| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| EltonJ |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 00:02:43
This is a question for mindless, small talk discussion but . . .
Where in the realms would you grow coffee?
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Sightless |
Posted - 03 May 2012 : 21:50:26
Both Ghoats and pigs will eat the plant and the beans, although ghoats have been known to spit out the beans. There's an old system in Mongolia dating back to the dark ages where clay pipes were barried through raised parts of the earth and warm air goes through them from dung brick fires. Tea is then grown there even in the early winter months (Barker, 1946). I don't know if this could work for Coffee, but the process sounds suitable, so long as the soil is proper. |
| Sightless |
Posted - 03 May 2012 : 21:37:27
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Maztica has excellent coffee. As does Turmish.
Maztica canonically is a source of coffee beans, but I'm not sure about Turmish. Even if they are noted for brewing good coffee, it does not follow that they necessarily grow the coffee beans themselves.
They could import them from Semphar or Durpar, for example. Turmish is a bit northerly for good coffee country. Not that they couldn't, just that it's unlikely that the less robust and more favoured type of plant could grow well there.
You need to grow coffee at altitude, but you also need to be somewhere without any kind of winter and ideally somewhere it rains nine months out of twelve, with a three month dry season you can get in your harvest.
Turmish highlands could be used, I suppose, but since the Neck is noted as freezing over in winter and it is not much further north than Turmish extends, it appears that most of Turmish experiences temperate winters, which would kill any coffee plants.
On the other hand, judging from canonical descriptions of climate around the Inner Sea, I've long thought that the Dragonmere is much colder than the rest of that ocean and that it produces a cooling effect on Cormyr and part of Sembia. Meanwhile, the warm waters of the rest of the sea serve to moderate and warm the climate of other nations. The fact is that most of the Inner Sea lands have climates that are warmer than one would expect from their latitudes, but Cormyr is a notable exception. The winters there can be harsh, in sharp contrast to the subtropical lands of the Vilhon Reach and the fiercely hot lands of Unther, Mulhorand and the Raurin, which appear to have climates suitable for places further south than they actually are.
That is my way to say that the southern part of Turmish might actually be subtropical enough and it certainly has the highlands one would want, around the Orsraun Mountains.
A check reveals that Turmish extends well into Toril's equivalent for the Tropics of Cancer and there is absolutely no reason it couldn't be prime coffee growing land.
The same check, however, reveals that Cormyr's latitude ought to be around 28° N, which is Florida or so. In order for it to have snow in winter and the Neck to freeze over, which we know happens canonically, the Dragonmere pretty much has to have some magical or exotic natural cooling effect.
Edit: Damn it. Depending on whether I count from the equator or the canonical 45°N location of Waterdeep, I get widely diverging latitutdes. Toril is supposed to be larger than Earth, but yet the distance from Waterdeep to the equator appears to be only 2300 miles in the FRIA. I need it to be closer to 3500 miles for things to work out.
Right. Of course someone had already done the corrections for different maps and the fact that they are drawn in 2D. Thanks, Jerry Davis.
Cormyr is at 36°N or so. Turmish lies entirely above 30°N, which means that it is not suitable for growing good coffee, unless some magic is used or what Realmsian people call 'coffee' does not come from a plant that requires the same conditions as the one in our world.
Anything north of the Azulduth is probably not much good for growing coffee.
It could also be Ktzana beans, which is native to Korea and can withstand the harsher climate. it also doesn't taste anything like the coffee most people are used to. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 03 May 2012 : 20:33:11
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Vangerdehast's reaction to being in a magic-dead zone was not unlike withdrawal.
-For a Sorcerer, it would be even more extreme. A Wizard, he/she learns to command magic through reading it and understanding the fundamental powers of the cosmos, and all of that. A Sorcerer, he/she literally has the magic inside of them, a part of them, that just kind of manifests. It would be like a pitcher hurting his shoulder and not being able to throw 90+ MPH anymore and a pitcher having his arm amputated. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 May 2012 : 01:51:01
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
And our award for truly random troll of the day goes to...
Did not even notice the user name or link... Must've been some random person looking for places to spam his coffee link to.
I'll remove the post and block that account in a moment.
And I'll admit, I skimmed over the post, just after I saw the reference to coffee... thinking it was a relevant Realmslore post.
My bad.  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 02 May 2012 : 23:03:29
VERY interesting. 
Vangerdehast's reaction to being in a magic-dead zone was not unlike withdrawal. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 02 May 2012 : 21:17:05
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I suppose magic can be a drug. An addictive one.
-An intriguing notion for a story. A sorcerer who has literally always had magic coursing through his blood suddenly (through the Spellplague, I guess) not having the ability to use magic anymore. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 02 May 2012 : 21:09:13
I suppose magic can be a drug. An addictive one. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 02 May 2012 : 20:22:29
I think poison would do that as per RAW. If you poison a troll for 3-per-round, and he regens at 5, he would only be regenerating at the rate of 2 while the poison was active. Of course, it all depends on the type of poison as well.
Interesting thoughts about coffee, or other substances acting as stimulants/depressants.
Maybe Elminster smokes to counter his ADHD.  |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 02 May 2012 : 20:14:35
Now I wonder if coffee, or other stimulants, chemical or alchemical, could enhance the regenerative abilities of trolls. Or if any substances (other than corrosive and burning agents, of course) can be used to hinder such regeneration ... say, like a "poison" one smears onto a blade or dips an arrowhead into, which will prevent or delay regenerative healing on the wound it causes. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 May 2012 : 18:29:56
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
And our award for truly random troll of the day goes to...
Did not even notice the user name or link... Must've been some random person looking for places to spam his coffee link to.
I'll remove the post and block that account in a moment. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 02 May 2012 : 18:00:18
-At least it was informative and I learned something from it, as opposed to most random trolly ones, which seem to decrease my intelligence... |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 02 May 2012 : 17:51:43
And our award for truly random troll of the day goes to... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 21:58:24
Do you know what happens when halflings drink coffee?
You get KENDER. 
Ayrik's post (after my last) got me thinking - most powerful mages (and wealthy who could afford such services) could create climate-controlled pocket-dimensions for such things. Elminster just steps through the back of his closet and there's freshly-grown pipeweed and coffee, and whatever else (including some of that stuff Filfaeril took to Woodstock with her). 
@Jeremy - I found lots of stuff about insects destroying coffee-crops, but nothing about animals (thus-far).
So does that mean Halflings have to watch out for raiding Thrikreen from The Shaar?
EDIT: Ugh! And now I know TOO MUCH about coffee... thanks guys.  |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 20:29:32
Some grazing animals will eat literally anything, goats are a fine example.
Coffea beans still on the growing plant are actually berries, brightly coloured and somewhat squishy like nuts or cherries. I suppose animals learn which berries are good and which aren't, and simply avoid anything they think tastes awful. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 20:07:56
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I really don't know (and don't want to look up) the habits of camels. I do understand they can be notoriously ill-tempered, stubborn, and very picky about what they eat.
Just in case: apologies if my earlier post came off as me questioning the veracity of the idea of animals eating coffee plants.
I was curious about what kinds of critters will eat crops (like coffee) and if those crops have pronounced effects on monsters beyond what they would on your average human. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 19:40:39
I really don't know (and don't want to look up) the habits of camels. I do understand they can be notoriously ill-tempered, stubborn, and very picky about what they eat. Anauroch Bitter Blend wouldn't be the only example of something animals won't go near but humans readily consume. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 19:14:42
Do animals (or monsters, for that matter) eat coffee beans off the plants or consume whole plants themselves?
Icelander's post about halflings vs. ogres got me to thinking about ogres munching on coffee in fruit form for a nice little caffeine hit. Also, I've read that coffee beans consumed whole have a depressive effect on muscular aches and pains. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 18:53:18
Seasonal conditions aside, a problem permeating the Anauroch region is the phaerimm lifedrain. Whatever coffee plants can grow in this cursed soil must be exceptionally hardy varieties, and probably have very concentrated flavours because of extremely low water content. In fact, the plants must taste quite awful indeed if camels never chew them to suck moisture. Probably cultivated along the fringes of the desert or bordering mountain slopes. I suppose the Bedine probably know of secret passes into secret mountain vales shielded from the harsher weather extremes, where these coffee plants might sometimes grow wild. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 17:35:26
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
If coffee can grow in the (pre-terraformed) Anauroch, the Shining South, Turmish, Zakhara, and once-Halruaa then it'll probably grow pretty much anywhere south of the Sea of Fallen Stars.
Note, there is no reason to expect coffee to grow in Turmish, that was a mistake by some poster. He meant Durpar.
As for Anauroch, well, that's a mystery. On the face of it, impossible. It would require magic or at least a completely different plant than the one used on Earth to make what we call 'coffee'. Anauroch has frost in winters, which is not strange, given where it is located. Frost will play havoc with coffee plants, robust or not.
At the very least, anything they call 'coffee' is probably terrible, except to those accustomed to the taste. Of course, I suppose they could be growing it on some ancient climate-controlled magical sites, employed by the Netherese or even the sarrukh to grow sub-tropical plants that far north.
Without magic, coffee in the Realms should require less on the way of seasons than the Inner Sea has to offer, even on the southern shores. As I said earlier, anywhere north of the tip of the Azulduth is too northerly. It might be warm enough in summer, but it won't have highlands where it remains between ca 60° and 75° F year round, which are perfect conditions.
We're not looking for hot and humid, like the Vilhon Reach. We want a place where the weather rarely changes, but where it rains during 'winter' and is dry during the short, sharp 'summer'. This is subtropical or even tropical at a high enough altitude.
The Shining South fits great, as long as we find plains at high altitude there. Halruua has them and Durpar, Var and Estagund have some around the Curna Mountains.
The Shaar is too low-lying. Even the Eastern Shaar is only 300 feet or so above sea level. That's not high enough for anything except the robust kind, which is more tolerant of heat. And that's bitter-tasting, or so I am told*.
In the real world, the bitterness of the coffee plants that will grow in hot areas without sufficient highlands to maintain the requisite year-round climate control is one of the reasons for cultural traditions of sweetening the coffee. Since in the Realms, Semphari coffee as it is drunk in Duirtanal is noted as being incredibly sweet, this fits well with their lack of perfect growing country for the best brands.
*To me, all coffee tastes bitter unless leavened by malt whisky, cream, cinnamon and chocolate sprinkles. Yes, I only drink Irish coffee.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I expect halflings of the Shaar would cultivate sweet and "chocolaty" varieties, while dwarves might prefer strong and bitter Chultan flavours, elves might find coffee unsettling unless diluted with fey cinnaminty spices, and the Mulhorandi could distill murky caffeine vials for medicinal and ceremonial purposes. No doubt most of the elitist snobs in Cormyr, Sembia, and Waterdeep can generally obtain only spoiled, expired, or second-rate coffee - and they probably (correctly) think that it tastes simply awful - but they'd still pay a hefty premium for the privilege of drinking it to impress their peers.
Note that most of the areas halflings would grow coffee are also areas where they are likely to be threathened by ogres or other big and mean things. Not that they need to grow coffee, since their neighbours do and these neighbours are great traders while Luiren grows a bounty of pretty much every temperate crop.
Mulhorand could cultivate coffee, if they desired, only around Mishtan along the foothills of the Dragonsword Mountains. I don't have a map that tells me how high these are, so I don't know if they are high enough for good coffee. Given the persistent weather-manipulation of Red Wizards and its effects all over the Inner Sea, I think that it falls short of perfection, in that precipation is not clock-work regular there. That being said, with sufficient will, Mulhorand has the irrigation technology and the divine power to provide the perfect conditions, at some cost.
If coffee is popular there, I could see it happening. If it is only a medicinal curiosity, they would no doubt be content to buy beans from Semphar and/or Durpar, depending on the delicacy of their tastes and the depth of purse of the curious party.
Chult might grow coffee, but only if local demand is noted in Realmslore. Otherwise, there would be no point, since foreign trade is not yet significant enough to them to do any large-scale acriculture targeted at it. There's also the problem of Chult being mostly jungle interspersed with occasional stark mountain. It lacks the gentle slopes of highlands around its mountains which is the hallmark of good coffee country.
I'd rather look to Samarach and Thindol. Of course, Faerunian people might still call such brands 'Chultan', not being aware that the peninsula is rather more diverse than that.
If people anywhere buy 'coffee' from Anauroch, they could no doubt be forgiven for thinking that this vile concoction must have been brewed by a particularly fiendish alchemist with a grudge for tastebuds.
It's possible that Thay, using their formidable weather-control magic, is growing a lot of coffee. No doubt their version resembles the Semphari one, but is inferior (but much less expensive).
If Calimshan grows any, it is unlikely to be the highest quality, since what highlands it possesses are a bit far north for comfort. So if Thayan and Calimshan coffee are the standard for most people in areas of focus for novels and supplements, it wouldn't be strange if the fad hasn't caught on yet. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 01:45:44
I suppose we could say that Elminster has allowed Ed Greenwood to proxy all of his Earthly investments. His divinations could be excellent for predicting tomorrow's coffee commodity prices on the stock market. Elminster might even do research at Ed's library to learn where things like oil wells and gold mines and shipwrecks were found, then go back to 1894AD to capitalize on the finds.
Elminster wouldn't need to invest in some slick pencilnecked greedy upstart like Bill Gates - Bill could code in his day, yes, but really in the end he didn't actually invent anything truly new and improved beyond a proprietary software marketing industry. Elminster would've done better by directly financing (and inspiring?) the inventors and patents which founded the Computing-Tabulating-Recording (CTR) Company, the financial and technological powerhouse which evolved a quarter-century later into the core of International Business Machines (IBM) Corporation.
I wouldn't be surprised if our Java beans have been transplanted to Faerūn, just so Elminster can always have a nice cup of coffee whenever he likes. If coffee can grow in the (pre-terraformed) Anauroch, the Shining South, Turmish, Zakhara, and once-Halruaa then it'll probably grow pretty much anywhere south of the Sea of Fallen Stars. I expect halflings of the Shaar would cultivate sweet and "chocolaty" varieties, while dwarves might prefer strong and bitter Chultan flavours, elves might find coffee unsettling unless diluted with fey cinnaminty spices, and the Mulhorandi could distill murky caffeine vials for medicinal and ceremonial purposes. No doubt most of the elitist snobs in Cormyr, Sembia, and Waterdeep can generally obtain only spoiled, expired, or second-rate coffee - and they probably (correctly) think that it tastes simply awful - but they'd still pay a hefty premium for the privilege of drinking it to impress their peers. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 23:02:51
On the way to Earth, Elminster used to grab a few gems and trade them on arrival (see the first Highlander movie - Sean Connery as El). Thirty or more years ago, all he would have to do is go to the diamond-district in NY and get cash for them, no questions asked.
Today, they have to ask. Fortunately, back in 1986, the Old Sage invested some of that cash in Microsoft when it went public - he now has several fat Swiss bank-accounts to draw from.
or so I would assume....
Edit: continuing this thought further, he has probably set-up at least one 'dummy-company', and allows the other Chosen (and a few select individuals) access to 'company funds'. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 21:11:01
-Hmm...We know Khelben has a portal to either the Paraelemental Plane of Ice, or the Plane of Air that he basically used as 'air conditioning' to cool various things in Blackstaff Tower. The Imaskari, we also know, used portals to the elemental planes to do similar things- portals to the Plane of Fire heated buildings, provided fresh water, and so on (Sentinelspire, for example). |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 20:50:41
The Gygax-era expectation seemed to be that other planes were exotic and dangerous places; a PC might make an isolated foray or three to pocket some needed quest stuff or magic components, but organized mining operations were just inviting too much trouble. Planescape just simplified things by making every place in every plane equally dangerous.
I wonder how often Elminster hops a portal to Earth so that he can pick up a canister of Nabob coffee at Safeway? (And how would he pay for it? Always mooch out of Greenwood's pocket? Pawn some silvers for cash? Street-busking cantrips into his pointy hat? Cheat the merchants with invisibility or variations of fool's gold?) |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 19:10:27
-Ah, okay. I know books have mentioned that all kinds of rare minerals and such exist in certain areas of the planes, but I didn't know of any sources that said that groups have/are tried/trying to extract them, and that they've been flummoxed by natives. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 18:43:04
LK - The AD&D (1E) Manual of the Planes detailed such activities (and attendant risks, profits, rules) well enough. It is indeed possible to harvest materials (mostly precious minerals) from the Inner Planes ... and there are very good reasons why large-scale "mining" operations have rarely, if ever, been successful. Yes, predatory and territorial natives of these planes are foremost among these reasons. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 17:52:30
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-On a related issue, no lore about the Plane of Earth says anything about extraplanar mineral extracting/farming, does it?
I remeber something from one of the EARLY books (1e?) that discussed this - if someone started 'mining' an elemental plane on a regular basis, it would attract some very bad attention (not only are there creatures that jealousy guard their plane's 'treasures', but there are also creatures looking for a way out, or even just looking for food... which the PCs become). |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 16:45:07
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Maztica canonically is a source of coffee beans, but I'm not sure about Turmish.
-Was thinking of Durpar, not Turmish, never mind. One of the back-up characters was a coffee merchant from Turmish.
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
You need to grow coffee at altitude, but you also need to be somewhere without any kind of winter and ideally somewhere it rains nine months out of twelve, with a three month dry season you can get in your harvest.
Turmish highlands could be used, I suppose, but since the Neck is noted as freezing over in winter and it is not much further north than Turmish extends, it appears that most of Turmish experiences temperate winters, which would kill any coffee plants.
On the other hand, judging from canonical descriptions of climate around the Inner Sea, I've long thought that the Dragonmere is much colder than the rest of that ocean and that it produces a cooling effect on Cormyr and part of Sembia. Meanwhile, the warm waters of the rest of the sea serve to moderate and warm the climate of other nations. The fact is that most of the Inner Sea lands have climates that are warmer than one would expect from their latitudes, but Cormyr is a notable exception. The winters there can be harsh, in sharp contrast to the subtropical lands of the Vilhon Reach and the fiercely hot lands of Unther, Mulhorand and the Raurin, which appear to have climates suitable for places further south than they actually are.
That is my way to say that the southern part of Turmish might actually be subtropical enough and it certainly has the highlands one would want, around the Orsraun Mountains.
A check reveals that Turmish extends well into Toril's equivalent for the Tropics of Cancer and there is absolutely no reason it couldn't be prime coffee growing land.
The same check, however, reveals that Cormyr's latitude ought to be around 28° N, which is Florida or so. In order for it to have snow in winter and the Neck to freeze over, which we know happens canonically, the Dragonmere pretty much has to have some magical or exotic natural cooling effect.
Edit: Damn it. Depending on whether I count from the equator or the canonical 45°N location of Waterdeep, I get widely diverging latitutdes. Toril is supposed to be larger than Earth, but yet the distance from Waterdeep to the equator appears to be only 2300 miles in the FRIA. I need it to be closer to 3500 miles for things to work out.
Right. Of course someone had already done the corrections for different maps and the fact that they are drawn in 2D. Thanks, Jerry Davis.
Cormyr is at 36°N or so. Turmish lies entirely above 30°N, which means that it is not suitable for growing good coffee, unless some magic is used or what Realmsian people call 'coffee' does not come from a plant that requires the same conditions as the one in our world.
Anything north of the Azulduth is probably not much good for growing coffee.
<-Insert griping about Icelander trying to take the fantasy out of a fantasy world.>
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I also know their are several 'hearty' varieties of plants bred specifically for Long Island (we've only developed a wine industry in the past 30 years), and although I haven't heard of a hearty coffee variety, I have heard of (and own) several hearty varieties of tropical plants which can tolerate our (sometimes brutal) winters. In others words - i am sure coffee would be possible, if someone thought there would be a benefit to growing it here (and magic tends to be even better at that kind of stuff then science, and who knows what sorts of weird varieties of flora grow on Toril).
-This gives me the idea of a demiplane dedicated specifically to farming.
-On a related issue, no lore about the Plane of Earth says anything about extraplanar mineral extracting/farming, does it? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 15:02:01
Wow - I was writing a story (or attempting to, set in my own world), and I was just trying to come up with names for a coffee-like equivalent, and then this thread pops-up... weird.
@Icelander - This Map is canon (taken from the FRIA)*, and shows the true positions of the poles - the north and south edge of the map (which is obviously disproportionate, as any flat map would be). You'll note most of Faerun is in a region that would be considered fairly warm.
The Great Glacier has a VERY large cooling-influence on the North (I assume the Moonsea is kept rather chilly with glacial run-off), and Anauroch is NOT a 'hot' desert (although the southern portions do get rather hot in the summer months). The Dragonsea is most-likely fed by underground sources, from large cavern-lakes that are extremely frigid. Note that not only is a lot of Toril's weather affected by artificial (magical) conditions, but we have no idea where the major natural ocean and air-currents lie, and what their effects are.
The only two I am sure of is that there is a southern wind blowing most of the year from the Southern hemisphere into Faerun and rides up along the Swordcoast (in direct opposition to the clockwise-turning current of the shining sea, with Evermeet at its center).
Someday I will do an ocean and air current map (which will be based primarily on conjecture and RW weather patterns), and hopefully I can get Ed to 'sign off' on it (give it his nod of approval). The Moonsea north down to Cormyr/Sembia (the Eastern heartlands) seems to be very similar to the American NE in weather. Last night parts of NY got 10" of snow, and two days before it hit 90° in Central Park (and I've seen it go from above 80° to below freezing in just 12 hours where I live).
I also know their are several 'hearty' varieties of plants bred specifically for Long Island (we've only developed a wine industry in the past 30 years), and although I haven't heard of a hearty coffee variety, I have heard of (and own) several hearty varieties of tropical plants which can tolerate our (sometimes brutal) winters. In others words - I am sure coffee would be possible, if someone thought there would be a benefit to growing it here (and magic tends to be even better at that kind of stuff then science, and who knows what sorts of weird varieties of flora grow on Toril).
EDIT: This map is non-canon (and ignore Xendrik and Oerik - I was playing around, and I no longer have the uncorrupted version), but I extrapolated outward using the (given) canon size of Toril, and using the scale of the 3e Faerun maps. As you can see, that pushes the poles even further away, and leaves room for several more continents that would be 'off the map' given in the 3e FRCS. My assumption is that the unnatural coldness in the Moonsea North is due to the presence of the magically-generated glacier.
However, Ed probably based his own figures (for how much larger Toril was the Earth) on the original 1e/2e maps, before they got 'shrinkafied' in 3e, so perhaps the 3e maps reflect a smaller (Earth-sized) Toril. There should also be less axial tilt from what I figure, but there are so many factors I couldn't possibly be sure. We could also theorize that that Ed was talking about Abeir-Toril - the original planet - and that 'just Toril' is Earth-sized or even slightly smaller, making the 'leftovers' that form Abeir quite tiny (Abeir might only be the size of Pluto... but we have no clue, AFAIK). |
| EltonJ |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 14:26:59
Thank you, everyone! :)
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| George Krashos |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 05:12:41
You should be drinking thrusk - see "Hand of Fire".
-- George Krashos
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