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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Bookwyrm Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 07:26:36
Mystra I, after being reborn from Mystryl, forbade any spells over 9th level. Does this mean that epic spells, from the Epic Level Handbook, are out if you're an acrane spellcaster?

As well, should that cover metamagicked spells that rise over 9th level? After all, if an arcane spellcaster has a spellcasting ability bonus of 10 or more, (s)he gets a bonus spell slot or slots greater than 9th level, but would those be forbidden by Mystra I and II?

And here's the interesting question: if all that is true, then would Shar have the same restictions on her weave?
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
cpthero2 Posted - 14 Feb 2020 : 20:55:06
Master Rupert,

Thank you for the ideas!

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Hello all,

I'm uncertain if Master Shadowlord is still active, but I was hoping if he isn't, if others had insight to my question?


According to the Members page, he's not been here since 2007.

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Is the Shadow Weave still an acceptable access point for using epic level (Netherese spells) spells over 9th level?



Personally, I'd not allow the Shadow Weave to do epic spells. The Shadow Weave is a lesser version of the Weave. We know for a fact it can't do everything the Weave can do, so it makes sense to cap its top-end power level, as well. (I'd be inclined to go a step further, and block some 9th-level spells, too)

That said, I'm not aware of an official yea or nay on that -- and since the designers never could decide what to do with the Shadow Weave, we may actually have both a yea and a nay recorded somewhere.

Wooly Rupert Posted - 11 Feb 2020 : 19:53:13
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Hello all,

I'm uncertain if Master Shadowlord is still active, but I was hoping if he isn't, if others had insight to my question?


According to the Members page, he's not been here since 2007.

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Is the Shadow Weave still an acceptable access point for using epic level (Netherese spells) spells over 9th level?



Personally, I'd not allow the Shadow Weave to do epic spells. The Shadow Weave is a lesser version of the Weave. We know for a fact it can't do everything the Weave can do, so it makes sense to cap its top-end power level, as well. (I'd be inclined to go a step further, and block some 9th-level spells, too)

That said, I'm not aware of an official yea or nay on that -- and since the designers never could decide what to do with the Shadow Weave, we may actually have both a yea and a nay recorded somewhere.
cpthero2 Posted - 11 Feb 2020 : 19:19:16
Hello all,

I'm uncertain if Master Shadowlord is still active, but I was hoping if he isn't, if others had insight to my question?

Is the Shadow Weave still an acceptable access point for using epic level (Netherese spells) spells over 9th level?

Thank you in advance!


cpthero2 Posted - 29 Sep 2018 : 20:14:10
Master Shadowlord,

I believe (thought perhaps it has changed in 5th edition, which I have not yet read), that on page 58 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3rd Edition), that the Shadow Weave is commensurate with all Weave based magic, withstanding light based affects. I believe the Shadow Weave is still good to go, correct? If so, you could get access there, if so.

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by Shadowlord

These spells are what could be considered epic, though they wouldn't work in the present realms, what with the sundering of the Weave and all. They are 10th, 11th, and 12th level spells which, if mages had access to today, could jeopardize the safety of all Toril!

Wooly Rupert Posted - 04 May 2004 : 07:00:39
quote:
Originally posted by The Simbul

The Simbul has the Epic Spellcasting Feat, and a version of Proctiv's Move Mountain (from the Player's Guide to Faerun) without the x5 permanent duration factor would be within her grasp. (an updated version of the Simbul to the 3.5 rules could have all of her no-longer-existant Scry skill ranks dumped into maxing out Spellcraft instead).


Ah, The Simbul has joined us! Welcome! You're one of the few I missed from the WotC forums!
The Simbul Posted - 04 May 2004 : 05:11:31
The Simbul has the Epic Spellcasting Feat, and a version of Proctiv's Move Mountain (from the Player's Guide to Faerun) without the x5 permanent duration factor would be within her grasp. (an updated version of the Simbul to the 3.5 rules could have all of her no-longer-existant Scry skill ranks dumped into maxing out Spellcraft instead).
Master of Puppets Posted - 12 Feb 2004 : 21:04:07
It was probably something similar, though I can't say for sure that it was the same spell. Something like that could only be done with Epic Magic, and the best source for that is the ancient Netherese spells.
DDH_101 Posted - 12 Feb 2004 : 00:56:08
Wow... those are some powerful spells, especially the spellshift one. Master of Puppets, do you know if Proctiv's Move Mountain was the spell that the Simbul used in Avernus to bring the mountain to crush the devils?
Master of Puppets Posted - 11 Feb 2004 : 19:01:45
On the topic of Epic Spell/Netherese spells, here are some conversions of 10th+ spells to Epic Spells:

Lefeber's Weave Mythal
Abjuration
Spellcraft DC: 80
Components: V,S,M,XP
Casting Time: 3 days, 11 minutes
Range: Touch
Area: 1000 foot radius
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: none
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: Seed: Ward (DC 14). Factors: Change area to 20 foot radius(+2 DC), Increase size to 1000 feet (+200 DC), Add 5 of any spell effects up to 6th level (+60 DC), Permanent (x5 DC). Mitigating factors: Burn 25,000 XP (-250 DC), 50d6 backlash damage (-50 DC), Increase casting time to 3 days 11 minutes (-26 DC), Artifact to focus spell on (ad hoc -1000 DC).

This spell creates an invisible sphere of magical force that has several effects. First, it prevents anyone and anything from entering unless they have/know the "key" that is desiganted by the caster at the time of casting, or allowed by the caster. This can be anything, a song, a password, a special item, a rune, ect. Also, the caster can attach 5 different spell effects of any spell he/she knows up to 6th level. Example: The caster could attach a Chain Lighting spell the strikes anyone who trys to enter that doesnt know/have the key. Or the caster could attach a flying spell inside that activates on the spoken word of "fly" or any trigger.
This was a 10th level Netherese spell in 2e.

I really had to stretch it to get this one to work... alternatively you could make each casting unique and add +2 DC (before the x5 for permanent)for each level of the spell effect to add, this can reduce the DC quite a bit if you only use lower level spells like fireball, magic missile, ect. I got the idea of a Artifact for focus from The Sorcerer, where Everaska's mythal is focused on the ancient statue of an elven god, that's the only way I could get the DC down to an acceptible level. Of course any of these can be brought down to castable level by using extra casters instead/also.

Mavin's Create Volcano
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 69
Components: V,S,M,XP
Casting Time: 1 day, 11 minutes
Range: 15,000 feet
Area: 2,000 foot cone
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 621,000 gp, 13 days, 24,840 XP. Seed: Transform (DC 21). Factors: Change target to 40 foot cone (+10 DC), Increase area to 2,000 foot cone (+200 DC), Increase range to 15,000 feet (+100 DC). Mitigating factors: Burn 10,000 XP (-100 DC), Increase casting time to 1 day, 11 minutes (-22 DC), Expensive and rare components (ad hoc -50), 40d6 backlash damage (-40 DC), Very long time to manifest (ad hoc -50).

This spell does just what it sounds like, creates a volcano. As soon as it is cast it creates a minor earthquake in the area. Within a week, ash and steam will be pouring through the earth, and within a month, a full 2,000 foot active, erupting volcano will be in the target area. This volcano is slightly below average size by volcano standards, but as it constantly erupts, it will grow even larger on it's own lava. The volcano will only stay active for as many years as the caster has levels unless a Mythallar is placed in the center before the volcano has passed it's first year.
Material Components: A mantle of sewn diamonds that is enchanted as per a Ring of Elemental Immunity(fire), and a Helm of Brilliance, which are consumed upon casting. A Mythallar is optional. (see text above)
This was a 10th level Netherese spell in 2e.

Mavin's WorldWeave
Evocation [Weather]
Spellcraft DC: 95
Components: V,S,XP
Casting Time: 11 minutes
Range: Centered on Caster
Area: 50 mile radius
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: none
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 855,000 gp; 18 days; 34,200 XP. Seed: Energy[weather] (DC 25). Factor: Increase radius to 50 miles (+50 DC), Permanent (x5 DC). Mitigating Factors: Increase casting time by 11 minutes (-20 DC), Burn 20,000 XP (-200 DC), 60d6 backlash damage (-60 DC)

This spell permanently changes the weather in a 50 mile radius area by one step. The "steps" are as follows: Arctic, Sub-Arctic, Temperate, Sub-Tropic, Tropic. For rainfall and moisture, the "steps" are as follows: Desert(Anauroch), Arid(the Shaar), Moderate(the Dales), Wet(Tethyr), Rainforest(jungles of Chult).
Example: Mavin the arcanist casts this spell in the sub-arctic of northern Icewind Dale. With one casting, he can change the climate to either arctic(like the Great Glaicer), or to temperate(like the Dales), but not any further. The caster can also change the level of moisture one level at the same time, so an area with average rainfall like the Dales could be changed to a dry, near-desert climate like the Shaar, or a rainforest like Chult could become a above average deciduous forest like Tethyr. (likely killing off most of the rainforest trees)
This was a 11th level Netherese spell in 2e.

Proctiv's Move Mountain
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 52
Components: V,S,M,XP
Casting Time: 2 hours
Range: 12,000 feet
Target: One mountain top
Duration: 340 hours
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 468,000 gp, 10 days, 18,720 XP. Seed: Fly (DC 19), Destroy (DC 29). Factors: Increase duration to 340 hours (+34 DC), Targeting an object instead of a creature (+10 DC), Colossal+ size object (+10 DC). Mitigating factors: Increase casting time to 2 hours (-20 DC), Expensive material components (-20 DC), Burn 1,000 XP (-10 DC).

This spell was vital in the construction of enclaves. Without this spell there was no simple way for severed mountains to be turned over and set afloat above the landscape.
When this spell was cast the archwizard simply viewed the mountain he wanted to affect and the mountain was severed from the earth leaving a flat mesa behind. The mountain was then turned over so the flat side was up and the move mountain spell allowed this structure to levitate. Once this was accomplished the archwizard could begin constructing a city on its’ smooth surface.
This allowed the city to float for roughly 2 weeks on the spells own power, so unless either a specially prepared Lefeber's Weave Mythal spell or a Mythallar was placed in/on the mountain before that time was up, the mountain will fall back to earth.
Material components: A magic item that allows constant flying, such as a Flying Carpet, and a Crystal Ball. A Mythallar is optional. (see text above)
This was originally a 10th level Netherese spell.

Seed: Fly
Spellcraft DC: 19
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 20 hours
Saving throw: Will negates (if the creature chooses to resist)
Spell Resistance: Yes (if the creature chooses to resist)

You grant a creature the ability to fly at a rate of 90 feet. The size of the creature affects the DC. A creature of Medium or smaller does not change the DC, a Large creature changes the DC by +2, a Huge creature changes it by +4, a Gargantuan creature changes it by +6, a Colossal creature changes it by +8, and a Colossal+ creature changes it by +10. You can also make any object fly at the same rate, but it adds +10 to the DC and it must use the appropriate size modifier.

The Srinshee's SpellShift
Abjuration, Divination, Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 88
Components: V,S,XP
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 600 feet
Area: 10 foot radius
Duration: 20 minutes
Saving Throw: none
Spell Resistance: Yes (see text)
To Develop: 792,000 gp; 16 days; 31,680 XP. Seed: Ward(DC 14), Dispel (DC 19), Reveal (DC 25), Transform (DC 21), Fortify (DC 17). Factors: Ward spells up to 9th level (+180 DC), Tranforming incorpoeal/ethereal objects (+10 DC), 1 action casting time (+20 DC), Increase range to 600 feet (+2 DC) . Mitigating factors: Burn 22,000 XP (-220 DC).

This spell cloaks the caster in an immobile faintly shimmering sphere of magic. It allows the caster to view the Weave in all it's glory, using the sphere as a lens through which the Weave is viewed. It prevents any spell of 9th level or less from entering. It allows the caster to modify the Weave to achive one the following effects on one target per round: Aid ; Any spell forming or exsisting within range can be modified to include one of the following metamagic effects, Empower spell, Extend spell, Heighten spell, Widen spell. This only works on arcane spells. Cancel ; Any spell within range of 10th level or less can be cancelled before it forms. This works like a automatic counterspell. Deaden ; This places a 5' radius dead magic area around a target creature or spot that remains for one round. All magic and magic items fail in this area. Manipulate ; This allows the caster to reshape a concurrently forming spell, either changing it's area of effect up to 75%(changing a fireball to only 5' radius blast) or range, making the fireball explode on the original caster or making it go in the opposite direction. Wild ; This can cause a 10' radius globe of wild magic anywhere in the spells range, and lasts for one round.
The caster doesn't have to be the focus for the spell, it can be cast on anyone the caster wishes, however only arcane spellcasters can use the modification effects of the spell, others will only benefit from the spell-blocking abilities.

Tolodine's Killing Wind
Necromancy, Conjuration (Creation) [Death]
Spellcraft DC: 74
Components: V,S,XP
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 300ft.
Area: 2500 foot radius
Duration: 24 hours
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: 666,000 gp; 14 days; 26,640 XP. Seed: Slay (DC 25), Conjure (DC 21). Factors: Casting time 1 action (+20 DC), Increase duration to 24 hours (+4 DC), Increase area to 2500 feet (+500 DC). Mitigating factors: Burn 40,000 XP (-400 DC), Chance of being stucked into negative energy plane (ad hoc -100).

Upon casting this spell, black, choking vapors billow out from the caster at blinding speed. Any living thing caught in the spell area must make a fortitude save or die instantly. After that, they must make a fortitude save every round while caught in the spell area or die. When the caster casts this spell, there is a 5% chance that the caster would be pulled into the negative energy plane, and destroyed forever. If the caster is undead they have a 25% chance of being sucked to the negative energy plane, but they are instead trapped there until they can find a way to leave.
This was a 10th level Netherese spell in 2e.
Dracandos the Spellsage Posted - 03 Feb 2004 : 23:02:31
lol we all do Shadowlord
Shadowlord Posted - 03 Feb 2004 : 22:04:28
quote:
Originally posted by EcThelion

OFCOURSE ha HAD to pick her. *tsk*tsk*tsk*
So that's the reason I can't cast level 10+ spells.

Thanks, Shadowlord. Your overwhelming knowledge of really useless things never ceases to amuse me. (Just kidding. I wish I knew all the stuff you know about AD&D & FR)


I'm glad SOMEONE around here appretiates my contributions........
Dracandos the Spellsage Posted - 03 Feb 2004 : 21:55:58
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101

Hmm...interesting. Anyways, I recently re-installed BG2 and ToB and there is a 10th level spell called "Comet". Shouldn't a comet spell be banned from Faerun like the other ones you mentioned since flaming rocks from space aren't exactly good for you? Lol. Or is it because it's a video game and they just let you have powerful spells?


there r many 10th lv spells in BG2 with ToB installed. including Dragon's Breath, Aura of Flaming Death(priest spell) ect. wicked bad spells, n yeah just cuz its a game
Edain Shadowstar Posted - 02 Feb 2004 : 01:25:06
I knwo the feeling Sage, up until just before they released 3.5 Edition I could not get my group to change to Third Edition (I can understand why, Second Edition was so clearly superior. ), of course then 3.5 Edition came along, and they were just like, "See, this is what happens when you mess with a good thing." For some reason I think player get really attached to their Editions, mainly because after a while you get really good with teh mechanics; I myself am a glutton for punishment, which I why I liked Third Edition.
The Sage Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 03:11:50
quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar

Sage, while I can see how that spell could be abused, i think fi ti is the DM needs to read the spell again. It works a lot like a Wish spell, in that the player has only finite control over what they create. Say a play wants to create a "magic sward", a magic sword that magically sings could be the DM choice in weapon, since the player has no control over the magical properties. While adding a Rule Zero addition could be useful to dissuage players, I can see a player who tries to abuse the spell very easily being put in their place.

Yes, that's an interesting point, and one which I will definitely take under advisement. You see, I still have one 2e game still running, just for those players who refuse to accept 3e rules...
EcThelion Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 02:29:17
OFCOURSE ha HAD to pick her. *tsk*tsk*tsk*
So that's the reason I can't cast level 10+ spells.

Thanks, Shadowlord. You overwhelming knowlege of realyl useless things never seaces to amuse me. (Just kidding. I wish I knew all the stuff you know about AD&D & FR)
Shadowlord Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 02:20:36
The "Karsus Incident"

Karsus, feeling the responsibility for Netheril’s future on his shoulders, felt that it was his duty to weld the nation back together. He fmished a spell that he’d been working on for years and then cast it upon himself. This spell, called Karsus’s avatar, was the only 12th-level spell ever created. It was designed to temporarily steal the powers of a deity. When he cast the spell, he chose Mystryl, the goddess of magic, in the process changing forever the way magic functions. Knowledge has always outweighed wisdom, and Karsus was no exception. His body swelled with the sudden influx of godly power, and his mind filled with unimaginable knowledge. Karsus instantly realized the horrible mistake he had made: He stole the power from the one goddess he shouldn’t have. Mystryl’s position called for one of the aspects of her psyche to constantly rework the weave of magic—the weave that Netheril and its glut of magic and the phaerimm with their magic drain spells constantly threatened to
unravel. When Mystryl lost her ability to keep the weave of essential magic (magic in its purest unschooled and unfielded form)intact, the inundation of magic surged and fluctuated, and the effects of all things magical doubled for a time—a short time. Mystryl sacrificed herself to save the weave before the damage became irreparable. This broke Karsus’s link to her magic and obstructed the weave, causing all magic to briefly cease functioning. Without the infusion of magic, the floating cities of Netheril fell, and Karsus was instantly slain. His bloated body petrified and toppled from the high plateau above his floating city and plummeted to earth. As his body fell, his stony eyes, still shimmering with the last glint of godly omniscience, caught a glimpse of the cities of Netheril smashing to the ground, killing all their inhabitants. His heart broke—greed for the power of the deities themselves caused the destruction of his home, his family,his friends, and his people.
When Mystryl reincarnated herself—this time as Mystra—she used the form of a beautiful peasant girl learning the basics of cantra magic but with the capacities for archwizardry. Her first priority was to recreate the weave of magic. This time, she made magic follow a few more rules, and no spell above 10th level would function. By the time she was completed, she was able to save only three of Netheril’s floating cities; the rest were utterly destroyed. These three—Anauria, Asram, and Hlondath—were high enough above the ground to survive. The cities safely landed, and the survivors stumbled away from the cities in shock. Priests and priestesses of the new goddess of magic were told the story of Karsus in dreams and visions when they prayed for spells. It was Mystra’s attempt to make sure that nothing like this ever happened again. Yet Karsus was accredited as being the only human to have ever achieved godhood through spellcasting, even if was only for a fleeting moment.
Within a few short months, the inhabitants of the surviving
three cities left, fearful of the phaerimm, the gods, and the orcs.
About one-third migrated northward, with the rest traveling
south to create the shadows—or “survivor states” for the optimistic-
of Netheril; Anauria, Asram, and Hlondath.
EcThelion Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 02:11:48
quote:
After all, look at what happened to Mystryl when she didn't forbidden spells over the 9th level.

What happened to her?
Edain Shadowstar Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 21:25:11
Sage, while I can see how that spell could be abused, i think fi ti is the DM needs to read the spell again. It works a lot like a Wish spell, in that the player has only finite control over what they create. Say a play wants to create a "magic sward", a magic sword that magically sings could be the DM choice in weapon, since the player has no control over the magical properties. While adding a Rule Zero addition could be useful to dissuage players, I can see a player who tries to abuse the spell very easily being put in their place.
Shadowlord Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 20:45:47
quote:
Originally posted by Roewyn

Thanks again Shadowlord, you certainly clarified me.



No problem, Roewyn. Drow, Faerie Elves, Netheril, the Underdark, and Deities are my specialties, should you require anything else.
The Sage Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 06:18:47
Actually discussions of this nature always bring to mind the many issues I (and many other gamers) had with the 2e 4th level Priest spell 'Addition'. This was an extremely overpowered spell, especially for the level at which it was located.

I'm not saying that such a spell should be considered Epic in today's 3e ranking of spell power, but I would have considered most of the abilities that this spell made available would put it into the 8th, 9th, or even beyond level of power.

In my opinion, to maintain this spell at 4th level would require a number of specific restrictions, the first being a sentence or two on the exclusion of the possible creation of low-level magical items.
Edain Shadowstar Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 04:00:26
Yes, thank you Sage (FYI I finally dug up the Tome of Magic). The mage spells probably are True Dweomers or something of that sort, i.e. really powerful spells detailed in the Dungeons Masters Option - High level Campaigns, or at least something liek that. There were some exceptions to the 10th level ban, but not many. Although I should note, 11th and 12th level magic is completely forbidden.
The Sage Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 01:43:21
Just a follow-up from Edain's Q&A...

Priestly 'Quest' spells are indeed fully detailed (along with rules and usage in the campaign) in the 2e Tome of Magic.


Edain Shadowstar Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 00:56:28
Humans never created mythals; during the time of Netheril the humans employed something called a mythallar, what is essentially a magical battery, that draws in magic from around them intot he mythallar to power the Netherese enclaves' powerful enchantments, such as the flying magic they used to stay aloft.
Roewyn Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 00:36:15
Are only elves able to create mythals?
I know it is my ignorance but besides Elminister I never heardd of any human mythal creater after netheril
Edain Shadowstar Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 19:11:42
A little Q&A:

quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101:

I recently re-installed BG2 and ToB and there is a 10th level spell called "Comet". Shouldn't a comet spell be banned from Faerun like the other ones you mentioned since flaming rocks from space aren't exactly good for you? Or is it because it's a video game and they just let you have powerful spells?
More or less. I my memory serves, they are technicaly quest spells, or at least the priestly ones, which is something from, I think, Tome of Magic? I am not quite sure, its been a long time. Also, certain people were allowed to cast 10th level magic after Mystra Ban, that is the Elves and the Chosen, respectively. Next:

quote:
Originally posted by Roewyn:

If higher level spells are forbidden how can mythals be created?
Well, firstly, all mythals, save one, were crafted using a brand of magic that defies the laws of magic in many ways. Its called Elven High Magic, and it has been proven not something to be triffled with. Essentially, though technically the Ritual of the Myriad, used to craft mythals, is incredibly powerful Mystra does not ban it. This is mainly because she has, in the past, shown she trusts Elves not to abuse the Weave, as much, hence why she allowed them to continue casting tenth level magic. In case you were wondering about the Ritual of the Myriad, here it is:

quote:
Originally from Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves:

High Magic Mythals

The Old Ways are, of course, the best and most proper way to create mythals. Kept secret for so long, mythals themselves have become legends even among the elves of Cormanthyr, though there are at least seven secretive High Mages among all the spellcasters of the Coronal's realm who know the secrets of how to construct a High Magic mythal. Only three of them live and serve within the capital.

A Ritual of Myriad slowly links the casters of the ritual (a central quartet and a circle of nine assistants). The eldest High Mage acts as the focus of the ritual (known as the Grand Caster); he is surrounded by a circle of three Major Casters. While the Grand Caster builds the central energy sphere from which the mythal grows, the three Major Casters help shape the mythal in height, breadth, and depth. The Grand Caster sets one grand power of the mythal, which often matches the purpose for the mythal#146;s formation; he also sets one major and one minor power. The three Major Casters each grant a major and minor power to the mythal as well.

Surrounding this foursome is a concentric circle of nine spellcasters; since at least three more High Mages are required for the working, this third ring of nine people often consists of those three High Mages with six high-level wizards or High Mage initiates (if not full High Mages). Only the central four High Mages are actually casting the mythal; the outer nine are secondary casters adding powers to the mythal and energy to the link between all casters. Each of the secondary casters can add up to two minor powers each to the mythal.

If a mythal is expected to cloak a very large area, the needs for energy with which to expand the mythal are great; in these cases, additional folks are drawn into the link and ritual for that very purpose. Encircling the third ring might be a
fourth ring of 27 elves, followed (as needed) by a fifth ring of 81 elves. Elves of the fourth and fifth rings need not be spellcasters, for they are simply providing energy for the spellcasters to weave into the mythal. They cannot add any powers to the mythal, though any beings involved in this ritual feel a blissful rapture while in the communal link.

Roewyn Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 09:17:11
Thanks again Shadowlord, you certainly clarified me.
DDH_101 Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 05:53:17
Hmm...interesting. Anyways, I recently re-installed BG2 and ToB and there is a 10th level spell called "Comet". Shouldn't a comet spell be banned from Faerun like the other ones you mentioned since flaming rocks from space aren't exactly good for you? Lol. Or is it because it's a video game and they just let you have powerful spells?
Shadowlord Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 04:20:56
These spells are what could be considered epic, though they wouldn't work in the present realms, what with the sundering of the Weave and all. They are 10th, 11th, and 12th level spells which, if mages had access to today, could jeopardize the safety of all Toril!
DDH_101 Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 04:16:17
Thanks for the info, Shadowlord. BTW, are those epic spells or are they just really powerful?
Shadowlord Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 03:46:19
No problem Roewyn. As for the Nether Scrolls-

This set of 50 scrolls was the foundation for magic use by the
Netherese, perhaps by all of the sentient races that developed
on Faerûn. Some races, like the elves, brought their own magic
with them when they migrated to Toril‚ and it’s doubtful that
their style of magic use was influenced much by the nether
scrolls. But for the Netherese, their ability to use magic and the
wisdom contained within the nether scrolls were forever
entwined. It’s unknown who created the nether scrolls. Some believed that they were gifts left by the Creator Races to the humans of Toril. Others believe that they were a gift from Mystryl, the goddess of magic. Other beliefs hold that the nether scrolls are of unworldly origin, perhaps from the outer planes or from some
crystal sphere beyond Realmspace. What was known about the nether scrolls was that they appeared as sheets of gold and platinum. They were covered with magical runes and sigils that shimmered upon their surface. Anyone who saw them immediately knew that they contained
magical power and wisdom. The small size of each scroll belied its content: Magic weaved its way across the surface, turning a quick-reading page of text into a tome that would take months to finish. In addition, there never seemed to be an end to the amount of information contained on a single scroll. As one developed in the
mystical arts and re-read the scrolls, new passages and spells
appeared. The nether scrolls were immune to all magical effects,
including disintegration spells and other harmful magic. They
could be hammered into an unrecognizable mass, however, as
was demonstrated a few times in Netheril’s long history.
Eventually, the magic of the nether scrolls would recombine
lost pieces of itself, but the time required for such a rebirth was
long (it’s unknown if it has reformed currently, but the Netherese never saw the scrolls reform themselves). The nether scrolls were unlike normal scrolls in that their magic wasn’t just sitting there to be read like a normal scroll.Instead, they were to be studied and pored over, the reader searching for new pieces of magical lore. They were unable to be duplicated by any means, and the Netherese kept them as safe as they could until finally losing the last scroll.
The scrolls appeared to be divided into five sections of 10
scrolls each. Just like the scrolls themselves, however, this five part organization could have disappeared after enough study.

Arcanus Fundare
These first scrolls provided the basics of spellcasting, including
the use of cantras, spell components, and the various magical
schools (such as alteration and invocation, among many others).
These schools were the very foundation on which magic use was
built, though the Netherese chose to combine them into three categories
(Inventive, Mentalism, and Variation).

Magicus Creare
These scrolls detailed the creation of magical items yet hinted at
a wide range of possibilities beyond the basic construction of
such items. Magical items that became a part of the creator were
hinted at, as was the creation of sentient magical items for specific
purposes. Most of the scrolls were stolen or destroyed
before much work could be done in this area, however.

Maior Creare
The Creation Scrolls, as arcanists quickly referred to them,
detailed the process of creating magical constructs, such as
golems. More than that, they also taught the elements of creating
living wards (artificial items designed to augment an arcanist—
weak example would be something akin to eyes of minute seeing)
and sentient wards (items that actually thought for themselves and
had the ability to perform actions, such as an extra hand that
would activate a staff to protect itself). Finally, these scrolls detailed the properties of antimagic as projected by creatures like beholders. It also discussed ways to both create and destroy dead-magic areas.

Planus Mechanicus
Not only did these scrolls detail planar mechanics, explaining
how the different planes of existence were related to one another
and how magic worked in each plane, they also detailed the
process by which to create pocket planes. These scrolls were the
ones that the archmage Shadow (now known as Telamont Tanthul) studied over the course of his life, and he was the foremost expert on planes in all of Netheril.

Ars Factum
This final set of the nether scrolls provided the foundation for the
actual creation of artifacts from scratch. It was the most difficult
to fathom and required extensive knowledge of all other nether
scrolls before one could unlock its power. A few arcanists tried
anyway, however, and ended up creating the Crown of Horns and
the Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings.

Well, this is all I know of the Nether Scrolls. I hope this helped you, as it took me forever to compile.... Should you require anything else, do not hesitate to ask.

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