| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 07:56:55
One of the things I've been working on for my game is a rival group of adventurers. My PC's are all around 12-16th level. Unless something unforeseen happens, I plan on keeping these rivals around as recurring villains. Have any of the experienced DM's out there done this before? If so, any advice? |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 13 Dec 2010 : 21:37:48
Yeah, they were gone for a month. The PCs found that to be ridiculous. They felt they could've handled it on a weekend.
Just one of the reasons I now give creatures a +1 to hit for every additional ally they have threatening the opponent. So, with a full circle, that Kobold's getting a +7 bonus to his attack. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 13 Dec 2010 : 18:38:34
10,000 kobolds. That's a lot. Might even need two fireballs.  |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 13 Dec 2010 : 17:31:18
In my running of Ruins of Adventure I did throw together an alternate adventuring group from several of the stock NPCs in the introduction. They got the "deal with the tribe of 10,000 kobolds" mission from the council while the PCs got a bunch of the quicker fixes. I tried to give them a reasonable timeline, while the PCs sort of charged full bore through their quests. So, by the time the npc group got back, the PCs had done most everything left of importance there. I killed several off during the battle of new phlan, and in the end only "Spear" survived. He was commissioned into the City Guardsmen and remains there 10 years later. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 02:49:34
MT- ROFLMAO!!!! I've ALWAYS wanted to use the house hunter mimic!!! Speaking of mimics, I had a nasty trap once where a mimic posed as a mirror at the end of a dead-end hallway, with an inscription written on it that was small enough to encourage players to walk right up to it. Underneath was a hidden pit trap- with a green jelly at the bottom.... Yes, I'm THAT evil! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 00:45:15
If you attacked your PCs with a pair of Caryatid columns (holding a cloaker above and between them?), would that constitute an 'arch' enemy?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Which now reminds me of that enormous mimic from Ravenloft that could look like a house or other building. How unfair is that?
"You walk up to the dungeon entrance - as far as you can tell its a normal opening in the clifface, and you can make-out a tunnel that leads down"
"We go in"
"The dungeon was the monster - the entrance was it's mouth - roll new characters."
Thats some serious 'Ebil DM' right there.
I suppose having Ronald McDonald as an arch-enemy would be a bit cliche'.
How about a Jermlaine that comes out of nowhere all the time and bites your ankles? (okay, that's not the arch of the foot, but still pretty funny, if you make it a recurring joke). |
| Jorin Embersmith |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 23:16:47
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd have the recurring baddies show up a couple of times over the course of 4-5 adventures. The first time would be after a supreme dungeon crawl, after the PCs are victorious but low on HPs and spells -- that's when the baddies show up and do a Belloq from Raiders of the Lost Ark: "Dr. Jones. Again we see there is nothing you can possess which I cannot take away."
The second encounter could be anything, so long as the baddies get away (preferably, with whatever the PCs were after or at least after a partial success).
And then the third encounter is when the two groups get thrown into a really bad situation and have to cooperate to survive. 
I have someone EXACTLY like that in my campaign. My players are just infinitely frustrated and its AWESOME.
Basically, I took the idea from the DMG II (3.5) City of Salt Marsh, there's a listing in there for some unguilded thief bearing the sobriquet "Scarlet Thorn".
She has been following my players' careers with interest while they go around looking for loot, and most times they come back to a city to get RR&R (Rest, Recuperation & Remuneration)they inevitably find several valuable items missing, with metal or wooden carvings of a rose left in its place!
Also, they encounter a female of any race with red hair sometime that same day....coincidence? I THINK NOT!
I have just recently statted her, my PCs having reached about half her level:
Corianne aka (The) Scarlet Thorn
Female Human Rogue 10/Sorc(Illus)9 CR 19
AL LE. Str 10, Dex 20, Int 12, Wis 9, Cha 20
Standard attacks and such, choose your own illusion spells and forbidden schools, except transmutation.
Corianne's history is unknown, but her daring (some would say foolhardy)escapades has earned her the enmity of several of the Sword Coast's biggest thieves' guilds.
She has a habit of trailing adventuring parties, unseen and unheard and then deftly making off with just a few of their hard-won valuables, leaving her calling card (a carving of a rose) in their places just as the heroes think they are safely back to civilization.
She loves to taunt her victims, using elaborate and near-impenetrable illusions to appear as various women, but her favorites are an old human crone and a comely gnomish maiden (both with red hair).
In her true form, she is a 30-something sprite of a woman, barely topping 5 feet, with flaming red hair braided down to the small of her back. Lustrous hazel eyes and her magically-enchanced lipstick (poison!) of ruby red (along with an impressive bosom) seal the deal, marking her one of the great beauties along with the likes of Asper, Queen Amlaruil and Qilue of the Seven Sisters.
As a matter of fact, think YoSafBridge from Firefly but with longer straight hair and no freckles!
Carienne venerates Mask and Sune in equal measure, is becoming worried of losing her fabulous looks as she ever ages, and thus will make almost any deal in order to keep them. She has dismissed the idea of becoming a vampire, having dispatched one that the Night Masks sent after her and seeing it up close.
Weapons: Blood (+2 Dagger, Casts Poison [as the spell] 3/day) and Tears (+2 Ghost Touch Dagger), which she wields with consummate skill.
Notable Items: Ring of Nondetection, Choker of Charisma +2 (as cloak), Wand of Major Image: CL 9, 18 charges. Corset of Alter Self (as Hat of Disguise). Boots of Flying. Gloves of Storing (pair). Ring of Silence (as the spell, self only) CL 9, 3/day
Use her well! |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 21:37:47
I love/hate the site. It's hard to avoid being sucked in for hours, and my wee computer beastie gets a little confused when I open a few dozen tabs. |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 20:34:41
TV Tropes, Aric, what a potentially useful story building tool. Great Stuff! |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 20:06:45
True enough, but most of the "Hell" they wrought was accidental. And remember what happend to them when they pissed off Willow after she went "evil" herself..... Flayed alive is NOT the best way for a "baddie" to go, lol! Never read the comics, BTW, although I did enjoy the Angel comic book arc of "Play Time". The only time I ever picked up either series in comic format. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 19:53:30
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
The Trio?! you're joking, right? That's not a raival, that's just funny!! You do know their track record, right? ;)
Arik- I wasn't aware of a Jedi by that name- did David Xanatos somehow do a time-slip from Avalon into the SW universe? Sounds like something he'd do- go find a galaxy to rule as an iron-fisted sith lord tyrant....
Sure, they were a joke most of the time, but look at what hell they wrought. Warren accidentally killed Tara when trying to kill Buffy (resulting in becoming a big baddie himself in the canonical comic books). Then Andrew also opened the Seal of Danzalthar under the Sunnydale high school, letting the First Evil gain some mojo.
Just remember, sometimes the joke villains get sick of being jokes...  |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 19:18:47
I wasn't really aware of that Jedi either. Then I summoned a google search for Xanatos and, after clicking on the Wookiepedia link in mild curiosity, I was suddenly reminded that I'd seen this guy before. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 19:05:26
The Trio?! you're joking, right? That's not a raival, that's just funny!! You do know their track record, right? ;)
Arik- I wasn't aware of a Jedi by that name- did David Xanatos somehow do a time-slip from Avalon into the SW universe? Sounds like something he'd do- go find a galaxy to rule as an iron-fisted sith lord tyrant.... |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 18:30:17
I have plans for my Shadowrun campaign. I'm going to use Food Fight to get the players started, but plan on having the gang they beat up becoming recurring villains (more like the The Trio from Buffy or The Pack from Gargoyles than actual Arch-Enemies), then have a real knock-down drag out right before the major climax of the campaign. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 18:26:57
Xanatos Gambit is the currently trendy descriptor for a very old and very well known story trope. The term is probably drawn from a mixture of David Xanatos from Gargoyles and Xanatos the (Dark) Jedi of Star Wars fiction.
Yes, I was something of a "fan" of Gargoyles in the sense that I never hunted for (or saw much of) it, but liked it and would usually watch (or record) the show whenever I noticed it on TV. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 18:24:53
I'd have the recurring baddies show up a couple of times over the course of 4-5 adventures. The first time would be after a supreme dungeon crawl, after the PCs are victorious but low on HPs and spells -- that's when the baddies show up and do a Belloq from Raiders of the Lost Ark: "Dr. Jones. Again we see there is nothing you can possess which I cannot take away."
The second encounter could be anything, so long as the baddies get away (preferably, with whatever the PCs were after or at least after a partial success).
And then the third encounter is when the two groups get thrown into a really bad situation and have to cooperate to survive. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 17:53:45
Arik, are you by chance a Gargoyles fan? Just wondering- you mentioned Xanatos as a villain-type. (Funny thing- my black cat is named after his ally/enemy Demona...) I have only ever done one possibly recurring villain- a dwarven necromancer who was using evil murderous dolls to kill the parents of children who bought the dolls, and then taking them into her "orphanage to later sell as slaves to duergars and other nefarious types. Several dolls were left unaccounted for, and she got away after faking her death. Unfortunately, the PC's never got to her second appearance, nor did they ever find all of the missing dolls. Would have been fun, though. Especially after the little halfling boy started acting funny..... |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 17:31:52
I wonder why this post is still reading zero replies.
Anyway, I've had recurring villains many a time, but a rival group of adventurers that are both well equipped and similarly motivated,(GP, XP, Loot) is a little different for my campaign. They do not have a set goal that they want to accomplish at the moment, but now that they have run afoul of my PC's are hellbent on vengeance. Originally, I hijacked them from the module Deep Horizon which I plan on running, but I have modified them beyond recognition. The group includes the gold-elven twins and Eldreth Veluuthra agents, Engrim Hyshaanth a Bladesinger (ranger/mage) and his sister Eryyna a Shadowdancer/Velkyn Velve (a custom elven PrC, thrown dagger specialist) and favored of Vhaerun, one of his mortal consorts. (Yes, Vhaerun is still around in my Realms.) and their "friend" the psychotic killjoy Quickling come Redcap. Rounding out their group is a Duergar assassin Tegost who wears platemail of etherealness. I would like to keep this group around for a while, constantly harrassing the PC's and occasionally beating them to the prize. |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 17:08:45
Our group had to deal with Tyranthraxus twice. We also ran across the adventures in Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor several times before starting that adventure. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 17:01:21
Recurring villains are cool and expected, but don't forget to let them die now and then. Otherwise the players feel like you're just railroading them against unkillable Elminsters. They wonder why they even bother to fight a guy who'll only drop flashbombs and Teleport away to some unscryable safehold. They don't even gain a sense of accomplishment when it appears none of their actions thwart the villain's plans in the slightest.
I find the classic approach of "staggered" villains lets the players do some killing and thus feel more manly and happy with their purpose in life. Introduce the great archvillain a little bit at a time through his disposable henchlings, filet minions, and nefarious plots of ever-increasing competence and complexity. Ideally, you can worm the players into thinking that even their apparent successes against the underlings were all part of some masterfully engineered Xanatos plot which they've played into. |
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