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T O P I C    R E V I E W
ericlboyd Posted - 12 Aug 2012 : 01:20:42
Hey all,

If you are a Candlekeep scribe doing Deneir's work at GenCon, use this scroll to announce what you hear, what you see, and what you think!

Hope to chat with lots of folks in attendance.

---Eric
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Markustay Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 00:52:30
The 'Core' (Council of Realms Experts) concept would work - nearly all the guys contributing to the lore would help each other with proof-reading. From what I gathered from Brian and Matt James, and certain others, a lot of this is already going on, but unofficially. It's basically a second (and third, and fourth, etc) set of eyes to look over everything.

Since this would be about making the Realms better (and producing lore fans want, and money for those willing to provide it), it would really be a team effort.

And BTW, I thought Ed was wearing the 'Realms traffic cop' hat now? Maybe thats a hat he (and many others here, including yourself) can share in? Instead of hat, maybe its shoes - and you know the saying, 'those are some mighty big shoes to fill'. Realmslore by consensus - I think that could work if everyone were on board. If Ed's steering Realms design now (which was said), then he should be able to okay anything before it goes public (and if he knows the half dozen proof-readers used, he could trust in their opinions).
George Krashos Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 08:44:54
Your suggestion has merit but it would require an FR traffic cop, and I don't think WotC have the headcount for such a role these days. An external traffic cop would work. Except for the fact that the are external!

-- George Krashos
Markustay Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 03:51:07
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

There was some stuff discussed at the con about designer-inspired products, rather then company-driven ones, and the best ways to market said products. A 'director's cut' Hauntd Halls was mentioned as part of this.

I know a bit more about this myself, but can't say more. My own take (which I suggested to them) was 'just put it out there, and let the fans decide if they want to see more of that'. You may see a surprising new option available soon to us; lore for lore sake, written by people who care, and available in s sort-of pay-as-you-go format (the details of which are still far from being sorted out, as is just about everything else at this point). Lots of ideas were being tossed around, but as of yet we have nothing concrete.



Alright, thanks, Markus! The last bit sounds mysterious, sort of like how DDI (or those kickstarter projects) works now. Anyway, I think Haunted Halls would not interest just FR fans; a well-written campaign adventure is valuable to any DM/GM. And Eveningstar is a great location in which to start your first FR campaigns.
There was one particular 'thing' that this discussion revolved around, and it was extrapolated forward for similar 'products'. Ed Greenwood specifically mentioned The Haunted Halls as a possible candidate for this sort of treatment.

Picture a designer - completely on their own - fully detailing and fleshing-out an entire campaign area that could keep you players busy for weeks, even months. Not something commissioned by WotC - something created by designers we trust and respect, who do this for the sheer love of the setting. Then picture them showing said 'love child' to WotC, and them saying, "Oh man, thats freakin' cool... we should sell that!".

There are tons and tons of thing we would love to see, and they would love to produce, but that the parent-company would have conniptions over because the products are so focused and not as guaranteed as other products (like another Cormyr book, and other Menzo book, another book on The North, etc). This is why we don't see a lot of this - if similar products got relatively low numbers in the past, they don't want to commit to them.

So take that out of the equation - zero commitment on their part. The work gets produced independently, they just check it for continuity problems and editing, and they put it on their site (in the same professional format that other 'print' products have been released in). I'm not talking about 'fan-fics' becoming canon, I'm talking about guys who have already produced awesome (and much-loved) sourcebooks doing their own FR sourcebooks. WotC makes them canon, and offers them on their site for a trivial download price ($1-3 depending on the size), and splits the money with the producer.

No cost to them, money in the pocket for the person who created the lore out of pure love, and we get lots and lots of lore on people, places, and things we would never have gotten.

That is how I would like to see things move forward, and what I suggested to James Wyatt (who was being shouted so many suggestions over the course of four days he may not even remember). I have seen some great stuff produced here by several designers, both in the CK compendiums and out (in their own threads), and I think it would be awesome if they could continue to do that for us, make it all official, and put a little money in their pockets for all their trouble.

And the bottom line is, that would cost WotC NOTHING, could make them a lot of money in the long run, and they lose nothing if there is no interest. Lore for lore sake - let the fans decide what they want and what they don't want. Thats what I meant by my last 'mysterious' comment. Of course, this means that a renewed CK compendium could be considered a 'farm team' for future projects. Imagine a 'best of CKC' being published on the WotC site as downloadable (and canon) source.

This is my own private dream, and nothing at all (about anything) is a definite at this point - mine was just one of many viewpoints being tossed around (inspired by conversations and certain other things I know exist, and really needs the proper forum for their release). Their is so much great material floating around out there that Wizbro is afraid to publish (afraid of further losses), and its a damn shame none of it is seeing the light of day. This goes for much of the 'cutting room floor' material as well.

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I would love to see WotC grab a detailed (and yet not super-detailed) city like Silverymoon, Suzail or Baldur's Gate and give it a Ptolus-style treatment. I'd always thought that this would be rather nifty.
What do you think of my suggestion above?

YOU produce it, and let the people decide if they want it. No risk for the company, and opportunity for great rewards all around.

Of course, everything would have to undergo the proper editing and fine-tooth-combining by Sages of Realmslore, as usual. This set-up would be similar to what was going on in 4e with the RPGA guys, except with better scrutiny and they'd be getting paid for their efforts (provided, of course, fans wanted said lore).

It would also give new artists and, oh... I don't know... cartographers... a chance to showcase their work (because they wouldn't be getting paid - they'd be trying to establish a name for themselves in the industry). Unless professional-level artwork was done, only the writers of a product (under my proposed format) would get a percentage of the sales. Professional artists, of course, MUST be compensated (because guys like Mike Shley are the bomb), but that could all be worked-out on a per-product basis (since I expect some multi-author products to roll out under this format, if successful).
Hawkins Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 02:17:07
I actually hope that they do something akin to Pathfinder's Community Use Package. Seeing as it is the strongest roleplaying game brand out there right now, it seems to show that something like this does not hurt (and maybe even helps) a brand.
The Sage Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 01:55:27
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

Also of note is that WotC will be freeing up a new game content license. This doesn't mean we will ever be able to use protected copyright content, but I would love to see the Compendium return.



Ditto. I've got stuff for it!

The lengthy delay between releases of the Compendium has also meant that, finally, I've been able to finish up a number of my previously promised contributions.

Neat, eh?
Wooly Rupert Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 16:48:15
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

Also of note is that WotC will be freeing up a new game content license. This doesn't mean we will ever be able to use protected copyright content, but I would love to see the Compendium return.



Ditto. I've got stuff for it!
Valor Dracos Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 16:20:51
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I would love to see WotC grab a detailed (and yet not super-detailed) city like Silverymoon, Suzail or Baldur's Gate and give it a Ptolus-style treatment. I'd always thought that this would be rather nifty.

-- George Krashos




This sort of idea is why I come here!
Hieronymous Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 16:02:54
Hrm, for some reason my forum codes aren't working properly, so ugly URLs follow.

I loved the Candlekeep collectible, very snazzy:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/684jKhWajIZfq4HRBYVVQuRcE_NI2vhm7FGDi8lRQBE?feat=directlink

They were also giving out dice bags at the D&D pavillion, and a random die for taking a picture of Lolth, e.g. my Lolthcat:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/geyt8Os5czQpkNux-eCcU-RcE_NI2vhm7FGDi8lRQBE?feat=directlink
The Sage Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 15:20:01
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

Also of note is that WotC will be freeing up a new game content license.
Now that is very good news.

I just hope Wizards will be very specific with what we can and can't use in terms of the game content license. It's part of the reason why we've been unable to move forward with the Compendium -- due to the vagaries of the current Fan Site Policy.
Razz Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 15:15:18
I just want areas that either have had little to no coverage actually get real writte treatments. I also wish to see less of Faerun nd more of other continents. Let's not do Faerun for 100 years and see only half a year's worth of material on Zhakara, Kara-Tur, Maztica, etc combined.
Matt James Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 12:38:30
Also of note is that WotC will be freeing up a new game content license. This doesn't mean we will ever be able to use protected copyright content, but I would love to see the Compendium return.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 10:45:45
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

The price tag does catch a person's eye, but remember it's like getting 4 or 5 two-hundred page sourcebooks in one shot. And buying each book separately at say normal prices of 30 bucks a pop would run 120 to 150 dollars. So even at that price a person is paying half of what they really should or would under normal circumstances. 50% savings. ;)

Not a bad deal when you consider a trip to the local pub or watering hole can easily run ya 60 dollars in one night.



While that is true, it is often easier to manage -- or at least justify -- multiple books at a lower price when the purchases are spread out.
Eilserus Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 05:46:27
The price tag does catch a person's eye, but remember it's like getting 4 or 5 two-hundred page sourcebooks in one shot. And buying each book separately at say normal prices of 30 bucks a pop would run 120 to 150 dollars. So even at that price a person is paying half of what they really should or would under normal circumstances. 50% savings. ;)

Not a bad deal when you consider a trip to the local pub or watering hole can easily run ya 60 dollars in one night.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 05:00:34
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I would love to see WotC grab a detailed (and yet not super-detailed) city like Silverymoon, Suzail or Baldur's Gate and give it a Ptolus-style treatment. I'd always thought that this would be rather nifty.

-- George Krashos




The gamer in me thinks this is a wonderful idea!

The part of me that pays the bills, however, isn't as enthusiastic about a gaming product with a Ptolus price tag... Heck, even the pdf is more expensive than most gaming material...

I was lucky to get Ptolus when I did. It's worth the price, but that's still a massice tome and a massive price tag!
Eilserus Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 04:52:35
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I would love to see WotC grab a detailed (and yet not super-detailed) city like Silverymoon, Suzail or Baldur's Gate and give it a Ptolus-style treatment. I'd always thought that this would be rather nifty.

-- George Krashos




I'd be squealing in joy like my 4 year old if this happened! Ptolus is a monster sized tome (about 800 pages), chalk full of stuff I liberally steal for my own home campaign. Truly a top notch product and one of my favorite non-Realms books.

I'd almost be tempted to say to use Waterdeep for this as you could probably fit every level of Undermountain within it too. Honestly, if I had to choose I'd want to see the Ptolus treatment done to the Great Rift as we haven't seen much from that area since the Dwarves Deep book. With that type of page count you really could detail out entire nations.

RPG drivethru has the Ptolus PDF up for 60 bucks. I'd gladly pay that for an 800 page Realms book, even if it's a digital product.
Dark Wizard Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 04:22:38
Baldur's Gate could be an ideal candidate for a Ptolus-style product given its size, location, and popularity across different media.

Edit: Punctuation.
George Krashos Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 04:17:08
I would love to see WotC grab a detailed (and yet not super-detailed) city like Silverymoon, Suzail or Baldur's Gate and give it a Ptolus-style treatment. I'd always thought that this would be rather nifty.

-- George Krashos
Asgetrion Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 00:41:59
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

There was some stuff discussed at the con about designer-inspired products, rather then company-driven ones, and the best ways to market said products. A 'director's cut' Hauntd Halls was mentioned as part of this.

I know a bit more about this myself, but can't say more. My own take (which I suggested to them) was 'just put it out there, and let the fans decide if they want to see more of that'. You may see a surprising new option available soon to us; lore for lore sake, written by people who care, and available in s sort-of pay-as-you-go format (the details of which are still far from being sorted out, as is just about everything else at this point). Lots of ideas were being tossed around, but as of yet we have nothing concrete.



Alright, thanks, Markus! The last bit sounds mysterious, sort of like how DDI (or those kickstarter projects) works now. Anyway, I think Haunted Halls would not interest just FR fans; a well-written campaign adventure is valuable to any DM/GM. And Eveningstar is a great location in which to start your first FR campaigns.
JamesLowder Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 21:33:27
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

Yeah, as soon as Ed got there, he and Jim dominated (no save) the Candlekeep seminar with their sheer charisma. Both of them in the 20s on that stat.
Cheers



Well, I do love the setting; I spent better than five years of my life working in the world for a lot of hours every day as an editor or writer. And I am fortunate enough to call many of the people who have worked in the Realms "friend," including you, Erik. That goes for a lot of the readers, too. That community aspect is one of the best things about working in a shared world.
The Red Walker Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 19:54:32
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

A random tidbit from the second Sundering panel (which was very different from the first, surprisingly so, much more artwork focused) ... the picture of Elminster on his planned Sundering cover is in front of Candlekeep!

--Eric



Not that anyone here would be interested in seeing that....we need a smiley that conveys saying please,please someone who is able, share that here

Man I wish I could have made those panels!

Thanks for sharing Eric.
ericlboyd Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 19:38:29
A random tidbit from the second Sundering panel (which was very different from the first, surprisingly so, much more artwork focused) ... the picture of Elminster on his planned Sundering cover is in front of Candlekeep!

--Eric
The Red Walker Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 19:32:34
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Curious, for those who were there: what were the freebies that were handed out at the Candlekeep meet up? Something imminently collectable?



Only if you consider an item that is lovingly crafted, replicated only a few dozen times, handed out to a lucky few, and of such surpassing awesomeness that I heard a full grown man(not me by the way), when he thought no one was looking , take his out and giggle like a school girl all the while cradling it and then softly exclaiming "myyy precccccccciiiiioooouussssss.

So one again thanks to Brian and all who made it happen!
Razz Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 18:22:54
Wish I could've made it as well. Would've been my first time at GenCon , too. Alas, I had to attend my brother's wedding. And he only lives a little over an hour away from GenCon....damn!
The Sage Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 16:05:59
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Curious, for those who were there: what were the freebies that were handed out at the Candlekeep meet up? Something imminently collectable?

Indeed, it is.

I'm in the process of providing a nifty little image of the collectable, once I get home. [And this won't be SageTime-delayed... it's too awesome for that!]
YOU were there, Sage?
No, no... The Red Walker was generous enough to provide me with an image of the Candlekeep Collectable earlier, so I thought I'd share it with those who wouldn't have also seen it.

Besides, if I'd been at Gen Con this year, you'd have known. You're one of many fellow scribes that I'd actively seek out had I the opportunity to attend the annual Convention.
Markustay Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 15:51:39
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Curious, for those who were there: what were the freebies that were handed out at the Candlekeep meet up? Something imminently collectable?

Indeed, it is.

I'm in the process of providing a nifty little image of the collectable, once I get home. [And this won't be SageTime-delayed... it's too awesome for that!]
YOU were there, Sage?

Damn, I was so busy basking in the glory of my idols I only got to meet Red Walker from here. And yeah, I forgot to mention Paul Kemp, who was also a helluva nice guy (and took the time to say Hi each time we ran into each other). Everyone was great - it was quite a treat.

As for the swag, I understand they did things differently this year, but since I have no prior experience with Gencon I don't know about that. I do know I expected something else to be a 'give away' at the CK meet, which didn't happen, so I was bit disappointed on that count, but when looking at the bigger picture its all good (that product isn't gone, its just being repurposed). The item Sage is talking about was pretty cool too. It was one of the few swag items that didn't have to be 'earned' (by playing demos - most of the vendors were doing just that).
The Sage Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 15:41:30
Okay, folks, here's the Gen Con 2012 Candlekeep Collectable Goodie.

Neat, eh?
Brimstone Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 10:29:12
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

Brimstone: Thanks for the synopsis. Yet another reason to do a bit of browsing in the Menzo book, I suppose. Is that the full extent of the Rise of the Drow plotline, or is there more supposedly on the way?


Thats pretty much the gist of it.

Some drow houses support it, then some don't. Equality with male mages!! Heresy!!

Add that Danifae is Lolth's Prophet in this has Quenthel's black spider silk lace panties in a wad...
Old Man Harpell Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 08:07:53
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

Yeah, as soon as Ed got there, he and Jim dominated (no save) the Candlekeep seminar with their sheer charisma. Both of them in the 20s on that stat.

Cheers



I do not mind saying I am almost yellow with jealousy right now. The last time I turned an unhealthy hue like this, my son had to call 911.

Once upon a time, I would have turned my nose up at anything post-4th Edition, due to the massive uphill climb it would have had. It still has the climb, but its been given climbing claws, rope, and a hefty mountaineer's axe. I really wish I could have been there to see them issuing the gear.
The Sage Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 08:01:02
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Curious, for those who were there: what were the freebies that were handed out at the Candlekeep meet up? Something imminently collectable?

Indeed, it is.

I'm in the process of providing a nifty little image of the collectable, once I get home. [And this won't be SageTime-delayed... it's too awesome for that!]
Jeremy Grenemyer Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 07:32:25
Curious, for those who were there: what were the freebies that were handed out at the Candlekeep meet up? Something imminently collectable?

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