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T O P I C    R E V I E W
WarlockII Posted - 15 Jan 2010 : 22:47:20
So, Timetraveling is imposibly complicated, the butterfly effect simply has far too much effect, and I'll need to make a diffinitive decision on determinism or free-will.

That's not too appealing as a GM.

But, there are several Temples of Time out there somewhere, dedicated to amaunator. So I very much would like to know where they are exactly and any history they have. Information on this is hard to come by for some reason.


25   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Ayrik Posted - 28 Feb 2011 : 08:47:10
Time could be governed by Ao, far too important (or the consequences too dire) to allow some underling within his quibbling pantheon to mishandle it.

This question has actually come up in my gaming so I allocated the "portfolio" of Time to the Night Serpent, Dendar.

My logic is that Dendar exists to consume the world/cosmos at the end of time, and her hunger compels her to hasten timeflow as much as possible. Yet she is also compelled (by the laws of the aptly-named Fugue) to follow the decrees of Ao and Jergal/Myrkul/Cyric/Kelemvor (whose interests do not include immediate destruction of the world) and she is thus prohibited from allowing the flow of time to be changed or interrupted in the Realms. She sustains herself and grows stronger by abusing a technicality which allows her to manipulate timeflow freely in dreams and nightmares (they are "outside" the Realms).

Various Faerūnian deities (or powerful demons, devils, hags) sometimes manage to bribe Dendar with terrified soul candy to gain her temporal manipulations (within the "detectable" maximum limits imposed on her power). Thus far (in my campaign) this has included Dendar exercising her powers to "stretch time thin" where it surrounded a critical Realms-spanning fulcrum event, making it more easily influenced - forever - by external forces (like my villain and PCs). Likewise, Dendar could probably make time "thicker" around certain events, so they'd be incredibly resilient to any attempts to change them. She can also make time flow at slightly differing rates in different regions, provided the "balance" remains constant; this might sometimes make unavoidably "fated" events happen in different sequences with possibly very different outcomes (imagine one nation's mighty army taking "longer" to reach the battlefield).

Fortunately, Dendar is tremendously lazy and gluttonous, and she spends most of her time sleeping.

It is also assumed that Dendar can have some influence on temporal divinations: meaning she can "reorder" distant past and future events so they become somewhat distorted or obscured with what she wants (or doesn't want) to be seen; this has served as a possible reason why nobody sees the deaths of the goddess of magic, etc. (Some very, very few exceptional prophets and diviners can divine the ultimate truth behind Dendar's deceptions; though they never emerge with their sanity fully intact after experiencing the many-layered nightmares Dendar uses to protect her secrets. Thus we have mad prophets and seers like Augathra, Cyric, and perhaps even Alaundo; Halaster, Laeral, and Elminster, too, may have been mentally imbalanced partly through their accumulated exposure to Dendar's foul essence.)

None of this is canon.
Alisttair Posted - 25 Feb 2011 : 14:31:59
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12

I've always thought that history and fate could be changed through time travel. From DnD, maybe not Forgotten Realms..let's say, Dragonlance..Raistlin changed his identity, erased the identity of a powerful archmage, changed the world, became an exarch, became a god, did not become a god, ruled the world, and died through time travel.



You could tie it in to different realities (some of which can be caused by a change in the time stream thus going a different route) - which are effectively different DMs own home FR campaigns as well.
creyzi4zb12 Posted - 25 Feb 2011 : 13:36:08
I've always thought that history and fate could be changed through time travel. From DnD, maybe not Forgotten Realms..let's say, Dragonlance..Raistlin changed his identity, erased the identity of a powerful archmage, changed the world, became an exarch, became a god, did not become a god, ruled the world, and died through time travel.
Alisttair Posted - 25 Feb 2011 : 11:48:15
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12

quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

If it is free then Karsus could snatch it as is his right upon his return


He did cast time travel..In Netheril Trilogy there were two wizards I knew of who casted Time Travel, Karsus and Candlemas. And according to Candlemas, Karsus was able to cast time travel as if he was reading the alphabet.
Actually, Candlemas advise to Karsus in defeating the Phaerrim was time travel, unfortunately Karsus thought: Karsus Avatar > Time Travel....so there, Karsus got what he deserved for being too arrogant.



Unless he fooled everyone into believing that, and that in actuality he DID use time travel first to set up his return because he knew the fall of Netheril was inevitable so he had to continue in that time-stream.
creyzi4zb12 Posted - 24 Feb 2011 : 18:06:06
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

If it is free then Karsus could snatch it as is his right upon his return


He did cast time travel..In Netheril Trilogy there were two wizards I knew of who casted Time Travel, Karsus and Candlemas. And according to Candlemas, Karsus was able to cast time travel as if he was reading the alphabet.
Actually, Candlemas advise to Karsus in defeating the Phaerrim was time travel, unfortunately Karsus thought: Karsus Avatar > Time Travel....so there, Karsus got what he deserved for being too arrogant.
Sill Alias Posted - 08 May 2010 : 07:35:22
I see as more fitting candidate Kelemvor, with his discipline and law abiding (too bad Helm died). But he is relatively young.
Alisttair Posted - 07 May 2010 : 12:58:27
If it is free then Karsus could snatch it as is his right upon his return
The Sage Posted - 07 May 2010 : 01:12:34
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I think the reason it's not listed for anyone is that it's just not something notable enough to pay attention to.

I'm still content to believe much of what Eric and I discussed about the Time portfolio back in '06. That the Time portfolio remained free largely because, at the time [pun intended, I suppose], it wasn't feasible to be definitive about it, as some future project [nothing proposed at that point in '06] might have called for it. [Or, in other words, maybe Eric wanted to leave room for further development.]
Wooly Rupert Posted - 07 May 2010 : 00:40:25
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

My fellow scribes, would you agree that somewhere within Karse would be an excellent location to put a Time Portal leading to the year of the Fall of Netheril?? I also believe that there is no deity of Time because that portfolio remained with Karsus (which will return along with him .



The portfolio couldn't have remained with him. When he died, it was free to a good home -- just like magic. When Mystra was born, she grabbed magic, and it's only logical to assume she grabbed it back.

I think the reason it's not listed for anyone is that it's just not something notable enough to pay attention to.
Alisttair Posted - 06 May 2010 : 15:13:06
My fellow scribes, would you agree that somewhere within Karse would be an excellent location to put a Time Portal leading to the year of the Fall of Netheril?? I also believe that there is no deity of Time because that portfolio remained with Karsus (which will return along with him .
Ashe Ravenheart Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 19:10:48
Just posted this on another thread:

From the Chronomancy web enhancement (available here):
quote:
Toril has many powerful forces devoted to keeping its history intact. Elminster, Khelben Arunsun, the Seven Sisters, and many other powerful wizards have been granted certain undefined powers from Mystra, goddess of magic, to prevent all chronomantic spells from working in their vicinities. Supernatural or priestly agents of Deneir and Oghma (Toril's gods of history, so to speak) are believed able to follow a chronomancer's trail and undo any damage he has done. Finally, a chronomancer who seriously disrupts history is likely to encounter an avatar of the most directly concerned deity, a meeting which will likely result in the abrupt termination of that chronomancer's life.
Other than this, chronomancers are known to make limited, low-key trips through time in Faerun, Kara-Tur, Zakhara, and Maztica. Native chronomancers are usually devout followers of both a deity of magic (e.g., Mystra) and a deity of time or history (e.g., Deneir or Oghma), serving as historians and information collectors. Elven chronomancers of Labelas Enoreth are possible. Shou Lung, in Kara-Tur, might have a secret, officially approved group of chronomancers, probably Historians, working for the Emperor. Ancient empires such as Netheril, Raurin, Narfell, Raumathar, and Cormanthyr might have known of chronomancy or time travel, though this did not prevent their fall; these empires can be reached only through vortices or by using powerful magical devices or artifacts. Most wizards here refer to Temporal Prime as the Plane or Demiplane of Time.
Aside from human, half-elven, and elven chronomancers, rumors pass that a few hare and crane hengeyokai from Shou Lung have gained chronomancer abilities of up to the 9th level of ability. Their time travels seem motivated solely for either escaping current troubles (for hare hengeyokai) or official historical studies (for crane hengeyokai).
Possible psionic time travelers from Toril could include couatl, shedu, and titans, as well as humans and demihumans.
Milith holder of HB8 Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 19:07:11
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson

Now that Mystra is dead, and Amaunator is back, it could be that Amaunator now claims the portfolio of Time. There would be no one around to contradict him if he chose to. As the god of days, he could certainly make a case for control of Time, as the primary regulator and measure by which time is counted and its passage marked.

Although, on second thought, Selūne could perhaps make a contending claim to the Time portfolio, as people also mark time by the moon. Selūne was Mystryl's mother and as such might have reclaimed some of her portfolios and duties upon Mystra's death.



While true, I think Amaunator probably has a stronger claim to it, as Netheril: Empire of Magic explains:

Since they are time travelers,
Mystryl is willing to provide spells to them (since
time travelers are technically part of her portfolio).
Amaunator would be another likely candidate, since he
technically has control of time as well.


That would see to imply to me that Amaunator would be the successful heir to the power instead of Selune. I also believe the 4e FR guid indicates him to be the 'Keeper of Time', not that it really seems all that important as far as worshipers go. It's also worth noting that if we were to consider who'd be the best canidate, it would probably be the guy with strict rules and regulations, one known for his strict sense of being on time.

EDIT: Time travel, at least during the Mystra/Midnight age, is strictly controlled by the goddess of magic in the sense that the characters cannot alter time. In fact, the spell used to go back in time specifically forbids it and doesn't allow characters to bring any sort of item that didn't exist in the past with them. In addition, they can only visit one year one time. From beginning to end. No going back.
WarlockII Posted - 27 Jan 2010 : 17:10:11
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

I see the uncertainty of who holds dominion over time as an excellent opportunity for any DM to put his own spin on it - which can lead to a great epic campaign arc, where the PCs visit the Fall of Netheril, the Time of Troubles and the Spellplague, among other events. Simply flipping through the Grand History of the Realms will allow you to find any point in time worth visiting.



oh I know that very well. But as everyone knows, players will mess things up, and may very well need all 4 time gates during the campaign.

and yes I think they just may somehow blow the vulcano gate up :P. Besides for the netheril time, the gate at the spine of the world seems to be their handywork.
Alisttair Posted - 26 Jan 2010 : 18:03:32
I see the uncertainty of who holds dominion over time as an excellent opportunity for any DM to put his own spin on it - which can lead to a great epic campaign arc, where the PCs visit the Fall of Netheril, the Time of Troubles and the Spellplague, among other events. Simply flipping through the Grand History of the Realms will allow you to find any point in time worth visiting.
WarlockII Posted - 26 Jan 2010 : 08:40:49
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson

I forgot about this series of web articles from the Wizards website:
Perilous Gateways
Portals in Time http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030402x
Part 1 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030402b
Part 2 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b
Part 3 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030416b
Umberlee's Fist http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030423b
Mishap-Prone Portal http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030430b




thanks a lot, this is exactly what I was looking for. Some good information about the gates, or 1 gate :P. Very much appriciated :)

Found the island, and more or less exact location :)

But, there is still a matter of the 2 other time gates. Since there apperantly isn't very much information out there if any at all, I'm open to guessing.

Does anyone have a decent guess towards a more exact location to these 2 gates?:

There is one somewhere in Novularond (north? east? west? south?)
There is one somewhere in the spine of the world There is one (north? east? west? south?)
Gray Richardson Posted - 22 Jan 2010 : 05:10:16
I forgot about this series of web articles from the Wizards website:
Perilous Gateways
Portals in Time http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030402x
Part 1 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030402b
Part 2 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b
Part 3 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030416b
Umberlee's Fist http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030423b
Mishap-Prone Portal http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030430b
Joran Nobleheart Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 12:24:19
Thank you, Sage. I really just couldn't remember as it's been so long since I last read Cormanthyr. Reading this makes me want to get it back out and read it again. Ah, the wonders of classic Forgotten Realms books and the memories we have from them.
The Sage Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 08:02:00
quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart

This may have already been covered, but I think I remember there being a temporal gate mentioned in the beginning of Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves.
There's a few paragraphs re: time gates on pg. 6. But they're largely only brief paragraphs describing the five gates for use in time-travelling campaigns using the material in Cormanthyr.
Joran Nobleheart Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 07:06:40
This may have already been covered, but I think I remember there being a temporal gate mentioned in the beginning of Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves. Sadly, my books are away from me right now and I can't remember any of the information that the book gives. I do seem to recall a dragon being the guardian of it, or making a lair in the cave where it is, though. I hope that helps some if my memory is recalling this properly. Best of luck in your game!
The Sage Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 05:56:06
No, as they've not received any detailed treatment in the Realmslore.
WarlockII Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 05:38:58
so, I take it the lack of answers to my primary question means.... Noone really knows where those time gates really are?
The Sage Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 00:16:42
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson

Now that Mystra is dead, and Amaunator is back, it could be that Amaunator now claims the portfolio of Time. There would be no one around to contradict him if he chose to. As the god of days, he could certainly make a case for control of Time, as the primary regulator and measure by which time is counted and its passage marked.
Interestingly, as I've speculated in the past, perhaps the Time porfolio fell into the hands of Jergal in the pre-Spellplague Realms. After his demotion to "Exarch" status though, in the 4e Realms, perhaps the Time portfolio once again came up for grabs.

I'm not sure about Amaunator claiming it though. Considering his now "ancient" mistake that led him to assume he held the portfolio in the first place, I think it's the kind of "divine jest" he'd be unable to fully live down.
Victor_ograygor Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 22:12:19
This would be really great and I would hope he went back in time and erased 4 edition :O) LOl......... :O)
Gray Richardson Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 22:05:26
Now that Mystra is dead, and Amaunator is back, it could be that Amaunator now claims the portfolio of Time. There would be no one around to contradict him if he chose to. As the god of days, he could certainly make a case for control of Time, as the primary regulator and measure by which time is counted and its passage marked.

Although, on second thought, Selūne could perhaps make a contending claim to the Time portfolio, as people also mark time by the moon. Selūne was Mystryl's mother and as such might have reclaimed some of her portfolios and duties upon Mystra's death.
The Sage Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 14:09:10
quote:
Originally posted by WarlockII

I don't follow... =p
Demihuman Deities says:- "Likewise, a long forgotten-aspect of Labelas, known as Chronos, Karonis, or Kronus, was worshipped centuries ago in the tiny realm of Orva, now sunk beneath the waters of the Vast Swamp of eastern Cormyr."

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