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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Azuth Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 04:50:06

My dislike of 4E is known even to the undead blasted to dust. The changes to the Faerūnian Pantheon bother me more than most of the other changes to the Realms in the 4th Edition. I have put down the gods I miss most from the first-to-third edition. Please let us know whom you miss the most. (Note: the poll has been edited after the publication of The Herald as many gods are no longer dead. Either way, since people are still posting on here, I have reset the poll data. ~Azuth 06.30.2014)

Neither gone, nor forgotten:
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Drustan Dwnhaedan Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 09:36:44
Just noticed that Azuth edited the poll. And the deity I miss the most is still Eilistraee.
The Masked Mage Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 06:40:31
All of them!
Irennan Posted - 30 Jun 2014 : 22:07:26
FR wiki lists Mielikki as alive and intermediate power (just go to her page)

Bhaal has come back with the ''Murder in Baldur's Gate'' Sundering adventure.
Azuth Posted - 30 Jun 2014 : 22:02:01
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

Mielikki and Bhaal are officially back (Mielikki has never left AFAIK), but they are still in the poll [?!:



I can find no sources that state either are "alive" again. Bhaal lives through "Bhallspawn," but I don't see a novel or source that lists him as returned to divinity. I was actually going to post about Mielikki, because she's listed as "dead" on the Forgotten Realms Wiki (used in the past tense) but seems very active in Bob Salvatore's books. If someone has something that points to either deities (or any others) being alive in canon, I'll update the poll accordingly.

Cheers.
Irennan Posted - 30 Jun 2014 : 16:29:24
Mielikki and Bhaal are officially back (Mielikki has never left AFAIK), but they are still in the poll


quote:
Originally posted by Veritas

Although it wouldn't happen, I'd be interested in seeing a combined Eilistraee Vhaeurun. It creates a single drow deity potentially powerful enough to give some opposition to Lolth, and can make for many interesting stories as a deity somewhat opposed to itself. The Vhaerunites and Eilistraeans can compete to see their favored aspects of their deity gain ascendancy over the other half. To some degree, they're in it together (same deity) but jockeying for dominance.



Eilistraee and Vhaeraun could team up and be strong enough to at least give Lolth some opposition. Their different approaches don't justify them being enemies, considering that the part of their goal about creating a place in the world for the drow, wanting them to be free to choose their life and stop killing each other, is something that both siblings share. Sure there would be contrasts among their followers about how to handle some situations, but such things happen even among followers of the same deity (and would be interesting to see).

Losing both their unique characters for what basically is a new one with split personality isn't a fair exchange IMO, but having it exist on its own after the two of them merged could be a thing. Maybe an heresy gave birth to an actual Masked Lady (or -as other scribes proposed- another deity took the alias), unknowingly to both Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, and now they have to deal with her, decide whether she is an ally or enemy, try to gain influence over her (by letting one of her aspects to take over, like you proposed. And this would translate in followers of E/V trying to influence the followers of the third deity) and so on...
Veritas Posted - 30 Jun 2014 : 16:15:18
I suppose a six month thread necromancy isn't that bad.

Lets get Ibrandul back, baby! Its his time, considering Lathander's return, and Lolth and Shar's activity.

Although it wouldn't happen, I'd be interested in seeing a combined Eilistraee Vhaeurun. It creates a single drow deity potentially powerful enough to give some opposition to Lolth, and can make for many interesting stories as a deity somewhat opposed to itself. The Vhaerunites and Eilistraeans can compete to see their favored aspects of their deity gain ascendancy over the other half. To some degree, they're in it together (same deity) but jockeying for dominance.
BARDOBARBAROS Posted - 29 Jun 2014 : 13:34:48
Myrkul
The Arcanamach Posted - 17 Dec 2013 : 15:55:13
The High One, Azuth the Lord of Spells. Despite knowing so little of his story...I'm willing to bet a cheeseburger and some toe-nail clippings that he achieved godhood on pure merit.
Alruane Posted - 17 Nov 2013 : 20:32:12
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

quote:
Originally posted by Alruane

I must say, I do miss Bhaal the lord of Murder.


Well its look like he will be back soon enough so rejoice.



Oh really? Then I shall definitely rejoice!! HAHA
Thauranil Posted - 17 Nov 2013 : 11:14:29
quote:
Originally posted by Alruane

I must say, I do miss Bhaal the lord of Murder.


Well its look like he will be back soon enough so rejoice.
Alruane Posted - 17 Nov 2013 : 09:04:11
I must say, I do miss Bhaal the lord of Murder.
Firestorm Posted - 09 Sep 2013 : 01:27:55
quote:
Originally posted by Plaguescarred

When i voted i was rather surprised to see Mask was ahead. I would have thought Lathander or Helm would have had the pole.


Lathander is already back. He never really left. he just changed back to his original form.

But Mask always has been one of the most popular gods.
Plaguescarred Posted - 05 Sep 2013 : 18:24:50
When i voted i was rather surprised to see Mask was ahead. I would have thought Lathander or Helm would have had the pole.
Drustan Dwnhaedan Posted - 05 Sep 2013 : 18:07:06
quote:
Originally posted by jornan

I honestly like the idea that Gods can be killed and that portfolios change hands in the Realms.

I enjoy the celestial power struggles and machinations. I do think however that the wholesale slaughter and disruption of the pantheon for 4e was a bit much. I would enjoy seeing a return of E or V or a combination deity for sure.

I just hope the "new" realms still maintains some element of the Pantheons battles and scheming and the possibility that one God could be killed or a mortal could ascend to Godhood (ala Cyric, I just hope that they are stories that are told and serve a purpose for advancing a particular story arc rather than just a mass sweeping change for changes sake.


How about a mortal ascending to Godhood by killing Cyric? Gods know he's got it coming to him. (This might be a little obvious but I'm not a big fan of Cyric.)
jornan Posted - 05 Sep 2013 : 04:57:32
I honestly like the idea that Gods can be killed and that portfolios change hands in the Realms.

I enjoy the celestial power struggles and machinations. I do think however that the wholesale slaughter and disruption of the pantheon for 4e was a bit much. I would enjoy seeing a return of E or V or a combination deity for sure.

I just hope the "new" realms still maintains some element of the Pantheons battles and scheming and the possibility that one God could be killed or a mortal could ascend to Godhood (ala Cyric, I just hope that they are stories that are told and serve a purpose for advancing a particular story arc rather than just a mass sweeping change for changes sake.
Irennan Posted - 05 Sep 2013 : 02:01:24
Well, the point was that she is dead to WotC, but probably not if we look at the various loopholes left in the plot.
CorellonsDevout Posted - 05 Sep 2013 : 00:27:46
Hey, if she isn't dead, that's great, I just got the impression she was.
Irennan Posted - 04 Sep 2013 : 11:28:14
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

@Lillianviaten: I remember that scene in LP, and I got the impression she was dead. The servitor--forgetting his name--practically said as much. Her realm didn't disappear because Corellon stepped in. However, I could very well be wrong and misunderstood those last scenes, in which case, I'll amend my earlier wishes from "back to life", to "come back into the scene". I hope you're right in that she is alive. I'd prefer Vhaeraun be himself again instead of being merged with his sister, but I'll take the Masked Lady over not having them at all.



The servitor is clueless. He even says something like ''Eilistraee isn't needed, because the ''willing'' drow were freed, while the other ones were unwilling and cast down'', which is complete BS (I mean, seriously, the unwilling were cast down? This is wrong in so many ways that it's not even funny, and completely against what Eilistraee stands for). Eilistraee didn't get an explicit death scene, her avatar was destroyed, but she simply disappeared. It isn't wise to trust mortal's or even random celestial's view on a god's plan.

As for Corellon, he accepted to protect the brown elves, preventing Lolth from taking them. AFAIK, he isn't the one keeping Eilistraee's Realm. Also his reaction to the whole matter is strangely calm (and it's not because he wanted to hide his feelings, Lolth is obviously aware of them...).

Anyway the situation is so muddy that we can't say E or V are dead, and this is the effect the author intended to achieve (according to what she said).
Drustan Dwnhaedan Posted - 04 Sep 2013 : 07:47:27
I agree with CorellonsDevout wholeheartedly, having Eilistraee return in some form is better than her not returning at all. Although it seems like she might still be alive after all? Oh, and I'd also like to apologize for the rant-ish nature of my earlier post (still felt good to get it off my chest).
CorellonsDevout Posted - 04 Sep 2013 : 04:14:50
@Lillianviaten: I remember that scene in LP, and I got the impression she was dead. The servitor--forgetting his name--practically said as much. Her realm didn't disappear because Corellon stepped in. However, I could very well be wrong and misunderstood those last scenes, in which case, I'll amend my earlier wishes from "back to life", to "come back into the scene". I hope you're right in that she is alive. I'd prefer Vhaeraun be himself again instead of being merged with his sister, but I'll take the Masked Lady over not having them at all.
Irennan Posted - 03 Sep 2013 : 10:05:10
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten

I thought that Ascendancy of the Last (the 3rd novel in the Lady Penitent trilogy) made it clear that Eilistraee isn't dead. Lolth made some remark like "Your brother taught you much about sleight of hand", after Eilistraee and Vhaeraun merged into the "Masked Lady". That was one hint. Then when Eilistraee was "killed", it was noted that her realm didn't disappear, as Lolth expected.
She's not dead, and I don't believe the author intended her to be. The novel says that Halisstra was tricked into beheading Eilistraee when she manifested fully on the surface. Well, gods can't manifest themselves entirely on Faerun. They can only manifest avatars, and killing the avatar doesn't destroy the god.

IMO, Lolth's 2 troublesome children realized that they could never best her individually. She had just become a Greater God after the WOTSQ novels, and they knew they were doomed. So they teamed up to outmaneuver. She thinks they are dead, but come 5e, they will be back to see their plan through.


Agree with the first part. The author herself said that she purposely made it so that the two deities could easily be back in action. I hope you are right about the second one.
Lilianviaten Posted - 03 Sep 2013 : 06:26:16
I thought that Ascendancy of the Last (the 3rd novel in the Lady Penitent trilogy) made it clear that Eilistraee isn't dead. Lolth made some remark like "Your brother taught you much about sleight of hand", after Eilistraee and Vhaeraun merged into the "Masked Lady". That was one hint. Then when Eilistraee was "killed", it was noted that her realm didn't disappear, as Lolth expected.

She's not dead, and I don't believe the author intended her to be. The novel says that Halisstra was tricked into beheading Eilistraee when she manifested fully on the surface. Well, gods can't manifest themselves entirely on Faerun. They can only manifest avatars, and killing the avatar doesn't destroy the god.

IMO, Lolth's 2 troublesome children realized that they could never best her individually. She had just become a Greater God after the WOTSQ novels, and they knew they were doomed. So they teamed up to outmaneuver. She thinks they are dead, but come 5e, they will be back to see their plan through. Lolth already overreached in trying to take over the Weave, thus making an enemy of Mystra. Much like Shar, the stars are aligned against Lolth in 5e.
CorellonsDevout Posted - 03 Sep 2013 : 04:16:14
I would love to see Eilistraee and Vhaeraun return as well, but WotC expressed earlier this year, at least to my understanding (and correct me if I am wrong), that they had no real interest in doing anything with the drow that wasn't tied to Lolth, which means no V or E--however I would argue that those two are tied to Lolth.

But hopefully Ed has something to say about it :)
Azuth Posted - 03 Sep 2013 : 03:18:15
quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan

While I definitely think most of the gods' deaths were idiotic (Azuth, Helm, Mystra, Tyr, etc.), the one death that affected me the most was Eilistraee's. Considering the fact that her death (along with those of Kiaransalee, Selvetarm, and Vhaeraun) removed any choice of what deity the drow can worship 'canonically' (which also made no sense to me, when they made drow a standard PC race in 4e) it also angered me personally because every single character I have ever played has been a Eilistraeen or worked closely with the Temple of Eilistraee. Hell, at the end of my last campaign, the rest of my adventuring party were guests of honor at my cleric/ranger's marriage to an Eilistraeen priestess, which is probably the single 'happy ending' any of my character's has ever had! (Yes, I know I'm ranting, but I really needed to get this emotional baggage out in the open so I could stop thinking about it.)

*after taking a few moments to regain sanity* So, I voted for Eilistraee. It's unlikely I'll ever get over what happened to her, but as demonstrated with Mystra, deities can return from the dead, and there's always the chance the Dark Maiden may yet return (and if a certain half-dragon cleric/ranger has anything to say about it, she will).



I suspect that Ed will bring her back - she's pretty pivotal to some of his characters. I'm not promising on his behalf, of course, but that's why they made the great plot hole/device that is Ao. :)
~Az
Gyor Posted - 03 Sep 2013 : 02:18:42
They're all coming back in one form or another.
Drustan Dwnhaedan Posted - 02 Sep 2013 : 22:40:27
While I definitely think most of the gods' deaths were idiotic (Azuth, Helm, Mystra, Tyr, etc.), the one death that affected me the most was Eilistraee's. Considering the fact that her death (along with those of Kiaransalee, Selvetarm, and Vhaeraun) removed any choice of what deity the drow can worship 'canonically' (which also made no sense to me, when they made drow a standard PC race in 4e) it also angered me personally because every single character I have ever played has been a Eilistraeen or worked closely with the Temple of Eilistraee. Hell, at the end of my last campaign, the rest of my adventuring party were guests of honor at my cleric/ranger's marriage to an Eilistraeen priestess, which is probably the single 'happy ending' any of my character's has ever had! (Yes, I know I'm ranting, but I really needed to get this emotional baggage out in the open so I could stop thinking about it.)

*after taking a few moments to regain sanity* So, I voted for Eilistraee. It's unlikely I'll ever get over what happened to her, but as demonstrated with Mystra, deities can return from the dead, and there's always the chance the Dark Maiden may yet return (and if a certain half-dragon cleric/ranger has anything to say about it, she will).
diogrigor Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 23:05:42
I voted "Other" for Moander.

I think the presence of such a monolithic - destructive force in the Realms would add to its flavor.

My second choice would of course be Bhaal. It's so fun to have a fanatic lot of assassins who actually draw power from their killing.

After all, what would the need for the equivalent good gods be?

P.S. My dislike for yu-gi-oUCH - 4E is known even to Obox-ob. I think it is what makes him hesitate to reclaim Abyss
Xar Zarath Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 07:23:49
I like Myrkul. He was a good fellow, like necromancy and scaring people about death. Hope he comes back.
CorellonsDevout Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 07:04:30
Oh yes, totally Vhaeraun. Him, Eilistraee, and Mask are the ones I was most depressed about. I kind of miss Tyr too, but not as badly. I'd say Deneir too.
Drakul Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 07:01:40
Vhaeraun gets my vote.

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