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Azuth Posted - 31 May 2011 : 02:04:41

Wishing there was a ranking system, but sad there isn't, if you have read all of the Ed Greenwood Presents: Waterdeep series, I'm interested in which book people like best and why. Please refrain from criticism of any authors or books: I'm curious why people like a certain book in the series, not why they dislike others. As a whole, if you haven't read them, I highly recommend doing so. While I'm not a fan of the 4E game itself, these novels are well written and do not agonize over the 4E changes.

May all your spells manifest as intended.
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
The Arcanamach Posted - 17 Dec 2013 : 15:52:14
All of them.
Tanthalas Posted - 26 Nov 2013 : 01:20:30
I'd say even the very first Forgotten Realms trilogy had a dark side to it.

Though I'd have to disagree that all 4E books were "dark". City of the Dead (a fantastic book by the way) was pretty light-hearted and upbeat. It certainly didn't portray Waterdeep as a dark city even though the plot revolved around the cemetery of Waterdeep.
Erik Scott de Bie Posted - 22 Nov 2013 : 16:07:24
Fair enough, Wooly. It is reasonable, indeed.

I wonder how much of that is the Realms, how much of that is the authors, and how much of that is the trend in fantasy fiction over the last few years.

The Realms was dark in 3e (Sembia, War of the Spider Queen, etc), and WotC really emphasized the dark transition of the Realms into a new, less stable place in 4e. The Transitions series was mandated to be dark, pretty much, because Bob had the choice either to kill off many of his beloved characters or let them die in the time-jump, and he chose to kill them. Not an easy thing, and and with such build up and emotional investment in his heroes, it's going to be pretty damn dark to see them die. His book in the Sundering is a movement against that, back to a place of magic that the Realms had before the jump, and to hear him talk about it, that's very purposeful.

Don't forget that we're looking at a few dark fantasy writers, too. For instance, Paul Kemp, Jaleigh Johnson, and I tend to write dark sorts of stories. Part of that is just the fantasy we like to write--dealing with deep, powerful, dramatic issues and shades-of-gray characters and plots. James Davis cut his teeth writing horror, and it's no surprise his stuff is pretty dark. I don't want to pigeonhole any of us--obviously, all of us can write non-dark stuff as well--it's just that our styles often tend toward a darker setting.

And it's undeniable that dark fantasy has been on the rise for over a decade now. Gray characters, dark plots, a little touch of horror, settings that are a bit tarnished--that's all what's going on in the fantasy genre these days. Personally, I think it was always there in the Realms--Azure Bonds and its heroine with her dark past, the Pools series with its underlying dark plots and heroic sacrifice, a lot of Sembia, the entire War of the Spider Queen--and my work is meant to honor that aspect.

Cheers
Wooly Rupert Posted - 21 Nov 2013 : 17:08:05
quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn

We have all been dealing with it for four years though, it shouldn't really come as a shock at this point. It has become the norm for a modern FR novel. Even the new Elminster series was pretty dark and gloomy. A piece like say the Companions stands out because it has an much more upbeat tone.




I'm not saying it was a shock. Both the novels I read, I read right when they came out. And the feel was different enough to impact my enjoyment of the stories.

When you've enjoyed a setting having a particular feel for 20 years, even if you know it's going to be different, that doesn't mean you're automatically going to enjoy (or dislike) an alternate feel for the same setting. It is, though, quite reasonable to object to it being quite different.
Tarlyn Posted - 21 Nov 2013 : 15:57:18
We have all been dealing with it for four years though, it shouldn't really come as a shock at this point. It has become the norm for a modern FR novel. Even the new Elminster series was pretty dark and gloomy. A piece like say the Companions stands out because it has a much more upbeat tone.

Also, Brimstone angels is a fantastic piece in case anyone got the impression from my previous post that I didn't like it. The realms is different in it, but I did really enjoy the cast of characters. Also, if you are a big fan of the various secret societies in FR both Brimstone angels and Lesser evils feature a lot of new ones and old favorites(Although the old ones are considerably less influential and power than they were in the past).
Wooly Rupert Posted - 21 Nov 2013 : 11:00:54
quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn

Complaining about them being dark is like complaining that a slasher movie has a lot of murder in it. The new realms has a darker tone end of story. It isn't necessarily bad(although I personally don't care for it) it just is the tone of the setting.



I disagree with that analogy. One walks into a slasher flick expecting a lot of murder. One does not, on the other hand, expect an animated Disney movie to suddenly become a slasher flick three-quarters of the way thru the movie.

The tone of the setting changed. For 20 years it was not dark and grim -- so complaining when it suddenly acquires that feel is quite valid.
Tarlyn Posted - 21 Nov 2013 : 05:54:51
quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
I agree with Erik's take on this, too. I struggle for the right adjective, but Erik writes differently than does Ed, which is to be expected. Ed describes the seedier parts of the Realms in a different way, but they're still there. Certain authors past in both the 2E/3E worlds (whom I shall not name) I felt wrote terribly of the Realms. But there are many great authors out there to keep up the torch of Faerūn, and I count Erik amongst them.



Everywhere is grimmer, seedier, darker than it was. There were dark place in 2ed/3ed for sure, but that didn't describe virtually every location you visited in those editions. I just finished Brimstone angels and Neverwinter is definitively darker than before. It isn't bad, but that is the way the new realms are. Complaining about them being dark is like complaining that a slasher movie has a lot of murder in it. The new realms has a darker tone end of story. It isn't necessarily bad(although I personally don't care for it) it just is the tone of the setting.
Azuth Posted - 21 Nov 2013 : 05:16:27
I agree with Erik's take on this, too. I struggle for the right adjective, but Erik writes differently than does Ed, which is to be expected. Ed describes the seedier parts of the Realms in a different way, but they're still there. Certain authors past in both the 2E/3E worlds (whom I shall not name) I felt wrote terribly of the Realms. But there are many great authors out there to keep up the torch of Faerūn, and I count Erik amongst them.


quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn


To be fair, Waterdeep could be replaced with any location in FR for 4e and the statement would be true. It is just the tone of the 1400s in general.

Tarlyn Posted - 20 Nov 2013 : 04:59:38
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I felt Waterdeep was darker and grimmer -- tarnished and lacking the luster that made it shine in the past. It simply didn't have the vibrant feel of past eras.


To be fair, Waterdeep could be replaced with any location in FR for 4e and the statement would be true. It is just the tone of the 1400s in general.
Erik Scott de Bie Posted - 20 Nov 2013 : 04:23:03
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I felt Waterdeep was darker and grimmer -- tarnished and lacking the luster that made it shine in the past. It simply didn't have the vibrant feel of past eras.
And far be it for me to contradict your opinion. My point is simply that it really depends how you look at it. Someone else reading these books might not feel that way at all.

I'll freely admit that a lot of DOWNSHADOW is pretty dark, but a lot is very celebratory and glitzy as well.

Cheers
Wooly Rupert Posted - 19 Nov 2013 : 19:14:40
I felt Waterdeep was darker and grimmer -- tarnished and lacking the luster that made it shine in the past. It simply didn't have the vibrant feel of past eras.
Erik Scott de Bie Posted - 19 Nov 2013 : 17:21:48
quote:
Originally posted by Alruane

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I've read two of the books, and while I did enjoy the stories, seeing that my favorite place in the Realms was no longer all that splendid really impacted my enjoyment of the books. It's why I've not read any other 4E novels.
What did they do to Waterdeep? I was looking forward to reading these, but if they took the luster out...it just seems less interesting. Sadly.

I guess it depends how you look at it, and where you look.

The Waterdeep of my novel DOWNSHADOW is still fabulous, sparkling, and splendid--at least above ground. The dark and grimy bits are where they always have been: Undermountain (where about a third of the book takes place), dark and shadowy alleys (another substantial bit), etc.

To me, when I read these novels, I see Waterdeep as the same as it always was, full of great beauty and great darkness both.

Cheers
Alruane Posted - 18 Nov 2013 : 06:59:27
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I've read two of the books, and while I did enjoy the stories, seeing that my favorite place in the Realms was no longer all that splendid really impacted my enjoyment of the books. It's why I've not read any other 4E novels.



What did they do to Waterdeep? I was looking forward to reading these, but if they took the luster out...it just seems less interesting. Sadly.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 18 Nov 2013 : 04:48:23
I've read two of the books, and while I did enjoy the stories, seeing that my favorite place in the Realms was no longer all that splendid really impacted my enjoyment of the books. It's why I've not read any other 4E novels.
Alruane Posted - 17 Nov 2013 : 21:25:20
I'd LOVE to vote on this, sadly, I have not yet read any though. But they all look fantastic! I shall have to mark them down as something I need to read very soon.
Azuth Posted - 27 Jan 2012 : 23:51:22
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The omnibus is not in hardcover. It's trade paperback. At least a mote better than mass market.



Hence my use of the word "when."

Azuth

Rosemary Jones Posted - 27 Jan 2012 : 17:32:08
OMNIBUS 2 is available now, so you can get caught up with Erin, James, and my contribution to this series.

Cheers!
Dennis Posted - 27 Jan 2012 : 09:46:48
quote:
Originally posted by Azuth

quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

Just wanted to mention that the Ed Greenwood Presents: Waterdeep omnibus book 1 (Blackstaff Tower, Mistshore, Downshadow) is out now, to fulfill all your Waterdeep needs!

http://www.amazon.com/Greenwood-Presents-Waterdeep-Book-Collection/dp/0786958189/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310740703&sr=8-1

There will be an omnibus for the second three books as well. Eyes peeled.

Cheers




Thanks, Erik! I look forward to the complete saga in hardcover, someday.

Azuth





The omnibus is not in hardcover. It's trade paperback. At least a mote better than mass market.
Azuth Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 22:53:48
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

Just wanted to mention that the Ed Greenwood Presents: Waterdeep omnibus book 1 (Blackstaff Tower, Mistshore, Downshadow) is out now, to fulfill all your Waterdeep needs!

http://www.amazon.com/Greenwood-Presents-Waterdeep-Book-Collection/dp/0786958189/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310740703&sr=8-1

There will be an omnibus for the second three books as well. Eyes peeled.

Cheers




Thanks, Erik! I look forward to the complete saga in hardcover, someday.

Azuth


Thauranil Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 10:11:00
The God Catcher was my favorite though i detested City of The Dead since it came out as a Young Adult Twilight-ish type of book.
Erik Scott de Bie Posted - 15 Jul 2011 : 15:38:58
Just wanted to mention that the Ed Greenwood Presents: Waterdeep omnibus book 1 (Blackstaff Tower, Mistshore, Downshadow) is out now, to fulfill all your Waterdeep needs!

http://www.amazon.com/Greenwood-Presents-Waterdeep-Book-Collection/dp/0786958189/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310740703&sr=8-1

There will be an omnibus for the second three books as well. Eyes peeled.

Cheers
BARDOBARBAROS Posted - 14 Jul 2011 : 18:56:16
Circle of Skulls (James P. Davis)
Diffan Posted - 14 Jul 2011 : 15:57:50
I bought the 3-book anthology (Blackstaff Tower, Mistshore, and Downshadow) and have delved pretty deeply into Downshadow first. It's been an amazing book so far and I highly recommend it to anyone (Realms fan or not). Though I must admit that I'll probably like any novel where a Paladin is the protagonist (which is sorta rare in Realms books).

Looking to read Blackstaff Tower (even though I know what happens in the end) and then Mistshore.
danbuter Posted - 03 Jul 2011 : 16:42:00
It's a tossup between Mistshore and City of the Dead for me. I am currently reading Downshadow, and it's decent.
GRYPHON Posted - 03 Jul 2011 : 15:08:48
Liked them all...
Tyrant Posted - 03 Jul 2011 : 04:12:15
I liked them all. I did like some more than others, though not by a terribly wide margin. It has been a while since I read the first few so my comments may be short on details as to why I liked them. I will start taking notes on the FR books I read one of these days.

Blackstaff Tower-It was nice to see how things are getting along without Khelben running the show. I recall the villain had an interesting magical device allowing him to swap out magic rings at will. I thought that was interesting.

Mistshore-I liked the setting and the characters. The wrecked ships being used as buildings and the general underbelly nature of the whole thing.

Downshadow-Erik managed to make a Paladin that I liked. I am looking forward to the followup as he takes on Luskan.

City of the Dead-It was interesting to see a book on the lighter side. No big battles or epic duels. Just a family doing their (rather interesting) part in the city of Waterdeep with a questionable wizard getting involved.

The God Catcher-This was the first inside look at Xorvintaal (I think). I liked the idea of people living on one of the statues. I liked the blue dragon character who's name I can't recall. I think I have a soft spot for characters that have fallen from greatness/lost their power and now have to deal with the frustration that they used to be much more than they are now.

Circle of Skulls-I like Devil/Demon centric stories so I liked this one. A fallen/evil Angel, a Deva, and the Cult of Asmodeus. Sign me up.

I really liked the overall idea of the books. Using a series of books to provide an in depth look at a single, in this case rather large, location to show the highs and the lows, the powerful and the man on the street, I would love to see other series like this set elsewhere in the Realms.
Alisttair Posted - 03 Jul 2011 : 01:08:15
I enjoyed them all. I want more Waterdeep!!
GRYPHON Posted - 31 May 2011 : 15:14:05
Liked them all...
Lord Karsus Posted - 31 May 2011 : 06:03:29
-Downshadow. I never read it fully, but read a chapter or two while waiting in the bookstore a little bit after it came out, and then skimmed through the middle parts and end. Like Steven Schend's books, Erik is very good at mixing in Realmslore and detail to his books that might not be particularly relevant to the specific story, per se, but greatly add to the 'depth' the book has, in terms of feeling like something from the Forgotten Realms. I never picked up any of Blackstaff Tower, and based on Blackstaff, I felt that sometimes Steve's writing was...I don't know how to describe it- maybe chalked full of too much detail, so that the passage is too long-winded or confusing or not relevant, something like that. Erik, I really can't say that I felt that way in his books, so I voted for his book.
The Sage Posted - 31 May 2011 : 05:54:11
quote:
Originally posted by Azuth

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

I want an "I like them ALL!" option.



Fair enough, but that's six explanations of why. :-)


That's easy enough. Though, I'll respect that fact that others may not have read some or all of these books, so I'll attempt to be as SPOILERLESS as possible.

Blackstaff Tower -- Mostly, because of the lore Steven Schend always manages to weave into his tales. You really feel the Realms as a living world with a history that still manages to touch upon the "modern day."

Mistshore -- Jaleigh Johnson offered both an intriguing setting, and a glimpse of the City of Splendors that we don't often find ourselves being attracted to. Johnson accomplished both, and made it the perfect new sandbox for Waterdeep-based campaigns.

Downshadow -- This was, for me, the masterwork of the entire series. Evocatively memorable characters, plenty of daring-do, intrigue, suspense, and satisfying amounts of juicy Realmslore tidbits. And it's all dropped into the already-turbulent miasma of society that is Waterdeep.

City of the Dead -- I remember jokingly chatting with Rosemary here at Candlekeep, when the title and setting for this novel was first announced. Immediately, I was attracted to the fact that one of my favourite aspects of Waterdeep would finally receive much needed attention in the "Ed Greenwood Presents" series. The provocative style of Rosemary's characters, especially the portrayal of the Carvers, helped to "seal the deal," so to speak.

The God Catcher -- I'll be honest, the title of this novel was so cool, that I did what I've rarely done before. I judged a novel purely on the basis of the title. And I wasn't at all disappointed. This was my first exposure to the fiction of Evans, and I know for sure, now, as a result of my experience with The God Catcher, that it won't be my last.

Circle of Skulls -- I harboured a secret hope that something about either Myrkul and/or Bhaal would pop up in this tale. The whole "murderer" aspect of the novel, was no doubt chilling, but it was the way in which Davis presented this plot, that made me feel like I was reading an entirely new take on an old staple of murder/crime fiction.

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