| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Arzakon |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 14:52:55
Hi. I know that Ioulaum has been discussed for long in this forum, and I've learned a lot about Netheril and this character just reading your replies and recommendations.
Anyway, this question is about rules regarding Ioulaum. Even if such a powerful mage is not supposed to be fought by any PC, I'm always looking to have each charactersheet with every minor detail. The problem with Ioulaum is that there are a lot of mixed rules to apply and I just don't know how to do it.
He's supposed to be a leve 41 mage (31 wizard, 5 netherese arcanist, 5 archmage). That's a lot, but it's somewhat easy to make. Then, there's the "undead elder brain" thing. He has fused with a "lich" elder brain, and I just do not know how to use any template to the base character. Lichdom is a rather easy template to apply, but the elder brain is messing up with it. I'm thinking about making "elder brain" as a 25 HD aberration with its abilites and then begin applying lichdom and character's level, but I'm not sure if that's good. |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Eli the Tanner |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 06:36:40
I'd suggest using the Alhoon (Illithilich) template from Monsters of Faerun on top of the standard Elder Brain from Underdark. Then it is just a question of adding those many, many levels to the base creature.
Also, a few unique epic spells and powers would certainly be a good idea as well. Ioulaum is quite a mammoth being to stat up, I for one would be very interested in seeing your results if you finish. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 06:49:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Strangely enough, looking at the list of official Templates, there isn't one to simply make something 'undead'. There are 'Zombie' templates, and 'Skeleton' templates, and 'Vampire' templates, but nothing to just make a living version of a creature stereotypically 'undead'. I mean, attaching the 'Zombie', or 'Lich' template to an Elder Brain might work in making it an undead creature, but it also then makes it a zombie, or a lich- and an Undead Elder Brain isn't necessarily a zombie, or a lich.
I think that's prolly because D&D has so dang many flavors of undead... It's something I've thought was ridiculous since long before we even had the Complete Handbooks in 2E.
I like the tendency toward many varieties of undead, as it reflects the many different instances whereupon the state of undeath can be granted/thrust upon an individual character or creature.
I do agree, however, that they need to be somewhat more appropriately categorised.
A lot of your "basic" undead, like liches, zombies, ghouls, ghosts, specters, vampires, mummies, etc, do make sense. But as I've pointed out before, in D&D, the two most common types of critters presented in monster entries (whether in a monster book, a supplement, or a Dragon article) are dragons and undead. And in my opinion, many were created just to have more undead.
I don't like unexplained undead types, I'll admit. Undead just for the sake of the "Oh, that's so cool." factor isn't something I like seeing in my RPG books.
One day, probably when I've nothing left to add to my "To-Do" lists... I'll attempt to provide some Realmslore-origins for those undead creature types that have little true investment in the lore. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 06:19:55
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think that's prolly because D&D has so dang many flavors of undead... It's something I've thought was ridiculous since long before we even had the Complete Handbooks in 2E.
-That's true. That'd make a blanket, generic, vanilla 'Undead' template all the more useful, then! If I want my creature to be Undead but not be dumb like a zombie, skeletal like a skeleton, sucky like a vampire, magical like a lich, and so on, I'm kind of screwed.
-The Libris Mortis book in 3e had the 'Deathless' template, which was, if I am remembering correctly, sort of like just generically Undead without the 'stigmas' of those other things attached, but it was also kind of different from being regular Undead in some way. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 06:08:08
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Strangely enough, looking at the list of official Templates, there isn't one to simply make something 'undead'. There are 'Zombie' templates, and 'Skeleton' templates, and 'Vampire' templates, but nothing to just make a living version of a creature stereotypically 'undead'. I mean, attaching the 'Zombie', or 'Lich' template to an Elder Brain might work in making it an undead creature, but it also then makes it a zombie, or a lich- and an Undead Elder Brain isn't necessarily a zombie, or a lich.
I think that's prolly because D&D has so dang many flavors of undead... It's something I've thought was ridiculous since long before we even had the Complete Handbooks in 2E.
I like the tendency toward many varieties of undead, as it reflects the many different instances whereupon the state of undeath can be granted/thrust upon an individual character or creature.
I do agree, however, that they need to be somewhat more appropriately categorised.
A lot of your "basic" undead, like liches, zombies, ghouls, ghosts, specters, vampires, mummies, etc, do make sense. But as I've pointed out before, in D&D, the two most common types of critters presented in monster entries (whether in a monster book, a supplement, or a Dragon article) are dragons and undead. And in my opinion, many were created just to have more undead.
I once joked about the green howling yodeler, which is "created when a heartbroken half-elven male name Frehd falls off a mountain while yodeling, lands in a pool of green Jell-O, and then freezes to death while a trio of dire penguins laugh at his struggles to get out". This is one I made up, but some of the undead types that have been written up have had origins that were nearly that ridiculous, being created thru some incredibly unlikely string of events happening simultaneously. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 03:26:26
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Strangely enough, looking at the list of official Templates, there isn't one to simply make something 'undead'. There are 'Zombie' templates, and 'Skeleton' templates, and 'Vampire' templates, but nothing to just make a living version of a creature stereotypically 'undead'. I mean, attaching the 'Zombie', or 'Lich' template to an Elder Brain might work in making it an undead creature, but it also then makes it a zombie, or a lich- and an Undead Elder Brain isn't necessarily a zombie, or a lich.
I think that's prolly because D&D has so dang many flavors of undead... It's something I've thought was ridiculous since long before we even had the Complete Handbooks in 2E.
I like the tendency toward many varieties of undead, as it reflects the many different instances whereupon the state of undeath can be granted/thrust upon an individual character or creature.
I do agree, however, that they need to be somewhat more appropriately categorised. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 02:38:24
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Strangely enough, looking at the list of official Templates, there isn't one to simply make something 'undead'. There are 'Zombie' templates, and 'Skeleton' templates, and 'Vampire' templates, but nothing to just make a living version of a creature stereotypically 'undead'. I mean, attaching the 'Zombie', or 'Lich' template to an Elder Brain might work in making it an undead creature, but it also then makes it a zombie, or a lich- and an Undead Elder Brain isn't necessarily a zombie, or a lich.
I think that's prolly because D&D has so dang many flavors of undead... It's something I've thought was ridiculous since long before we even had the Complete Handbooks in 2E. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 25 Feb 2012 : 21:27:42
-Strangely enough, looking at the list of official Templates, there isn't one to simply make something 'undead'. There are 'Zombie' templates, and 'Skeleton' templates, and 'Vampire' templates, but nothing to just make a living version of a creature stereotypically 'undead'. I mean, attaching the 'Zombie', or 'Lich' template to an Elder Brain might work in making it an undead creature, but it also then makes it a zombie, or a lich- and an Undead Elder Brain isn't necessarily a zombie, or a lich. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 08:46:35
that is some... fecal matter! |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 23 Feb 2012 : 00:50:16
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I just reread this thread today. Can anyone tell me where I could have read the writeup of an UNDEAD elder brain!
Thanks
-The 3e Monster Index that WotC compiled (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters) doesn't have Undead Elder Brains as their own distinct monster. Non-undead ones, yes; undead ones, no. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 21:55:02
I just reread this thread today. Can anyone tell me where I could have read the writeup of an UNDEAD elder brain!
Thanks |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 23:01:29
Well... since im unable to locate this undead vesion of the Elder Brain, which im sertain I have seen somewhere, im goint to say this. At the fall of Netheril Ioulaum saw that for all his power, he was stil at the mercy of the weave, or Mystryl. Somehow he kind of knew about The Weave 1.0, and realized that it could not be counted on. Therefor he set out to gain this power for himself. He ended up, with not only, still having most of his arcane powers, but got the psionics he wanted, since he flt that this was a form of power that would not be in the hands of somone or something else.
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| Quale |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 21:31:41
first you got to pick whether it's an arcane or psionic elder brain, makes a lot of difference in epic spellcasting
then decide if you want the best possible or more realistic character
there's no elder brain templates, you have a lot of freedom with the ability bonuses
don't forget the Nether Scrolls bonuses too |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 21:07:11
Dont remember where ive read it, but the monster type, Undead Elder Brain have been written up. It is a CR 28 monster. You take this as a base creature race, give it the lich template, and then ad all his spellcasting abilities. The would give you a final cr of Ioulaum 71 28 for race + 2 for lich + 41 for spellcasting lvls.
So all in all one bad mother"#¤%&/.... hope it helps! |
| Jorin Embersmith |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 19:31:21
Stats for the Elder Brain can be (I think) found in Underdark. Except that it's the Illithid Elder Brain, which I'm not sure is the same thing. Anyhoo, take a peek. |
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