| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Quale |
Posted - 20 Oct 2010 : 14:02:46
trying imagine which fey realms border and are coterminous with particular parts of the North and how would the Realms' ''echo'' or the Feywild looks like geographically
if you had a bunch of conflicting sources on the fey, like Bastion Press' Faeries, Pathfinder's AP #36, 4e's Feywild, Dragon 367, Beyond Countless Doorways, Planescape stuff from Planes of Chaos and Tir na Nog, etc., how would you make them all work together?
e.g. Auril's realm could be north of the Spine of the World, the Lands of Eternal Summer in the Greenfields, or the Sands of Time in Anauroch
any idea is welcomed |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Oct 2016 : 20:57:47
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Boy, I hope that's the High Forest.
{Walks away whistling} |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 01 Oct 2016 : 07:40:42
Boy, I hope that's the High Forest. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Oct 2016 : 06:45:18
Still haven't gone through this thread in its entirety - got sidetracked by two map projects.
One of which is the reason why I came back here. Still waiting for permission to post that one - its been a long time in the making, and someone should enjoy it.  |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 01 Oct 2016 : 00:05:17
Looking forward to anything you have to add on the nature of the Changing Courts, Markus. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Sep 2016 : 21:33:35
Same here - its just easier to hmebrew everything these days, and cherry-pick what you want from all different sources/IP's. 
But still a LOT of amazing ideas got tossed around here. Its got me thinking about all kinds of stuff now.  |
| Quale |
Posted - 30 Sep 2016 : 18:24:02
Nice to see this again after so long, it was fun
tough I've moved on to a different cosmology, too many conflicting sources
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Sep 2016 : 19:47:52
I am just re-reading through this entire thread (only at the 3rd pg. right now), and all I can say is WOW - what a GOLDMINE of ideas! I had forgotten about 80% of this stuff! And some of the links! Awesome!
Thank You Fellfire, for pointing this back out to me - I had mis-remembered where/when we had the 'seasonal courts' discussion.
And Quale... I forgot about some our 'deep' FR/D&D conversations. This brings back some really great memories. Everyone involved in this contributed some great stuff! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 08:05:56
I forget where. It may have been a '3e thing'. It is canon, however. He made people 'forget' about him slowly over time (so that by the time 3e rolled-around, most Faerunians didn't remember him).
Yes, after the ToT a cult did arise, but it was short-lived, because his 'priests' did not receive any spells. It was a 'fad'.
The more I think about it, the more I am thinking it may have been a late 2e piece of lore - I don't think 3e mentioned Ao at all. |
| Razz |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 03:18:22
Where does it say that people forgot about Ao after he broke th tablets? Last I remember, an entire cult rose up after his appearance and have become philosophers about him since. As it says in Faiths&Avatars I think (or maybe Powers&Pantheons) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Sep 2012 : 05:49:26
Yeah, thats my thinking. They were created by the eight Jarls of the Giant Kingdom and were meant to control the primitive proto-dragons (linnorm) of the time. Each was created from the lifeforce of a celestial dragon.
Once the magic was cast that set the dragons 'in the heavens', the orbs went dormant. Then, when Ostoria got shifted to Toril (I still have to check the timeline regarding all this), this affected the rune magic used by the Giants in their binding-spells, and the dragons (eggs) were released from their suspended animation in the Phlogiston and rained down upon many worlds. The dragon orbs became active in the mulitverse when dragons entered a sphere an orb was in, but they had been changed - they now each affect only a single (major) sub-species.
Normally only seven 'dragonballs' are available as artifacts in the mutiverse. The eigth one - held by the fhoimorien King - was never released from Faerie, and remains in the grasp of its evil creator. This is the Gold dragon orb, and it is said that if all seven of the others are gathered in one place, then the eighth will shatter and set the celestial dragon's spirit free.
At which time, he will grant one wish to the possessor of the Orbs, after which the artifacts are once-again redistributed throughout the cosmos.
Yeah... I went there....  |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 Sep 2012 : 02:08:19
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
EDIT: I just realized that I created the Orbs of Dragonkind before I say (modern) dragon sub-species existed - I'll have to tweak that. I'm thinking the original orbs were more generic, and became altered over time (once they gained artifact status).
Well, there are some theories buried in very old DRAGONLANCE lore that suggests those Orbs of Dragonkind existed long before the dragons plagued Krynn. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Sep 2012 : 19:19:31
Yeah, I'm saving Blackmoor for when I need to repair something else. Good call.
EDIT: I just realized that I created the Orbs of Dragonkind before I say (modern) dragon sub-species existed - I'll have to tweak that. I'm thinking the original orbs were more generic, and became altered over time (once they gained artifact status). |
| Quale |
Posted - 03 Sep 2012 : 19:11:35
there's also Blackmoor, I think it existed in three worlds, it's not impossible, in a similar way I'm including parts of other cities in my version of Sigil |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Sep 2012 : 19:11:12
You know, Ostoria NOT always being on Toril fixes quite a few things (GK/James brothers/BC take note) - Some of us have already figured out there had to have been two separate Ostorias.
Now I'm thinking Ostoria was a giant Kingdom in the 'True World' (on an infinitely large plane, such things would be near-meaningless), and then it was elsewhere for awhile (Abeir is the obvious choice, but the Feywild works better with giant/fey legends). Then at some point (I'd have to study that portion of the timeline again) Ostoria reappears on Toril, which would include the Great Glacier. Giants and dragons would not have become enemies until after they come to Toril. I assume the Giants created the Orbs of Dragonkind, and when their lands got shunted onto Toril they lost track of them (because when you try to move an artifact between worlds, it disappears). Ergo, the dragons finally break the hold the giants had on them, and the war between the two begins.
Also, while in the Feywild, the dragons would have been of the more primitive linnorm variety. Once on Toril (and freed from giant control), they have evolved into the creatures we see today.
This all works, because Ulutiu seems very much like some sort of fey creature (he's described fairly well in some short story by Denning). Now my problem is that I just over-wrote my theories on how the dragons wound up being 'seeded' into space. Perhaps this occurred after Ostoria disappeared from the Feywild? The giants were greatly weakened by this (at least half their forces gone), and they struck that deal with the fey (at that point, they may have been dealing with elves, and the fey may have already 'withdrawn from the world').
Hmmmm... that works... and then linnorms come over to Toril with the giants. However, the 'seeded' dragons that were placed in suspended animation would have been changed by being immersed for so long in the Phlogiston (which I think is the 1e/2e/3e vestige of the original Elemental Maelstrom). Ergo, when the 'dragon eggs' begin to shower down on Toril (and other worlds), a new type of dragon is born - the modern, European (D&D) varieties. Why/how the dragon eggs eventually managed to enter Crystal Spheres all over the multiverse should remain a mystery.
I just need to review the timeline(s), and figure out precisely how the War of Light & Shadow shoe-horns with the war of the gods. Time for me to start reading some 4e cosmological fluff. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 02 Sep 2012 : 23:12:03
Yeah, that was very bare-bones, and I left quite a bit out. I know my posts tend to be over-long, and (believe it or not) that was me self-editing.
I'd still rather connect the terrestrial dragons to the celestial ones. Maybe the Eldritch giants took the 'essence' of the Celestial Dragons and applied it to a group of dwarves, creating the first linnorms? I'll have to re-visit the dragon mythos and see how I can piece that together. On the other hand, perhaps I can use the World serpent for some of this (her essence was scattered when the world was shattered). Hmmmm... just realized, the 'world serpent' had to have been Gaia in my theory, or some amalgam of gaia and the dying Ymir. (I think that may go to some of my earliest musings - "Gaia wrapped herself around the dying form of Ymir, enveloping him in coils of her living essence"). Thus, the many worlds of the multiverse are the physical matter of Ymir (Prime Material) infused with the essence (Mana) of Gaia, which shoe-horns well with what we know of magic (that life = magic, and the world is encased by it).
I have no trouble weaving together all the RW mythology, and even most of D&D's - where I run into trouble is when I try to link it all up to FR's mythos. Strangely, when you study RW mythology and religions, they are not all that different (and I'd rather not get into that topic, because you could dedicate a whole forum to it, and it would have nothing to do with D&D).
I've decided that I love the Abeir/Spellplague stuff just because it provides me with an easy out for my conundrum. I don't have to pick a world - the events of Twilight Giants (the proto-history part) could have happened on Abeir, or even in the Feywild. After re-reading what I wrote, I realized I provided my own answer. If Faerie is a lot like Ravenloft, then that means places can be swapped back-and-forth, and we even have canon (RL & DL canon) of the same geographic location being on two different worlds at the same time.
Ergo, Ostoria may not have always been in Northern Faerun.
Every time there is some sort of magical chaos (ToT, Spellplague, Karsus' folly, the dark Disaster, etc, etc), not only do realms get swapped between Abeir and Toril, but realms may get 'borrowed' by RL and Faerie. This helps a lot when I need FR-specific events to have happened elsewhere. And if it works just like it does in Ravenloft, then mortals aren't even aware when these things happen; memories are altered to fit the new geography and/or people (and we do have canon FR precedents for this, both in what Ao did regarding himself after the ToT, and what they did to Kiaransalee).
The setting itself is not even canon, when you look at it that way - there is no canon. The setting is the way folks remember it, which may change the next time an RSE hits (read: new edition). I used to hate that, but it is kind of elegant, in its own way. You can't actually have conflicts because part of the canon is that the world changes, along with how folks remember it.
So maybe everything is just like Ravenloft... but I've said that before, I think. They just keep rebooting The Matrix. |
| Quale |
Posted - 02 Sep 2012 : 22:08:50
I don't know, too many mythologies mixed together. What about the linnorms, they are proto-dragons, could be that the fey war against dragons was cause the linnorms started devouring the World Tree (Faerie) and tore the connections between the worlds. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 02 Sep 2012 : 20:13:03
I did something similar - in some of my earliest cosmological musings, I had it where the tier of cosmic beings above primordials were called Drękons - a word in some ancient celestial tongue that loosely translates as "creature of immense power". Giants were the creations (pale reflections) of primordials, and dragons the creation of the Drękons. Both were vying for supremacy in 'The World' (the Prime Material plane, which was just one vast plane back then, before it was shattered into Crystal Spheres). You'll recall I also used Ymir (which I renamed Imar, so it wouldn't be so obvious). I borrow heavily from Norse mythology - my 'True World' concept is actually Midgard.
Once I switched to the 'Ordials' model, I dropped Drękons (they still exist as one of the three groups within the Ordial tier, I just stopped using that name). Prime Ordials are actually the lowest tier of the Ordials (Over-gods).
I've linked the Black Diamond to the Fey fleeing Toril (it shoe-horns well), which means the dwarves would have had to have been present when that occurred. According to the GHotR, the Le'Shay (Fey) have 'ruled Faerie' since -34,000 DR. Thats a bit of a problem since Dwarves weren't seen in FR until -16,000. I could fudge things, but still, that an 18,000 year gap!
I had assumed (my own theory) that Faerie was to the Feywild what Ravenloft was to the Domains of Dread - a central hub off of which the rest grew. However, that doesn't account for the Giants. Going by the timeline, Faerie existed long before the world was sundered. Since I theorize that the sundering was much greater then what we are told - that all the worlds, not just Abier - were created at that time, this had to have been when the Giants were also 'displaced'. Going with the Ravenloft-like creation theory of the Feywild, that means the Giant Realms could have been added to the feywild at this time.
So I think the Leshay created Faerie - probably some sort of pocket-dimension that they were able to link their nature to (so as to become 'native outsiders' in regards to Abeir-Toril). Faerie itself is the personification of the Fey 'overmind' - like divine worship, they both 'feed it', and draw from it. Then other realms began to appear connected to Faerie - something the Fey never expected. This probably began during the god wars. Over time (including 1e/2e/3e/4e) this new, 'expanded' Faerie became known as the Feywild, and by the time 3e/4e came around, entire other planes became folded into it (like Olympus & Arvandor, the beastlands, etc). It went from a demi-plane, to a full plane, to a dimension (which can incorporate several planes). I think Ravenloft underwent a similar process, although it was folded into the Plane of Shadows, to become the Shadowfel. No real difference, except how we look at it.
I went way off my point... sorry...
Anyhow, I believe Ymir (my Imar) 'died' during the god wars. In fact his death was the first death, which brought death itself into being (which means before this time, the Creatori {Creator Races} were immortal). Gaia (the embodiment of mana, or 'life force'/creation energy) merged her essence with 'the world' (the dying Ymir, who embodied the material plane). When she did this, the 'maggots' (some sort of cosmic parasite, really) were transformed into the dwarves.
Annam was the 'child' of Ymir and gaia - he was created to go forth and create others, and build the world (create/extend the prime material plane). He begat the (greater) Titans, who in turn created others. Technically, this makes Annam a primordial (perhaps the first primordial - the laborers of the Ordial tier). Annam would have been known as the 'All Father' to the giants, and would later be venerated by the Dwarves (first, as the all father, and later as the Creator, when he was confused with his father Ymir). Amongst other things, Annam All-Father brought the gift of Rune Magic to the Giants and dwarves.
So now I need to figure out why the dwarves were involved in the Black Diamond, when that occurred (could the fey have still had a presence on Toril up until -16,000 DR?), and why the giants and dwarves had a 'falling out'. I can come up with stuff involving the Giant-kin, but Troy Denning kinda nerfed all that already. And where do the dragons figure in? Could they have been created by the eldritch giants from Dwarves? It would fit some of the folklore around dwarves, but none of the folklore around dragons. The only way that could possibly work is if terrestrial dragons and celestial dragons were not related, and I'm just not comfortable with that premise.
Current theory/explanation:
Dragons exist, and are uber-powerful. Giants decide to use their 'little cousins' to create their own dragons (perhaps corrupting their natural ability of creation into 'destruction'). Somehow the Fey find this an affront, and go to war with the giants and their dragons. Fey find out about how these terrestrial dragons were created, and tell the dwarves, who are horrified at what their giant-kin have done. Dwarves are hesitant to fight their own corrupted kin, so a deal is struck - dwarves would fight the giants, and fey would battle their abominations. The war would have lasted centuries, perhaps millenia, and eventually the Fey and giants have enough and come to terms. Both of those peoples would have fragmented themselves over time, into hundreds of sub-races, some of which removed themselves from the conflict by going to other worlds. The same would have happened to the dwarves and dragons.
As part of their treaty, the fey and Giants perform a massive magical ritual - the first of its kind - that encapsulate the dragons and banish them from the Feywild. These 'dragon seeds' are later accidentally released upon the multiverse, when the true World is sundered. Most of the dwarves, being upset over the turn of events, leave the feywild as well. They felt betrayed by everyone involved.
This explains the animosities, and even the cultural personalities of the peoples involved. The dragons are still a problem, but I can tinker with them. I wanted to bring the giant-kin into it, but that may be over-complicating things. Besides, I still have to explain why Annam felt it necessary to go to Toril post-Sundering and father 'new' versions of the giant races. I really wish I could over-write some of that canon - it would be so much better if the whole FR giant mythos happened on the true World, or even in the feywild. Even if I said Annam 'knocked Ulutiu clear into another plane' (FR), it doesn't work, because the Twilight Giants clearly state that all of that happened on Toril. If it happened on the pre-sundered world (which it should have), it would all work, but I think the GHotR nerfs that as well. |
| Quale |
Posted - 02 Sep 2012 : 15:09:36
For giants vs. dwarves, maybe it's related to the origins of the dwarves. At least in mythology, dwarves were worms from Ymir's corpse. Also if giants ruled the plane before the elves, it could be that the dark gem the dwarves found was from the giant era.
Another ancient animosity is fey vs. aberrations, in Mystara Immortals believe that dragons and draedens are closely related, despite the differences in physical forms. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 19:53:48
I am working on my 'unified creation theory' again, which assumes a common 'True World' from which all others sprang.
I am currently having a hard time stitching all the pieces together between the dwarves, Dragons, and giants (there is definitely some sort of primeval kinship going on there), and the Fey. I have the relationship between the Giants and Fey nailed down (the Feywild belonged to the giants first, or at least, vast swaths of it), but connecting the other three together into something logical is a bit harder. Giants and dwarves have similar culture and writing-styles (and magic), and in folklore greedy dwarves could become dragons (and in FR, we have one case of a vengeful elf becoming a dragon). I'm not talking about 'on purpose' (through magic), but rather something that occurs automatically over time when very extreme emotions consume a person.
On top of this, I have the less-then-steller FR Giant lore, which doesn't shoe-horn at all into what I am doing (I hate FR-specifc origins - they make little sense, IMHO), and I also have Abeir to contend with now.
If I assume rune Magic is a more ancient form of magic (as it should be), that means it should be related to the primordials, and giants and primordials have obvious connections in folklore/mythology. I'm starting to lean toward giants being a type of 'First Men' in the world, which works on several levels, but isn't perfect. I also need to stitch together the FR giant origins with a broader multiversal origin, which is made more difficult by the giant deities having nothing to do with the giants in FR (which is so friggin' lame). FR's giants were created by their patriarchs, which aren't the same as the giantish deities (I should have asked Troy Denning at Gencon why he felt the need to create an entire new pantheon, instead of using the existing one). And then there is Othea and Annam.
I have some stuff worked-out for Annam, which I don't love, but its the only way to make certain things fit. Othea had to have been something akin to an archfey, or some sort of elemental spirit. I can leave her until I need to define her (which can help stitch something else together at some point). I'd love to move the entire creation story off-world - probably the Feywild - but I can't, because it is intrinsically linked to the Great Glacier. The Abeir-Toril thing might help with this, but I haven't figured out how to spin that.
Anyone have any ideas about the giant/dwarf/elf/dragon relationship? Their are some ancient animosities there, and we also have that blurb in the GHotR which states the fey sent elves to FR to fight with dragons (maybe - they could have just been sent to deal with them in other ways). I really want to make a lot of this 'go down' in the Feywild, which is why I am posting in this thread. |
| archmagestar |
Posted - 27 Aug 2012 : 05:05:45
In the Dragonlance setting the Irda were a divinely beautiful race with magical abilities until they were cursed and changed into ugly idiots. Its a common fairy tale theme with ogres. In the Forgotten Realms ogres are not refered to being realted as giant kin. I tend to lean toward the Mystara approach as they seem to be a slightly bigger version of a Bugbear. |
| Kno |
Posted - 15 Aug 2012 : 12:32:27
There was a huge war with the dragons, that why they are so few |
| Markustay |
Posted - 15 Aug 2012 : 07:37:34
Hmph... I must think on this more.
I like the part about the changelings - I may have to tie that in somewhere. Maybe they don't have enough 'life-force' to breed with one another, but they can manage with another mortal race? So they are not truly dead, nor truly alive; they've entered into some sort of unique quasi-dead state to enable themselves to survive the cataclysm.
The only problem is that that line of reasoning means there still can be no new True Fey. On the other hand, the first one born in a millenia would be worthy of an epic tale (and perhaps the start of a new 'golden age' for the Fey - it could be the 'sign' they have been waiting for).
Like I said, I have to think this over the next few days. I'll have plenty of time - and plenty of great folks to bounce ideas off of. |
| Quale |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 23:55:49
Well before my explanation for the fey creator race was that after the Fall they could choose between immortality and the ability to procreate. I based it on the myth from Tall Tales of the Wee Folk. The fey creator race existed in the previous cycle of the multiverse, they were the Race of Destiny in that reality, they managed to escape its end by incarnating into this new multiverse. Now their bodies were no longer perfect and incompatible with the new laws of reality. So the choice was to stay as they were, flawed but manageable (your take that they're ''dead'' is not that different), or attempt to go through evolution again, starting with lesser forms like brownies. When they realized that humans are the ''chosen'' race this time, some Fey started stealing changeling babies, transferring their energies to human bloodlines.
The jumps from the previous multiverse were random, my only explanation why there are no new Fey is that after the Black Diamond most of the incarnations stopped. The Fey were not the only race who did this, one example are the arcane/mercane who have their own unique methods, they also can't reproduce without huge sacrifices. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 22:03:04
I am working on a system (in my head) wherein large groups of creatures formally consider separate races could have a single 'proto-race' archtype and lots and lots templates/Feats to deviate them from the archtype (to the point where the original barely even exist anymore). This extends to such iconic groups as Giants and dragons, but also to groups you normally wouldn't expect (like my connecting all the aberrations together in my HB world). In the case of Giants and dragons, you'd just tack-on a elemental (or other) template to give you the various types. IMG, the size of the giant is more dependent upon its age, not its type. Giants who do not take a template do not ever evolve (they start-off as Hill giants, and if they don't specialize they simply become Mountain Giants). Ergo, IMG, Hill giants are just immature giants (children, literally). They are also only male (the females are Hags), but thats once-again my HB world/rules and not D&D/FR.
Here's my problem while giving this treatment to the Fey - why are there no 'new' Fey? I'm not talking about brownies, satyrs, or little winged thingies, etc - I am talking about the sidhe (shee, sith). The original tall, elf-like forbears of all the others. I am not a big fan of 'creators' literally brewing-up other races in vats - I want them to be descendents. I can do this with the template and feat thing - using a baseline of fey abilities and having certain examples of fey specializing and perfecting specific abilities (the 3rd party source The Fey took this approach).
Another aspect of my fey is that they are energy - sometimes they are restricted to taking certain (small?) forms by their available energy. They use some of their energy to manifest in the physical world (hence, 'the Dwindling'). Fey that don't have an easy way to replenish their fey energy dwindle. All of this, I have worked-out.
But if all these 'fey type' creatures we have in D&D are just vestiges of a once great race, and there are a few of the 'originals' left (along the lines of what happened to the Sarrukh), then what happened to them? Why didn't they just keep breeding? I have come-up with certain theories in the past (my favorite being their migration to/creation of Faerie), but they don't explain everything, and certainly don't take into account that theoretically new Fey are born from time to time.
So any ideas on how that could work? A new (True) fey birth should be something very rare - maybe once-in-a-century, if that. What sort of circumstances would lead to that situation? Could it just be that True fey never meet - and breed - anymore? (its a big multiverse).
The simplest explanation I could come up with ties into their being energy (spirits) - they are all dead. 'Death' being a very different state in D&D then it is RW, it certainly doesn't remove a creature from play. The only problem is, that means there would NEVER be any new Fey. Is it possible to reconcile those two things? |
| Quale |
Posted - 12 Aug 2012 : 23:20:04
Ah, the sundering of the first world, I remember.
PS does have creatures with fey characteristics, but in 2e there weren't creature types. I think eladrin are the closest to the le shay, there's also asrai, mortai, lillend, fensir and possibly even sunflies, ghostlights, kamerel, dharum suhn, and immoths. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Aug 2012 : 20:17:19
Well, I was going back to my "one world, many times sundered" origins for the D&D universe. Ergo, Krynn was once part of this unified Prime Material Plane, and the Irda lived there. Once the plane was shattered into the multiverse, the Irda would have wound-up on many worlds. Thanks to evolution - both magical and natural - they would have evolved into other forms. The ones on Krynn would be the closest to the originals (in my newest theory, the leshy). Like other material-bound fey, they are no longer immortal.*
The ones on Krynn also split into various groups - the Ogres and the Minotaurs (and the ogres split into further sub-groups). The minotaurs also split, but that was more of a cultural thing, and not a 'species' thing.
If the Fey are/were natural shapeshifters (or rather, as I think, they are energy and can assume various forms), then there are many races like the Pyreen of Athas and the Reiger of SJ (I think there was a PS one as well) that may be offshoots of the Prime-bound Fey as well. Note that the only thing these beings seem to have in-common is an otherworldy quality, an air of superiority, and in most instances unnatural beauty.
Thus, most of the true Fey - the ones that were alive when the Material plane was sundered - would have either migrated to the Feywild and eventually ascended to become archfey, or have been killed-off one way or another. Very few of these should be left (like the Le'Shay). The ones that didn't do either of those things and stayed in the prime or other planes would have evolved into something else over time, but maintained some of their ancient customs and attitudes. I think the Maraloi of eastern Faerun (Kara-Tur) may have been another branch.
However, their fey heritage makes them highly susceptible to energy-fields (and things that ground energy fields, such as iron). Just as piece of iron can become magnetized by being placed within a magnetic field, these fey offshoots can become 'tainted' by local energy fields (like Faezress) and changed. This explains what happened to the Irda in Krynn - they were changed, twice (the ogres and the minotaurs).
For how we can tie this into FR lore and make it work (its a stretch), I will make another post later. I don't want to make my posts so long folks won't bother to read them.
*To be honest with you, I know next to nothing about DL myself. Most of my knowledge comes from owning all the MM's from various editions. |
| Quale |
Posted - 12 Aug 2012 : 09:56:18
Could be these Irda, I don't know anything about Dragonlance. Are they immortal like the leshay? They appear to be just from one world, why did then only primitive ogres spread to other worlds. Before I considered ogres something between giants and fey (includes fomorians, trolls, voadkyn ...), I never liked stories where gods created entire races, Vaprak in this case. Hagspawn is not a bad idea. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 19:23:09
We need more 'Fey love' in 5e.
That's not why I rezzed this scroll, though. I was going to start my own thread, and decided this one will do (and it is a good time for the WotC people to see how interested many of us are in the Fey).
I was thinking about Ogres the other day. In nearly every setting they have different origins. In Mystara they are even considered goblinoids. In some settings they are like humans with a template (very much like Hagspawn). But it is the take in Krynn/Dragonlance that interests me the most.
What if the Irda were Fey? As we know, fey can change shape and size at will (at least, when within the Feywild). Fey have many different physical descriptions, very similar to how Ogres differ from world to world. I am a fan of D&D first, and always try to get the conflicting lore from different worlds to make sense within a 'bigger picture'. Ogres bother me a lot, because they have so many origins. I always assumed that 'Ogre' was just a word in some ancient (Outsider) tongue that meant 'large brute', and it gets applied to various genus of creatures.
But what if they did all have a common origin? What if the Irda were a type of fey that linked themselves to various energy sources (similar to how earth-bound fey anchor themselves to physical locations). Suppose they had the ability to absorb and use different energy types, but the drawback is that they themselves would be 'tanted' by the energy they were drawing from. Smart Irda would try to switch things around, so as not to alter their personality and appearance over-much. But stupid, arrogant, or desperate Irda may have stuck to one energy source which altered them for all time.
I consider Giants a race native to the Feywild as well (as they well should be, given the folklore). If the Irda/fey became contaminated by dark energies and twisted, would they not be unlike the fomorians? Could the Fomorians themselves be a branch of the Irda, like how the Demonfey are a branch of the elves? And could the Irda be the Le'Shay? It would make some sense, given as both races have very few members left (Irda being the Krynn-specific word for these last few Leshy).
For my own worlds this all works fine... but I don't use any of Troy Denning's giant lore. If we had to, how would we marry the lore from his novels and Giantcraft to this theory of a 'universal ogre ancestor"? |
| Quale |
Posted - 16 Aug 2011 : 07:32:39
No prob, I also looked at the site of the project. It is a fine work, I try to talk my DM into using that ley lines rules for the campaign. I know there we will be some C cyclopean sites. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 13 Aug 2011 : 15:10:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
At Planewalker forums they posted a new fey netbook, found a few unique ideas in it. It has Ladinion. Seems there will more books some day.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~dnross/SongsOfTheSidhe1.pdf
Thanks for posting that. I'm a huge fan of all things fae, myself.
Indeed.
And I notice that this is only "Chapter 1." So I'm assuming more cool fae-stuff will be coming...
|
|
|
