| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 11:10:34
Well I guess the Spellplague just wasn't enough.
Now Wizards will have the Abyssalplague for ALL of the D&D Worlds.
I guess it will be a D&DSE.
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 05:57:50
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Just finding this scroll now... and it's also happened in the Realms (see the Castle Spulzeer FR/RL crossover adventure duology). I'm not sure that the former site of Castle Spulzeer in the Realms resembles the terrain described by The Sage, but it's the same kind of situation otherwise.
Yeah, I remember that one as well. But, as I said above, there really hasn't been any specific noted examples elsewhere in the Realmslore. But given the intimate connections between the various TSR worlds back in 2e, I'm inclined to believe that such info as published for RAVENLOFT, was largely true for the Realms as well.
|
| Jakk |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 05:18:41
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even domains forming in Ravenloft hasn't had an impact on the original worlds, other than a major NPC suddenly not being around.
Actually, that's not always entirely true. We've noted references, mostly in RAVENLOFT lore, which suggest that the removal of some of the specific regions of other worlds, often leave black, misty, and featureless voids on the origin worlds, where the removed land once existed. The removed portion of territory is, itself, then shifted into the Dread Realms, where it is shaped into a Dark Domain.
Has this ever happened to one of the published D&D settings, though?
Yes, in DRAGONLANCE... mainly focusing on the details surrounding Soth's disappearance and the impact it had upon his abode of Dargaard Keep.
RAVENLOFT lore also suggests that "misty voids" occurred in the Realms, too, just after the removal of lands and/or NPCs from Toril. Though, I don't actually recall any instance of this being mentioned directly in the Realmslore.
Just finding this scroll now... and it's also happened in the Realms (see the Castle Spulzeer FR/RL crossover adventure duology). I'm not sure that the former site of Castle Spulzeer in the Realms resembles the terrain described by The Sage, but it's the same kind of situation otherwise. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 22:15:44
Well said, MT. My thoughts nearly exactly.
And:
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If Elminster is some crazy old coot in Shadowdale who enjoys performing obscene puppet shows in the public square, then THAT IS WHAT HE IS.
Yes, and if you want to do something NOT canonical, that's fine too. 
Cheers |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 21:28:48
I was in both camps for quite some time. Coming from lore-lite Greyhawk, I was used to placing whatever I want, wherever I wanted, and it didn't really affect anything else in regards to GH canon.
With the Realms, that wasn't so easy. Toward the beginning it probably was - those 1e sourcebooks and maps are very vague - but as the setting became more detailed, folks had to start making 'hard choices'.
So as a Realms-fan, I was one of the strongest advocates of 'continuity-first!', but as DM (coming from GH), I found at times the immense amount of previous lore was a bit hand-tying. This is why I separated my Realms from the canon realms almost from the beginning, and considered it an 'alternate reality' right from the start (as ALL D&D FR campaigns are - none of them are truly 'canon'). You can run a reasonable facsimile of the canon-realms, but you can never truly run in THE canon realms (because the moment you did anything that did not appear in some sourcebook or novel, it was no longer the canon setting). The idea is that people need to realize this - that their world was never 'THE Realms' - it was an alternate reality that they were playing in, that was as similar, or as different, as the DM cared to make it (and toward the end mine was pretty damn different).
That doesn't mean we 'disrespected' the Realms - "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".
So YES, the idea that you could use 'anything, anywhere' was always there, built right into D&D (for instance, Ed's articles in Dragon that came-out long before his official setting did), but as more and more settings became available, people started forming into 'camps' (fandom can be an ebil thing, at times), which didn't do anything for the hobby.
I think what the designers tried to do with 4e is recapture that old-school approach, where nothing was 'set in stone' (Grognards be damned!), and people could just get-together for a few hours of fun... without 90% of that time spent on arguing weather they are 'playing right'.
Despite my own somewhat obsessive fanboi-ism of the Realms, I could never understand that: How people can think there is a 'wrong way' to have fun. If your DM says that Drizzt Do'Urden is frothing at the mouth and attacking you with a meat-cleaver, guess what? Thats EXACTLY how Drizzt behaves in HIS (or her) version of the Realms. If Elminster is some crazy old coot in Shadowdale who enjoys performing obscene puppet shows in the public square, then THAT IS WHAT HE IS.
RULE ZERO - learn it, live it. We have empowered Rules-lawyers and novel-nazis for far too long. Unfortunately, the setting we fell in love with had to be deconstructed to remove that wrongful approach to D&D... and most of those people didn't even play the damn game.  |
| Diffan |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 14:20:06
I've been doing what Markus is saying since I started really DM'ing back in 2005. I've never let something supposedly "setting specific" ruin any attemps to incorporate that concept into my Realms games.
I figured alot of people did this without any fuss. Why this is a strange, new concept is beyond me. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 08:59:17
Again well said Markus. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Nov 2010 : 18:41:25
I haven't, and don't intend to, but if there's one thing I learned (from Sean Connery ), its "Never say never again.".
Going back to some of the earlier conversation - I think moving toward a mind-frame of 'universal lore' is precisely what they want, and I think they may have already accomplished this to a certain degree. They've already eliminated most of the preconceptions about 'world-specific' creatures, and have been producing 'generic' dungeons, and even the fluff regarding Abeir lends itself to the 'all worlds are one' premise.
Think about it - Toril and Abeir are two worlds occupying the same space, but are "out of sync" with one another (existing at different Quantum frequencies for the SciFi-minded). This is probably true of ALL worlds, NOT just Toril and Abeir (Toril and Abeir may just be 'closer' then is normally 'allowed', like when two radio stations over-lap).
Using Spelljammer (note Rich baker specifically used this in his last novel), Planescape (we now have an FR-specific event that changed the multiverse itself), and Ravenloft (note the preeminence of 'shadowy' lore and official products/dungeons related to it) all as a springboard (and as precedents of a universal 'over-setting'), it is fairly easy to see that most of what they are now releasing is geared to the 'fit anywhere' model.
In truth, SJ and RL were mere 'posers' when it came to connecting all of D&D together - it was the cosmology of Planescape that really eliminated much of our preconceptions of 'world-specific' lore. For instance, if someone were to ask me if there were any canon connections between Graz'zt and Demogorgon, I would have to point to a LOT of Greyhawk lore... which is all viable as part of FR's 'greater cosmology'. You CANNOT dis-associate planer-lore from other settings anymore, which makes every other setting's lore, however minute, to be part of FR's greater lore ('greater' as in 'big-picture', not as in 'better). FR designers themselves went to great lengths to establish the inter-connectivity of The Realms with other worlds (because that is its built-in theme).
Which is why, I think (in retrospect), that a LOT of what they have done is leading to something even bigger then the Spellplague. By having the Cosmology (and every other local cosmology) 'snap-back' to some primordial condition (which presumably they all have), they have opened the flood-gates and created the exact situation they needed to eliminate much of our pre-conditioned notions about 'setting-specific' lore & rules. What applies to one world regarding 'the planes' is true for every other world now; the same Shadowkeep can be reached from Faerūn, or Greyhawk, or even Krynn.
The real D&D setting now is NOT a world, but rather the cosmology itself. In much the same way that Michael Moorcock's cosmology runs through all his novels (weather it is important to the story or merely 'backdrop'), and all of his characters - REGARDLESS OF WORLD - can meet each-other and interact, the same can now be said for D&D.
We no longer have to to figure out where FR Warforged come from - if a DM so chooses, he needn't do anything at all and just say that the character in question came from Eberron... because its just easier that way. This goes for just about anything else as well.
The funny thing is, this state of affairs was ALWAYS the case in FR, more-so then any other official setting - Ed designed it to allow for stuff from anywhere to make an appearance.
Which is precisely why FR was chosen as the 'flagship' setting of 4e - it was already set-up in the way they want all official settings to be perceived; as just 'local pockets' of a MUCH larger setting.
There is no 'FR' or 'GH' or 'DL' anymore - there is only 'D&D'. Choosing FR over Eberron now is like choosing to run your campaign in The North, rather then the Inner Sea lands - you can still get to "the other places" later if you so choose (which was always possible, but they are pushing this concept now).
Disclaimer EDIT: All conjecture and IMHO, of course. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 11:57:32
Actually, this reminds me. Have any of my fellow scribes been reading the "Abyssalplague" prelude? I'm waiting until the release of the fifth part with the Lady Ruin novel next month... but I'm curious about opinions on the story itself. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 10:58:26
Maybe it's safest to just stick with minimist 0E campaigns; the map of the entire world only having "Town" and "Dungeon" (and the encounter-frought road between) ... oho, maybe not ... even this setting will be affected by the plague. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 19 Aug 2010 : 03:59:11
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've come up with three different versions of Realms-based warforged, myself. One is quite grounded in existing lore, one is somewhat grounded in existing lore, and the other is basically stretching existing lore for all it's worth without breaking it.
See!! That's pretty awesome if you ask me. I've use very little in the way of Lore (I know Gond touched down on Lantan and he imparted some knowledge) but I went with a whole different angle and kept the race mostly alive during the Spellplague (which, sadly, wiped out the island of Trident).
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Aug 2010 : 01:17:27
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
Bah, when you start bleeding them all together, they lose their individual identites. Dragonlance was already suffering in the uniqueness department and then WotC went and pilfered their one original idea, dragon men.
That depends on why and how you use them in you own campaign setting. I had the Warforged enter the Realms during the ToT when Gond came to Lantan. He imparted his knowledge of gunnpowder and how to creat "life-forges" so the Lantanese people made Gondsmen for general purposes and slave labor. But some of the Gondsmen gained sentience (how it still debated) and realized they were being used as slaves and revolted in 1379 DR. They left the island and traveled over and underwater to a remote island they called Trident (named so for the mountain range it island has with 3 pointed ridges).
There, they survived until 1384 DR when a sorceress named The Simbul offered them a new life and home far away from the Lantanese people (who wanted them returned) as defenders of the nation of Anglarond.
So, thats just one example how a DM can taking something "not FR" and turn it into an intriguing idea without losing any individual identites.
I've come up with three different versions of Realms-based warforged, myself. One is quite grounded in existing lore, one is somewhat grounded in existing lore, and the other is basically stretching existing lore for all it's worth without breaking it. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 18 Aug 2010 : 15:01:17
quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
Bah, when you start bleeding them all together, they lose their individual identites. Dragonlance was already suffering in the uniqueness department and then WotC went and pilfered their one original idea, dragon men.
That depends on why and how you use them in you own campaign setting. I had the Warforged enter the Realms during the ToT when Gond came to Lantan. He imparted his knowledge of gunnpowder and how to creat "life-forges" so the Lantanese people made Gondsmen for general purposes and slave labor. But some of the Gondsmen gained sentience (how it still debated) and realized they were being used as slaves and revolted in 1379 DR. They left the island and traveled over and underwater to a remote island they called Trident (named so for the mountain range it island has with 3 pointed ridges).
There, they survived until 1384 DR when a sorceress named The Simbul offered them a new life and home far away from the Lantanese people (who wanted them returned) as defenders of the nation of Anglarond.
So, thats just one example how a DM can taking something "not FR" and turn it into an intriguing idea without losing any individual identites. |
| Gambit |
Posted - 18 Aug 2010 : 04:16:47
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Well that and the fact that the rule of "rules spanning all worlds" isn't so much a rule but a concept to lessen any sort of Restriction a DM might feel in a specific campaign setting. For example Artificers and Warforged in the Realms or Morninglords in Dark Sun. If I read through my FRCG/FRPG I don't see any Warforged or Artificer entries or anything that could link the two. It's not restricted, but it's not presented either.
It's just a way for WotC to have their DMs and Players utilize more books in the edition. I use both Artificers AND Warforged AND Changelins AND PH3 races in my Realms with no huff.
Bah, when you start bleeding them all together, they lose their individual identites. Dragonlance was already suffering in the uniqueness department and then WotC went and pilfered their one original idea, dragon men. |
| Gambit |
Posted - 18 Aug 2010 : 04:11:50
quote:
Originally posted by The SageThat would be a fairly complicated undertaking, and not something I could ever seeing Wizards attempting. There's simply too much variation between most of the core aspects of each world, for this to work successfully.
Like I said good Sage, I highly doubt it myself, I cant help but think though that WotC would rather have only one setting that they had to "deal with", rather than a plethora. Not that I guess it personally matters for me, as WotC, with the exception of a couple of novels, hasnt gotten any of my money since they shut down Star Wars Saga Edition, go go Paizo power. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 18 Aug 2010 : 03:11:54
Well that and the fact that the rule of "rules spanning all worlds" isn't so much a rule but a concept to lessen any sort of Restriction a DM might feel in a specific campaign setting. For example Artificers and Warforged in the Realms or Morninglords in Dark Sun. If I read through my FRCG/FRPG I don't see any Warforged or Artificer entries or anything that could link the two. It's not restricted, but it's not presented either.
It's just a way for WotC to have their DMs and Players utilize more books in the edition. I use both Artificers AND Warforged AND Changelins AND PH3 races in my Realms with no huff. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 18 Aug 2010 : 01:46:28
quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
What if this is just a way for WotC to put and end to individual campaign settings, and after all is said and done there is no Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk or Eberron, but rather a "Dungeons and Dragons world" which all the settings are rooted in.
Some could say this is already the case with 4E with thier "rules span all worlds" approach, but I mean this in a tangible way rather than a philosophical one, meaning that Faerun, Krynn, Khorvaire, ect, are all on the same planet or are somehow inexorably linked.
That would be a fairly complicated undertaking, and not something I could ever seeing Wizards attempting. There's simply too much variation between most of the core aspects of each world, for this to work successfully. |
| Gambit |
Posted - 17 Aug 2010 : 22:40:12
I doubt this is the case, but it is a point worth discussing just for posterities sake.
What if this is just a way for WotC to put and end to individual campaign settings, and after all is said and done there is no Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk or Eberron, but rather a "Dungeons and Dragons world" which all the settings are rooted in.
Some could say this is already the case with 4E with thier "rules span all worlds" approach, but I mean this in a tangible way rather than a philosophical one, meaning that Faerun, Krynn, Khorvaire, ect, are all on the same planet or are somehow inexorably linked.
Not to say what needs not be spoken, but this would be a horrible outcome for all involved (and by that I mean fans of the individual settings). |
| Diffan |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 17:42:33
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
[quote]
Ah. Reading your post, I thought you were contrasting the first two with the second two, where instead you were contrasting each pair instead. My mistake!
It's cool, I should've paired the two better to make my point, but yea, I hope I don't see that stuff cuz it'll just be too comic book-ish as Wooly stated earlier. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 15:37:50
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
A small point: Since Rich Baker's Swordmage is set in the Realms, that part shouldn't be terribly surprising. 
The swordmage class appeared in the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide and (I think) specifically created for Realms characters to show that the style of blade-magic (and Bladesingers) were first and foremost Forgotten Realms. Much as the Artificer appeared in the Eberron Player's Guide and is EB's baby. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 13:32:38
Well I hope that this isn't an RSE and I hope they spill some more info about what/who causes the Abyssalplague. The fact that it happens across the multi-verse isn't a problem for me, in fact, it's probably a way for WotC to explain Warforged in Dark Sun, lol.
But I'm still not going to jump the gun to say this is a compelte cross-over until I see some Faerunian Purple Dragon knight and a paladin of the Silver Flame fighting alongside Artificers and Swordmages for the greater good of the cosmos (well maybe if it happened in Sigil).
And yes, I see your point Wooly. An event like this has never happend in the history of D&D and it is very strange. However, my point is that cross-overs aren't unheard of in the Realms and I'm not even that suprised that WotC would try something like this. Whether it's a good idea or not remains to be seen but I'm hoping for the best here.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 04:06:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even domains forming in Ravenloft hasn't had an impact on the original worlds, other than a major NPC suddenly not being around.
Actually, that's not always entirely true. We've noted references, mostly in RAVENLOFT lore, which suggest that the removal of some of the specific regions of other worlds, often leave black, misty, and featureless voids on the origin worlds, where the removed land once existed. The removed portion of territory is, itself, then shifted into the Dread Realms, where it is shaped into a Dark Domain.
Has this ever happened to one of the published D&D settings, though?
Yes, in DRAGONLANCE... mainly focusing on the details surrounding Soth's disappearance and the impact it had upon his abode of Dargaard Keep.
RAVENLOFT lore also suggests that "misty voids" occurred in the Realms, too, just after the removal of lands and/or NPCs from Toril. Though, I don't actually recall any instance of this being mentioned directly in the Realmslore. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 03:34:47
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even domains forming in Ravenloft hasn't had an impact on the original worlds, other than a major NPC suddenly not being around.
Actually, that's not always entirely true. We've noted references, mostly in RAVENLOFT lore, which suggest that the removal of some of the specific regions of other worlds, often leave black, misty, and featureless voids on the origin worlds, where the removed land once existed. The removed portion of territory is, itself, then shifted into the Dread Realms, where it is shaped into a Dark Domain.
Has this ever happened to one of the published D&D settings, though? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 01:56:57
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even domains forming in Ravenloft hasn't had an impact on the original worlds, other than a major NPC suddenly not being around.
Actually, that's not always entirely true. We've noted references, mostly in RAVENLOFT lore, which suggest that the removal of some of the specific regions of other worlds, often leave black, misty, and featureless voids on the origin worlds, where the removed land once existed. The removed portion of territory is, itself, then shifted into the Dread Realms, where it is shaped into a Dark Domain.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 01:51:27
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
*ahem* Eberron and Dark Sun have been isolated from other settings for most of their existence. Yes, the Realms have links to other worlds and planes, because that's what the portals are there for.
Yet I think (I don't have the book in front of me) that Eberron has a link to the Abyss which does span the multi-verse and thus an Abyssalplague could happen if some entity was able to rip a hole into the prime material plane(s). But until we know how this happens and by what means, it's unsure as to how everything will connect. Possibly a hodge-podge group of heroes from various settings (and thus full-filling Wooly's idea that its a cross-over) come to defeat this problem. Until we know more, all is just speculation.
Not all of EBERRON's outer planes are direct setting-specific translations of the D&D core outer planes. There have been some connections speculated about between the core cosmology and the planar framework of EBERRON, but not really all that much in the official lore. And the basis of the deities and their relationships with their homes planes, also, is something that is very different in EBERRON, when compared to their counterparts in the core D&D mythology.
I've a slight theory that hints at the possibility that the plane of Xoriat is a manifested portion of the core D&D Far Realm in the EBERRON cosmology. But that's as far as I have gone, thus far, in terms of connecting EBERRON with other portions of the D&D multiverse. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 01:23:23
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yeah, but the thing is that other than tiny little bits of lore here and there (mainly featuring planes-hopping NPCs, like Khelben Ravenscloak Arunsun going to Oerth), there has never been a single event that affected more than one campaign setting. So since this is supposed to be a "worlds-spanning event" (their own words!) that involves multiple worlds -- of which none of them have ever had a connection to any of the others -- then yeah, that makes it a crossover.
True, no 1 specific event has taken place that effects multipul worlds (though Gods OTOH might considering Lloth/Lolth is in both Greyhawk and Faerun and I wonder how there came to be Drow in both) but the worlds have been linked through many different means such as Spelljamming, plane-shifting spells/portals, and even the Deities interactions (again, Lloth in Evermeet: Island of Elves for example) plus the city of Sigil has been a connector to most of the worlds. So while the Abysalplague is a new event that is world-spanning, there are still canon examples that Faerun is tied to other worlds and thus a world-spanning event isn't all that far fetched.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I may not be invested in the 4E Realms, but that also doesn't mean that I want to see the setting stray ever further from what it once was.
From the examples above, I don't see how this is straying from the Faerun we've seen before. Lets see, there was at least 1 Kender on Faerun from the city Sigil, there were elves from the Elven Navy from some Spelljammer ships, cross-overs (as you like to call them) from mages of Oerth, the entirety of Ravenloft and it's connections to the various worlds and the characters therein which all pre-date most of 3rd edition, all of 4th edition, and are canon when it comes to the Realms.
Again, cross-overs are nothing us Realms fans haven't seen before, but I do hope this isn't another big RSE and if it is, well I probably will just ignore it as I've done with the parts of the Realms that disinterest me.
You're not seeing my point, though. Even though most of the campaign worlds have had major events, these events have never affected any of the other settings. Even domains forming in Ravenloft hasn't had an impact on the original worlds, other than a major NPC suddenly not being around.
Even though planar travel and/or spelljamming has been available for going from world to world, there still haven't been any effects on the worlds from this travel. A single kender wandering around the Realms hasn't caused anything in the Realms to change. The Time of Troubles had no impact on Krynn. The Cataclysm didn't touch Oerth. The betrayal of the Circle of Eight didn't impact Athas. The death of a sorcerer-king didn't affect the Realms. And so on. Even with worlds where easy travel between worlds was possible -- and Dark Sun does not fall into that category -- the worlds were still, for all intents and purposes, isolated from each other.
Not only that, but Eber-whatsit has a wholly unique cosmology. Granted, I'm no student of lore of that setting, but I'm pretty sure it's cosmology pretty much prevents any connections to other D&D campaign settings.
So this is a cross-over unlike anything we've seen before. And from the info we've seen thus far, it strikes me as a souped-up RSE. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 22:22:51
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
*ahem* Eberron and Dark Sun have been isolated from other settings for most of their existence. Yes, the Realms have links to other worlds and planes, because that's what the portals are there for.
Yet I think (I don't have the book in front of me) that Eberron has a link to the Abyss which does span the multi-verse and thus an Abyssalplague could happen if some entity was able to rip a hole into the prime material plane(s). But until we know how this happens and by what means, it's unsure as to how everything will connect. Possibly a hodge-podge group of heroes from various settings (and thus full-filling Wooly's idea that its a cross-over) come to defeat this problem. Until we know more, all is just speculation.
And I can't comment on Dark Sun, having never played the edition and having absoutley no idea what the setting is about other than there are no deities. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 21:56:40
*ahem* Eberron and Dark Sun have been isolated from other settings for most of their existence. Yes, the Realms have links to other worlds and planes, because that's what the portals are there for. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 21:51:05
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yeah, but the thing is that other than tiny little bits of lore here and there (mainly featuring planes-hopping NPCs, like Khelben Ravenscloak Arunsun going to Oerth), there has never been a single event that affected more than one campaign setting. So since this is supposed to be a "worlds-spanning event" (their own words!) that involves multiple worlds -- of which none of them have ever had a connection to any of the others -- then yeah, that makes it a crossover.
True, no 1 specific event has taken place that effects multipul worlds (though Gods OTOH might considering Lloth/Lolth is in both Greyhawk and Faerun and I wonder how there came to be Drow in both) but the worlds have been linked through many different means such as Spelljamming, plane-shifting spells/portals, and even the Deities interactions (again, Lloth in Evermeet: Island of Elves for example) plus the city of Sigil has been a connector to most of the worlds. So while the Abysalplague is a new event that is world-spanning, there are still canon examples that Faerun is tied to other worlds and thus a world-spanning event isn't all that far fetched.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I may not be invested in the 4E Realms, but that also doesn't mean that I want to see the setting stray ever further from what it once was.
From the examples above, I don't see how this is straying from the Faerun we've seen before. Lets see, there was at least 1 Kender on Faerun from the city Sigil, there were elves from the Elven Navy from some Spelljammer ships, cross-overs (as you like to call them) from mages of Oerth, the entirety of Ravenloft and it's connections to the various worlds and the characters therein which all pre-date most of 3rd edition, all of 4th edition, and are canon when it comes to the Realms.
Again, cross-overs are nothing us Realms fans haven't seen before, but I do hope this isn't another big RSE and if it is, well I probably will just ignore it as I've done with the parts of the Realms that disinterest me. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 21:08:10
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Considering that the Abyss is an over-arching plane that exists in most, if not all, of D&D's settings I don't see it as a cross-over at all. Actually, if a Demon, Demi-god, or some other sort of Immortal creature were to rupture the fabric that separates that plane from the prime Material plane then yes, I could easily see how it would affect each setting simultaneously(sp?).
As far as WotC's business end is concerned, I've been a happy customer for over the past decade when they got it from TSR but that doesn't really prove anything. But that's pretty much my point, unless someone has distinctive numbers as to WotC sales and profit/debt then it's anyones guess as to how their doing. IMO, I think they're doing fine in that department.
And I'm not saying that someone can't be upset that WotC is doing this Abyssalplague (and that it's happening in the Realms to boot) but I don't see why someone gets mad because, as Wooly put it, they're not invested in the current Realms. Obviously the current happenings aren't really important to someone who A. Doesn't utilize the current timeline, and/or B. doesn't believe that the current state of affairs in the Realms are canon. I'd just assume those indivduals (not naming name and not calling anyone specifically out here) would write it off as more shenanigans and pay little heed to what's going on.
Yeah, but the thing is that other than tiny little bits of lore here and there (mainly featuring planes-hopping NPCs, like Khelben Ravenscloak Arunsun going to Oerth), there has never been a single event that affected more than one campaign setting. So since this is supposed to be a "worlds-spanning event" (their own words!) that involves multiple worlds -- of which none of them have ever had a connection to any of the others -- then yeah, that makes it a crossover.
I may not be invested in the 4E Realms, but that also doesn't mean that I want to see the setting stray ever further from what it once was. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 19:10:09
Considering that the Abyss is an over-arching plane that exists in most, if not all, of D&D's settings I don't see it as a cross-over at all. Actually, if a Demon, Demi-god, or some other sort of Immortal creature were to rupture the fabric that separates that plane from the prime Material plane then yes, I could easily see how it would affect each setting simultaneously(sp?).
As far as WotC's business end is concerned, I've been a happy customer for over the past decade when they got it from TSR but that doesn't really prove anything. But that's pretty much my point, unless someone has distinctive numbers as to WotC sales and profit/debt then it's anyones guess as to how their doing. IMO, I think they're doing fine in that department.
And I'm not saying that someone can't be upset that WotC is doing this Abyssalplague (and that it's happening in the Realms to boot) but I don't see why someone gets mad because, as Wooly put it, they're not invested in the current Realms. Obviously the current happenings aren't really important to someone who A. Doesn't utilize the current timeline, and/or B. doesn't believe that the current state of affairs in the Realms are canon. I'd just assume those indivduals (not naming name and not calling anyone specifically out here) would write it off as more shenanigans and pay little heed to what's going on. |
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