| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 21:17:32
I'm curious to learn what sages here make of the region, and if anyone has used it in play.
Do you get a lot of use out of the AD&D 2E FR series sourcebook?
The H series modules?
What sets it apart from the Savage Frontier?
Do you want to see more adventures, stories, etc set in the Bloodstone Lands?
I have some ideas stewing about a somewhat modified presenation of the region. It doesn't really follow the modules or the sourcebook, but it does take some elements from those sources.
Proposed (definitely not canonical) changes to Damara:
• Damaran culture includes some Tibetan and Syrian influences, without closely resembling any real world culture. Literary stuff from Talbot Mundy and REH mixed in to taste. I’m talking about yak herders, flapped hats, buttered tea to stave off the terrible chill, abominable snowmen, The Black Seers of Yimsha, crazed hashisheenin dressed in long fur coats and wielding crooked knives, the solar mountain deity El-Gabal/Heliogabulus, etc. I may do a little mix-n-match with bits taken from the Bloodstone Lands sourcebook and the Hordelands boxed set.
Chondathan and Illuskan settlers, traders, and miners bring the more familiar ‘Western Fantasy’ elements into the mix.
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| coach |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 02:41:20
Tiamat would be an option because she has a canon temple in Vaasa... i'll have to get that book out to see if they jad a breath weapon |
| Razz |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 21:00:46
The white scales dragonmen is easy; half-white dragon and half-dragon kin. Though if they did not use a breath weapon then I say give them those dragon touched feats and choose white dragon or maybe just the draconic template. It's possible they can also be White Dragonspawn of Tiamat, which breed I can't recall. Sounds like it could be a new breed entirely |
| coach |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 18:53:16
add Kond to the list above of post 3e Vaasa canon |
| coach |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 18:49:09
ok missing in Vaasa from the DEMONLANDS 4e link from a few posts up:
LOCALE - TYPE - SOURCE(S)
Icerun Glacier - Glacier - FRCS p110 (i see an Ice Run road on that map so close by mayhap)
Castle D'Aerthe - Keep -(PotWK p115-119,157-164,181)(RotP p43,140) "within sight of Palischuk" "few miles north of Palischuk"
Hot Springs - Spring - FR9 map
Skelem - ruins - (MotM p117-121) "20 miles south of Bloodstone Pass in the Galena foothills"
Cult of the Dragon enclave - hideout - (Ruin p285-286) "Located northeast of The Ride"
Mountainshadow Bog - bog - (RoS p100,110) "Located in the shadows of the Peaks of the Dragonmen"
Peaks of the Dragonmen - mountains - (RoS p110)
and of course the correct placement of the Granite Tower as mentioned above
Deadman Pass - mountain pass -(RoS p94) [connects Vaasa to The Ride]
(for Underdark Map) Unnamed subsurface tunnel - tunnel - (PGFR p120-125) [connect Thar to Vaasa/Damara]
and lastly there is a Pass that connects Skelem to Darmshall (MotM map)
will post later what is missing in the eastern Galenas/western Damara/Great Glacier
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| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 05:34:50
Like THIS? That map is still missing a few (mostly near the Moonsea).
EDIT: Dang! Just realized most of Vassa is missing on that - damn FRIA has a bad map-break at that point. Also a bunch of forests missing from the original between Bloodstone Pass and Valls, which ONLY appear in the first few BS (pre-FR) products. LOL... BS = "Bloodstone"... not the other thing. 
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
There are some locales and geographic terrain in the 4E Dragon Magazine map you just posted that, according to the FR designers, have always been there. There's a few that are purely 4E. I'm sure you two, of course, have a post- and pre-Spellplague Map Notes.
Maybe marking areas on the map with a small red asterisk will be useful in identifying something post-Spellplague?
My maps are circa 1372 DR, which means they would include 4e locales that would have been there prior to the Spellplague (there are a number of those, all throughout Faerûn).
There will be at least three versioins of the map - 'naked', settlements and geographic features only, and a 'DMs map' with 'places of interest' (adventure sites).
I am also considering a fourth and possibly a fifth version. One for homebrew locales (which would include many I've gotten from other people over the years, and even a number I've gotten from here at CK). However, as Garen Thal put it, "thats dangerous", so I will have to consider that CAREFULLY. Then maybe an Underdark/Undersea variant (because the map gets VERY busy when I include all the subterranean/subsea locales). I'm still undecided - I may just do the first two in my standard format, and then have the rest in one layered pdf (which is a way of possibly alleviating the confusion with homebrew locations). |
| coach |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 00:51:41
When i get the chance i'll post the older FR edition locales in Vaasa that are missing on the 4e map |
| coach |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 00:50:04
In Vaasa
Citadel of the Collector
Modurt
Lake Throm
Moloth Caldera
Telos City
Cinnabar Wastes
Clefts of Razack
Maur Eturo
Etuabe
Avang
Haatar Baen
Are all post 3e canon ... mayhap some were there all along but they are not sourced
There are also several new spots in the Great Glacier
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| Razz |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 23:46:36
There are some locales and geographic terrain in the 4E Dragon Magazine map you just posted that, according to the FR designers, have always been there. There's a few that are purely 4E. I'm sure you two, of course, have a post- and pre-Spellplague Map Notes.
Maybe marking areas on the map with a small red asterisk will be useful in identifying something post-Spellplague? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 21:56:48
I've gotten Vaasa much closer to the original as well (with a minor tweak to bring-in the pre-FR Bloodstone maps).
Homebrew:
I figure that when 'The Collector' arrived (from the east, if he is based on who I think he is), he decided he wanted the Granite tower for his own*, and offered the inhabitants the old WK fortress instead, which was actually somewhat outside of the WK sphere of influence, which they preferred. Before becoming the Warlock Knights post-plague, they were merely Eldritch Knights, and were more like a 'Helfire Club' secretive group. That just about fixes everything.
*He is NOT a 'people person', and enjoys the remote location. The Collector's Fortress is an ideal spot for the old Granite Tower, because of the Darksword story. the collector also happens to be the type who believes in frugality of resources; there is no need to kill someone when they may prove useful in the future (especially if they owe you a favor - I am sure he would have convinced them the 'deal' was for their sake). |
| coach |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 21:48:41
Markus, when you get to the locales of Bloodstone on you Map to Rule Them All, i'll pitch in with all the places i have on my outline!! |
| coach |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 21:45:18
also on that map of Vaasa, Fugue is too far away from Vaasan Gate
it was named "Fugue" by Damaran adventurers because you were in the area between Heaven and Hell - as in, once you left Damara (heaven) via the Vaasan Gate and went thru Fugue to Vaasa (hell)
canon says the tent town is "in the shadow of the Vaasan gate" |
| coach |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 21:32:55
Granite Tower also mentioned in the RotA trilogy
IINM Vala and Galadorn moved back into the Granite Tower after RotA trilogy, so that woulda been the last inhabitants pre-spellplague, so could make sense
I have the Granite tower near the "Peaks of the Dragonmen" (wherever that is) so I just assumed (maybe wrongly) that they were closer to the Western Galenas as IIRC the white-scaled dragonmen flew out from the peaks to attack the Vaasans and also it mentioned continuous fog and another mentioned placed was Mountainshadow Bog ... so it always seems to match up
here is what I have (sorry for the jumbled numbers and letters, just copy/pasting from an outline):
20. Mountainshadow Bog (RoS p100)
a. Crossed by human clans only during dense foggy conditions so Dragonmen can’t see to attack (RoS p100)
b. Located in the shadows of the Peaks of the Dragonmen [Western Galenas?]
(RoS p100,110)
21. Peaks of the Dragonmen (RoS p110)
22. Granite Tower (Summ p19,117,123) (Sorc p339)
a. 20 noble families of the Moor Eagle clan live here (Summ p19,73,84-85)
b. Made of dark black granite (Summ p73)
k. Twenty noble Moor Eagle families live in the Granite Tower (Summ p19,73,84-85) - built by Melegaunt Tanthul (RoS96-121) (Summ p116-117)
i. Held together by the Oath of Bodvar (Summ p73, 116-117) - in return for service at a later time [when Shade reyurns], Melegaunt built the Moor Eagle clan an impregnable keep of black granite and armed 20 warriors with 20 darkswords (Summ p116-117) (Sorc p107-108,156)
l. Galaeradon and Takari [elves] [Moor Eagles by marriage living in the Granite Tower] (Sorc p339) (Summ) (Siege) (Sorc)
38. Whitescales [dragonmen] (RoS p100,105,108-110,119)
a. Live in the Peaks of the Dragonmen (RoS p110)
b. Called “whitescales” by Vaasans, their race is dragonmen (RoS p119)
c. Scaly white bodied, wings, long pointed tails, craggy saurian heads, long snouts, swept-back horns, huge yellow eyes (RoS p105,108)
d. Use curved swords, some cast spells, dive with sun at their backs toward enemies for surprise (RoS p105,108-109)
e. Same as "Dragonkin" found in Monsters of Faerun or Draconomicon?
f. Also called saurians (Sorc p288)
e. Her darksword can contact Granite Tower by Dreamwalking (Summ p123) (Siege p61) |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 20:38:15
I've not typed this in many years: WOOT! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 20:14:19
You are going to love my new map.
I wish I wasn't such a perfectionist - I should have started placing locales a month ago. 
My problem ATM is that I want Cormyr PERFECT, and I have over-layed ALL the Cormyr maps on top of each other, and they don't always agree with each other (and that's not even including the 3e/4e 9.2° the maps were rotated). 'The Neck' has changed considerably since 1e. The funny thing is, only a small portion of Cormyr shows on the map I am doing first (Western Heartlands), but I have to complete ALL of Cormyr so the map pieces later line-up correctly. I got a lot done yesterday, hopefully I can finsh the geography today and move on.
Thar will look much more like its older 1e/2e version when I am done, as will everything else. I am trying to complete all of these before a canon 5e map is released, so that the artist doing those has a perfect reference to work from (because I have literally combined every single FR map ever made in layers to get it all perfect). Thar lives!  |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 19:55:08
I really don't like that map...it "smooshes" Thar...and Thar is the home I love... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 19:35:20
We are in agreement - I just ignore the primordial part, and don't make the Warlock Knights so monolithic: They have a fortress in the Gelenas and exert some control over the region, but as of yet do not want to openly challenge Damara's claim on Vaasa (which I am not even sure if I would use - I didn't really care for The Sellswords lore).
I would also use Rich Baker's take on Hulburg (in the 3e era though), and the warlock Knight stuff from those novels is still useable with the take I gave them above.
The two versions aren't necessarily incapable, either. The WK could have been a small, clandestine group up until the spellplague, and then whatever 'artifact' they had found could have been awakened by the plague and they could have become the more openly known group of 4e. Thus, no-one really knew about them, and then they got a sudden boost in power, and then they became the official version. it all works. (and 5e design team feel free to use that - I am trying to blend the editions as much as possible on these boards).
Brian James has already stated that the Granite Tower placement on the 4e Demonlands map is incorrect (because of the lore in the short story Darksword, by Troy Denning). It should have been in or near the Bottomless Bogs. That means that location may have been the original Fortress of the Warlock Knights. We can easily make up some story on how the folk of the Granite Tower were chased from their original location, found the old WK fortress and renamed it (as of 4e). That covers the continuity glitch and establishes a location for a 3e era WK group. |
| coach |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 19:10:01
it was a Tear of Selune or something like that from that 1e story
the Great Glacier has so many different canon references to why it is/was receding/growing/both and you mentioned one of the canon 'guesses' as to why this is happening
for example i just looked over a source today that had the Sossrim druid covens responsible for the receding of the GG
still suspension of disbelief (for me anyways) that this alien resided there for a couple centuries and a 30th level witchking didn't use it to his advantage, but to each his own, i have no problem with anyone else rolling with it
i have no problem with the concept of warlock knights and i like them too, also a side issue with me of about 8 or 9 epic level characters who were powers in the area are vanished/gone/dead and we have no stories about that - so i felt i would keep my campaign in pre-1380s
but enough about me!!! LOL i just thought it'd be a good idea in my first post above to post that it was MY idea to keep my info from 1e to 3e in the Bloodstone Lands so i just posted a warning as to the timeline of my post because when someone new to the area read the CANON THEMES part i wanted them to know it was pre-spellplague. i sure don't want to go to another 3e vs 4e FR thread, i was just trying to help the OP. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 18:47:42
It is pre-4e canon that 'something' slammed into Toril in that region (see the story-arc in the 2e Player's guide to the Forgotten Realms). This happened just around the time of 1e (because in the 2e story, it happened already and they are looking for whatever it is).
There is also a canon meteoroic event discussed in The Great Glacier, also in that same area. This I connect to the melting of part of the glacier, and the 'release' of Vassa from the ice. I don't have my notes anymore, but it happened a few centuries past, IIRC. The timing is perfect, even if we include Melegaunt's tromp through that region around the 1200's.
Two canon events about something large slamming into Toril, LONG before the Spellplague. I like the Warlock Knights, and would use them, and I can easily back-port them into my games because of the above canon. It doesn't have to be a primordial - it could be an elder evil, or even some sort of artifact. Its all good.
If you don't like primordials, simply ignore them. They really don't effect anything that can't be spun a different way. For instance, if I ever run FR again (still on the fence about that one), I would create a composite out of the Abeir/Maztica material, and just say it was the draconic pantheon that returned to Toril - no need for the 'Clash of the Titans' scenario.
EDIT: BTW, like your outline. I will be following this.  |
| coach |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 18:38:12
I thought i put this in which verifies the "feudal" feel to the area but the typical town is rural, frontier-like and guarded by a lord’s keep or fortified abbey |
| coach |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 18:31:02
OK, i have a BUNCH more info (over 100 pages of canon info outline) than what I am about to post so if anyone has any specific questions about any of the persons/places/things in the Bloodstone Lands just post here and i'll answer everyone. NOTE: I have stopped my canon outline at the spellplague as I had a problem suspending my disbelief when WotC added the mysterious otherwordly alien that the warlock knights sapped strength from and it didn't jive with my ideas of the area, but for a general pre-4e overview:
The Bloodstone Lands were not Ed Greenwood's baby, they are adopted (retconned) from the H-series modules of the 1980's and placed into the area just south and east of the Great Glacier. They have a different feel than the Heartlands but with a little work it can be Realmsified.
Generally, The Bloodstone Lands refer to Damara and Vaasa, but depending on the source, they can include Narfell, the Great Glacier, Sossal, and the underdark region in the area called Deepearth. They also are referred to in some sources as The Cold Lands
CANON THEMES and CAMPAIGN IDEAS that can be used in the Bloodstone area(pre-4e):
1)Good vs Evil - you are either one or the other
2)War torn society - 4 wars in last half century (most commonfolk have a level in warrior/fighter)
3)Civil War - the bloodline ruler (evil) vs the ruler by deed (good)
4)Old-school powers - Orcus, Tiamat, Bahamut, Eltab and the Cult of the Dragon have temples/cults in the region and are major forces
5)Establishing and defending Stronghold - Gareth is trying to tame Vaasa and is offering land grants to groups to build keeps
6)Paladins rule - Monarchy (king is an epic level paladin of Ilmater, Ilmater-based Paladin orders are the troops, church-run schools for all city dwelling children, Yellow Rose monks) Every community in Damara supports at least one chapel
7)Unique cities: Half-orc city pop 10000+ halforcs, a town where goblins/kobolds/orcs/humans/dwarves/etc all exist peacefully
8) All men are created equal - Class divisions less notable than in anywhere on Faerun, other than Royalty and Paladins being referred to as “Sir” or “Milord”
9) Bounty Hunting - Damara will fund adventuring into Vaasa with gold offered for the returned ears of goblins/orcs/giants/and even dragons
Damara is the main focus of the area and has the most sourced canon. Damara is more "feudal" (IMO) than both Impiltur and Cormyr, and there is a worldview on the moral absolute between good vs evil. In Damara, evil will never be compromised with, even for the greater good. In other words, "the ends justify the means" will find no place in Damara. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 20:58:12
WoW - it almost looks like fantasy version of the Power Rangers. I have no recollection of this series at all.
Great find (even if it had nothing to do with what I was talking about).
EDIT: Thanks Dark Wizard {sarcasm}
I am now painfully aware of both 'Fat Bottomed Power Puff Girls' and 'Striperella'. There's a reason why I avoid Youtube like the plague.
 |
| Dark Wizard |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 20:12:20
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
That being said, I think something like 'Mystic Knights' might work as a unique type of Paladin for Impiltur. 'Psionic Paladin' sounds just gawd-awful, but if spun correctly the concept itself can be pretty interesting. Their devotion to a 'higher idea'l has unlocked powers of the mind (although they would consider it a 'gift from the gods').
Cool - you guys just took two things I dislike and turned them into something I can use.
Mystic Knights you say?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxCg26VZ0bQ&feature=related |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 19:11:16
Not a big fan of psionics (that ranks right up there with aberrations and Spelljamming for me).
However, I have come to the conclusion thats it s really (mostly) the terminology that bothers the heck out of me. Just like how I feel about SJ - if its retooled to be 'sailing through the astral' then it works for me. I don't like it when my (D&D) fantasy seems to Scify-ish (although in novels I don't mind so much... up to a point). I have decided that my Realms has psionics, but that the term 'Mystic' (or Mysticism) is used instead ('Mind-Mage' is just too jarring). Its not a perfect fit, but I think its the best fantasy-sounding term for what psionicists do.
That being said, I think something like 'Mystic Knights' might work as a unique type of Paladin for Impiltur. 'Psionic Paladin' sounds just gawd-awful, but if spun correctly the concept itself can be pretty interesting. Their devotion to a 'higher ideal' has unlocked powers of the mind (although they would consider it a 'gift from the gods').
Cool - you guys just took two things I dislike and turned them into something I can use.
*Grammatical corrections |
| Razz |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 19:00:08
Wouldn't Chondathans have a higher rate of spawning naturally psionic people since Chondathans have mostly Jhaamdath blood? |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 10:49:34
Sage is correct as always. The Mirandor Dynasty, Impiltur's first, was initially of pure Jhaamdathi stock and brought with it the worship of Murdane (Auppenser not so much) to the lands of the Easting Reach. The reason for Murdane was that the Invisible Art seemed to run through more of the female bloodlines than the males, and they gravitated more to the Daughter of Reason than her dad. Where the Invisible Art manifested in the male line, more often than not, it lead to issues of mental instability - issues that blighted the reign of King Varanth I, for example.
While psionics remain rare throughout the Realms, they are ever so slightly more common in the lands of Impiltur for this reason. In more isolated regions of the kingdom (some of the village clusters in the foothills of the Earthfast Mountains), the prevalence rate increases again.
As for doing an article "now", I think that I want to see what 5E brings to the Realms generally, before doing so. Whilst I could work with the 4E developments to the land and massage them into something interesting, I'd prefer to wait and see what the Sundering will bring to the environs of the Reach.
If I get to GEN-CON next year, I plan to bring some goodies for the C-Keep get together. I have no doubt that this will include lore on Impiltur and the East generally.
-- George Krashos
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| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 02:24:15
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
Psionics in Impiltur?
Hmmmm, anybody know more about that?
Well, we know Impiltur's first dynasty had a few [hidden] psions who ruled the realm. That is, before the Jhaamdathan bloodline was weakened by intermarriage with the local Nar population.
Krash will likely have more. |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 19:59:53
Psionics in Impiltur?
Hmmmm, anybody know more about that?
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| combatmedic |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 19:56:41
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Snowblood
http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d2y467o
The above link will give you a little thing I threw together for the Bloodstone land dwarves.........
I don't have time to read all of it now, but I did skim it. I'm impressed!
BTW, I am a big fan of dwarves.
 |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 19:23:18
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't mind Vassa (as it is now), but Damara and Impiltur need an overhaul (sorrow GK), not just because they are redundant with each other, but they are redundant with a lot of other places (like Cormyr - when you have Cormyr, whats the point of Impiltur?)
I assume you mean "Sorry GK".
Why are you sorry for me? Have I chosen a dud kingdom to write about?
Yes, it was supposed to be 'sorry' (I've edited that post).
What I mean is that I am sorry I never cared for it, because I know how much you love it and all the work you've put into it. I think my real problem with it is that its too far away from where I run most of my games to be of any use.
So I moved it.
EDIT: Thats Dambrath on the northern Moonsea - I forgot to tag it. The regular Moonsea cities would go along that 'arm'. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 17:30:58
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
There was this jump from 2E Damara to 3E Damara that left out that entire part where Gareth had about half the baronies on his side, and Dimian Ree had the other half on his. Though Gareth was crowned king, you still had a nation torn between him and Dimian, who rightfully had the throne by blood ties to the last king. They never had a timeline of events of how that situation got solved. One edition there's still warfare going on, the next edition it ended up somehow resolved and no mention of what became of the losers, like Dimian Ree.
According to Road of the Patriarch, Gareth allowed the other barons to continue to rule in their baronies, but he asserted himself over them as he saw fit. There's a scene in which Gareth orders the hangings of several associates of the Citadel of Assassins in the streets of Heliogabalus, without consulting with Dimian first. The baron objects, of course, but the king, surrounded by his epic band of friends, basically stares him down and dares him. Dimian grovels and submits. |
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