in which altraloths are created. Others may have been warped by the plane, or pursued slaadi magic or artifacts. Perhaps some kind of ceremony with the slaadi Chaos Stone might grant a Batrachi some degree of power. All this to say that each "Batrachi lord" or arch-neraph or neraph lord, whatever you choose to call them, is probably a unique individual that could be designed any which way, with any set of powers, with a background or explanation for his achieving that power completely up to the GM. |
| Razz |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 00:28:59
Ah, one more thing, what place would the Raptorans have in relation to the Aeraee? Clearly they are descendants of the Aeraee and they actually look more like them originally than the Aaracockrans do, who look more like parrots whereas the Raptorans look truly uniquely avian. Personally, I've had it where enclaves of Raptorans are in Anchorome, with some of them migrating to Faerun for the same reasons the Aaracockrans did. Or maybe the two have had a falling out with each other and are in Faerun for deeper motives. I've yet to decide on anything with finality yet. |
| Razz |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 00:24:44
Interesting notes and suggestions, Gray.
Dragon Magazine #324 (I think) had some pretty good racial stats for the Grippli. That's been the only 3e stats written up for them officially, in fact.
So the Sarrukh were really the only naturally physically and magically powerful of them huh? But what of someone like the Batrachi Lord Bazim-Gorag? Not that all batrachi are of his level of power, but it feels like the batrachi are at least the same in power to the sarrukh naturally?
Though I do believe Bazim-Gorag had undergone a transformation into a slaad and it probably increased his power, along with thousands of years of accumulating even more power. So he is a bad example I guess.
Now I am confused; the slaads are not former batrachi right? Or is it that only some of them are and the rest are now neraphs? |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 07:27:04
I would use stats for Sivs (see Monsters of Faerûn), or maybe Grippli (Tome of Horrors, not an official WotC book, but a licensed 3e book) or Bullywugs (also in Monsters of Faerûn) for the Batrachi. I don't think their modern descendants differ too much from their ancient ancestors.
Likewise, the Aearee were not that different from modern Aarakocra. They also had stats in Monsters of Faerûn but also Races of Faerûn. For the Aearee-Quor subrace, I'd use the stats for Crow-headed Tengu from the 3e Oriental Adventures book. This was when they still had wings. After they began to worship Pazriel, they lost their wings and the ability to fly as part of their demonic bargain. That left them looking like the modern day kenkus, who had stats in Monster Manual 3, and in Creatures of Rokugan. Or their debased, subterranean cousins, the Dire Corbies (also statted in Tome of Horrors)
Now as for the pre-Batrachi, pre-transformation, aquatic creator race, I might start with the Octopus stats from the 3.5 Monster Manual p.276, and use the advancement rules to advance it from small to medium size. I would also compare it to the Tako stats on p.193 of the 3e Oriental Adventures book — although, I'd give them two eyes. Lastly, I would add the mimic shape feat from the mimic entry of the Monster Manual, or basically just a really high racial bonus to disguise.
You can play around with their appearances, but the stats should be about the same as their modern counterparts.
Unlike the LeShay and the Sarrukh, the Batrachi and their octopoid ancestors, and the Aearee, in the same manner as humans, were not particularly physically powerful races. They did not really have innate special powers. What made them powerful was their ability to band together and establish great civilizations. They were able to learn, advance technologically, and build great works. And most of all, they were able to master the highest forms of magic, and expand the art.
If you want to make very powerful representatives of these races, instead of giving them racial powers, I would just give them lots of class levels. Batrachi might have levels in noble, in cleric, wizard, mystic theurge, fighter or any of a number of various classes. Aearee might favor druid levels, or rune-based classes. Octopoids were as diverse as humans and might have levels in any class, though I think some of them might have specialized in summoning elementals, elemental creatures and genies.
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| jordanz |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 17:36:49
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
I saw another thread on this in the "Running the Realms" forum I believe.
My question is, if someone plans on running a game during these ancient times, you will need the stats of the Creator Races. At least stats on the Sarrukh, Batrachi, Aearee, and maybe the titans. And also the original aquatic creator race Gray speaks of.
What stats would the Titans use? Is there a difference between the extraplanar titan and the Torilian titan? Did titans of the planes inhabit Faerun or did some of the titans of Faerun left to inhabit the planes?
Excellent questions. Just to piggy back... Was Ostoria already established when the creator races decided to move from the oceans to land? Gary if you are reading this, what are your thoughts? |
| Razz |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 04:32:00
I saw another thread on this in the "Running the Realms" forum I believe.
My question is, if someone plans on running a game during these ancient times, you will need the stats of the Creator Races. At least stats on the Sarrukh, Batrachi, Aearee, and maybe the titans. And also the original aquatic creator race Gray speaks of.
What stats would the Titans use? Is there a difference between the extraplanar titan and the Torilian titan? Did titans of the planes inhabit Faerun or did some of the titans of Faerun left to inhabit the planes?
What about the Batrachi and Aeraee? Clearly the Sarrukh stats given in Serpent Kingdom are testament to how mighty they were, so that would mean the other creator races would have to be equal in power on average mentally, physically, and supernaturally, especially going toe to toe with each other.
I'd love to see a write up for them one day...preferable in 3E stats. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 10 Oct 2012 : 10:17:25
I never said I owned the IP. Not sure how you got that idea. Even if I was, I still couldn't tell people how to play their games.
I really was curious as to why prehistoric Realms, as opposed to just prehistoric. Sorry if you thought otherwise.
You did give me an idea for interesting twist in a 'stranded on another world' campaign.  |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 10 Oct 2012 : 09:25:21
You are not in charge of my campaign or anyone else's campaign, Markus. You are also not the owner of the 'FORGOTTEN REALMS' IP. You are just some guy.
But if you actually are curious, I happen to like the prehistory of the Realms.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 17 Sep 2012 : 18:32:59
I'd actually place him as some sort of demon-figure from the Batrachi mythos. He may have predated them, but I can see him being construed as some sort of 'fiend from the depths'.
BTW, just out of curiosity to the OP - why bother? Technically, the world that existed back then isn't the same world FR takes place on - it was Abeir-Toril (which was torn asunder and both halves rebuilt). That far back, what is the point of even calling it an FR campaign? Wouldn't it just be a prehistoric campaign?
I'm not being facetious or anything - I just don't get it. Wouldn't a more generic setting be less constricting? Or is part of the fun applying FR's prehistory to the world? (in which case, you could really do that to any world). I am just wondering why it would even be considered an FR game set back then, since nothing about the current setting really applies.
I could just as easily run a Space Opera (Traveler) campaign and say the world is Toril, even if it looks completely different (I could just say it takes place 30K+ years into the future). At that point, I am just making stuff up and saying it is FR - whats the difference?
Just curious is all - not trying to be a jerk or anything. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 17 Sep 2012 : 17:55:23
I'm not sure, but I think Iakhovas predates (in both senses) humans. I think he was around even before the Days of Thunder, when the surface of the seas were covered in ice, and land was not yet known on Toril.
I see him as a descendant of the first life in the oceans, not a creation of the aquatic creator race, but a mutation perhaps. A unique being, a were-megalodon. Or maybe he started out as normal megalodon, but then something extraordinary happened to him that gifted him with enduring life and the ability to shift his form.
Honestly, I'm not sure I feel qualified to speculate. Perhaps Iakhovas himself might have some insight; I wouldn't want to tread on territory on which Brian James has a special claim.  |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 17 Sep 2012 : 16:23:33
Just a thought, what research I've seen on him shows Iakhovas (the wereshark from the threat from the sea trilogy) as coming from near this time. I wonder if the creator races created Iakhovas from human stock of the time period? |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 17 Sep 2012 : 06:40:00
Some more thoughts I had about the post-transformation Batrachi: The Batrachi were transformed by Ramenos in an act of epic magic from sea-dwelling octopoid creatures into vertebrate, amphibious, frog-like humanoids sometime around –33,500 DR, or maybe a little before. By -33,500 DR they had risen out of the seas and swept rapidly across the lands of Merrouroboros. The Batrachi rose to dominance in the vacuum left by the decline and somnolence of the Sarrukh.
Note, the name "Batrachi" is from the Greek word for "frog" and is a term that I use to refer solely to the frog-like, post-metamorphosis Batrachi race. I refer to the pre-transformation octopoids as the aquatic creator race, or simply as octopoids. Not all the authors use the terms in the same way, which may cause some confusion. However, I think it's an important distinction to make.
I doubt the term "Batrachi" is a word that the race themselves used. Rather, I suggest it is a term used by human scholars to refer to the ancient race. It's a place-holder name we use until we learn what name(s) they called themselves in their own languages.
To be sure, the aquatic creator race would not even have had a name pronounceable by humans; their language was silent. They "spoke" by means of flashing colors and patterns produced by chromatophores in their skin.
If it is true that the neraphim that live in the Supreme Throne are descendants of the Batrachi who escaped Tearfall, it may be that the name the Batrachi called themselves in their own tongue sounded like some variant of "neraph" or "neraphim."
After their metamorphosis, the Batrachi were no less dependent on water. However, a result of the transformation was that the Batrachi were no longer as tolerant of salt water. They could thrive on land, but continued to need access to abundant fresh water, or at least brackish water, in order to bathe and moisten their skin, and most importantly in which to lay their eggs. Though they might be able to survive several days at a time without access to water, it was essential for their reproductive cycle.
In the humid climes of the south, the Batrachi tended to have more glistening, moist skin, usually in various shades of bright green but often accented in vivid colors or patterns. Southern Batrachi flourished in jungle environments and their descendants today are the racial offshoots known as grippli.
In the colder, drier, northern regions, the Batrachi developed a drier skin to protect them from desiccation. They appeared more akin to toads, or bullfrogs, with darker, earthier and blander coloring. They preferred to build their settlements within and along the shores of rivers, lakes, and especially wetlands. Though they had some coastal cities, these tended to develop at river deltas or where the mouths of streams or rivers joined the sea. The modern descendants of this branch of the Batrachi are the bullywugs and sivs.
The Batrachi were quite accomplished at great waterworks. They built canals and aqueducts to bring water from great distances. They built dams to flood plains and valleys to create artificial lakes and wetlands. When they did settle in more remote places, away from large bodies of water, they would only do so if there was access to adequate water from springs or wells. Although, it was not unknown for them to use create water spells, magical items or portals to access the water they needed.
Few of these great works survive to this day. 30,000 years have reduced most of the aqueducts to rubble, burst the dams, and filled the great canals with silt and soil.
Batrachi dwellings and cities tended to rise up out of lakes and rivers; half submerged in water, they were built as much below the surface as above. The amphibious Batrachi were equally comfortable in or out of water, and their architecture reflects this. Often their slender glass towers, barely poking out from beneath the waves, were only the visible tip of great labyrinthine warrens that were built on the lake beds, river beds or in the murky swamp waters below. Perhaps some Batrachi labyrinths have survived to modern times; maybe under a farmer's field that was once a dried-up lake bottom. Maybe the tip of a crystalline tower is just waiting to be exposed by a farmer’s plow.
I surmise that the four smaller inner seas, that existed prior to when the Sea of Fallen Stars was gouged out by Tearfall, were much less salty than the larger inner sea we know today. They may have even been freshwater "great lakes." They were obviously very desirable real estate from the Batrachi perspective, which is what brought them into conflict with the Jotunbrud Tribes to the northeast.
Brian James had some thoughts on the Batrachi nations which he posted awhile back. If you look on the Days of Thunder map on p.6 of the Grand History of the Realms (circa -31,500 DR) you see the label "Batrachi Empires." We should take this to mean there were more than one. The Batrachi were not a monolithic race. The Batrachi had many nations of varying degrees of power, magic, and technological achievement. And these nations and empires waxed and waned over time.
Among the nations that are labeled on the map, you find Kolophoon, Zhoukoudien, Boitumelo, and Nadezhda. I take these to be the most prominent political powers of the day, but not necessarily the only ones around at the time.
Zhoukoudien is the empire ruled by a Batrachi who is himself named Zhoukoudien. He styled himself the High One. The Grand History calls him a wise leader, but I do not take that to mean good or kind. He was assassinated by the titan thane Omo. They were an aggressive nation and their wars with the titans resulted in the Tearfall that brought their doom.
I see Zhoukoudien as a theocracy. The High One himself was not just the Emperor, but also the absolute spiritual authority of the Ramenite hierarchy. Something like a Caliph, seen as Ramenos's appointed representative on Toril. The empire was ruled locally by thearchs, sort of like bishop-governors that had absolute authority over their assigned districts. Any who opposed the thearchs found themselves sacrificed in the fiery maw of a Ramenite altar.
Zhoukoudien was apparently unnaturally long-lived, meeting death only by assassination. And his canny leadership helped grow his empire into a formidable power that enslaved many smaller nations and less powerful races, including tribes of humans and Aearee.
To the east, we find Kolophoon. Brian suggested that this nation was ruled by the Kolophoon Sovreignty, where aboleths ruled supreme over their kopru and froghemoth servitors. Brian suggests that early Batrachi opened gates to the Far Realm, unleashing the first aberrations upon Abeir-Toril.
I imagine that the Batrachi themselves were either twisted by pseudo-natural forces into the first froghemoths, or the aboleths intentionally twisted the Batrachi into froghemoths to suit their alien whims or aesthetic. Another possibility is that the froghemoths resulted from interbreeding between Batrachi and aboleths or other aberrations that came through the rifts to the Far Realms.
Kolophoon may have started out as a Batrachi nation, but by -31,500 DR it was firmly under aboleth rule. In the beginning, the aboleths may have been allies. Then the powers behind the throne. And finally, what Batrachi that remained had become pitiful subjects of their aberrant masters.
Brian suggests that the region labeled Boitumelo was a loose confederation of nations peopled by tribes of kappa, sivs, and grippli. I'm imagining something like the modern Dales, or maybe like the Native American tribes in pre-Columbian North America.
Brian suggests that Nadezhda was a region settled by human tribes that were infiltrated, dominated and then mostly supplanted by doppelgangers. Later, the region would in turn be conquered by Aearee.
Brian sees Pourounkorokale as the longest lived of the nations of the aquatic creator race, existing entirely beneath the southern waters of the Black Sea (aka the modern day Shining Sea). It was a once great nation of the pre-metamorphosis aquatic creator race. Following the transformation of their brethren by Ramenos, Pourounkorokale was ruled by tako, a subrace of octopoids who resisted the change into the amphibious Batrachi. They kept their crystalline cities and ruled over tribes of kuo-toa, locathah, and what other octopoid survivors remained of the aquatic creator race. Brian writes that Pourounkorokale survived the Tearfall and long outlived the fall of their land-dwelling Batrachi cousins. However, the tako were nearly driven extinct in a later war against conquering seawurms after a terrible betrayal by sahuagin allies. The surviving tako fled west, through the Strait of Lopango to the Sea of Corynactis (west of modern day Maztica) and as far as Kara-Tur — where their descendants can still be found today. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Sep 2012 : 23:43:05
And if you think this stuff is cool, wait until the 'Nights of Lightening' thread. |
| Razz |
Posted - 11 Sep 2012 : 18:26:20
Wow, so cool...who needs WotC when we have talent here at Candlekeep? |
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